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2012-08-04, 01:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
One thing that worries me slightly is that if I were to use such updated rules in a Hunter/Vampire crossover game, the Hunter would have a much harder time fighting vampires. But then, Hunters are supposed to face deadly odds.
My FFRP characters. Avatar by Ashen Lilies. Sigatars by Ashen Lilies, Gullara and Purple Eagle.
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2012-08-04, 01:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2004
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- The Land of Angles
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2012-08-04, 01:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2006
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Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
Maybe. I don't have Armory Reloaded, so I wouldn't know.
My FFRP characters. Avatar by Ashen Lilies. Sigatars by Ashen Lilies, Gullara and Purple Eagle.
Interested in the Nexus FFRP setting? See our Discord server.
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2012-08-04, 02:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-08-04, 05:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2009
Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
I always thought it was kind of ridiculous that a switchblade was more dangerous to a vampire than a pistol. Maybe if it was treated as an area of surface function or something; a bullet just goes in one side and out the other, damaging useless organs, while an axe messes up a broad swath of muscles and load-bearing bones.
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2012-08-04, 06:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2005
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Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
It might have a hope of making Gangrel more threatening as physical combat monsters, if they become the only clan natively capable of doing better than bashing damage in combat.
NOW COMPLETE: Let's Play Starcraft II Trilogy:
Hell, It's About Time: Wings of Liberty
Does This Mutation Make Me Look Fat: Heart of the Swarm
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2012-08-05, 02:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
Speaking of rules hacks and houserules, has anyone here ever encountered a better combat system for oWoD? I want to get one together for a game of Sorcerer's Crusade I'll be running for my group in the near future...
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2012-08-05, 05:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
I don't think nWoD is detailed enough for such a distinction. Having all weapons deal Bashing damage might be for the best... after all, quite a lot of things that make edged weapons lethal to humans simply don't apply to vampires, since they're dead anyway. The reasoning behind bullets doing Bashing damage can be safely extended to blades as well.
It all depends on all the other changes they introduce, really. Disciplines are also going to be revamped, although we don't know to what extent.My FFRP characters. Avatar by Ashen Lilies. Sigatars by Ashen Lilies, Gullara and Purple Eagle.
Interested in the Nexus FFRP setting? See our Discord server.
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2012-08-05, 05:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2012
Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
I've got one for nWOD that's sort of WOD v1.5. It's a little bit firearms centric, but I'll put up my melee hack here in a few minutes.
That took a little longer than expected - the melee handout is here.Last edited by CET; 2012-08-05 at 01:51 PM.
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Strange Passages: Game ideas, monsters, equipment, and thoughts on GMing
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2012-08-05, 11:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2009
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2012-08-05, 02:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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- ganiseville GA
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Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
I would make a weapon deal lethal damage to vampires if it was a lethal weapon over size 3. Axes would still break bones. Knives would tickle. I would include the ability to deal lethal damage with head shots, for guns and melee weapons.
Last edited by Fouredged Sword; 2012-08-05 at 02:06 PM.
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2012-08-05, 02:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
Aw. That makes my knife-throwing Carthian assassin no longer as viable.
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2012-08-05, 04:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2008
Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
So i'm making a character for Hunter: the Vigil and in the midst of reading up on Ashwood Abbey and trying to learn more about the system, i've run into an error. A critical part of my character was going to be that his main weapon (ala the only thing he uses on the vigil) was a sword, but I can't find rules for using a sword. Let alone making him good enough to hang with the rest of the unnatural world.
Can someone help me/point me in the right direction?Last edited by DUSUCK; 2012-08-05 at 04:31 PM.
DEGENERATION 93: Copy this into your sig and subtract 1 from the degeneration when you first see it. This is an antisocial experiment.
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2012-08-05, 04:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
A sword would add an Equipment bonus to your attacks depending on the size (+2 to +3, probably). Having that be his only weapon would be a very bad idea, though, because Mortal + Melee + Almost any supernatural = very high odds of Chunky Salsa. Smart hunters carry melee weapons as backup, and pack really big guns.
NOW COMPLETE: Let's Play Starcraft II Trilogy:
Hell, It's About Time: Wings of Liberty
Does This Mutation Make Me Look Fat: Heart of the Swarm
My Life For Aiur? I Barely Know 'Er: Legacy of the Void
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2012-08-05, 05:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2008
Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
DEGENERATION 93: Copy this into your sig and subtract 1 from the degeneration when you first see it. This is an antisocial experiment.
IRRITATION 11: If this is the hundreth time you see one of these dumb things, add a number to the Irritation and put it in your signature. This is a flip-off to social experiments.
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2012-08-05, 05:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
Unfortunately, the only way to make that a realistic Plan A is to only engage the mortal pawns/mooks of said supernaturals, while your friends fight the actual monsters with their guns. Minion sweeper can still be a useful role, but there really isn't a way to make a mortal melee monster who can stand up to many supernaturals. The ones you could take in melee are also the ones that will be the hardest to get into a fight with on your terms.
Not fighting smart is the quickest way to get killed on the Vigil.NOW COMPLETE: Let's Play Starcraft II Trilogy:
Hell, It's About Time: Wings of Liberty
Does This Mutation Make Me Look Fat: Heart of the Swarm
My Life For Aiur? I Barely Know 'Er: Legacy of the Void
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2012-08-05, 06:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
Ok, melee for mortals 101 - Combat styles, combat styles, combat styles.
Swords have a few relevant combat styles. Pick up the armory and the armory reloaded.
Aggressive light sword (fencing) - Armory pg210
defensive Striking (Iaido) - Reloaded pg76
Sword and Shield - Reloaded pg 92
Two weapon Fighting -core pg 112
Heavy Sword - reloaded pg 83
Ok, you have three general ideas.
The caped matador - defensive fighter
Spoiler
The core of this build is a fencing foil and cape.
You need -
Sword and shield 000
Fencing 0000
Two weapon fighting 00
Spec your stats for good defense. A shield will give you +1 for -2 to attack rolls. Deflect and thrust will grant you an additional +2 for -2. Pick up some armor. You do not lose defense vs multiple attacks.
Now your attacks are painfully penalized. Fix this by feinting with a . Next round drop deflect and thrust, use moulinet, and shielded strike to deal your dex in auto damage and hit powerfully.
The sword dicing blender - aggressive fighter
Spoiler
This all out style uses a katana to cut things to pieces.
Needs
Kendo (sidebar for fencing) 0000
Heavy sword 0000
Iaido 00
Quick draw
You go first. You add your weaponry dots to initiative. Second you strike. If they still live use doubling cut to strike again. If they still live use Nidan Waza to strike again!
The heavy counter - balanced fighter
Spoiler
Heavy sword 000.
Strength as high as you can get it. 5 preferably.
Get a great sword (see the armory section on swords). Use half sword and swing it. Things die. You add 2 damage to all hits after your successes. When things swing at you use fools guard to block and deal damage back at them, adding two damage after your successes.
None of this will save you from a combat focused monster. The heavy sword and katana concept weather the best, as they can hope to deal massive damage quick enough to just drop foes. Anything with powers is likely going to overwhelm any defense you may muster. It needs to ether end up dead or you will.Last edited by Fouredged Sword; 2012-08-05 at 06:49 PM.
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2012-08-05, 06:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2009
Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
And here Fouredged Sword demonstrates why the first thing to do is not to choose any Fighting Style, but ask your ST to ban vast majority of them. WoD battle is already ridiculous murder system without some house rules, and with Fighting Styles battles between skilled combatants are decided by Initiative rolls So yeah, take them behind the woodshed, shoot them in the back of the head and dumb their corpses somewhere deep. But that's just my opinion.
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2012-08-05, 06:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
I stand corrected. A mortal who wins Initiative can kill stuff in melee quite well. The difference is that if you lose initiative, you still explode like a soggy paper bag, whereas being a ranged fighter means you only explode like a soggy paper bag from losing initiative if your opponent is also ranged.
NOW COMPLETE: Let's Play Starcraft II Trilogy:
Hell, It's About Time: Wings of Liberty
Does This Mutation Make Me Look Fat: Heart of the Swarm
My Life For Aiur? I Barely Know 'Er: Legacy of the Void
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2012-08-05, 06:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
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2012-08-05, 07:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2006
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- England
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Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
Our G.M. has always ruled that you can only use one combat style at a time. I'm presuming from previous posts this isn't so or is it ? Is there a hard and fast ruling on that and if so where ?
Though yes IMHO Heavy Seword is way over-poweredLast edited by comicshorse; 2012-08-05 at 07:31 PM.
All Comicshorse's posts come with the advisor : This is just my opinion any difficulties arising from implementing my ideas are your own problem
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2012-08-05, 08:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-08-05, 09:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
As far as I am aware you can do as much as you like with as many styles as you like, but you can't spend something twice. You can only lose your defense once and spend one willpower per round.
Many styles provide passive bonuses that all function simultaneously. Some abilities cost willpower, and others cost your defense for the round. Other still change the effect of your strikes to something other than damage. They are a very useful system that a player should become familiar with.
I like them a lot. Without them fighting becomes who has the most dice. Guns beat large melee weapons beat everything else. Now there is a reason to get close, and close in action is more dynamic. I especially like the ones that make defense options something that, well, functions.
Just make sure your ST seeds the world with NPCs who are also using combat styles, and what a mortal can do with them pales compared to what a super can do.
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2012-08-06, 07:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
All Comicshorse's posts come with the advisor : This is just my opinion any difficulties arising from implementing my ideas are your own problem
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2012-08-06, 07:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
Your actions in a turn are limited. If you have multiple fighting styles that provide passive bonuses/benefits, they all apply as long as you meet whatever requirements (Spetsnaz Knife Fighting requires you to be using a knife, for instance). However, the active maneuvers (say, Spetsnaz's double-strike ability) are limited by the number of actions you can perform in a turn.
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2012-08-06, 02:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2004
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- The Land of Angles
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2012-08-06, 04:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
Thanks
All Comicshorse's posts come with the advisor : This is just my opinion any difficulties arising from implementing my ideas are your own problem
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2012-08-06, 11:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
Actually, it's suggested that if Leviathan finds you at the wrong depth, he takes you to the correct zone and holds you there, dragging you down through the ocean's zones in order until you're back at the depth you were at with the correct number and type of identifiers. There's a bit of ambiguity re: how fast a person who suddenly finds himself in possession of a higher level identifier would rise through the zones, but the Leviathan is stated to travel through the ocean in an instant. And speaking as a Storyteller, when plans depend on both the kindness of Great Cthulhu and a charitable interpretation of the mechanics for the black abyss at the deepest part of the Underworld, I'm probably not going to say "sure, that works." My response is more likely to skew towards "roll to see if you cry, and if so, how hard."
Believe or not, there's some real life justification for Requiem's RAW on slashing weapons versus firearms, although it's a bit of a simplification. Weapons that primarily work by piercing are more likely to hit a vital organ and thus result in a fatal injury. However, an attack that pierces straight through a person to hit vitals is less likely to do serious damage to the musculature/skeletal structure/nervous system around the wound, so until the victim collapses from blood loss/shock or the nervous system is directly damaged, he can still fight. Contrast that with attacks made by an edged weapon, which are more likely to hit limbs or penetrate less deeply into the target's body, but are also more likely to sever the muscles tendons, nerves, etc... required for the damaged body parts to keep functioning. It doesn't matter if the wound is actually going to kill you or not, if the tendons that allow you to clench your hand or the muscles that move your leg are severed, you're going to have a hard time continuing to fight.
As physical creatures who maintain their life through supernatural means, vampires don't care nearly as much about piercing injuries because hey, they weren't using that pancreas anyway. They still rely on muscles, bones and tendons to move though, so attacks that damage these will still put them down even if a coup de grâce is required to finish them off.
Personally, I think a better system might be to create a system in which injuries dealing more damage than (target's Stamina + N) have a chance to cause some sort of crippling injury (which would differ based on the type of damage and the weapon). Under this modification, vampires downgrade all damage to bashing, but can still be temporarily crippled by weapons that damage their bodies in appropriate ways. Whether the resulting increase in complexity is worth what I'd consider an increase in verisimilitude is debatable though. I think the current rules are fine as an abstraction.
This, pretty much. I like that nWoD combat is lethal and favors ambush, superior numbers, trickery, and fervent prayer to the God Machine. It's a horror game, and even the powerful supernaturals still fall down when they're shot enough times; that's why they don't walk around openly eating people. If I wanted a focus on tactically exciting combat that lasted for a significant length of time without the death of at least one combatant, I would play a tabletop war/skirmish game or a video game.
That said, I'm thinking about possibly implementing some form of damage soak in my games because Defense in nWoD is so useless it's sad, and giving the defender something to roll might make things more interesting. I have some ideas, but has anyone else tried doing anything like that?
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2012-08-07, 12:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2009
Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
"The Law of Depth- The progression of erosion must be followed.
It is a violation of the laws to attempt to dive down to a deeper zone in an attempt to lose a particular identifier. That is, in order to lose a truth (and stay faithful to the laws), a character must first lose all motes and formatives. A character that attempts to break this law attracts the notice of the Leviathan,
who usually holds him at his “proper” depth until he either escapes or loses the right kinds of identifiers to return to the depth he was attempting to reach."
The law governs downward motion only; otherwise, no one could ever come back past the second zone, since that's where you lose access to the beach.
In any case, the mage physically disappears when his threshold begins, and reappears at a Demense or Hallow afterwards. The Mind reboot was a redoubt in case it was different in the Underworld.
Speaking as a player, if I suggested this Threshold to my ST and he answered "Huh. Let's see", and then let my character die because of the fluff I chose for the character's transition process, that ST would lose some extremities. Maybe I should just stick with the sample in IM of "Mage ruminates for an extended period. Mage reconciles with failed student. Mage casts Imperial Spell". Forgive me for wanting a Moros' Mystery Play to be a little more metal than that.Last edited by Cirrylius; 2012-08-07 at 12:36 PM.
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2012-08-07, 08:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
Thematically though you're character is rules lawyering existence trying to comprehend infinity and Mage is still part of the WOD horror line. If there wasn't a real risk of something going tremendously and horrifically wrong it would break narrative verisimilitude. I would give you bonus successes for creative outside the box thinking and a cool concept but I would still require a die roll with a high chance of failure. Nobody said attaining phenomenal cosmic power was safe.
Last edited by Spamotron; 2012-08-07 at 08:52 PM.