Hordes of Barbarian Fixes [3.5e Class][PEACH]

[Milo v3]

Forward:

Spoiler

I want to run a few games of 3.5e using my homebrew campaign setting, but as I dislike some of the classes in normal D&D I decided to revise the classes so that they are more balanced, and better flavoured for my setting. Hopefully the revisions will work in most settings. Please PEACH this if you like or dislike anything here.

Barbarian
DIE! – The last words the victim of a Barbarian hears.

In the wilds, currency and charm doesn’t help you survive. And to survive you must have skill, power, and sense. Barbarians are powerful, athletic, and are more cunning than the beasts they fight against. They are juggernauts who can take the force of assaults, all the while eviscerating their opponents with speed and raw force.

These titans have learnt how to control their bodies in such a way, that they may actually enter a state of raw fury through pure force of will. While in this state they become stronger, swifter, but are much more uncontrolled.

Strangely because of their body manipulation, they can modify the elemental energy within themselves, improving their traits even further.

Role: Barbarians are generally front-line warriors, being able to survive huge amounts of punishment, and still deal out potent strikes.

Alignment: A Barbarians can be of any alignment.

Hit Die: d12.

Starting Gold: As Barbarian.

Class Skills
The barbarian's class skills are Acrobatics (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Perception (Wis), Ride (Dex), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str).
Skill Points at First Level: (4 + Int modifier)

Barbarian

Level	Base Attack Bonus	Fort Save	Ref Save	Will Save	Special	Wrath
1st	+1	+2	+0	+2	Rage 3/Day, Wrath	1
2nd	+2	+3	+0	+3	Embrace Wind, Uncanny Dodge	1
3rd	+3	+3	+1	+3	Feral Gift	1
4th	+4	+4	+1	+4	Rage 6/Day	1
5th	+5	+4	+1	+4	Enduring Soul, Improved Uncanny Dodge	2
6th	+6/+1	+5	+2	+5	Fearless	2
7th	+7/+2	+5	+2	+5	Embrace Stone	2
8th	+8/+3	+6	+2	+6	Mettle of Mountains, Rage 9/Day	2
9th	+9/+4	+6	+3	+6	Embrace River	3
10th	+10/+5	+7	+3	+7	Improved Enduring Soul, Tough Flesh	3
11th	+11/+6/+1	+7	+3	+7	Greater Rage	3
12th	+12/+7/+2	+8	+4	+8	Rage 12/Day, Titanic Strength	3
13th	+13/+8/+3	+8	+4	+8	Embrace Ash	4
14th	+14/+9/+4	+9	+4	+9	Embrace the Forest	4
15th	+15/+10/+5	+9	+5	+9	Embrace Life	4
16th	+16/+11/+6/+1	+10	+5	+10	Improved Mettle of Mountains, Willed Rage	4
17th	+17/+12/+7/+2	+10	+5	+10	Tireless Rage	5
18th	+18/+13/+8/+3	+11	+6	+11	Embrace Death	5
19th	+19/+14/+9/+4	+11	+6	+11	Mighty Rage	5
20th	+20/+15/+10/+5	+12	+6	+12	Soul of the Beast	5

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Barbarian.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A barbarian is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, bolas, light armor, medium armor, and shields (except tower shields).

Rage (Ex): A barbarian can fly into a rage a certain number of times per day. In a rage, a barbarian temporarily gains a +4 bonus to Strength, a +4 bonus to Constitution, and he takes a –4 penalty to Armor Class. The increase in Constitution increases the barbarian’s hit points by 2 points per level, but these hit points go away at the end of the rage when his Constitution score drops back to normal. (These extra hit points are not lost first the way temporary hit points are.) While raging, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except for Balance, Escape Artist, Intimidate, and Ride), the Concentration skill, or any abilities that require patience or concentration, nor can he cast spells or activate magic items that require a a spell trigger (such as a wand), or spell completion (such as a scroll) to function. He can use any feat he has except item creation feats, and metamagic feats. A fit of rage lasts for a number of rounds equal to 5 + the character’s (newly improved) Constitution modifier. A barbarian may prematurely end his rage. At the end of the rage, the barbarian loses the rage modifiers and restrictions and becomes fatigued (–2 penalty to Strength, –2 penalty to Dexterity, can’t charge or run) for 1d8 rounds (unless he is a 17th-level barbarian, at which point this limitation no longer applies; see below).

A barbarian can fly into a rage only three times per encounter. At 1st level he can use his rage ability thrice per day. At 4th level and every four levels thereafter, he can use it three additional times per day (to a maximum of 12 times per day at 12th level). Entering a rage takes no time itself, but a barbarian can do it only during his action, not in response to someone else’s action.

Wrath: While raging a Barbarian gains extra compabilities, these abilities are call Wraths. A Barbarian starts with a single Wrath and gains more as he increases in level, see table.

Embrace Wind (Ex): A barbarian is a warrior who has learnt who to control the primal energy inside themselves, by embracing the element of air he can move faster. Upon reaching second level barbarian’s land speed is faster than the norm for his race by +10 feet. This benefit applies only when he is wearing no armor, light armor, or medium armor and not carrying a heavy load. Apply this bonus before modifying the barbarian’s speed because of any load carried or armor worn.
In addition, while raging the speed bonus granted is increased to 10 feet for every four Barbarian levels, at a minimum of 10 feet.

Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 2nd level, a barbarian retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if he is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, he still loses his Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. If a barbarian already has uncanny dodge from a different class, he automatically gains improved uncanny dodge (see below) instead.

Feral Gift (Su): When a barbarian of 3rd level or above is raging, his bestial traits manifest granting him two claw attacks. These claws deal 1d6 slashing damage each, unless the Barbarian already possesses Claws which deal more damage.

Enduring Soul: Upon reaching 5th level, the barbarian gains Endurance as a bonus feat.
At 10th level, the barbarian gains Diehard as a bonus feat.

Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 5th level and higher, a barbarian can no longer be flanked. This defense denies a rogue the ability to sneak attack the barbarian by flanking him, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue levels than the target has barbarian levels. If a character already has uncanny dodge (see above) from a second class, the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead, and the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum level a rogue must be to flank the character.

Fearless (Ex): Beginning at 6th level, the barbarian bravery becomes so great it can’t falter, and gains immunity to fear effects.

Embrace Stone (Ex): At 7th level, by manipulating primordial earth a barbarian gains Damage Reduction. Subtract 2 from the damage the barbarian takes each time he is dealt damage from a weapon or a natural attack. At 10th level, and every three barbarian levels thereafter (13th, 16th, and 19th level), this damage reduction rises by 2 points. Damage reduction can reduce damage to 0 but not below 0.
While raging, the damage reduction granted through Embrace Stone is doubled.

Mettle of Mountains (Ex): At 8th level and higher, a barbarian can resist even magical and unusual attacks with great stamina and effort. If he succeeds a Fortitude saving throw against an effect that still has a partial effect on a successful save, he instead takes no effect. Mettle can be used only if the barbarian is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless barbarian does not gain the benefit of mettle.

Embrace River (Ex): A barbarian is a warrior who has learnt who to control the primal energy inside themselves, by embracing the element of water he can become fluid in movement. Upon reaching ninth level he gains a +4 insight bonus to Acrobatics, Climb and Swim checks.
While raging, the insight bonus granted by Embrace River increases to +10.
In addition to these effects he can also use Dexterity based skills while raging.

Tough Flesh (Ex): Upon reaching tenth level a barbarian has grown so accustom to battle, that his skin and muscle have grown resistant to attack. The barbarian gains a natural armor bonus to his armor class equal to a quarter of his barbarian level (rounded down). If the barbarian already possesses natural armor through other means, such as race, they overlap and do not stack.

Greater Rage (Ex): At 11th level, a barbarian’s bonuses to Strength and Constitution during his rage each increase to +6, and he gains a morale bonus on Will saves increases to +1. The penalty to AC remains at –4.

Titanic Strength (Ex): At 12th level, a barbarian’s strength and muscle is so poised and controlled that he can wield weapons that are made for creatures of one size larger than he is, without suffering from any penalties caused by using an oversized weapon.

In addition, for the purposes of encumberance, the barbarian counts as one size larger.

Embrace Ash (Ex): A barbarian is a warrior who has learnt who to control the primal energy inside themselves, by embracing the element of fire he can become empowered, at the cost of his durability. Upon reaching 13th level he can take a full round action to deal 2d10 damage to himself, for a number of rounds equal to the damage dealt his attacks deal 2 extra points of damage. This extra damage cannot be reduced by any form of resistance, immunity, or damage reduction.
While raging, the extra damage dealt by this ability increases to 5.

Embrace the Forest (Ex): A barbarian is a warrior who has learnt who to control the primal energy inside themselves, by embracing the element of wood he can learn to adapt. Upon reaching 14th level he gains a +2 insight bonus to knowledge (Nature), perception, and survival checks.
While raging, the insight bonus granted by Embrace the Forest increases to +4.
In addition to these effects he can also use Intelligence based skills while raging.

Embrace Life (Ex): A barbarian is a warrior who has learnt who to control the primal energy inside themselves, by embracing the element of positive energy he can survive where others would not. Upon reaching 15th level he gains immunity to all diseases and poisons.

Improved Mettle of Mountains: This ability works like mettle of mountains, except that while the barbarian still takes no effects on a successful fortitude saving throw against attacks he henceforth takes only the partial effect on a failed save. A helpless barbarian does not gain the benefit of improved mettle of the mountains.

Willed Rage (Ex): At 16th level, a barbarian has full control over his temperament and can enter rage an unlimited amounts of times per day. The barbarian still can’t enter rage more than three times per encounter.

Tireless Rage (Ex): At 17th level and higher, a barbarian no longer becomes fatigued at the end of his rage.

Embrace Death (Ex): A barbarian is a warrior who has learnt who to control the primal energy inside themselves, by embracing the element of negative energy he can survive where others would not. Upon reaching 18th level he gains immunity to Death Effects and a +4 Insight bonus on saves against necromancy effects.

Mighty Rage (Ex): At 19th level, a barbarian’s bonuses to Strength and Constitution during his rage each increase to +8, and his morale bonus on Will saves increases to +2. The penalty to AC remains at –4.

Soul of the Beast (Ex): At 20th level, a barbarian becomes a beast. He is forevermore treated as a monstrous humanoid rather than as a humanoid (or whatever the barbarian’s creature type was) for the purpose of spells and magical effects. Additionally, the barbarian becomes immune to non-lethal damage and can make diplomacy checks with animals, and magical beasts as if they were sentient and you shared a language.

[Milo v3]

Wrath
This is a list of the Wraths a barbarian can gain access to. Some Wraths are only active while raging. In addition to the base effects it increases at 10th and 20th level.

List of Wraths

Spoiler

Animal Fury
Prerequite: Feral Gift.
Benefit: If his claws are used as part of a full attack action, the claw attack is made at the barbarian's full base attack bonus –5. If the claw hits, it deals 1d6 points of damage plus half the barbarian's Strength modifier. A barbarian can make a claw attack as part of the action to maintain or break free from a grapple. This attack is resolved before the grapple check is made. If the claw attack hits, any grapple checks made by the barbarian against the target this round are at a +2 bonus.
10th Level Effect: The claws gained with Feral Gift increase its damage by one die, each claw now deals 1d8. In addition the +2 bonus to grapple checks increases to +4.
20th Level Effect: The claws gained with Feral Gift increase its damage by two dice, each claw now deals 1d12. In addition the +4 bonus to grapple checks increases to +8.

Beast Reflexes
Prerequite: Dexterity 10.
Benefit: While raging, the barbarian can make one additional attack of opportunity per round.
10th Level Effect: The barbarian can make an attack of opportunity against a foe that moves into any square threatened by the barbarian, regardless of whether or not that movement would normally provoke an attack of opportunity. This power can only be used once per rage.
20th Level Effect: When he makes an attack of opportunity he gains a +10 foot bonus to all his movement speeds, until the end of his turn.

Clear Mind
Prerequite: Wisdom 10.
Benefit: The barbarian gains a +5 bonus on saves against Enchantment spells and effects.
10th Level Effect: This bonus affects Divination spells and effects in addition to Enchantment. In addition and the bonus granted by this ability increases to +10.
20th Level Effect: The bonus granted by this ability becomes an immunity while Raging.

Elemental Bond
Prerequite: Knowledge (Nature) 4.
Benefit: While raging, the barbarian gains resistance to one energy type (acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic) equal to 1/2 her barbarian level (minimum 1). The energy type is chosen when this rage power is used and it can be changed next time the barbarian rages.
10th Level Effect: While raging, all of the barbarian's melee attacks deal an additional 1d6 points of energy damage (acid, cold, electricity, or fire). The type is chosen when the barbarian begins his rage.
20th Level Effect: While raging, the barbarian can absorb energy from a single attack and unleash it upon his enemies once per rage. He does not make a saving throw against the effect but takes no damage from it. At any point during the remainder of his rage he can unleash the stored energy as a breath weapon in either a 60-foot line or 30-foot cone. The breath weapon inflicts damage equal to the damage from the attack absorbed by the barbarian, but creatures within the area may make a Reflex save (DC 10 + 1/2 the barbarian's level + the barbarian's Constitution modifier) for half damage even if the original effect did not allow a save.

Hunter's Perception
Prerequiste: Perception 4.
Benefit: Barbarian gains low-light vision. Also while raging he gains Darkvision 30 feet or his Darkvision increases by 30 feet.
10th Level Effect: The Barbarian gains Darkvision 60 feet or his darkvision increases by 60 feet. In addition, while raging he gains Scent.
20th Level Effect: The Barbarian gains Scent. In addition, while raging he gains Blindsense 30 feet.

Intimidating Glare
Prerequite: Intimidate 1.
Benefit: The barbarian can make an Intimidate check against one adjacent foe as a move action. If the barbarian successfully demoralizes his opponent, the foe is shaken for 1d4 rounds + 1 round for every 5 points by which the barbarian's check exceeds the DC.
10th Level Effect: Succeeding causes the foe to be Frightened instead of shaken.
20th Level Effect: If the barbarian successfully demoralizes his opponent, the foe is frightened for 1d6 rounds + 1 round for every point the barbarian's check exceeds the DC.

Keen Strike
Prerequite: +3 BAB.
Benefit: While raging the critical range for all weapons is increased by two. For example, if a weapons has a critical range of 19-20 it will become 17-20.
10th Level Effect: The barbarian automatically confirms a critical hit. This power is used as an immediate action once a critical threat has been determined. This power can only be used once per rage.
20th Level Effect: While raging the critical range for all weapons is increased by five. For example, if a weapons has a critical range of 19-20 it will become 14-20. This repalces the normal benefit.

Murderous Skill
Prerequite: +4 BAB.
Benefit: The barbarian gains a +1 morale bonus on one attack roll. This bonus increases by +1 for every 6 levels the barbarian has attained. This power is used as a swift action before the roll to hit is made. This power can only be used once per rage.
10th Level Effect: The barbarian gains a +1 bonus on a single damage roll. This bonus increases by +1 for every 6 levels the barbarian has attained. This power is used as a swift action before the roll to hit is made. This power can only be used once per rage.
20th Level Effect: The creature loses 1d12 damage each round at the start of the affected creature's turn. This bleeding can be stopped by a successful DC 15 Heal skill check or through the application of any magical healing. This power is used as a swift action after an attack has dealt damage. This power can only be used once per rage.

Piercing Strike
Prerequite: +1 BAB.
Benefit: While raging all attacks from the Barbarian bypass Hardness.
10th Level Effect: While raging the Barbarians attacks bypass Hardness and count as Magical for the purposes of Damage Reduction.
20th Level Effect: Select one of the following: Cold Iron, or Silver. While raging all your attacks count as the being done with that material and whatever material the attack is truly done with.

Shattering Shout
Prerequite: Intimidate 1.
Benefit: The barbarian can expend a full-round action while raging roar with huge amounts of force, affecting an object or area as if by a shatter spell. If a creature is holding or wearing the target of the spell and the target is destroyed, the creature must make a Fortitude save or be dazed for 1 round and deafened for 1 minute by your terrible word. This is a sonic effect. This ability can only be used once per day.
10th Level Effect: The Barbarian can expend a standard action to use this ability rather than a Full-round action. In addition this ability can be used three times per day, but only once per Rage.
20th Level Effect: The Barbarian can expend a swift action to use this ability rather than a Standard action. In addition this ability can be used any number of times per day, but only once per Rage.

Sustained Life
Prerequite: Heal 4.
Benefit: As a standard action, the barbarian heals 1d8 points of damage + her Constitution modifier. For every four levels the barbarian has attained above 4th, this amount of damage healed increases by 1d8, to a maximum of 5d8 at 20th level. This power can be used only once per day and only while raging.
10th Level Effect: The Barbarian gains Fast Healing 1. In addition he can uses the sustained life ability twice a day.
20th Level Effect: The Barbarian gains Fast Healing 5. In addition he can uses the sustained life ability three times a day.

Titan's Strength
Prerequite: Strength 10.
Benefit: As a full-round action while raging, the barbarian can lift and hurl an object up to one size category smaller than herself with both hands or two size categories smaller with one hand as an improvised weapon with a range increment of 10 feet. This inflicts damage as a falling object plus the barbarian's Strength bonus. This damage is halved if the object is not made of stone, metal, or similar material. This is a ranged touch attack, and the target may attempt a Reflex save (DC 10 + 1/2 the barbarian's level + the barbarian's Strength modifier) for half damage. The barbarian may apply Power Attack to this attack as a one- or two-handed weapon, as appropriate.
10th Level Effect: The barbarian can increase the range increment of the Hurled object to 20 feet or increase the size of a hurled object by one size category.
20th Level Effect: While raging and making a charge attack, the barbarian may draw and throw a hurled weapon during her charge, gaining the normal +2 attack roll bonus on the thrown weapon attack as well as on the melee attack at the end of the charge. The barbarian must move at least 10 feet before using a thrown weapon and at least 10 additional feet before making a melee attack at the end of her charge. The barbarian must have a thrown weapon in hand or have one hand free at the beginning of her charge.

More to come....

[eftexar]

First you should probably throw peach at the top.

But second, it still has the main problem that stopped me from having any interest in playing the original barbarian. Rage has too many limitations for a boost to a couple ability scores. It has limited uses per day, fatigue at its end, and the once per an encounter limitation.
I think the encounter limitation is dumb, because, well it would be easier to say 'as long as he is fatigued or exhausted he may not activate it'. Otherwise it is clunky and I can't creatively bypass it.
Fatigue is completely unnecessary if it has limits to daily uses. I think one or the other should be removed, leaving the other as a limitation.

Everything else looks sound. I would say it squarely fits tier 4, though it's damage output exceeds most tier 4s.

[Milo v3]

Originally Posted by eftexar

But second, it still has the main problem that stopped me from having any interest in playing the original barbarian. Rage has too many limitations for a boost to a couple ability scores. It has limited uses per day, fatigue at its end, and the once per an encounter limitation.
I think the encounter limitation is dumb, because, well it would be easier to say 'as long as he is fatigued or exhausted he may not activate it'. Otherwise it is clunky and I can't creatively bypass it.
Fatigue is completely unnecessary if it has limits to daily uses. I think one or the other should be removed, leaving the other as a limitation.

Everything else looks sound. I would say it squarely fits tier 4, though it's damage output exceeds most tier 4s.

I've removed some of the limits, increased the number of times per day severely, added in that eventually it becomes infinite uses per day, and I have reduced the duration of fatigue to only a few rounds. Is this sufficient?

Also any idea on how to get this out of tier 4?

[eftexar]

Rage is definitely more usable. As far as raising it to tier 3 that would be difficult without adding a subsystem. Utility is what's missing here.
You could give it rage powers activated at will warlock style, but only during a rage. Basically it needs a list of extraordinary abilities that are at the level of invocations.
You could also go the animal totem route, but I've seen that in alot of other fixes so that might be redundant.

[Milo v3]

Originally Posted by eftexar

Rage is definitely more usable. As far as raising it to tier 3 that would be difficult without adding a subsystem. Utility is what's missing here.
You could give it rage powers activated at will warlock style, but only during a rage. Basically it needs a list of extraordinary abilities that are at the level of invocations.
You could also go the animal totem route, but I've seen that in alot of other fixes so that might be redundant.

I really don't want to go Animal Totem route, as it really doesn't fit with my campaign. I'll think about the Rage Powers though.

[Milo v3]

I've added in a new feature call Wrath, which grants him extra abilities.

So far I've made 11.

[Milo v3]

I haven't gotten an opinions on this class since adding the Wraths, but I was wondering about its power.

So what would the Tier of this Barbarian be? Also are there any potential problems with it?

[Kane0]

On his tier: He hasn't really gained much in the way of versatility but has definitely got more power behind him. That means he can allocate out feats and such in ways that he normally wouldn't be able to. Id say he moves from T4 to a solid T3.

On another note, feel free to grab anything you like from here, I hope it helps you out

[toapat]

3 things:

Embrace Wind is worded in a weird way, that makes the ability basically just Fast Movement

The natural Claw attacks will override any claw attacks the barbarian has, which can be bad if they are more powerful then D6s

This Barbarian gains Mettle of Mountains, not Mettle

[Milo v3]

Originally Posted by Kane0

On his tier: He hasn't really gained much in the way of versatility but has definitely got more power behind him. That means he can allocate out feats and such in ways that he normally wouldn't be able to. Id say he moves from T4 to a solid T3.

Thats what I was aiming for so thats good.

On another note, feel free to grab anything you like from here, I hope it helps you out

Thanks I'll give it a look.

Originally Posted by toapat

3 things:

Embrace Wind is worded in a weird way, that makes the ability basically just Fast Movement

It is based on Fast Movement, but it becomes more useful while raging. So most level 20 barbarians will be moving at 80 ft. per turn without magic.

The natural Claw attacks will override any claw attacks the barbarian has, which can be bad if they are more powerful then D6s

Made it so it doesn't override more powerful claw attacks.

This Barbarian gains Mettle of Mountains, not Mettle

I've never heard of Mettle of Mountains before...

[toapat]

Originally Posted by Milo v3

Made it so it doesn't override more powerful claw attacks.

I've never heard of Mettle of Mountains before...

ok

Mettle of Mountains is from Races of Stone, i found it while hunting for the Paladin varient that has a Ranged Smite, it is from the Goliath rogue substitution levels, replacing uncanny dodge. It is the actual name of the evasion ability you have here.

[Baron Corm]

First impression is, you've got way too many abilities there. I'm not going to comment on balance yet, because it could use some organization.

I would take out abilities like Indomitable Will and Trap Sense that barely do anything useful, or roll them into other abilities.

I would take all of your Embrace abilities and put them under one heading, as well as make them slightly more related to each other.

I would do the same with all of your Rage improvement abilities that have the word "Rage" in the name.

If you want to keep them all separate, I would just drop at least five of your least favorite abilities. If the others aren't good enough to make a class, make them stronger. A bunch of minor, situational bonuses to things just leads to a lot of clutter. At almost every level you're gaining multiple things at once, which is always a bad sign.

'Tis your class but that's my advice.

And yes, regular Mettle works against both Fortitude and Will saves.

[NeoSeraphi]

Why would you put in Intimidating Glare but not Terrifying Howl? That's one of PF's best rage powers!

I advise you to change Intimidating Glare's 10th level ability to Terrifying Howl. Barbarians need some AoEs, they're useful.

In other news, giving the barbarian such a large bonus to his Will saves while raging when you have already increased the duration of the rage, the number of days you can rage per round and given the barbarian a Good Will save progression is probably overdoing it by a lot. The paladin and the monk are supposed to have the highest saves in the game. The barbarian is meant to be a DPR class, not a tank. (He gets defenses to keep him up from hit point damage, but not from magic, usually).

Personally? I'd halve the bonus he gets to Will saves while raging, or perhaps just give him the Superstition rage power for free, so he gets a bonus to resist spells and SLAs of all kinds while raging, rather than just pumping his Will save.

For Titanic Strength, just have the barbarian count as one Size larger for the purposes of carrying capacity. It's more consistent with the flavor of the ability and really, if the DM is actually enforcing carrying capacity rules, the barbarian should get more slack cut than just an extra 5 Strength at level 12. People play barbarians because they want to be able to lift houses and throw them at people, legitimately.

I would drop Trap Sense. That's not really barbarian-ish. Wild Instinct is replicated enough by Uncanny Dodge. If you want a small, flavorful scaling ability, how about a +1 bonus to CMB checks when a barbarian attempts a bull rush or sunder combat maneuver? Much more the pillager's style, I think.

All in all, a decent fix. I think it will be very playable, although I do hope you plan to bring in Ferocious Mount as well (I love me some mounted barbarians).

[toapat]

Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi

Why would you put in Intimidating Glare but not Terrifying Howl? That's one of PF's best rage powers!

I advise you to change Intimidating Glare's 10th level ability to Terrifying Howl. Barbarians need some AoEs, they're useful.

In other news, giving the barbarian such a large bonus to his Will saves while raging when you have already increased the duration of the rage, the number of days you can rage per round and given the barbarian a Good Will save progression is probably overdoing it by a lot. The paladin and the monk are supposed to have the highest saves in the game. The barbarian is meant to be a DPR class, not a tank. (He gets defenses to keep him up from hit point damage, but not from magic, usually).

Personally? I'd halve the bonus he gets to Will saves while raging, or perhaps just give him the Superstition rage power for free, so he gets a bonus to resist spells and SLAs of all kinds while raging, rather than just pumping his Will save.

For Titanic Strength, just have the barbarian count as one Size larger for the purposes of carrying capacity. It's more consistent with the flavor of the ability and really, if the DM is actually enforcing carrying capacity rules, the barbarian should get more slack cut than just an extra 5 Strength at level 12. People play barbarians because they want to be able to lift houses and throw them at people, legitimately.

I would drop Trap Sense. That's not really barbarian-ish. Wild Instinct is replicated enough by Uncanny Dodge. If you want a small, flavorful scaling ability, how about a +1 bonus to CMB checks when a barbarian attempts a bull rush or sunder combat maneuver? Much more the pillager's style, I think.

All in all, a decent fix. I think it will be very playable, although I do hope you plan to bring in Ferocious Mount as well (I love me some mounted barbarians).

All good sugestions, i would also suggest replacing Mettle with Mettle of the Mountain/improved

[Milo v3]

Originally Posted by toapat

ok

Mettle of Mountains is from Races of Stone, i found it while hunting for the Paladin varient that has a Ranged Smite, it is from the Goliath rogue substitution levels, replacing uncanny dodge. It is the actual name of the evasion ability you have here.

I've changed the name.

Originally Posted by Baron Corm

First impression is, you've got way too many abilities there. I'm not going to comment on balance yet, because it could use some organization.

I would take out abilities like Indomitable Will and Trap Sense that barely do anything useful, or roll them into other abilities.

I've removed Indomitable Will and Trap sense, but I don't see how it isn't organized.

I would take all of your Embrace abilities and put them under one heading, as well as make them slightly more related to each other.

They wouldn't really work as one ability....
Also having them seperate allows advancement to be spread across the levels. As for relating them to each other, they are the Barbarian gaining skills of surviving in the wild, each of which relating to a single element.

I would do the same with all of your Rage improvement abilities that have the word "Rage" in the name.

They are the default abilities of the Barbarian, also they are too different to merge into one ability.

If you want to keep them all separate, I would just drop at least five of your least favorite abilities. If the others aren't good enough to make a class, make them stronger. A bunch of minor, situational bonuses to things just leads to a lot of clutter. At almost every level you're gaining multiple things at once, which is always a bad sign.

Now that Trapsense is gone, the Barbarian only gains multiple things at level 1, and 2....

Also if I removed that many abilities, there would be many dead levels, which are a bad thing.

And yes, regular Mettle works against both Fortitude and Will saves.

And I think thats stupid.

Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi

Why would you put in Intimidating Glare but not Terrifying Howl? That's one of PF's best rage powers!

I'm going to slowly add more as I barely even looked at the PF rage stuff.

I advise you to change Intimidating Glare's 10th level ability to Terrifying Howl. Barbarians need some AoEs, they're useful.

I'll have a look at it and think about it.

In other news, giving the barbarian such a large bonus to his Will saves while raging when you have already increased the duration of the rage, the number of days you can rage per round and given the barbarian a Good Will save progression is probably overdoing it by a lot. The paladin and the monk are supposed to have the highest saves in the game. The barbarian is meant to be a DPR class, not a tank. (He gets defenses to keep him up from hit point damage, but not from magic, usually).

Personally? I'd halve the bonus he gets to Will saves while raging, or perhaps just give him the Superstition rage power for free, so he gets a bonus to resist spells and SLAs of all kinds while raging, rather than just pumping his Will save.

I've reduced the bonuses to Will Saves.

For Titanic Strength, just have the barbarian count as one Size larger for the purposes of carrying capacity. It's more consistent with the flavor of the ability and really, if the DM is actually enforcing carrying capacity rules, the barbarian should get more slack cut than just an extra 5 Strength at level 12. People play barbarians because they want to be able to lift houses and throw them at people, legitimately.

Done. As for lifting houses, see Titan's Strength.

I would drop Trap Sense. That's not really barbarian-ish. Wild Instinct is replicated enough by Uncanny Dodge. If you want a small, flavorful scaling ability, how about a +1 bonus to CMB checks when a barbarian attempts a bull rush or sunder combat maneuver? Much more the pillager's style, I think.

I've removed Trapsense.

All in all, a decent fix. I think it will be very playable, although I do hope you plan to bring in Ferocious Mount as well (I love me some mounted barbarians).

I do.

Originally Posted by toapat

All good sugestions, i would also suggest replacing Mettle with Mettle of the Mountain/improved

Done.

[toapat]

Originally Posted by Milo v3

And I think thats stupid.

the problem with Mettle is that its a pair of good abilities under one name, and given to classes that shouldnt have it as much as someone like a Paladin, or expecially a Knight.

[Baron Corm]

I meant more like this:

Embrace Nature

At levels X, Y, Z, and Q, the barbarian embraces one aspect of nature from the following list.

Water: Blah.
Air: Blah blah.

And on the table, calling it something like Embrace Nature I, Embrace Nature II, or however you would do it. Also spacing them out at even intervals, as most abilities of this nature are, but that might be difficult with your setup.

I did not mean shoving all of them into one ability and calling it a day. This just makes things a lot easier to read and go through.

You acknowledged a needed change in name from Mettle to Mettle of the Mountains so I'm not sure why you called it stupid. I'm not suggesting you add the regular ability if you don't want it, or anything like that.

[toapat]

Originally Posted by Baron Corm

You acknowledged a needed change in name from Mettle to Mettle of the Mountains so I'm not sure why you called it stupid. I'm not suggesting you add the regular ability if you don't want it, or anything like that.

im not calling Mettle stupid, im calling it a mechanic that is stupidly used and was created without enough forethought

[Milo v3]

Originally Posted by Baron Corm

I meant more like this:

Embrace Nature

At levels X, Y, Z, and Q, the barbarian embraces one aspect of nature from the following list.

Water: Blah.
Air: Blah blah.

And on the table, calling it something like Embrace Nature I, Embrace Nature II, or however you would do it. Also spacing them out at even intervals, as most abilities of this nature are, but that might be difficult with your setup.

I did not mean shoving all of them into one ability and calling it a day. This just makes things a lot easier to read and go through.

So all it is, is shoving multiple features into one space rather than have several abilities. That wouldn't look good and it is unnecessary.

You acknowledged a needed change in name from Mettle to Mettle of the Mountains so I'm not sure why you called it stupid. I'm not suggesting you add the regular ability if you don't want it, or anything like that.

I'm saying that Mettle affecting both Fortitude and Will Saves is stupid.

[NeoSeraphi]

I would suggest you change the wording of Mettle of the Mountains slightly, so that it reads something more like this: "If he succeeds a Fortitude saving throw against an effect that still has a partial effect on a successful save, he instead takes no effect."

See, as it is now, you only have him taking no damage from Fortitude saves, which is admittedly a nice feature, but it won't come up nearly as often as evasion, since Fort save-for-half abilities are rare (pretty much limited to [sonic] AOE spells and save-or-dies, as far as I can remember).

Meanwhile, there are plenty of Fortitude Partial effects that you could be negating with my suggested change, like ray of exhaustion (fatigue on a successful save), cloudkill (1/2 of 1d4 Con damage on a successful save), prismatic spray, and etc.

[Milo v3]

Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi

I would suggest you change the wording of Mettle of the Mountains slightly, so that it reads something more like this: "If he succeeds a Fortitude saving throw against an effect that still has a partial effect on a successful save, he instead takes no effect."

See, as it is now, you only have him taking no damage from Fortitude saves, which is admittedly a nice feature, but it won't come up nearly as often as evasion, since Fort save-for-half abilities are rare (pretty much limited to [sonic] AOE spells and save-or-dies, as far as I can remember).

Meanwhile, there are plenty of Fortitude Partial effects that you could be negating with my suggested change, like ray of exhaustion (fatigue on a successful save), cloudkill (1/2 of 1d4 Con damage on a successful save), prismatic spray, and etc.

Thanks for the suggestion.