Why is the Joker still alive?

[Lord Seth]

He has killed over 2000 people by this point.

More.

Source for this figure?

[Worira]

I would imagine just a rough count of people killed on-panel or mentioned as "Oh no! The Joker killed 50 people with Joker toxin!"

[Ravens_cry]

I would imagine just a rough count of people killed on-panel or mentioned as "Oh no! The Joker killed 50 people with Joker toxin!"

Is Emperor Joker still canon? If so, it's probably that high from him killing Batman alone.

[Tiki Snakes]

From what I can tell, the number is given in a graphic novel called The Joker: Devil's Advocate.

[Axinian]

You know what?

Her is my explanation:

Its because his hair is green. They can't kill him because his hair is green.

Spoiler

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I could imagine Joker saying that.

[Socratov]

Yes but it is way cooler than this sounds. Hell, it's Neil Gaiman writing a love letter to Batman

emphasis mine
say what?

Please explain this. (live in europe so comics are not that popular and numerous here)

[FallenEco]

Looking over the history of DC, the Joker has nearly been killed, or has in fact died, so many times I think they've lost count. Not too log ago he was sporting a bullet to the head. Even after he healed the scar was there for a few issues.

Besides whenever someone gets close to (or suceeds) in killing the Joker, revenge is on the list. "Do you want the Joker coming for ya an' those closest to ya?"

[Lost Demiurge]

I've put some thought into this, and I've got a pet theory that kinda works.

So, what DOES keep average people from trying to put a bullet in his brain when he's at his weakest. Like when Batman's just knocked him off a building, onto a dumpster right across from you. This is Gotham so you carry a gun, and now's your chance. You draw and then it hits you...

Wait. What happens if you MISS? Life is gonna SUCK or be short, or both. You could be signing the death warrant for not just you but your family, friends, hell your little pet dog, too.

And if you succeed, well, then either you've been caught committing murder and are going to be locked up for it, or Batman is gonna track you down, find you, and beat you up before you're locked up for life. He's right up there and he's the world's best detective, and he does NOT tolerate killers. Even ones that go after bad people.

Oh, and there's this Harley chick, too, that's going to make sure you die slowly and painfully. She might just bear a grudge after you kill Mistah J.

And then there's this to consider... The Joker lays plans in advance. WELL in advance. Contingincies and material and minions and all sorts of things, all thought out well in advance.

Do you REALLY want to know what kind of posthumous joke he's arranged for Gotham? Possibly for the Nation? Or even the world?

So yeah. You've got the gun in your hand now, and you're looking at him, and you're shaking, and he's looking back at you and SMILING. Not saying a word, because he's been here before and he's enjoying watching the realization sink in. He's LOVING this.

And finally you put the gun away, and he smirks, and Batman hauls him off. And maybe the smirk is just a little bit disappointed. Maybe he wanted you to do it. But Batman looks at you too, and Batman's eyes tell the story without saying the word.

Batman KNOWS what happens when the Joker finally dies. He KNOWS, and he can't do a damn thing about it. And that's why he'll keep the joker alive, saving him over and over and over again.

Because that last Joke? Ain't nobody gonna top that, ever. It's a DOOZY.

And long after they're gone, you're left in the alley, gun arm limp by your side, crying tears in joy that you're not Batman. That you don't have to live knowing what awaits you when the Joker finally dies. That maybe if you're really lucky you'll never have to see it.

Then, later in the year, around Christmas a strange present shows up under your tree, to you from No clue how it got there. No signs anyone broke in. No idea how he found out YOUR NAME.

You sit there for hours, looking at it and you have never been so afraid in your life.

It turns out to be something simple and dumb, like a jack in the box or a smiley face button, and you realize that life ain't never going to be the same. Things will never be right or normal ever again.

The weak ones take their own lives. The smart ones move away from Gotham. The strong ones live with the knowledge that they almost, ALMOST did something very horrible, and that sooner or later someone stupider, or angrier, or more wicked is going to be where you were, and they won't think, and they'll pull that trigger.

And then the Joker will.

Get.

That.

Last.

Laugh.

ON EVERYONE.

[Dienekes]

Source for this figure?

The over 2000 number I believe was given in the Joker: Devil's Advocate about 6 years ago. But, I'm thinking of Emperor Joker, where he ate China. Mind you this was all undone, but I count them as murders all the same.

emphasis mine
say what?

Please explain this. (live in europe so comics are not that popular and numerous here)

Neil Gaiman wrote Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader? after Batman was "killed" in DC continuity. Essentially it revels in the Batman mythos and the character celebrating his long history by exploring many potential deaths of the character. It's quite good.

I've put some thought into this, and I've got a pet theory that kinda works.

I like it.

[Prime32]

emphasis mine
say what?

Please explain this. (live in europe so comics are not that popular and numerous here)

Neil Gaiman? Way more than comics.

Heck, there was a thread a while back asking what the requirements are to be a geek. One of them was "Must have an opinion on Neil Gaiman".

[deuterio12]

And then there's this to consider... The Joker lays plans in advance. WELL in advance. Contingincies and material and minions and all sorts of things, all thought out well in advance.

I would question that assessment. What makes the joker particularly dangerous is his chaotic and unpredictable nature, and impressive improvisation skills. Not so much long-term planning. He kinda makes up stuff as he goes along, like being in Arkhan Asylum in one moment, hearing someone badmouthing him in the tv news and promptly escaping to get retribution. No material and minions prepared before-hand whatsoever, but he can just walk into arandom bank and demand money and nobody will be insane enough to refuse, then use said money to get a bunch of fresh recruits and guns and unleash hell until bats gets him again.

More in particular, the joker has died in some "future" stories, and here's what hapened in two I rememer now:
-In the first he snaps his own neck in such a way that it looks like bats did it, meaning bats ends up hunted for murder. Nasty for bats, not so nasty for everybody else.
-In the second he actually peacefully dies of old age, expecting a last showdown with bats (that had already died by then). Again no special contigencies.

Fully agree on the "if you pull the trigger and Joker survives you're royally screwed" tough.

[Scowling Dragon]

Thats what I think too. He ISN'T a genius strategist. Hes the type of guy you say

"Joker, your trapped there is no way out!"

"Oh, what this?"

"What? NOOOOOOOO!"

The Joker in the red hood demonstrates this PERFECTLY. He takes out a bunch of guys armed with guns point blank range starting with only a glass of water.

[Dienekes]

I would question that assessment. What makes the joker particularly dangerous is his chaotic and unpredictable nature, and impressive improvisation skills. Not so much long-term planning. He kinda makes up stuff as he goes along, like being in Arkhan Asylum in one moment, hearing someone badmouthing him in the tv news and promptly escaping to get retribution. No material and minions prepared before-hand whatsoever, but he can just walk into arandom bank and demand money and nobody will be insane enough to refuse, then use said money to get a bunch of fresh recruits and guns and unleash hell until bats gets him again.

Thats what I think too. He ISN'T a genius strategist. Hes the type of guy you say

"Joker, your trapped there is no way out!"

"Oh, what this?"

"What? NOOOOOOOO!"

The Joker in the red hood demonstrates this PERFECTLY. He takes out a bunch of guys armed with guns point blank range starting with only a glass of water.

The problem with this interpretation is that there are times when the Joker actually does plan very much ahead. Just not all the time, and honestly that's what makes him so fun and dangerous, he can do both very, very well.

[Scowling Dragon]

I actualy DISLIKE when he plans ahead (More then about 2 steps).

He might as well mid chuckle just say "Alright Im ****ing with you. Im completely sane. I just thought up this persona one time, you all bought it so I said "Hey why not" so I stuck with it all these years"

[Jeivar]

-In the second he actually peacefully dies of old age, expecting a last showdown with bats (that had already died by then). Again no special contigencies.

Which story is that? I feel the proper, "official" death of the character should indeed be anticlimactic and mundane. Something that didn't cater to his self-importance. Like both deaths in Return of the Joker.

[Prime32]

I actualy DISLIKE when he plans ahead (More then about 2 steps).

He might as well mid chuckle just say "Alright Im ****ing with you. Im completely sane. I just thought up this persona one time, you all bought it so I said "Hey why not" so I stuck with it all these years"

One character suggested that The Joker is, in fact, super-sane, which is why he keeps reinventing his personality. Mind, said character was a supervillain himself.

Others have extended this to suggest that The Joker feels no remorse for his victims because he's aware of the Fourth Wall - he knows there are no consequences to his actions, that his crimes are just entertainment for readers, and that neither he nor Batman can die as long as the other exists.

[Lost Demiurge]

I actualy DISLIKE when he plans ahead (More then about 2 steps).

He might as well mid chuckle just say "Alright Im ****ing with you. Im completely sane. I just thought up this persona one time, you all bought it so I said "Hey why not" so I stuck with it all these years"

::Shrugs:: Some jokes just require more of a setup than others. That's all.

[deuterio12]

One character suggested that The Joker is, in fact, super-sane, which is why he keeps reinventing his personality. Mind, said character was a supervillain himself.

On the other hand, the only reason the Joker hasn't been sentenced to the death penalty and keeps being sent back to the Arkham Asylum is that he's considered insane.

Others have extended this to suggest that The Joker feels no remorse for his victims because he's aware of the Fourth Wall - he knows there are no consequences to his actions, that his crimes are just entertainment for readers, and that neither he nor Batman can die as long as the other exists.

Again, in some spinoff comics the joker or bats die while the other goes on (altough I can't remember the names of those comics).

Altough some searching shows an alternate reality joker that suceeded in killing his batman and then kept going after the sucessors.

[GloatingSwine]

Arkham Asylum has better security than the afterlife.

At least when people escape from Arkham someone phones the police, when they come back from the dead, which they do all the time no-one gets told.

[Anarion]

I actualy DISLIKE when he plans ahead (More then about 2 steps).

He might as well mid chuckle just say "Alright Im ****ing with you. Im completely sane. I just thought up this persona one time, you all bought it so I said "Hey why not" so I stuck with it all these years"

Even ignoring others pointing out that he might be "super-sane" or aware of the 4th wall, this would be a great setup. You'd never know if it was actually true. The joker could become "sane" for an entire comic, even several comics. But all it would take is one moment where he goes "ha!, Just kidding!" and breaks out the laughing gas and the electric shock buzzer and you'll never know if the whole thing wasn't just setup for that single moment of hilarity.

[Scowling Dragon]

Arkham Asylum has better security than the afterlife.

At least when people escape from Arkham someone phones the police, when they come back from the dead, which they do all the time no-one gets told.

ZING! Can I make this my thingy?

[Deepbluediver]

Arkham Asylum has better security than the afterlife.

At least when people escape from Arkham someone phones the police, when they come back from the dead, which they do all the time no-one gets told.

I've made repeated attempts to read more comics in recent years, and particularly after hearing about the big crossover style stuff (Civil War, Final Crisis, Blackest Night, etc) and the lack of permenant death or even seemingly any character progression turns me off every time.

I honestly wouldn't mind if a few of the big name superheroes eventually die, permenantley, or get written out of the stories in other ways. On the rare occasions we get new characters, (or even relatives/apprentices/copycats) of the old ones, they only ever get added to the ever growing roster of characters. At some point I think it's time for Reed Richards/Dr. Fate/Aquaman to retire and let the next generation take over.

For example, we've had how many Robins grow up by now? But Bruce Wayne/Batman just stays the same. Why? I loved Batman Beyond and The Dark Knight Returns!
Maybe the joker doesn't have to die, or be taken out by some one, maybe he just gets old. You'd think a lifetime of getting his face punched by Batman would lead to some long-term health problems, kind of like professional boxers or football players.
And IMO the "not guilty by reason of insanity" excuse should grow thin in Gotham after a time. (I think Cracked.com wrote something about the reality vs. the hollywood version) Plus, why keep puting him back in Arkham? He's proven time and again he can break out! I'm sure there's a few square miles of Alaskan wilderness or Nevada desert we can spare that are only populated by poisonus scorpions and hungry grizzly bears, and not THOUSANDS OF INNOCENT CIVILIANS! For a bunch of geniuses, comic book heroes sure can be dumb.

The Joker is still alive because the entire comic book franchise, from authors to editors to management, has shackled themselves to the idea that they couldn't possibly sell comic books without the same names that have been drifting around for 50 years. (because NO ONE likes originality, amIright? that's why the comic industry is in freefall and multiple webcomic artists do this as their full-time job)

And then some one tries to do something new, but they've gotta get the old baggage out of the way first, so they screw things ups for Iron Man/Green Arrow/Jean Grey/the Marvel family so badly that the next writer promptly spams the "reset universe" button as fast as they can, again!
There have been multiple interpretations of dozens of characters, and so many stories that could use new blood in them (figuratively speaking) but everything always just goes back to the same old schtick!

They can't even decently build suspense any more without threatening literally ALL OF CREATION because we all just know the entire problems gonna be solved by some one who was supposedly dead or depowered and shows up fine and dandy at the last minute! It's like, "Where the frell where you six issues ago?!?!?"

/endrant

[GloatingSwine]

The Joker is still alive because the entire comic book franchise, from authors to editors to management, has shackled themselves to the idea that they couldn't possibly sell comic books without the same names that have been drifting around for 50 years. (because NO ONE likes originality, amIright? that's why the comic industry is in freefall and multiple webcomic artists do this as their full-time job)

The mainstream comic book industry exists to service trademarks which can then be profitably licensed to make actual money from movies and toys.

That's why the same characters keep going round and round, because that keeps them as viable trademarks to squeeze.

[Devonix]

ZING! Can I make this my thingy?

Meh very much an exagerated.

[Socratov]

Neil Gaiman? Way more than comics.

Heck, there was a thread a while back asking what the requirements are to be a geek. One of them was "Must have an opinion on Neil Gaiman".

Please, don't get me wrong, I love Neil Gaiman, American Gods, Anansi boys, neverwhere, Good Omens (gateway from PTerry to Neil). I heard of the Sandman, but I was curious about how one would match that description...

[Story Time]

Are there any good, in-universe reasons why none of these things have happened?

...Charles Michael Collins.

[Eldan]

Please, don't get me wrong, I love Neil Gaiman, American Gods, Anansi boys, neverwhere, Good Omens (gateway from PTerry to Neil). I heard of the Sandman, but I was curious about how one would match that description...

Writing a love letter in a figurative sense. An entire comic written by Gaiman dedicated to showing how awesome Batman and his expanded mythology are.

Also, go read Sandman. Gaiman's best work.

[dps]

Though this does of course raise the question how the hell the Joker makes money ( and so affords to pay his minions and purchase deathtraps and the like) as his crimes always seem to be designed towards killing people and not actually make any money

I've always assumed that the Joker (and most comic book super-villains, actually) are pulling off a bunch of essentially mundane money-making crimes that we rarely if ever actually see, simply because they are mundane, and therefore not as interesting as the crazy, over-the-top schemes we see in most comics. (This is more-or-less canon for the Penguin and a few others.)

[Hopeless]

I'm wondering how long before they reveal the Joker is one in a long line of clones developed by the Illuminanti in their scheme to retain control over the world except from their point of view its Batman they're worried about since no matter how many times they resurrect their ultimate insane deterrent he keeps winning... and even though their creation keeps getting killed and then replaced nothing has changed.

This thread may be about why is the Joker still alive, just think all those years and he still can't beat the Bat...

[Ravens_cry]

I'm wondering how long before they reveal the Joker is one in a long line of clones developed by the Illuminanti in their scheme to retain control over the world except from their point of view its Batman they're worried about since no matter how many times they resurrect their ultimate insane deterrent he keeps winning... and even though their creation keeps getting killed and then replaced nothing has changed.

This thread may be about why is the Joker still alive, just think all those years and he still can't beat the Bat...

But they do have him contained. Except as part of the Justice League, Mr. Sunshine doesn't exactly leave Gotham and environs that often.