My Little Pony XXXIX: There is no Pegasus Mafia!

[otakuryoga]

Dragon Quest, on dragons

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A thougth occured to me. It seems like all the dragons we have seen so far are male. Maybe there is a reason for that. Perhaps all female dragons live in one place and the great dragon migration is really all about male dragons setting out to mate. That's why there weren't any very young dragons aside from Spike in the migration, that we saw at least. This could explain why these dragons didn't recognize Spike as one (unless they were just having fun with him, which is quite likely), maybe they had never seen a lot of baby dragons because baby dragons live with the females until they grow up and go off into the world.

It could also explain their generally bad behaviour. They're basically a bunch of men and adolescent boys out from under the "watchful eye" of the women

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one of the teens did ask him if he made the migration riding his mothers back. and there were enough body types(especially among the teens themselves) that i dont think we can determine sex that way like with ponies

New episode initial reactions:

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Bwahaha! Awesome! And hilariously funny!

/snip

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somehow i knew we would get a "liked this episode" response from you....

[Aotrs Commander]

somehow i knew we would get a "liked this episode" response from you....

Was kinda obvious, given the subject matter, wasn't it?

[Pokonic]

New episode initial reactions:

General praise, as expected...

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Those dragons are not only jerks, but flat-out Evil. Casual murder of sentient children? Wow. That's pretty dark even by my standards... Even if one ascribes phoenixes to that sort of semi-animal level that Pokemon seem to be dipicted as, that's still... surprisingly dark.

One has to wonder what that letter from Princess C was.

And also what the dragons were migrating for, and by heck, for a rare an unusal creature, wow were there a lot of them. One assumes that was like the global population. Council of dragons, maybe? While the youngsters play, the elder dragons discuss state affairs or something? Were they are females there at all? Were those the only young dragons there?

This also would seem to indicate that dragons do not have a nation as such, as many fanfics have them, but live more like traditional dragons, mostly solitary. And this goes with something I've said before - Spike likely won't grow up to be like other dragons, won't grow old to become some sort of lesser, wild mostly instinct-driven creature like the other older dragons we've seen, because he's been raised by ponies (and so long as he keeps a lid on his Greed Growth). Spike is very much a social creature, and that makes to sad, old Spike stories jsut more unecessarily bleak.

Woo boy, plenty of nice points here.

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1. Even worse, the only other phoenix we have seen was inteligent to the point of understanding trickery and could gain pleasure from it. Heck, she could feel shame. Smashing there eggs would be clearly evil, no argument.

2. "Dear Spike, I would like to remind you that the GDM is for dragons who already have grown there wings, not for young, upstanding dragons such as yourself. You can join in next time, but for now stay with your friends this one time."

3. Well, yes, a migration generaly implies a world-wide surge of a species in a single event. Going from the fanon idea that dragons actualy have varied "tribes", the fact that all the adults from the show so far have the same general shape makes more sence. Hence, it's a gigantic gathering of male dragons from every part of the world, from the bulky ones from the south to the bottom-heavy equestrian varity to the lanky long-horned buggers from the north, ect.

Also, it makes sence for such long-lived creatures to gather to a spot once a century to abandon the regular territory instinct, forget about the whole "kill everything in sight" rule, and try to exchange news and information with others while the ones who are just starting to fly are getting familer with there generation, for the sake of trying to form positve bonds between them. Also, going by Dragonshys mention of "100 year naps" it seems that all the adults are waking up and are meeting together to see how the other adults fared for the last two centuries.

4. Hey, I would like to make a case for Spikes greed-growth. You know how the teens, while utter jerks, where not trying to kill eachother in a frenzy of growth and such for that pile of gems? (This part is for Lix)My guess is that, like pony babys, baby dragons have little control of there inherent magical abilitys. Hence, spikes growth was just a natural dragon thing that was inhanced wayyyyy over the normal limit, and as such his brain kind of fried out and started acting rather brutish. Normal dragons would normaly just get slighty bulkier, but Spike got bloody huge.

Also, yeah, he is not going to turn out like the arse from Owls Well. First and formost, he has a family that will not try to eat him. Second, thanks to his natural "dragonish thoughts" not being part of his bringing-up, he is going to turn out to be a very sociable wrym as he grows older. Celesita is not just letting Twilight mearly bring up another creature: she is letting her bring up what will eventualy be a few generations down the line a very powerful creature that could shape ponies lives with a single snort.

[Aotrs Commander]

Woo boy, plenty of nice points here.

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1. Even worse, the only other phoenix we have seen was inteligent to the point of understanding trickery and could gain pleasure from it. Heck, she could feel shame. Smashing there eggs would be clearly evil, no argument.

2. "Dear Spike, I would like to remind you that the GDM is for dragons who already have grown there wings, not for young, upstanding dragons such as yourself. You can join in next time, but for now stay with your friends this one time."

3. Well, yes, a migration generaly implies a world-wide surge of a species in a single event. Going from the idea that dragons actualy have varied species, the fact that all the adults from the show so far have the same general shape makes more sence. Hence, it's a gigantic gathering of male dragons from every part of the world, from the bulky breeds from the south to the bottom-heavy equestrian varity to the lanky long-horned buggers from the north, ect.

Also, it makes sence for such long-lived creatures to gather to a spot once a century to abandon the regular territory instinct, forget about the whole "kill everything in sight" rule, and try to exchange news and information with others while the ones who are just starting to fly are getting familer with there generation, for the sake of trying to form positve bonds between them. Also, going by Dragonshys mention of "100 year naps" it seems that all the adults are waking up and are meeting together to see how the other adults fared for the last two centuries.

4. Hey, I would like to make a case for Spikes greed-growth. You know how the teens, while utter jerks, where not trying to kill eachother in a frenzy of growth and such for that pile of gems? My guess is that, like pony babys, baby dragons have little control of there inherent magical abilitys. Hence, spikes growth was just a natural dragon thing that was inhanced wayyyyy over the normal limit, and as such his brain kind of fried out and started acting rather brutish. Normal dragons would normaly just get slighty bulkier, but Spike got bloody huge.

Also, yeah, he is not going to turn out like the arse from Owls Well. First and formost, he has a family that will not try to eat him. Second, thanks to his natural "dragonish thoughts" not being part of his bringing-up, he is going to turn out to be a very sociable wrym as he grows older. Celesita is not just letting Twilight mearly bring up another creature: she is letting her bring up what will eventualy be a few generations down the line a very powerful creature that could shape ponies lives with a single snort.

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Dragons in general seem to have rather a lack of regard for other creature's lives don't they? That one in Dragonshy was arguably the nicest, since he didn't actually try and murder anypony in cold blood...!

(Actually, if you think about it, the hydra was pretty Evil too, since that had enough intelligence to laugh at (one of it's own head's) pain, and that was cheerfully trying to eat Twilight and co... However, that might merely be the level of "animal" intelligence in Equestria (i.e. same level as Angel or Opal).)

I think comparing the phoenixes to Pokemon seems about right, actually; treated as more than animals, but not quite as full members of society; at least as slightly unequal partners (almost like children in some regards.) Smashing their eggs is very definitely unquestionably an act of Evil. Especially for no other reason that casual kicks and giggles.

Which makes those fratboy dragons arguably on the same level as Discord (maybe worse, depending on how harshly you view him) on the Evil scale, and therefore among the most evil dudes we've seen on the show, period. The hydra and co might get a "pass" for being "animal" intelligence - but those guys certainly don't. Whether or not they are aware for how horrid what they are doing is, is immaterial - given that the implication is this isn't the first time they've pulled this!

So, perhaps we're seen the first canon serial killers in a My Little Pony show! Y'know, for kids!

(Because a lot of kids will make the connection; I noticed that kind of thing even at a young age...)

[otakuryoga]

on spikes egg and todays episode

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since we saw him and twilight researching every book in the library and finding zip
i hope they dont just forget about this...maybe come back to it later date with a mention of the princess looking into it after getting a letter and setting someone to find out the tale of his egg

[mikeejimbo]

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Until we found out that the egg was for smashing (for no apparent reason), I have to admit I felt that the raid was morally ambiguous. Even though dragons eat gems, we've seen Spike eat other things, and besides, phoenix eggs might have gem-like qualities. So I got to thinking, that's not really anything worse than what normally happens in the animal kingdom. There are plenty of animals that eat eggs from the nests of others for their livelihood. Why do we give them a pass because they're not sentient? If they were sentient, but still ovivores, it would just be instinct for them.

Now, it's clear that the eggs were not for eating, and I liked how Spike made the right decision in the end. However, I'm still not willing to paint the dragons as Evil quite yet. Phoenixes might be the dragons' natural enemies. They might compete for food or territory, and again, I don't think it's any worse than what happens in nature. (And also again, it's not as though sentience overrides all instinct.)

Just idle thoughts.

[Pokonic]

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Dragons in general seem to have rather a lack of regard for other creature's lives don't they? That one in Dragonshy was arguably the nicest, since he didn't actually try and murder anypony in cold blood...!

(Actually, if you think about it, the hydra was pretty Evil too, since that had enough intelligence to laugh at (one of it's own head's) pain, and that was cheerfully trying to eat Twilight and co... However, that might merely be the level of "animal" intelligence in Equestria (i.e. same level as Angel or Opal).)

I think comparing the phoenixes to Pokemon seems about right, actually; treated as more than animals, but not quite as full members of society; at least as slightly unequal partners (almost like children in some regards.) Smashing their eggs is very definitely unquestionably an act of Evil. Especially for no other reason that casual kicks and giggles.

Which makes those fratboy dragons arguably on the same level as Discord (maybe worse, depending on how harshly you view him) on the Evil scale, and therefore among the most evil dudes we've seen on the show, period. The hydra and co might get a "pass" for being "animal" intelligence - but those guys certainly don't. Whether or not they are aware for how horrid what they are doing is, is immaterial - given that the implication is this isn't the first time they've pulled this!

So, perhaps we're seen the first canon serial killers in a My Little Pony show! Y'know, for kids!

(Because a lot of kids will make the connection; I noticed that kind of thing even at a young age...)

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1. Yeah, he was actualy decent as far as "antagonists" go. I mean, if someone woke me up from what is supposed to be a nice, long nap, you would be a mite cranky! The one from the Everfree, even, could be excused for having to be paranoid to even live in the place. This is a area with a plant that could turn your scales the consistancy of jello and with lion-scorpian hybrids that could easly rip off a few scales or two, not even factoring in the stinger. Heck, for all we know, going from Dragonkinds general ignorance of there own young, he might have thought that spike was a Baslisk or something.

2. Yeah, causal murder is kind of expected from teens in horror movies, not in a childs cartoon. If dragons grow up with such arses, no wonder they eventualy turn out into child-murderers.

[Weimann]

S2E21

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Can I get an amen, brothers? After the rather average fare the last episodes have served me, I really felt this one. As always, I tend to actually like the secondary characters more than the ones it's actually about, and I must be honest: Rarity gives even Pinkie Pie a run for her money as best backup pony. Not only do they get her relationship with Spike just right (she really likes him, but not that way; or at least, she can't let it become that way, because how would that look?), but the "I'm more into fashion" scene had me in literal stitches. The voice acting there was some of the best in the series yet, I swear.

That isn't to say Rarity stole the show, because I don't believe she did, even if Spikes part could have been better. While I'd had hoped that we'd get some more world-building in terms of dragon society and culture rather than your common teen jerks proof of manhood ritual thing but with dragons, the ending was strong if predictable. Spike held his own in this episode, and I hope we'll be seeing Peewee again (on the note of continuity, Fluttershy's outburst in the beginning could be seen as continuity from Put Your Hoof Down, but I'm not sure it is; she's not being assertive, she's panicking, which she has done before).

In conclusion, dragons and phoenixes, hell yeah. Spike's a bro.

Edit: But still, it's notable that the Spike really didn't learn much about dragons in general, just that his heart had its home in Ponyville. Which wasn't really the mission he set out for, was it? He already knew that, it wasn't like he wasn't going to come back. In terms of learning about dragons in general, he really only got a very small and biased data set.

[legomaster00156]

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Hey, out of curiousity, if dragons dive into lava, why in the world are they intimidated by pheonix flames?

[Mewtarthio]

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1. Yeah, he was actualy decent as far as "antagonists" go. I mean, if someone woke me up from what is supposed to be a nice, long nap, you would be a mite cranky! The one from the Everfree, even, could be excused for having to be paranoid to even live in the place. This is a area with a plant that could turn your scales the consistancy of jello and with lion-scorpian hybrids that could easly rip off a few scales or two, not even factoring in the stinger. Heck, for all we know, going from Dragonkinds general ignorance of there own young, he might have thought that spike was a Baslisk or something.

S2E21:

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Paranoia isn't really necessary, since we know that Spike could potentially hit a Greed Growth spurt. The Everfree dragon might have severely outclassed Spike, but the baby dragon could have transformed into a serious threat behind his back. Of course, he still could have just driven Spike off rather than repeatedly attack with intent to kill, so he's not entirely justified in his behavior.

Also, does the "Butterfly Migration" mean that Flutterdash is now canon?

[Pokonic]

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Hey, out of curiousity, if dragons dive into lava, why in the world are they intimidated by pheonix flames?

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Seems that magical fire hurts. Spike is scared of any other dragons flame, for instance.

[Thanqol]

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Excellence. Every moment spent in the Crackle disguise was just flawless. Rainbow Dash maintains best dragon status.

Dragon Quest, on birds

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The female phoenix (at least the most feminine-looking one to me) looks more like Philomena than the male phoenix. Was Philomena's gender ever identified? I always assumed it was male, but now I'm not sure.

Celestia did refer to Philomena as 'she'.

Dragon Quest, on music

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Just wanted to say I loved the raw background music in this one.

Oh yes, memories of Gilda.

okay, seriously, the best thing in this Episode?:

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Crackle the dragon. Second! Best! Dragon! Evar!

seriously he's about to replace Trogdor in my heart as best dragon.

This forever.

New episode initial reactions:

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Also stupid. Hey, dragon fratboy fraktards, that "sissy" Princess could kick your sorry arses all the way to the moon and back, probably literally. Rasing the freaking SUN mean anything to you? No? Oh, they totally need their arses kicking. (It totally would have been hilarious if they found out ponies have superpowers when Twi, Rarity and RD kicked their asses, because make no mistake, the ponies would have won that scuffle hooves down!)

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You sure? Because elder dragons can be assumed to have life expectancies well beyond a thousand years if they're prepared to just bunk up and sleep for hundreds at a time. The sun is probably a recent innovation for them as a culture. There'd be plenty of dragons around who were alive when it was forged. Moreover, they eat gemstones and live in caves, they don't need photosynthesis and plant matter, the sun could go out and it wouldn't affect their society in the slightest.

And I take a more conservative view of Celestia's power; while she could totally defeat a full grown dragon or two there's no way she could take on a dozen or more. If she had that kind of power she could have solo'd Discord without need for the Elements.

Dragons are pretty invincible. That's kinda their concept.

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Also, does the "Butterfly Migration" mean that Flutterdash is now canon?

Yes and forever.

[Ravian]

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Now, it's clear that the eggs were not for eating, and I liked how Spike made the right decision in the end. However, I'm still not willing to paint the dragons as Evil quite yet. Phoenixes might be the dragons' natural enemies. They might compete for food or territory, and again, I don't think it's any worse than what happens in nature. (And also again, it's not as though sentience overrides all instinct.)

Just idle thoughts.

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Actually in alot of mythology I've read this may be the case, accordingly the Phoenix is a natural enemy to serpents (this was also used by JK Rowling with Fawkes against the basilisk) and most mythology define dragons as a type of serpent. So there is likely a type of cobra mongoose empathy. Spike and PeeWee could probably be the first friendly relation ever documented between a dragon and a Phoenix

[thubby]

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Hey, out of curiousity, if dragons dive into lava, why in the world are they intimidated by pheonix flames?

magic damage?

[Bayonet Priest]

more new ep

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And yeah, once again Rarity is best pony. Seriously, every time something pushes her she shows that she is best pony. Douchbag fratboy dragons giving her Spikey-wikey a hard time? She'll tear them to pieces. Best pony ever.

Twi's mass teleport was awesome too though, and I loved the phoenixes.

[TheAmishPirate]

My own Episode thoughts:

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This episode just plain sat right with me. When I got to the premise, I was anticipating fanon torn to shreds left and right. But instead, they kept things at the right level of vague; not specific enough to ruin stuff, and enough detail to play with. For the ponies, I'm glad they didn't use Pinkie Pie here. Poor girl's been taking overtime for the comic relief lately. Great performances from the three that followed him. As for little Spikey-wikey, he's dead-set on showing us all that he can handle an episode on his own. Provided he's supervised, of course.

My only real complaint is the over-stereotyped teenage dragons. Seriously, that just made me wince. In a show filled with great characters, lazy choices like that stick out like a sore thumb. I did count a few times when they could've acted to the true stereotype and didn't, so I guess it wasn't completely bad. And I also appreciate that the adult dragons seemed...well, adult. If all the dragons were acting like the teens, then some tables would've been flipped.

And on another note, I initially felt like I wanted to see the ponies tangle with the dragons, but on reflection, I've changed my mind. For one, having the girly ponies beat up the stereotypical frat boy dragons probably would've taken the underlying message too far. Second, having the dragons lose would seriously undermine the thought that dragons in this world are a serious threat at all ages (barring hatchlings).

In any case, I enjoyed this one. Glad to see that Merriweather Williams seems to have found her mark.

Another thought about the episode

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Dragons seem to be better parents than what many fans assumed.

There appeared to be a lot of them making sure that the kid dragons don't do anything too stupid, yet letting them play and take lava baths. They also seemed to have provided a hoard for the youngsters to eat.

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I completely missed that. I just noticed the adults were acting responsible, never thought that they'd be watching the youngsters.

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Poor Rainbow Dash. When it will be Rainbow Dash's turn to be the new Rainbow Dash?

Newep

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Did want to see the ponies beat the stuffing out of the dragons, especially after what is now my favourite line in the show.

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Yes. My goodness yes. Rarity continues to be a best pony.

[MCerberus]

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Yes. My goodness yes. Rarity continues to be a best pony.

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Yes, Rarity has officially supplanted Twilight as second-best best pony. The only thing yet to be seen is how much spike takes being her Spikey-Wikey as more than an adorable friend.

Rarity also put the kung-fu beatdown on one pony already this season if you'll remember too.

[Mando Knight]

Another thought...

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For it being a Dragon Quest, it felt a bit lacking...

Didn't realize what it was missing until now.

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Everyone knows it's not a DQ until there's Slimes about.

[Mewtarthio]

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And on another note, I initially felt like I wanted to see the ponies tangle with the dragons, but on reflection, I've changed my mind. For one, having the girly ponies beat up the stereotypical frat boy dragons probably would've taken the underlying message too far. Second, having the dragons lose would seriously undermine the thought that dragons in this world are a serious threat at all ages (barring hatchlings).

S2E21:

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I actually found that a little refreshing. It's a bit annoying how common it is for movies and TV shows to portray the proper response to bullying as "Bully them right back even harder!"

Plus, Spike and company had a totally non-violent option available to them (running away). Beating up the dragons wouldn't have accomplished anything except maybe stoking Rainbow Dash's ego, and it risks quite a bit (fail, and they're at the mercy of a bunch of child-killers; succeed, and they've just beaten up some obviously prideful dragons with even bigger parents).

Poor Rainbow Dash. When it will be Rainbow Dash's turn to be the new Rainbow Dash?

IRON WILL can help with that!

[TheAmishPirate]

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I actually found that a little refreshing. It's a bit annoying how common it is for movies and TV shows to portray the proper response to bullying as "Bully them right back even harder!"

Plus, Spike and company had a totally non-violent option available to them (running away). Beating up the dragons wouldn't have accomplished anything except maybe stoking Rainbow Dash's ego, and it risks quite a bit (fail, and they're at the mercy of a bunch of child-killers; succeed, and they've just beaten up some obviously prideful dragons with even bigger parents).

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Right. The messload of dragons chilling right the heck over there. That is also a valid reason to not get into a fight.

And a bit of a writing update, to show that I'm not slacking off in that department: I feel like I'm close to done with a first draft of the first chapter. Only problem is, I've gone and changed it up so much that my initial introduction of the pseudo-antagonist/rival character (which sets off the whole plot) no longer makes any sense. Gonna take a break, play some Tribes, and see if I can't think of a good way to handle this.

[Soras Teva Gee]

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Hey, out of curiousity, if dragons dive into lava, why in the world are they intimidated by pheonix flames?

I don't think they were seriously hurt by it so anymore then by a bright flash of light, but of course bright flash of light.

[Aotrs Commander]

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You sure? Because elder dragons can be assumed to have life expectancies well beyond a thousand years if they're prepared to just bunk up and sleep for hundreds at a time. The sun is probably a recent innovation for them as a culture. There'd be plenty of dragons around who were alive when it was forged. Moreover, they eat gemstones and live in caves, they don't need photosynthesis and plant matter, the sun could go out and it wouldn't affect their society in the slightest.

And I take a more conservative view of Celestia's power; while she could totally defeat a full grown dragon or two there's no way she could take on a dozen or more. If she had that kind of power she could have solo'd Discord without need for the Elements.

Dragons are pretty invincible. That's kinda their concept.

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Yes. Yes, I am entirely sure.

And that's BEFORE taking into account Celestia's potential goddesshood, that's just running on the fact that she's a pony (and therefore having inherent superpowers) and being freaky high level fom being around for so long, not too mention the thaumatergic boost for raising the sun and moon for a thousand years straight.

Dragons aren't so tough. They are long-lived - but spend most of their time ASLEEP. Age doesn't equal experience. And dragons generally rely far too much on their size and natural resistances rather than skill or effort - and thus far, Equestrian dragons have not demonstrated anything like the level of intelligence of D&D dragons - Spike seems by a large margin the smartest of all of them (perhaps not surprisingly, since Spike has had an education.)

Ponies, on the other hand, can take G-forces that would crush you average vertebrate into powder, can kick through metal when only a few days old, and demonstrate phenominal endurance and strength...

Disqord probably is also a god (do you really see Discord having the slightest trouble with a dragon? I don't.), which is why it required the elements to beat him. Though I suspect Celestia may not be willing to use the full extent of her power unless she absolutely has to, in case she, like, snaps the world in half with Awesome or something.

S2E21:

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I actually found that a little refreshing. It's a bit annoying how common it is for movies and TV shows to portray the proper response to bullying as "Bully them right back even harder!"

Plus, Spike and company had a totally non-violent option available to them (running away). Beating up the dragons wouldn't have accomplished anything except maybe stoking Rainbow Dash's ego, and it risks quite a bit (fail, and they're at the mercy of a bunch of child-killers; succeed, and they've just beaten up some obviously prideful dragons with even bigger parents).

!

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Oh, I agree. Tactically, it may as they say, not have been the best time to kick dragon arse. I'm just sayin' they totally could have...

[Lix Lorn]

broken spoiler lichy.

[Thanqol]

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Yes. Yes, I am entirely sure.

And that's BEFORE taking into account Celestia's potential goddesshood, that's just running on the fact that she's a pony (and therefore having inherent superpowers) and being freaky high level fom being around for so long, not too mention the thaumatergic boost for raising the sun and moon for a thousand years straight.

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The only high level magic Celestia's been proven to do required her to use the Elements of Harmony. Everything else is conjecture. If Celestia's power stems from divinity then she would only have domain over her portfolio, which dragons predate. Age does have power in divine terms.

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Dragons aren't so tough. They are long-lived - but spend most of their time ASLEEP. Age doesn't equal experience. And dragons generally rely far too much on their size and natural resistances rather than skill or effort - and thus far, Equestrian dragons have not demonstrated anything like the level of intelligence of D&D dragons - Spike seems by a large margin the smartest of all of them (perhaps not surprisingly, since Spike has had an education.)

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Conjecture both baffling and unfounded. Age may not equal experience but experience does not equal power. Experience could just be the knowledge that you don't mess with the thousands strong race of invincible dragons. Experience could be 'don't fight more than six dragons at once'. When you're immune to damage, older than the stars, and can breathe fire then you don't need skill or effort. That's what being a dragon is about; that's what a dragon is: Utter individual power.

Despite that power, dragons can still fall. But it is the work of armies and artifacts, of singular acts of heroism and inspired genius, of friendship and magic. The point is that many, many obstacles are involved and it's not something even a near divine creature like Celestia would be assured of or undergo lightly.

And you're judging the intelligence of all dragons based on the actions of a small group of teenagers. If you judged humanity by the actions of any given group of teenagers you'd have a casus belli for planetary invasion. The other dragons haven't said much, but Stephen Magnet proves they can be just as glamorous and sophisticated as any pony.

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Ponies, on the other hand, can take G-forces that would crush you average vertebrate into powder, can kick through metal when only a few days old, and demonstrate phenominal endurance and strength...

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Dragons can cause avalanches by snoring, can resist a direct kick from a pony to the face without flinching, can defeat the Royal Wonderbolts single-handed, can endure multiple high-velocity impacts in a short span without noticeable personal harm, can bathe in lava, and make ponies run in screaming terror. I think you're really reaching.

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Disqord probably is also a god (do you really see Discord having the slightest trouble with a dragon? I don't.), which is why it required the elements to beat him. Though I suspect Celestia may not be willing to use the full extent of her power unless she absolutely has to, in case she, like, snaps the world in half with Awesome or something.

[/SPOILER]

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Individually, I reckon Discord or Celestia could take dragons one on one no problem. I see them having serious problems facing a dozen or more.

And again, the dragons are older than the sun and bathe in molten lava. What is Celestia going to do to them? Crash the sun into the planet? I'm not convinced that would meaningfully hurt the dragons.

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Oh, I agree. Tactically, it may as they say, not have been the best time to kick dragon arse. I'm just sayin' they totally could have...

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I'd give 'em even odds.

[thubby]

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Individually, I reckon Discord or Celestia could take dragons one on one no problem. I see them having serious problems facing a dozen or more.

And again, the dragons are older than the sun and bathe in molten lava. What is Celestia going to do to them? Crash the sun into the planet? I'm not convinced that would meaningfully hurt the dragons.

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i think discord could fight a near limitless number of dragons, given time. the nature of his powers make every fight on his terms. if he can kill one on his own, and he got it in his head to exterminate a group of them, he'd pull them apart while they cast at shadows.
the only reason the elements and celestia are even alive is because he wanted to have his fun.

[Thanqol]

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i think discord could fight a near limitless number of dragons, given time. the nature of his powers make every fight on his terms. if he can kill one on his own, and he got it in his head to exterminate a group of them, he'd pull them apart while they cast at shadows.
the only reason the elements and celestia are even alive is because he wanted to have his fun.

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This is a far more likely and effective way to deal with dragons: Engineer a civil war through puppeteering and hypnotism.

Interestingly, while Discord's demonstrated a great deal of environmental control and magical effects we don't actually know his physical abilities. For all we know, he's vulnerable to being set on fire. For all we know, dragons are highly resistant to magic. For all we know, Discord can't block twelve simultaneous flame blasts. Insufficient data.

[OracleofWuffing]

Man, missing all these new episodes tears me up on the inside.

I can't speak very much for everywhere else or quality research, but it looks like the McDonald's in my area just ran out of Rainbows Dashes and Pinkies Pies today. Lots of Applejacks and Twilights Sparkles, though.

[Anarion]

Another thought...

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For it being a Dragon Quest, it felt a bit lacking...

Didn't realize what it was missing until now.

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Everyone knows it's not a DQ until there's Slimes about.

This. One thousand times this. Too bad that thing is practically the Dragon Quest mascot, but they should have snuck it in somewhere.

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Yes. Yes, I am entirely sure.

And that's BEFORE taking into account Celestia's potential goddesshood, that's just running on the fact that she's a pony (and therefore having inherent superpowers) and being freaky high level fom being around for so long, not too mention the thaumatergic boost for raising the sun and moon for a thousand years straight.

Dragons aren't so tough. They are long-lived - but spend most of their time ASLEEP. Age doesn't equal experience. And dragons generally rely far too much on their size and natural resistances rather than skill or effort - and thus far, Equestrian dragons have not demonstrated anything like the level of intelligence of D&D dragons - Spike seems by a large margin the smartest of all of them (perhaps not surprisingly, since Spike has had an education.)

Ponies, on the other hand, can take G-forces that would crush you average vertebrate into powder, can kick through metal when only a few days old, and demonstrate phenominal endurance and strength...

Disqord probably is also a god (do you really see Discord having the slightest trouble with a dragon? I don't.), which is why it required the elements to beat him. Though I suspect Celestia may not be willing to use the full extent of her power unless she absolutely has to, in case she, like, snaps the world in half with Awesome or something.

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Oh, I agree. Tactically, it may as they say, not have been the best time to kick dragon arse. I'm just sayin' they totally could have...

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I agree that Twilight and Rainbow (and Rarity, but mostly the first two) could definitely have taken the young dragons arrayed against them. I doubt they want to be making those kind of enemies though, and someone might have gotten hurt or the phoenix egg broken in the process, so running away was likely the more advisable choice. Fun as it would have been to hit them at sonic rainboom speeds while they were being held in stasis by large-scale telekinesis.

As for Celestia, she's powerful, sure, but I'm not sure raising the sun qualifies her for that much necessarily. That might be a specific ability that isn't related to general ability to kick butt with powerful alicorn magic. We also can't really judge from Discord since he seemed to be infinitely powerful to everything except the elements of harmony and merely choice to give the heroes a chance, which backfired on him. Discord was able to remove pony horns and wings, plus just steal the elements, so he only lost because he wanted to have fun and allow the heroes to win.

My own opinion is that Celestia beats a full-grown dragon 1 on 1, but would lose to an assault of massed dragons as seen in the great dragon migration, and might be strained against more than a couple dragons.

[OracleofWuffing]

This. One thousand times this. Too bad that thing is practically the Dragon Quest mascot, but they should have snuck it in somewhere.

What? No. That is the mascot for the Dragon Warrior series. Certainly, thou art confused. You know, the first game is about thy adventures in the footsteps of Erdrick, which hast always been named Erdrick and shalt always be named Erdrick?

*Covers ears, closes eyes* LALALALALALA NOT LISTENING TO LOGIC AND RATIONAL THOUGHT! AND ALSO THAT REALLY AWESOME DS GAME WITH THE TANKS!

[Triscuitable]

*Glances at UserCP, old thread post-bump-locked*

We're 36 pages in?!

Nevermind, not even going to try anymore.