afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

[afroakuma]

So...

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this?

I'd say the tanar'ri count as Poor Unfortunate Souls, yes.

[123456789blaaa]

She had, uh, standard high-level demony powers.

I meant more what sphere of influence they had. You know, like how Orcus has power over the undead and so and SLA's and feats that represent that.

[willpell]

The Plane of Shadow was born of the mix of Positive and Negative Energy Planes; it's uniquely positioned as the border of life and death, and thus echoed everywhere such a border exists (read: everywhere). In any cosmology in which there is both creation and destruction, in any cosmology in which there is shadow, there will be an analogue of the Plane of Shadow.

I've never really comprehended why there should be a Plane of Shadow but not a Plane of Light. IMC, I solved that to my satisfaction by introducing the Plane of Mirrors (rather less limited than that described in the MOTP; it connects all mirrors, not just a small set, and the automatic doppelganger-assassin is replaced by a more general theme of alternate-reality baddies). But in the standard cosmology, it doesn't seem to make sense to me that the PEP is super-duper bright, the Astral is gray, the PMP is all colors, the Ethereal is gray, the NEP is black, and Shadow is also black. It seems unbalanced somehow. I read the first bit of the Shadowcaster chapter of TOM and it goes on and on about how shadow is the primordial force from which all light derived...leaving me going "why would they ever think this? Why not assume the same of Light with equal logic? It's not like they know what photons are..."

Er, anyway, I should probably quit rambling and ask a question. The best I have on the top of my head is this: Acheron is a Lawful-dominant plane, and Gruumsh is Chaotic. He and his ought to be miserable there, yet he's somehow managed to carve out a little fief for himself where the Lawful trait is suspended. I'm assuming that the "how" amounts to "a wizard did it", so nevermind that. My question is why? What is so interesting about Acheron that Old One-Eye would pack up and move in there specifically for the purpose of fighting a virtually unwinnable war against Lawful natives that are on their home turf there? Why doesn't he just hang out in the Abyss or Carceri, and do his gronk-gronking and plotting against Corellon in an environment which is inherently suitable to a creature of Chaos?

[afroakuma]

I meant more what sphere of influence they had. You know, like how Orcus has power over the undead and so and SLA's and feats that represent that.

That's never really made clear. It certainly doesn't help that the writer of the module wasn't tremendously creative, but what it boiled down to was the Queen of Chaos being queen of... chaos... and Miska the Wolf-Spider being... lord... of... wolf-spider fiends... so yeah.

I've never really comprehended why there should be a Plane of Shadow but not a Plane of Light.

Well, it's not the Plane of Darkness. It originates from energy's fading; i.e. it is the median between light and darkness.

Shadow is also black.

No no, it's black and white. Monochrome, one might say.

"why would they ever think this?

Arrogance.

Er, anyway, I should probably quit rambling and ask a question. The best I have on the top of my head is this: Acheron is a Lawful-dominant plane, and Gruumsh is Chaotic. He and his ought to be miserable there, yet he's somehow managed to carve out a little fief for himself where the Lawful trait is suspended. I'm assuming that the "how" amounts to "a wizard did it", so nevermind that. My question is why? What is so interesting about Acheron that Old One-Eye would pack up and move in there specifically for the purpose of fighting a virtually unwinnable war against Lawful natives that are on their home turf there? Why doesn't he just hang out in the Abyss or Carceri, and do his gronk-gronking and plotting against Corellon in an environment which is inherently suitable to a creature of Chaos?

Firstly, don't reduce Gruumsh to "gronk-gronking." Gruumsh is terrifying. He's a greater deity, which means serious power.

Gruumsh wants war. Acheron is where the war is. There are goblins there to hate, and no celestials there to mess up the war. So that's where he set up shop. It helps that it's almost directly across from Arborea, making it harder for the elves to come and gank him. On the great cube of Nishrek, the combined might of the orcish powers has established a mighty redoubt that grows fat on the spoils of war.

...or at least, that's the official position. Ancient rumors suggest that Acheron is actually the last in a series of planes in which the orcish pantheon has established their realm, having been expelled plane by plane through immense and destructive wars. Whether these rumors are founded or not, who can say...

[hamishspence]

I've never really comprehended why there should be a Plane of Shadow but not a Plane of Light.

Wasn't there a "Plane of Radiance"?

[AuraTwilight]

I've never really comprehended why there should be a Plane of Shadow but not a Plane of Light.

For what it's worth, there's a Plane of Radiance (not to be confused with the quasi-elemental plane) that exists as a counterpart to the Plane of Shadow as you're describing. It can be found in Dragon #321.

[Eldan]

Turns out they did that one already. It's a component of the boxed set Hellbound: The Blood War.

They did? Interesting. I have Hellbound. I must have forgotten that one.

[Seharvepernfan]

What happened on Arborea's desert layer? Why is it a desert?

[Arcanist]

Was there ever a race of people that ever performed Time Travel like it was no big deal? if so, where might I find them?

[Chilingsworth]

Was there ever a race of people that ever performed Time Travel like it was no big deal? if so, where might I find them?

There was, but they ended up erasing themselves from existance, so now there wasn't.

[afroakuma]

They did? Interesting. I have Hellbound. I must have forgotten that one.

You're right, I pulled the wrong file there. It's a component of Tales From the Infinite Staircase; the yugoloths gave a nearly-evolved nupperibo to the kytons, who hid it away thinking it had some value.

What happened on Arborea's desert layer? Why is it a desert?

It's unknown; Pelion/Mithardir is one of the great mysteries of the Upper Planes. It's a disconcerting place; known as the grave of forgotten pantheons, or the cairn of Titans.

Was there ever a race of people that ever performed Time Travel like it was no big deal? if so, where might I find them?

Well, I don't know about "no big deal," but there was definitely a race familiar with high-powered time travel. You can find them underground, where they'd be really interested in picking your brain. Oh, and they don't do the time travel thing anymore. It was just the once... and never, ever again.

[Eurus]

Well, I don't know about "no big deal," but there was definitely a race familiar with high-powered time travel. You can find them underground, where they'd be really interested in picking your brain. Oh, and they don't do the time travel thing anymore. It was just the once... and never, ever again.

Until, y'know. It happens again, for the first time.

[afroakuma]

Until, y'know. It happens again, for the first time.

And it'll still be the only time, every time, for all of time.

[Arcanist]

And it'll still be the only time, every time, for all of time.

Inception

OT: Seriously? On the Mindflayers have performed notable Time Travel? there isn't a race of people that perform Chronomancy or something like that?

... Another question just came to me: How did the Mindflayers actually travel in time? a Portal? Psionics? Magic?

[Sgt. Cookie]

So, the Blood war is over. How is irelevant. What happenjes next, broadly speaking?

[willpell]

So, the Blood war is over. How is irelevant. What happenjes next, broadly speaking?

Since we've already analyzed "the demons win" and "the devils win", shall we assume this scenario is more "Demogorgon and Asmodeus both remember their Intelligence scores and actually, officially call the thing off until after they've smashed the forces of Good"? (Actually Demogorgon is probably a lousy example given that he's insane; this scenario is probably more likely if Grazz't manages to curbstomp both Demogorgon and Orcus somehow.)

[ShadowFireLance]

Since we've already analyzed "the demons win" and "the devils win", shall we assume this scenario is more "Demogorgon and Asmodeus both remember their Intelligence scores and actually, officially call the thing off until after they've smashed the forces of Good"? (Actually Demogorgon is probably a lousy example given that he's insane; this scenario is probably more likely if Grazz't manages to curbstomp both Demogorgon and Orcus somehow.)

I take great Offense at that.
Demogorgon is not Insane, So much as..Preoccupied, With Himself, In a few books, His goal is to merge himself into one being, which, I expect, If he had enough High-Level Mages, He could do, at which point, He would Truely Be the Prince of Demons.

[afroakuma]

OT: Seriously? On the Mindflayers have performed notable Time Travel? there isn't a race of people that perform Chronomancy or something like that?

The Guardians would never stand for it. I'm going to regret saying that immediately, I just know it.

Chronomancy is a very rare thing. It disrupts immense forces even in small amounts, and if mishandled it immediately leads to disaster. It has powerful and dangerous opponents who would see the status quo maintained at all costs. If there was ever a race that dared culturally distribute the powers of chronomancy, we would certainly not know of them now. Or ever.

... Another question just came to me: How did the Mindflayers actually travel in time? a Portal? Psionics? Magic?

They made an unthinkable sacrifice to create a psionic storm of such magnitude that the rules of reality broke down temporarily. They harnessed the breach long enough to see safety and rushed through. The jump to the past was not planned; it was a gamble with an uncertain outcome.

So, the Blood war is over. How is irelevant. What happenjes next, broadly speaking?

Heaven trembles as the War of Good and Evil truly begins.

[Arcanist]

The Guardians would never stand for it. I'm going to regret saying that immediately, I just know it.

Oddly enough you're actually wrong here... about regretting it I mean. I asked for a Race that traveled through time and I got my answer.

Next Question: Do fixed events in time actually exist. And by Fixed events, I mean events that WILL happen all the time, every time, until the end of time.

An example of my vision of a Fixed event is the Genesis of a Race (Beginning of Time), It's Rise to Power (All of Time) and it's eventual Fall (The End of Time). OR is Time as fluid as we perceive it to be in that no event is set in stone.

[enderlord99]

Yugoloths' purpose is to keep the Blood War going. Doesn't this protect the forces of Good (by preventing Evil from being united)? Wouldn't that make their purpose be, itself, Good? How are Yugoloths Evil?

Please don't be too graphic.

[Answerer]

Next Question: Do fixed events in time actually exist. And by Fixed events, I mean events that WILL happen all the time, every time, until the end of time.

Afro's a pretty avid Doctor Who fan; he knows what you mean and has almost certainly been aware that you were looking for the Planescape proxy for Galifreyans.

Since Arcanist was so nice, I do want to hear about the Guardians. Who I'm guessing are not like Time Lords at all.

[Kane0]

Yugoloths' purpose is to keep the Blood War going. Doesn't this protect the forces of Good (by preventing Evil from being united)? Wouldn't that make their purpose be, itself, Good? How are Yugoloths Evil?

Please don't be too graphic.

The Yugoloths only do so for their own profits and interests. They couldn't care less about what the Celestials thought of their mercenary work, they just want what's best for themselves. Combating Evil isn't necessarily doing Good, it is merely opposing evil. Plenty of evil creatures oppose other evil creatures (like the Blood War in the First place).

Don't take it from me though, I'm not the authority here.

[Arcanist]

Afro's a pretty avid Doctor Who fan; he knows what you mean and has almost certainly been aware that you were looking for the Planescape proxy for Galifreyans.

Since Arcanist was so nice, I do want to hear about the Guardians. Who I'm guessing are not like Time Lords at all.

I have no idea what you're talking about

[afroakuma]

Oddly enough you're actually wrong here... about regretting it I mean. I asked for a Race that traveled through time and I got my answer.

As long as we're still referring to illithids.

Next Question: Do fixed events in time actually exist. And by Fixed events, I mean events that WILL happen all the time, every time, until the end of time.

The timestream hates major disruptions. Cause enough turbulence, and it will find a way to deal with you. Try to cross your own timestream and you'll be made aware well in advance of just how much of a mistake that is.

In theory, any event can be disrupted, which is why the Guardians are militant about particular points in the timestream; however, on many worlds, points called nodes exist at which entering the timestream or affecting it is nearly impossible and likely to condemn the fool who tries to permanent entrapment in an alternate timeline of uncertain stability. In addition, certain powerful deities can isolate local points around which chronomancy will fail.

While the exact specifics of an event may not be set in stone if the timeline needs an easy fix (and it will rush to create one, always), the timeline flows to protect history and reacts in unpleasant ways to attempts to interfere.

Yugoloths' purpose is to keep the Blood War going. Doesn't this protect the forces of Good (by preventing Evil from being united)? Wouldn't that make their purpose be, itself, Good? How are Yugoloths Evil?

Please don't be too graphic.

To put it in very simple terms, the yugoloths consider both the baatezu and the tanar'ri to be in a state of uncertain utility. They don't sustain the Blood War because they like killing or money or watching the Planes burn; they sustain it to keep the "inferiors" beating out one anothers' flaws while the yugoloths plan ways to consolidate all of Evil within their talons.

That's right: the Blood War is Evil's beta test.

Since Arcanist was so nice, I do want to hear about the Guardians. Who I'm guessing are not like Time Lords at all.

And there's the regret.

Well, Guardians are like Time Lords in that they are the self-appointed protectors of reality from the ravages of damaged time, and in turn the protectors of history. Unlike the Time Lords, they're... okay, well, there are a ton of ways in which they are not like the Time Lords, but the one I was going to go with is that they're not a race; they're just run-of-the-mill Chronomancers who have joined an order dedicated to insulating reality from paradox. They have limitations; Guardians typically need to enter the timestream to personally fix incursions from other chronomancers, and there are only so many of them available to deal with problems, so low-level chronomancers slipping into Temporal Prime for the first time aren't bothered with in the least.

The Guardians have a permanent force protecting their own origin, knowing that they are a target for chronomancers with less than noble goals for the state of time. If they detect an attempt to double (cross one's own timeline) far enough in advance, they try to get ahead of the paradoxes and notify the offender of how very much that's a bad idea. By ganking said offender back into Temporal Prime.

The Guardians don't consider themselves obligated to save anyone tampering with time from his or her fate. They are volunteers doing a pretty thankless job and there are really only so many petty idiots one can elect to deal with.

[Arcanist]

And there's the regret.

Hey, least I didn't ask it

*D&D has Time Lords*

All I needed to know. Not even going to ask how one goes about becoming a Guardian since it's relatively obvious (Just, don't break the anti-jerk law of the Universe and clean up everyone else's messes).

Another question: What would, in your opinion, be the most effective method of Time Travel?

[afroakuma]

Another question: What would, in your opinion, be the most effective method of Time Travel?

By what standard?

[Arcanist]

By what standard?

Relative point AY to Relative point BZ.

AY is current time period & current location, BZ is desired time period & desired location.

[afroakuma]

Relative point AY to Relative point BZ.

AY is current time period & current location, BZ is desired time period & desired location.

Well, chronomancers of great power have a spell known as timereaver, which has limits but goes pretty fast and can transport groups with or without the chronomancer. It's expensive, though.

There is a Krynnish artifact of immense power, the device of time journeying, which has both range and precision - in certain relative terms. The "when" or the "where" are in your control, but not both. You'd need to back up your temporal incursion with personal displacement magic, and that's not a chronomancer forte.

Under the circumstances, the best bet may well be to risk trekking through Temporal Prime via a simple timeslip spell. You'll have relative control over both where and when and a good opportunity to get a sense of why. Of course, you have to physically move along the timestream that way, but it's the accepted manner for chronomancers to get about for most of their time-traveling careers.

[Fable Wright]

Is the Temporal Prime coterminious with the Astral plane? If so, why can't you just (Greater) Teleport to the time zone you want? If it isn't coterminious, where is it, and is Time Soil the only way to get there?

[willpell]

Where are the Guardians described? Are they in 3E at all?

Demogorgon:

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I take great Offense at that.
Demogorgon is not Insane, So much as..Preoccupied, With Himself, In a few books, His goal is to merge himself into one being, which, I expect, If he had enough High-Level Mages, He could do, at which point, He would Truely Be the Prince of Demons.

One of his heads is trying to kill the other one. I'd say he qualifies as mad even by demonic standards.

That's right: the Blood War is Evil's beta test.

They seem to be doing rather a poor job, IMO....

New question: Chaonds are descended from Slaads, but their unchaotic counterparts the Zenkyri are said to descend from "unknown beings of Law". Is there any information available about those progenitors? The Zenkyri are doubly puzzling because the Fiend Folio gives us Mechaniques or whatever they're called, who are derived from Inevitables and don't get a Chaotic equivalent.

Formians, Inevitables and Modrons. Law has a lot of races that could wear its Exemplar hat depending on the needs of your campaign. On the Chaos side, we seem to have nothing but Slaads. I'm resigned to having to homebrew at least one Chaotic race to fill out my campaign's roster of 16 major Outsider races, but would prefer not to need to do two of them. Can you suggest any possible candidates?