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2012-10-20, 09:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
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2012-10-20, 09:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2010
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- Dublin, Ireland
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Re: LGBTAitp 27: Of Shoes, and Ships, and Sealing Wax
Turns out there was a demonstration in Dublin today for trans rights but I only heard about it now so I wasn't there.
I've never really heard of people saying "male doctors" and "women doctors". I guess people are more likely to say "women doctors" than "men doctors", but I generally hear both "male" and "female". So... dunno! I use "female".
Actually, I got annoyed at a headline I saw the other day that was "Female Garda injured in bar brawl". If it'd been a male Garda, they would have just said "Garda". It's not important that she was a woman.
Cheerfairy, Kenderwoman and Geologist by Succubus, Feminist Geomancer by Astrella, Kender Wizard by me
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2012-10-20, 09:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2011
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Re: LGBTAitp 27: Of Shoes, and Ships, and Sealing Wax
Pity. Maybe next time?
I've never really heard of people saying "male doctors" and "women doctors". I guess people are more likely to say "women doctors" than "men doctors", but I generally hear both "male" and "female". So... dunno! I use "female".
Actually, I got annoyed at a headline I saw the other day that was "Female Garda injured in bar brawl". If it'd been a male Garda, they would have just said "Garda". It's not important that she was a woman.Jude P.
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2012-10-20, 09:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2008
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- North
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Re: LGBTAitp 27: Of Shoes, and Ships, and Sealing Wax
(Warning: Some spoilers about Buffy: The Vampire Slayer)
SpoilerThe curse brought Angel's soul back and put it in charge, but did not remove the demon. This left Angel with all the grief of what Angelus (evil-Angel) had caused, which was the point of the curse. Suffering.
Essentially, the shared memory of the demon and soul meant that the people who did the curse did not differentiate between them. They wanted Angelus punished, and giving the mass-murdering psychopath a conscience by restoring another part of them to power was the most cruel punishment they had. It was revenge, not justice.
*Applause*
That was amazing, congratulations to them. ^_^Treasured Quotes
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2012-10-20, 09:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2011
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- Avatar by Kasanip
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Re: LGBTAitp 27: Of Shoes, and Ships, and Sealing Wax
Garda? (I feel like I should know what that is, but I can't seem to bludgeon my brain into telling me...)
On the whole counter-petition thing, much as I support the idea of it, I'm uncomfortable giving out personal information, so... Yeah. Is there any way to get around that?
Edit:
(As Keveak warned:)
SpoilerAh, I see. My understanding had been that it restored his memory, which, since you said they retained that, made very little sense. That's considerably more logical as far as the mechanical aspects, in that case.
Also, my understanding is that removing the demon would have been pretty much impossible in any case - is that accurate, or was it intentionally left behind?Last edited by Lady Serpentine; 2012-10-20 at 10:05 AM.
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2012-10-20, 10:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
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- Xin-Shalast
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Re: LGBTAitp 27: Of Shoes, and Ships, and Sealing Wax
Spoiler
Yeah, even that still doesn't make sense. It's too convoluted for them to have been blind in their rage and too simple for them to have been crafty enough to have done so.
Honestly the best thing to do is just smile and nod and wait until Joss Whedon isn't looking anymore and scarper.
SiuiS:
Spoiler
I didn't say anything about you making a moral argument. You're still touching upon moral philosophy where it interacts with humans and their morality, obedience to authority/moral precepts enshrined in law, and responses to the punishment of others. To fully discuss the subject, one would have to dip further into moral philosophy as well as political philosophy which I imagine would get messy quickly.
Which is to say, I don't think your statement is really possible or appropriate to rebut properly in this venue, but that a legitimate rebuttal is quite possible.
Indeed, but it didn't really seem pertinent to bring up in the first place. Also, cure is an odd word choice, because it implied either excising the causes for rape from humanity, which would make punishing rape in an attempt of debatable efficacy to deter it rather unnecessary, or managing to completely undo the social and personal ills and harm that it causes.
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2012-10-20, 10:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
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- Ashes...
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Re: LGBTAitp 27: Of Shoes, and Ships, and Sealing Wax
"It is important to draw wisdom from many different places. If you take it from only one place, it becomes rigid and stale." --Iroh
LGBTAitP! If you want to talk, learn, or have some fun, stop by!
Avatar by the lovely Lycunadari!
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2012-10-20, 10:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2005
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- Australia
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Re: LGBTAitp 27: Of Shoes, and Ships, and Sealing Wax
This was actually explained in the show. The reason they turned to dust was mystical in nature and intended to help hide the existence of vampires.
That's a pity, it was an excellent series. And quite relevant to this thread too. Other than the feminist side to it, it also dealt with some LGBT issues (such as having an ongoing lesbian relationship within the main cast which was applauded as being played realistically and not for sensationalism).
"My Hobby: Replacing your soap with gravy" by rtg0922, Doll and Clint "Rawhide" Eastwood by Sneak
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2012-10-20, 11:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2008
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- North
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Re: LGBTAitp 27: Of Shoes, and Ships, and Sealing Wax
(Still warned. :3)
SpoilerIndeed, Angelus always had the memory of Liam's (Angel's name before dying) life, Angelus just plain did not care.
Pretty sure the only way to remove it would be to kill Angel, yup! I think they did want it to stay though. I forgot it before, but they mention that the demon still experiences the emotions Angel do, so it would actually directly suffer from the curse. Sorry for forgetting that. ^_^'
(Still!)
SpoilerAs I said, I forgot the part about the demon being forced to share in what Angel feels. They were vengeful enough to cause immense suffering to Angel just to harm Angelus, not confused about the relationship between soul and demon. Sorry!
They are more blood-feud than either blind rage or crafty. The curse was made when one of theirs were killed and they worked to enforce the suffering for almost a century. Eep. ._.
Also, do not take my explanation as a gauge of how much sense it makes. I am not looking it up and am terrible at explaining stuff that I learnt from a story arch of a television series. ^_^'
Back on topic: Too bad you missed it, Kender. Maybe you could help plan the next thing the group behind it does?Treasured Quotes
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2012-10-20, 11:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2012
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- In the Final Frontier
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Re: LGBTAitp 27: Of Shoes, and Ships, and Sealing Wax
Last edited by Lentrax; 2012-10-20 at 11:18 AM.
Co-Founder of LUTAS.
For all you lesser superheroes out there.
Custom STO avatar by Durkoala.
A novella about a wizard and a rock star, cross-dimensional travel, and healing wounds neither knew were there.
Spoiler: Online stuffsLentrax has a Deviantart now, check it out!
Streaming Monday, Wednesday, and Friday at 11CST on Twitch.
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2012-10-20, 11:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2008
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- Yes, that is true
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Re: LGBTAitp 27: Of Shoes, and Ships, and Sealing Wax
D:
I thought you meant a nation of procrastinators.
I... Oh man. Oh no. That sucks. That really sucks. And... None of it means a darn thing does it? It doesn't matter a lick if anyone there supports transgender rights or made rousing speeches on the subject I every moonstruck one of them voted down what they themselves stood for.
This is phenomenally depressing.
I think he's a he right now, but
I know that DnD vamps have that problem. And ones in a lot of fiction have similar (ranging from avoiding it to being burned alive by it)... I have no idea where it started, though. Or if it's in that book (which I should read at some point ).
*Hugs*
~Bianca
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2012-10-20, 11:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
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- Xin-Shalast
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Re: LGBTAitp 27: Of Shoes, and Ships, and Sealing Wax
Spoiler
Oh, I've seen it. I just haven't seen it in a while so my memory is hazy beyond it being an example of how while I enjoy Joss Whedon, and on the whole, he's pretty good at his job, sometimes he messes up.
I mean, this is one of the bigger beefs with the man that I have, so that should say something, haha.
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2012-10-20, 11:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2005
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- Australia
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Re: LGBTAitp 27: Of Shoes, and Ships, and Sealing Wax
Angel (from Buffy and later Angel):
SpoilerI see absolutely nothing wrong with it (Joss' writing of the curse). They wanted to punish him, they didn't care that the being they were punishing was a soulless demon which was inhabiting the body of a dead man and returned the soul of the dead man to his body in order to do so, thus actually punishing the long dead man who's only crime in this case was dying.
Also, whenever Angelus returns, he mentions how much he loathed being trapped behind Angel.
"My Hobby: Replacing your soap with gravy" by rtg0922, Doll and Clint "Rawhide" Eastwood by Sneak
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2012-10-20, 12:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2008
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- North
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Re: LGBTAitp 27: Of Shoes, and Ships, and Sealing Wax
I completely forgot to respond to that part, thanks for reminding me! ^_^
As far as I know, Vampires are by folklore incapable of crossing running water by themselves. It is akin to not being able to enter human dwellings without invitation, but immersion does not seem to be mentioned often. It could have been mentioned in the book, but I do not recall it myself.Treasured Quotes
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2012-10-20, 01:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
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- Gothenburg, Sweden
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Re: LGBTAitp 27: Of Shoes, and Ships, and Sealing Wax
The reason being that that vampires represent infection and infections don't thrive in running water. For the same reason, vampires loathe salt (disinfectant) and garlic (symbol for health).
Did you know that most staples of the werewolf myth (silver, man-beast, vulnerable to wolfsbane) were invented out of whole cloth for one of the early werewolf movies (the name eludes me ATM)?Avatar by CoffeeIncluded
Oooh, and that's a bad miss.
“Don't exercise your freedom of speech until you have exercised your freedom of thought.”
― Tim Fargo
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2012-10-20, 01:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2011
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- Avatar by Kasanip
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Re: LGBTAitp 27: Of Shoes, and Ships, and Sealing Wax
There are also associations with boundaries of various sorts, as well as life and/or death directly, though that certainly played a part too. (This was actually what I ended up writing my essay on, for the most part. Fun stuff.)
And I thought that silver, at least, was more traditional, and because of the fact that it has antibacterial properties to some extent, and thus was considered something that could purge disease, as well as, depending on which type of werewolf you mean, sometimes being associated with the moon? (Also, weren't they originally killed by fire as well?)Last edited by Lady Serpentine; 2012-10-20 at 01:18 PM.
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2012-10-20, 01:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2008
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- North
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Re: LGBTAitp 27: Of Shoes, and Ships, and Sealing Wax
Ooh, interesting. I did not know that. Makes a lot of sense, although I wonder why they could not enter uninvited if they represent infections...
I do however know that at least one medieval story had a vampire harmed by a silver knife, which may be the origin of that myth. According to Wikipedia, the Wolf's Bane was often used in medieval remedies against lycantrophy, but that is Wikipedia. Not sure what man-beast refers to, though. Other than that, I think you are correct.
Could it have been The Wolf Man? It is the earliest film other than Werewolf of London, which apparently did not use those staples. ^_^Treasured Quotes
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2012-10-20, 02:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
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- Gothenburg, Sweden
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Re: LGBTAitp 27: Of Shoes, and Ships, and Sealing Wax
Avatar by CoffeeIncluded
Oooh, and that's a bad miss.
“Don't exercise your freedom of speech until you have exercised your freedom of thought.”
― Tim Fargo
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2012-10-20, 02:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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Re: LGBTAitp 27: Of Shoes, and Ships, and Sealing Wax
Nooo! That's awful! How can they let those bigots win?!
Signed. I wish I knew more people to send it to.
I think that's the benefit of having gendered nouns. We don't say "male doctor". We just say "doctor". For a female, it's "doctora". Much less confusing that way.
... I bet without gendered nouns, when someone says "teacher", they picture a female, and when they say "nurse", they picture a female too. And then when they talk about a male, they go "male teacher" and "male nurse".
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2012-10-20, 02:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2011
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- Avatar by Kasanip
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Re: LGBTAitp 27: Of Shoes, and Ships, and Sealing Wax
Teacher not so much. But 'male nurse' is definitely used, yes.
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2012-10-20, 02:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2011
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Re: LGBTAitp 27: Of Shoes, and Ships, and Sealing Wax
I think teacher starts out assumed female in elementary school, but becomes neuter once it is clear that you're no longer talking about young children.
That video was a great about-face, I really enjoyed it.This Minase Iori avatar is a masterwork by Qwernt
DS Friend Code for Pokemon Trades and such. 1549 7971 5718
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2012-10-20, 03:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
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- Gothenburg, Sweden
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Re: LGBTAitp 27: Of Shoes, and Ships, and Sealing Wax
And the same arguments were used against the abolitionists in the 19th century. But it's important to point out that there were religious people on both sides of the issue - it's not like there was a Christian monolith opposing the end of slavery and segregation. Or, indeed, LGBTA rights. In fact, I don't believe there's a Christian monolith regarding anything. Hell, we have a lesbian bishop in Sweden.
Avatar by CoffeeIncluded
Oooh, and that's a bad miss.
“Don't exercise your freedom of speech until you have exercised your freedom of thought.”
― Tim Fargo
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2012-10-20, 04:05 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2010
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- Dublin, Ireland
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Re: LGBTAitp 27: Of Shoes, and Ships, and Sealing Wax
Yes, the Gardai are the police. One Garda, two Gardai. Or "the guards".
I think it was a collection of groups, which is good. It's the five year anniversary of a woman who won a suit to be legally recognised as a woman, but there hasn't been any legislation put in place to apply that to everyone. Course, that's nothing, it's been 20 years since the courts ruled abortion was okay in case of danger to the mother and they still haven't legislated for that either, so, y'know...
-_-
Cheerfairy, Kenderwoman and Geologist by Succubus, Feminist Geomancer by Astrella, Kender Wizard by me
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2012-10-20, 04:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
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- Xin-Shalast
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Re: LGBTAitp 27: Of Shoes, and Ships, and Sealing Wax
I've heard worse.
SpoilerLike the one where women getting cranky because of PMS or their period is because they're too repressed/X to be honest with themselves about their sexual desires and/or can't deal with their biological processes that are going on and fulfilling said desires.
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2012-10-20, 04:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2008
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- North
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Re: LGBTAitp 27: Of Shoes, and Ships, and Sealing Wax
I actually meant what you were referring to by saying "man-beast". I did not catch whether you meant the "person changing into animal" part, the "Person becomes a beast in mind" part or the "Person becoming a mix of human and animal" part. ^_^'
Also, footrubs? Those are not a torture method? ._.
*Catches and stares sternly at*
Hopefully less and less people will do so. This might even be a time where the counter-petition completely levels the bigots. ^_^
I kind of like the idea of gendered nouns, but I am always saddened that it tends to be used to make male even more of an assumed standard. Also gets confusing when trying to refer to someone who is not binary or whose gender I do not know. But other than that, it can be fun.
A bit of a scary fact, in Danish you do not assume a nurse is female. The word itself only refers to females, in the manner that Stewardess or Mistress does. The male version refers to a strictly different profession. And the stigma seems to very much reinforce that. ;_;
I think the point was that the kind of arguments used (Appeal to authority, circular arguments, appeal to tradition) should not be the basis of any policy, since they can be used to support pretty much any cause. Religion is not necessarily the issue, as I think the Reverend (The speaker introduced themself as one) would probably be one of the religious people on this side.
I think the USA's Constitution or vague references to the colonist ancestor's of many Americans have been used as the basis of the argument too, actually, but I am not sure by whom. ^_^'Treasured Quotes
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2012-10-20, 04:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
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- Gothenburg, Sweden
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Re: LGBTAitp 27: Of Shoes, and Ships, and Sealing Wax
The crinos form. Neither man nor beast. In traditional legends you turn into a wolf (or bear, or jaguar, or whatever), but not a mixture of the two. Sometimes it's a very badass beast, but it's a beast.
Arguments from authority are valid as long as the person you're referring to is really an authority. Referring to Rich on the OotS universe is valid - saying that what he says goes is practically a tautology since it's his invention. If you try to refer to Rich as an authority of Aztec glyphs you are on shakier ground. Disregarding the possibility that Rich actually has done studying, of course.Avatar by CoffeeIncluded
Oooh, and that's a bad miss.
“Don't exercise your freedom of speech until you have exercised your freedom of thought.”
― Tim Fargo
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2012-10-20, 05:13 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
Re: LGBTAitp 27: Of Shoes, and Ships, and Sealing Wax
Hey all, just dropping in because I saw this I figured it might interest some of you, dunno if it's already been posted.
Related:
Spoiler
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2012-10-20, 05:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2008
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- North
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Re: LGBTAitp 27: Of Shoes, and Ships, and Sealing Wax
I see. That makes sense. The cost of creating a fake wolf or training a real one certainly would explain why the early films opted for a re-imagining.
It is, but an appeal to authority is not. Similarly to an appeal to tradition, an appeal to authority is trying to argue that something being an authority (on the subject or not) makes their information correct, rather than the merit of their information itself. It can certainly be true, it is just not a very good way to argue. ^_^
Saying that Rich is an authority and thus is more right about Aztec glyphs than either of us would actually be the Appeal to Authority. Rich being an authority on OotS because OotS is Rich's comic appeals to logic (Rich is not right because Rich is an authority, but because it logically follows).
At least, that is my understanding of the terminology. It has a chart! :3Treasured Quotes
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2012-10-20, 05:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
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- Xin-Shalast
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Re: LGBTAitp 27: Of Shoes, and Ships, and Sealing Wax
Charts. Charts make everything better.
Honestly never understood the fascination with two-spirits, though. Arguing that we should be putting people on pedestals when we're still working to get other people to view them as human always seemed... odd. Counterproductive, even. Like that one stereotype about gay men being magical singing, dancing fashionistas instead of, y'know, human beings.
Sort of reminds me of the madonna-whore dichotomy some people still have in this day and age, except it's not in one person, generally.
I admit, it feels like I'm missing something, but it usually comes off as "we should take this view and social structure that we've stitched together from several different cultures whole-sale."
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2012-10-20, 05:59 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2011