OOTS #897 - The Discussion Thread

[Defiant]

V's soulless body looks very creepy.

[CRtwenty]

The IFCC is completely and totally Evil. But they're just so damn polite about it I can't help but love them.

[Forrestfire]

I really liked that there were ten layers of ground in the soul-sucking panel. So minus the initial, material plane layer, it makes nine. I wonder if the IFCC is hanging in Nessus.

It may be shielded from harm for the duration of V's stay, but if Girard's Gate explodes with anything like the violence of Soon's, V's body will still be buried under tons of rock and debris. She might have a devil of a time getting out again once the IFCC release her soul.

[Kish]

I have a question, and it's possible we just don't have the entire picture, even now.

If their plan was to keep V from intervening to protect the gate, then why would it have been a waste if Xykon won their fight?

If Vaarsuvius had never come back from attacking Xykon, Roy would probably have looked for a new party wizard or sorcerer. In any case the IFCC would not have been able to yank any member of the Order out of position suddenly.

Although it is quite a coincidence that the only Order member (and familiar) they can grab, are also the ones with the knowledge to oppose destroying the Gate.

[davidbofinger]

As for the LotR: The Elves of Middle-Earth really did their best, and sacrified the most, to oppose Morgoth and later Sauron. You could argue that some of them, at times, chose a strategy of avoidance and concealment, in stead of actual confrontation. For instance Elu Thingol and the Girdle of Doriath. And if I remember correctly, the Men of Gondor might blame the Elves of Eriador, hiding in their hidden strongholds, while Gondor lay directly across the river from Sauron's forces in Gondor (I think this was part of Boromir's speech in the Council of Elrond?). But looking at the long lines of the history of the Elves of Middle Earth, they did repeatedly stand up against the forces of Evil, and sacrified their best warriors in that fight.

This might have been true at some time in the First or Second Age. But during the War of the Ring the elves are notable by their inactivity. Lorien contributes some equipment, Mirkwood sends Legolas, Rivendell offers lodging and advice, the Grey Havens send nothing as far as I can tell. Given the catastrophe they face it's a pathetic effort. Galadriel personally is one of the most powerful figures in Middle Earth, so she probably could have made a substantial contribution just on her own, but instead the elves let Gondor, Rohan, Dale, Erebor, etc. do the lifting.

[EclipseDarkSun]

I wonder if a certain liche or evil high priest numbers among their clientele? Makes me think of Wolfram & Hart :) Perhaps they can control the snarl by controlling he who controls them.

And I wonder whether the contract between Varsuvius and them will continue past this holding phase.

Could be they're just involved because they want the heroes to win, to prevent the unravelling of reality and an end to the souls they harvest and possibly they themselves. So, they've engineered a particular endgame and are moving all the pawns into place.

[Harry Leipzig]

I guessed they may pull something like this. And I figured they would lampshade how inconvenient it was for the Order. So right on both counts. So the IFCC is hanging out in the CE Lower Plane? Anybody got a guess as to why? Or they just decided to meet there. And does this mean that Sabine is CE?

And the elves in LotR were far from neutral. Lorien was sieged multiple times after the Fellowship left it, they were busy trying to keep the Golden Wood from going up in flames. While Aragorn and co. were at the Black Gate, Galadriel lead the Lorien forces to Dol Guldur and took out the walls all on her lonesome. Mirkwood was also repelling attacks, and Elrond sent his sons to marshall the Dunedain for Aragorn, many of whom died at Pelennor. They weren't passive, they were dealing with their own problems.

[Forrestfire]

Hell is Lawful, not Chaotic, but good questions all the same.

[Kish]

...Huh? There's no indication they're in the Abyss. If anything, Lee says "Hell," which is closer to the name of the Nine Hells than--

--oh, you mean because it's where Vaarsuvius' soul went when Cedric invoked the contract? Read the contract again; Vaarsuvius' soul goes to Cedric's location, not to a specific plane. If Cedric was in Celestia, that's where Vaarsuvius would go.

[Gift Jeraff]

If Vaarsuvius had never come back from attacking Xykon, Roy would probably have looked for a new party wizard or sorcerer. In any case the IFCC would not have been able to yank any member of the Order out of position suddenly.

Plus if V just popped in and died, Xykon wouldn't have seen the attack as proof that Redcloak needs to stop goofing off and get back to business.

Also, the Order not moving would've meant the Linear Guild not moving, though I don't think the IFCC could've predicted that.

[Smolder]

Nice to see Sabine again.

[EclipseDarkSun]

I wonder if O'Chul and V's teleportation away from Xykon is a variation on the fiends' summoning and carried out by them? Hmm that makes sense actually.. no point him dying prematurely before he can follow through with his contractual obligations.. Didn't think of that before.. sigh..

[Emmit Svenson]

It's worth observing that this preview of the infernal regions also serves as a not unsubtle threat hanging over V's head for the future.

The three are tormenting V with a vision of the OotS's failure, not anything as crude as fire and brimstone...this time.

The three are protecting V's body from all harm...this time.

The next visit could be considerably more ouchy. Or it could be timed for when V is in mortal danger, such as fighting, flying high above the ground, or even taking a bath.

Not only will V know at any moment the debt could be called due, but if V is honest with the others, they will have to deal with that doubt and uncertainty too.

I wouldn't be surprised if V left the group, thinking this has become too much of a liability. I wouldn't be surprised if that's what the three are pushing for.

But I think they might have plans still more diabolical left unspoken.

[Adventurer]

Wow, I'd never even considered that they were just going to hold him in Hell instead of doing all sorts of cool stuff with his body, like wreaking havoc all over the place, maybe injuring a member of the Order and having them wonder whether V has defected, setting up a titanic confrontation with Tarquin and/or Xykon and furthering their plan to seize the gate. Great anticlimax and great strip that neither really advances the story (at least not much more than the previous strip's final panel) , has any kind of character development, or contains any kind of joke!

[Obscure Blade]

Y'know, it rather looks like Hawking's description in A Brief History of Time of the effects of extreme tidal forces near black holes...

Sphagettification; I've always liked that it's an actual word.

[HandofShadows]

Major ouch on the last line.

[Forikroder]

so at this point do we call it a tie? they could take his soul while he was alive but they cant actually control him in any way

[Lossoth]

Awesome comic.

The 'shielding from all harm' is a nice touch, but presumably the fiends don't plan for V to wake up under a pile of rubble in a puddle of drool. Maybe Qarr will drag his vegetative body a few hundred feet down the tunnel before the Krackaboom...

I really hope we get a V/Sabine conversation.

[Morquard]

Wow so they're not possessing V, just taking him out of the game?

I have to say I fully expected for them to take over.

I can see how this can be helpful in some very limited situations, but going through that much trouble for all that? Maybe they're lying again. Could be they're not possessing his body now so to make him feel saver again, and not blab about the deal to the rest of the order.

But I suppose on the positive side, V now learns that Sabine is working for the fiends too.

[Kish]

so at this point do we call it a tie? they could take his soul while he was alive but they cant actually control him in any way

No, we call it a win for people who were betting that the fiends would be able to collect on the contract while Vaarsuvius was alive but unable to actually control her/his body in any way.

And a loss for the people who were insisting the contract would only be fulfilled after Vaarsuvius died, as well as any who insisted the fiends would be able to control her/his body on the mortal plane.

[Xelbiuj]

I wonder if they'll fill V in on what's been happening.

"Oh because of your little panic attack, you missed an opportunity to beat the Linear Guild, twice. Durkon died because you weren't around to help him and the Order was stuck in a phantom for hours until Elan of all people had to deduce . . . deduction is part of your job description isn't it?"

*twists the knife*

[Forikroder]

Wow so they're not possessing V, just taking him out of the game?

I have to say I fully expected for them to take over.

I can see how this can be helpful in some very limited situations, but going through that much trouble for all that? Maybe they're lying again. Could be they're not possessing his body now so to make him feel saver again, and not blab about the deal to the rest of the order.

But I suppose on the positive side, V now learns that Sabine is working for the fiends too.

I think they were teling the truth in that the main reason they made the deal with V was to ensure maximum conflict get Xykon moving and prove something to the rest of the fiend races

[Forikroder]

No, we call it a win for people who were betting that the fiends would be able to collect on the contract while Vaarsuvius was alive but unable to actually control her/his body in any way.

And a loss for the people who were insisting the contract would only be fulfilled after Vaarsuvius died, as well as any who insisted the fiends would be able to control her/his body on the mortal plane.

which is why I was saying it was a tie, the other side was right they could collect while he was alive, but incorrect that they could control her and I was wrong that they couldn't but right they could control her

at any right I was more wrong so I did lose the bet but I still remain that I was at least somewhat right

[Smolder]

Are they going to cash in the whole 20 minutes at once? Cause that's an eternity in this comic.

[MReav]

Man, being a wizard's familiar must suck. I'd say the potential for intelligence and longevity might make up for it, but all that means is that you have a deeper understanding of how badly you get treated, and you have to put up with it longer.

[Obscure Blade]

And a loss for the people who were insisting the contract would only be fulfilled after Vaarsuvius died, as well as any who insisted the fiends would be able to control her/his body on the mortal plane.

Well, they just said that they wouldn't put another soul in it. If you or V assumes that means that they can't either control V directly or control the body without a soul...well, they just saw no need to correct that assumption.

[Forikroder]

Well, they just said that they wouldn't put another soul in it. If you or V assumes that means that they can't either control V directly or control the body without a soul...well, they just saw no need to correct that assumption.

controlling Vs property without his permission would be more then they can do from where they are, unless they have some demon in position willing to play puppetmaster

I wonder if the fiends are planning to use Vs current predicament as leverage to negotiate a far worse deal

[OOTS_Echoes]

Who says they need to cash it all in at once?

Another thing. Either Gift is right and V will remember next to nothing, or they intentionally want V to know that Sabine is part of their crew.

Perhaps the fiends do not know of the affiliation between Sabine and V.. I mean it's assumed that if they were watching perhaps they say them at some point.. Or maybe Quarr said something to them. I think that IFCC do not know that they are acquainted and that what V learns will help the Order immensely.

[Forikroder]

Perhaps the fiends do not know of the affiliation between Sabine and V.. I mean it's assumed that if they were watching perhaps they say them at some point.. Or maybe Quarr said something to them. I think that IFCC do not know that they are acquainted and that what V learns will help the Order immensely.

its pretty impossible to think they pay so little attention to the LG and the OoTS they don't even know there enemies

Sabine definently filled them in last time she came home (when she reported about the gates)

[Iago]

Are they going to cash in the whole 20 minutes at once? Cause that's an eternity in this comic.

Well, it depends... the IFCC said "three minutes, six seconds for you, 20 minutes, 35 seconds for him and me."

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0667.html

So, the question is does "for him and me" mean EACH, or TOTAL?

I suspect it means each, because Lee said "my colleague is exercising his option" implying that the 20 minutes currently being exercised was Cedric's alone. And regardless, Nero still has his three minutes coming, even if Lee's time is also being used right now.