Results 361 to 379 of 379
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2013-01-28, 04:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2012
- Location
- Colorado
- Gender
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2013-01-28, 04:55 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2012
- Location
- Colorado
- Gender
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2013-01-28, 05:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2011
- Location
- Texas
- Gender
Re: Tier System for Classes (Rescued from MinMax)
You don't necessarily have to try, or at least not to the same degree, it depends on the game you're running. My game stayed pretty close to RAW with pretty few house-rules, and the limiting factor was that the NPCs, who have had more time to establish their power, are running divinations to find those who might rise to challenge them and nip the problem in the bud, so to speak.
Having the Wizard take things like Uncanny Forethought wasn't going to stop the guys who were stopping everybody else from taking things like Tainted Scholar and Illithid Savant, by having those very things. Ofc, it didn't stop the party from finding ways by the end of the game to challenge, and defeat, these NPCs.
But there's certainly a time and a place for games where the power approaches Pun-Pun.
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2013-01-28, 07:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
- Location
- London
- Gender
Re: Tier System for Classes (Rescued from MinMax)
Does DR/epic not mean that the Tarresque counts a magic weapon? Or is that only for the purposes of overcoming DR? And why wouldn't the Tarresque just tunnel away from the Allips, who then can't follow him?
And being asleep does not mean you autofail will saves, any more than unconscious means you autofail reflex saves.
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2013-01-28, 07:38 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2013
Re: Tier System for Classes (Rescued from MinMax)
The Tarrasque's damage reduction means that its natural weapons count as epic weapons for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction, but for no other reasons, so it has no way of harming an allip (or any other incorporeal creature).
Also, I'm not really sure how the Tarrasque would tunnel, since it's SRD stats list no means of doing so. It does have its rush ability, so it could run away from the Allips if not immediately disabled.Last edited by Karnith; 2013-01-28 at 07:40 PM.
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2013-01-28, 08:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2012
Re: Tier System for Classes (Rescued from MinMax)
They're incorporeal, so there's very few things the Tarrasque can go through that an Allip can't go through easier. Moreover, it really does seem to me that the Tarrasque, as described, is incapable of retreat. Int 3 would be sufficient enough in general, but it's not just Int 3, it's an Int-3 incarnation of destruction and rage. I just feel like "retreat" is a concept its brain is incapable of handling.
Anyway, if that's your answer, fine: a Wizard 7 will have a hard time killing the Tarrasque, because it will be too busy running away.
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2013-01-28, 08:29 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2013
Re: Tier System for Classes (Rescued from MinMax)
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2013-01-28, 08:55 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
- Location
- London
- Gender
Re: Tier System for Classes (Rescued from MinMax)
This was the arguement I was thinking of:
Actually, a look at Rules Compendium:
"Epic Weapons that have a magical enhancement bonus of +6 or higher can overcome epic damage reduction. An “epic weapon” isn’t enough. This type of damage reduction is supernatural. If a creature has this kind of damage reduction, such as DR 5/epic, it also has the epic strike ability (see page 100)."
"Epic Strike
Natural weapon attacks made by a creature that has this supernatural special attack are treated as having a +6 magical enhancement bonus for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction."
So yeah, creatures with epic DR do pierce DR/Magic now.
Fair point, I thought it did for some reason...
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2013-01-28, 09:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2010
- Location
- Pacific Northwest
- Gender
Re: Tier System for Classes (Rescued from MinMax)
Nope.
Epic Strike
Natural weapon attacks made by a creature that has this supernatural special attack are treated as having a +6 magical enhancement bonus for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
Edit: Actually, you're right. The Big T's attacks would bypass DR/Magic. What I meant to say is that is irrelevant to the Allip as Epic Strike doesn't actually make them magic weapons and therefore it can't be hurt by them.Last edited by Chambers; 2013-01-28 at 09:09 PM.
"We have sent many to Hell, to smooth our way," said I, "and we are standing yet and holding blades. What more?"- Roger Zelazny, This Immortal
Avatar Image: The Great Wave off Kanagawa by Hokusai; bitmap version by me.
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2013-01-28, 09:06 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2013
Re: Tier System for Classes (Rescued from MinMax)
I actually didn't know about that, somehow; I had just assumed that "epic" wasn't the same as "magic" for this purpose. Since the Rules Compendium says thatOriginally Posted by Rules Compendium, page 64
Or am I reading that wrong? Does "strike as a magic weapon" have some other meaning?
EDIT: I was reading it wrong. You learn something new every day!Last edited by Karnith; 2013-01-28 at 11:45 PM.
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2013-01-28, 11:58 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2013
Re: Tier System for Classes (Rescued from MinMax)
They don't get more casts per day.
Also, it's not 'dead' it's just asleep. You can't kill it with wish until you've reduced it's hp to something below 0.
Also, for the guy above the post I quoted, you don't auto-fail will saves when you're unconcious, you just are always willing. So you could cast benign transposition on the Tarrasque.
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2013-01-29, 12:37 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2005
- Gender
Re: Tier System for Classes (Rescued from MinMax)
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2013-01-31, 05:16 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2009
- Location
- Michigan
- Gender
Re: Tier System for Classes (Rescued from MinMax)
Your assuming the DM doesn't change its half dozen toughness feats, and give it improved toughness
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2013-01-31, 05:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2012
Re: Tier System for Classes (Rescued from MinMax)
Damaging an unconscious target is extremely easy. Hire a bunch of guys, buy them a bunch of scythes, and coup de grace it to stupidly high nonlethal damage. It won't wake up unless some idiot casts restoration on it. Then use the Candle of Invocation.
Here, this is a full write-up of the process. It actually goes with a 3rd-level party, rather than 8th.Last edited by Answerer; 2013-01-31 at 05:19 PM.
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2013-01-31, 05:35 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2012
Re: Tier System for Classes (Rescued from MinMax)
On Truenamers
So, just out of curiousity, in a game where the truenamer is fixed to reflect how the original writer probably imagined it would work, i.e.:
- Truespeaking is a class level check modified by Int, rather than a skill.
- Base truespeak DC is 10 + level/CR.
- All truespeak modifiers are halved.
What would the class' resulting tier be?
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2013-01-31, 07:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2005
- Gender
Re: Tier System for Classes (Rescued from MinMax)
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2013-01-31, 07:18 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2011
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2013-01-31, 07:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
Re: Tier System for Classes (Rescued from MinMax)
On Truenamer:
I'd say about Tier 6, out of the box, with average optimization, it is completely pointless, and doesn't do what it is supposed to do.
It becomes Tier 4 with High levels of Optimization. Barely fills a role.
At Gate mode, it spontaneously becomes Tier 2, because its only trick relies so heavily on money and offerings. Of course it is Tier 1 if it actually is allowed to Chaingate.
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2013-01-31, 09:17 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2012
Re: Tier System for Classes (Rescued from MinMax)
Poor, poor Truenamer! I've never seen you in play, and probably never will...you were such a lost opportunity.