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Thread: Quick Grammar Question
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2012-09-28, 10:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Quick Grammar Question
I was under the impression that, if I have quotation marks and a comma, the comma always goes inside the quotation marks. Is this true, and is the following sentence consequently correct or not?
It not only clears your space of “stuff”, but lightens your
internal load as well.
One place I found says that:The only exception is when that last little item enclosed in quotation marks is just a letter or a number, in which case the period or comma will go outside the closing quotation marks:
~The buried treasure was marked on the map with a large "X".
~The only grade that will satisfy her is an "A".
~On this scale, the highest ranking is a "1", not a "10".
Thanks Playground.Last edited by Riverdance; 2012-09-28 at 10:18 PM.
Many thanks to Ceika for my Avatar
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2012-09-28, 10:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2012
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Re: Quick Grammar Question
In your example, the comma should be inside the quotes. The exceptions listed are sort of odd (I wouldn't put those in quotes to begin with).
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2012-09-28, 10:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2011
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- the crisper drawer
Re: Quick Grammar Question
If I recall correctly, commas inside emphatic quotation marks is a style issue. American style guides generally recommend commas inside, while British style guides say outside.
Inside feels wrong to me on some fundamental level, so I always stick them outside.
Someone's going to level a pedantic sneer in your direction no matter which style you choose, so I'd say just go with what feels natural and be consistent.
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2012-09-28, 10:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-09-28, 10:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2011
Re: Quick Grammar Question
I put the punctuation marks inside the quotation marks (because I think it looks cleaner), but it's not a strict rule either way. If you're writing an essay or something, just try to be consistent about which way you do it.
... I came to appreciate that mountains make poor receptacles for dreams.
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2012-09-28, 10:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Quick Grammar Question
Most American style guides, such as the Chicago Manual of Style, instruct writers to put commas and periods inside the quotation marks. This is not true of all punctuation. For example, semicolons go outside the quotation marks.
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2012-09-28, 11:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2005
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- Australia
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Re: Quick Grammar Question
First, I strongly disagree with the American style of putting all those punctuation marks inside quotation marks, so I follow my own rules, which closely resemble the Australian/British styles.
My rules are as follows:
- If it's a direct quote and you're not quoting a punctuation mark, but instead it is a punctuation mark for the sentence you are writing, put the punctuation mark OUTSIDE the quotation marks.
- If it is a direct quote and you are quoting a punctuation mark, put it INSIDE the quotation marks.
"My Hobby: Replacing your soap with gravy" by rtg0922, Doll and Clint "Rawhide" Eastwood by Sneak
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2012-09-29, 12:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2011
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2012-09-29, 12:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2005
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- Australia
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Re: Quick Grammar Question
"My Hobby: Replacing your soap with gravy" by rtg0922, Doll and Clint "Rawhide" Eastwood by Sneak
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2012-09-29, 12:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2011
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2012-09-29, 01:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2011
Re: Quick Grammar Question
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2012-09-29, 01:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2005
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- Australia
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Re: Quick Grammar Question
Strongly disagree on easier to understand. Quotation marks indicate quotes and should only contain what has been quoted, American style be darned. Doing it the American way is confusing, particularly when you want to quote a quote (e.g. Did the original quote have that comma/period or not?)
"My Hobby: Replacing your soap with gravy" by rtg0922, Doll and Clint "Rawhide" Eastwood by Sneak
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2012-09-29, 01:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2008
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2012-09-29, 06:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
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- Northern California
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Re: Quick Grammar Question
This is pretty much how I do it as well (as an American). I do recognize that if I'm writing to a formal audience (for example, submitting a story to an editor), I'll follow the "correct" style. (I realize after writing the previous sentence that what I'm doing is basically following the rules for parentheticals when I use quote marks.)
The one exception al the time for me is attributions. Thus:
"This is pretty," she said.
So even though what she said is a complete sentence in itself, a period would feel wrong to me. And again, I'm not going to make a fiction editor believe I don't know this. So the bottom line is, "know your audience".I have my own TV show featuring local musicians performing live. YouTube page with full episodes and outtake clips here.
I also have another YouTube page with local live music clips I've filmed on my own.
Then there is my gaming YouTube page with Kerbal Space Program, Minecraft, and others.
Finally, I stream on Twitch, mostly Kerbal Space Program and Minecraft.
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2012-09-29, 06:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-09-29, 06:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2010
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- Birmingham, UK
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Re: Quick Grammar Question
In the original example, I'd say it depends on whether they're actually quotation marks or just inverted commas. If it's actual speech that you're quoting, a thing that someone you've identified said at a particular time, the punctuation goes on the inside. But it looks like this is just using inverted commas to indicate that this isn't normally a word that the writer would use, what's sometimes called 'scare quotes', which isn't the same as quoting direct speech. (I distinguish these by using " for quoted speech and ' for scare quotes, although most things I read tend to do it the other way around.) In that case, it's treated as a normal sentence, and the punctuation goes on the outside.
"Scare quotes," Juggling Goth said.
-versus-
What's sometimes called 'scare quotes', which isn't the same.
Because sod's law is a constant of the universe, I make so many typing and syntax errors when I'm talking about grammar. I can't even.
Ultimately, punctuation is there to clarify matters and keep separate ideas where they ought to be. ("Let's eat, Grandma!" versus "Let's eat Grandma!") If your sentence makes sense, and only has one interpretation, you're doing it right. I'm really not happy with the grammar in that particular set of parentheses - I don't like the way the sentence-ender for the discrete bit in the second quotation marks also has to serve for the whole external sentence, which I would prefer to end on a full stop - but it makes sense, so I'm gonna leave it.Last edited by Juggling Goth; 2012-09-29 at 06:52 AM.
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2012-09-29, 07:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2005
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- Australia
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Re: Quick Grammar Question
For me, and again this is my style, not necessarily a formal style rule, I would do different things for the following phrases (this is assuming we want to put the person's name after cradle, not before the quote entirely):
"The cat's in the cradle."
becomes
"The cat's in the cradle", she said.
"The cat's in the cradle, with the silver spoon."
becomes
"The cat's in the cradle," she said, "with the silver spoon".
or
"The cat's in the cradle," she said, "with the silver spoon."
The latter is dependent on if I decide to quote the period or not, as that depends on context, my intent, and any potential confusion (e.g. If the next sentence starts with a word that always has a capital letter and doesn't go in a new paragraph).
"My Hobby: Replacing your soap with gravy" by rtg0922, Doll and Clint "Rawhide" Eastwood by Sneak
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2012-09-29, 01:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
Re: Quick Grammar Question
I always put punctuation outside of quotes.
You "rang"?
What do you mean, "you people"?
This was the way I was instructed in school and I see no reason to change it. I am not a grammar nazi, I won't critique how someone writes but, like most people, I can't resist the first impulse of when I see poorly written language.
Language is an art form.