EMPIRE! Community W-B Game V: Unless You Are The Mongols

[Lord_Burch]

lt murgen we were also going to trade PILOTS for Architects (along with the listed trade you have) and since it's the round after the introduction we can do that now.

EDIT: And Logic you still down with the mercenary trade for Architects?

DOUBLE EDIT: Rizban are you raising troops and sending them to do stuff in the same round cause I don't think you can do that and I don't think you can diplomatically colonize a nation, even one that hasn't done anything. At least, that's how it worked with Nyroth. Had to invade and fight.

@Rizban He's right on both counts. Can't use anything created in the same round (includes techs and resources), and you can only diplomatically colonize a nation after it's gone NPC, which is four rounds of inactivity.

[QuintonBeck]

@Rizban He's right on both counts. Can't use anything created in the same round (includes techs and resources), and you can only diplomatically colonize a nation after it's gone NPC, which is four rounds of inactivity.

Burch, did you see my earlier post about family? Do you have anything between Dyamusan and Alice?

[Lord_Burch]

Burch, did you see my earlier post about family? Do you have anything between Dyamusan and Alice?

Sorry, I didn't. No, I have nothing yet, although I'll add a couple kids probably next turn. I'll keep you informed.

[QuintonBeck]

Sorry, I didn't. No, I have nothing yet, although I'll add a couple kids probably next turn. I'll keep you informed.

They're getting to be in their 30s already But alright, cool.

[Morph Bark]

On Technologies: Most widespread technologies from before the year 1000 in our world can be assumed to be widespread in Telluris. Cranes, I would think, would be included in that. Some exceptions there might be, such as some things the Romans had we're not quite sure they did or how they made it work, which are probably things that weren't widespread anyway, like steam engines and pumps (I'm not much familiar with pumping technology, note).

Lenses weren't invented on account of the Cur10 action actually not being used and it being overlooked on account of everyone talking about it like it had been invented. It's still in the tech list, but nobody has it. (On that note, aspi, the +2 to battle checks should be removed, though the bonus to maneuvering stays.) Straight-up bonuses for techs will also be lowered a little as other rules shall change, in particular with regards to armies.

On related note to armies (but not technology), agents are going to be slightly changed. Agents with a skillset that is purposefully aimed at an existing part of the ruleset (like colonization, claims, or battles) will only give a +1 bonus. Agents with a skillset not specifically aimed at something like that will still provide a +2 bonus to the missions they're sent on in which those skills turn out to be applicable. These rolls will be largely Luck checks. This is to prevent too many people from creating agents that give bonuses to things that are already clearly defined, as those things can already gain bonuses from technology, and give it a slight nudge in a direction that requires more thought and creativity, while still leaving the option open to use them for existing stuff.

On Minotron: Asteron informed me he won't be playing a week ago, so the region is open. In fact, Minotron is one of the things on the Qzare's mind.


I will be posting sparingly from today 'til Saturday, but more than last week, as to set up the Moonshroud Festival and post the newly crafted rules ASAP.

EDIT: And it's always possible someone's infertile, y'know. Especially with all that disease and famine going around.

[QuintonBeck]

EDIT: And it's always possible someone's infertile, y'know. Especially with all that disease and famine going around.

That's true, and I've gone that route with another aspect of the Ignato family.

[Lord_Burch]

They're getting to be in their 30s already But alright, cool.

The way I do family is I roll dice to see if anyone's born (well for the main family, anyway). I do that two or three times a round, and so for nothing's happened.

[zabbarot]

Military

There was a lot of back and forth about changing the Military rules, but I was a bit busy so I never got to throw my two cents in. First, don't add the military score to the actual battle roll. It is still used for maneuvering. Second, leaders can only keep a standing professional army equal to their Military stat. Armies beyond that will disband after 2-5 turns (whatever feels right). So now armies will be comprised of a small class of professional warriors, and hordes of militia raised for that battle.

I don't remember who suggested using the militia thing first but I worked off that a bit

[Silverbit]

Military

There was a lot of back and forth about changing the Military rules, but I was a bit busy so I never got to throw my two cents in. First, don't add the military score to the actual battle roll. It is still used for maneuvering. Second, leaders can only keep a standing professional army equal to their Military stat. Armies beyond that will disband after 2-5 turns (whatever feels right). So now armies will be comprised of a small class of professional warriors, and hordes of militia raised for that battle.

I don't remember who suggested using the militia thing first but I worked off that a bit

Ooh, I really really like this idea. This'd be great.

[Rizban]

@Rizban He's right on both counts. Can't use anything created in the same round (includes techs and resources), and you can only diplomatically colonize a nation after it's gone NPC, which is four rounds of inactivity.

I was intending to send 2,000 existing troops and raise new units to replace them, not raise and send new troops. If the way I did it isn't permitted, I'll switch it to sending 3 to 4,000 troops there instead and raise only 1,000 new troops.

The second part appears to have already been responded to by Morph.

[WaylanderX]

Tekorva
Region 17, WaylanderX
Spera in Tenebris
__

[Link to Original Rolls]

High Princess Kokuei 「As of Year 1 of the Kokuei Era　[390]」

Current Stats (Part of the Hurosha Empire):
Diplomacy: -
Military: -
Curiosity: -
Faith: -
Luck: -

Population:

Original Stats:
Diplomacy: -
Military: -
Curiosity: -
Faith: -
Luck: -

[link to Family Tree]

---

3

Region Details

Spoiler: Terrain

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Only in the depths of summer are we without snow.

Tekorva is cold land with a mountain range running through the centre of the region surrounded by large flat expanses of snow. North of the mountain range lies the frozen wastes where few dare to tread. There are three important natural landmarks of our people.

Ketazan - South of the great mountain range lies Ketazan, a snowy plains where most of what little flora and fauna of Tekorva may be found. Ketazan stretches from the south western borders of Tekorva to the Korvan river. In the south east of Ketazan is the mightiest evergreen forest of Tekorva, Tazaki where edible roots and berries may be found. Between Tezaki and the Korvan lives the Hunters as the most animals and biggest fish can also be found here. East of Ketazan are some smaller hilly areas where a few light forests and the river Torgad can be found. These hills are rarely visited, but important to the Hunters as it is their belief the Ketazan needs a year of rest every three years or the spirits will become angry. North of the small hills, beside the river Torgad is the smallest walled settlement of Tekorva, Mavorg. Mavorg is known for its strong people and most of the people assigned Hunters hail from Mavorg.

Metako - A little west of the centre, the southernmost mountain in the great mountain range Metako is the tallest peak in the region of Tekorva. Metako is located near both the Korvan river and Ketazan plains. Metako boasts the largest and most well-established city, Kyomet. Kyomet is the official capital of Tekorva. Metako is also close to the safest mountain pass to the most remote settlement Vagon, which lies beneath the north easternmost mountain in Tekorva on the outskirts of the frozen waste. Vagon is a remnant of a time when the climate was much warmer and trade with the north was not completely cut off. Thus, Metako and consequently Kyomet is incredibly important to the people of Tekorva.

Korvan - The Korvan is the biggest river in Tekorva, running from its sources in the western mountains, in front of Kyomet, slicing through Ketazan and toward the very south east of Tekorva. The Korvan has three main sources, joining the mighty Korvan at various points before the river turns southeast. The eastern source lies between Kyomet and Mavorg. This is where the fourth main settlement of Tekorva may be found, Jikag. Jikag is the smallest of the four main settlements and was initially a fishing village, however as the Jikag we know today was dug into the mountain it was discovered to be rich in various useful metals. To this day, there are mines in Jikag which supply Tekorva with metal.

Spoiler: People

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The people of Tekorva are a tall (between 7'2 and 8'4), heavily-built people with light (almost white) hair and tanned skin. Their eyes are the many colours of the sky, ranging from a deep purple of midnight to the light blue of midday and even the oranges of sunrise. They have lived in the harsh, snowy mountains for many centuries and as such have adapted to these conditions by being generally hairier and bigger than their southern counterparts.

Generally clad in furs and rarely without a weapon, the people of Tekorva are very peaceful and tend to hate violence, though not to the extent where they will actively avoid it when violence is necessary. The weapons they carry are usually decorative and ornate rather than functional with the exception of those who are assigned as Hunters who typically carry bows and arrows as well as a well-used skinning knife. Nonetheless, the average person of Tekorva practice one of the many forms of martial arts to stay fit. These martial arts tend to feature flips, sweeps and strikes of opportunity and is more decorative than functional.

Traditionally, the people of Tekorva wear their hair short, with the men growing a tail of hair which are worn in different ways to signify different things. For example, a married man of Tekorva will usually spend much time braiding and beading his hair to lie down the center of his back. Beards are common to both the men and women of Tekorva and are usually left to grow long for decoration. It is not uncommon to see a well-braided beard featuring beads with runes for good luck or coloured ribbons as a sign of wealth. Women's beards are generally wispier and softer than the men's.

((Note - Due to their large size, the people of Tekorva currently only live on average until their late thirties/early forties.))

Spoiler: Resources

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Resources which can be found in Tekorva include stone, iron and fish.

Tekorva imports rice.

Due to most people in Tekorva spending their nights in homes beneath the mountains, the cave systems are constantly being expanded. Much of this stone is used to wall outdoor areas of the towns around the bases of various mountains, however the people of Tekorva have a hard time using all of it. Surplus stone is regularly available for trade. While various metals are also plentiful, the people of Tekorva store this useful commodity for themselves. Jikag in particular is famous for its iron mines. Though food and warmth is scarce, the Korvan River provides more than enough fresh water fish for the people of Tekorva to share.

Though Tekorva is perfectly capable of sustaining itself, the people of Tekorva import rice to accompany the majority of their meals. It holds special importance to them due to positive interactions they have had with other peoples in the past. Furthermore, as Tekorva itself is largely unsuited for growing grains, this tradition of importing rice has helped greatly in balancing the diet of the people.

Spoiler: Religion

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Paganism 「Spirits」

The people of Tekorva do not have an organized religion, however that is not to say religion does not play a major role in their day to day lives. Due to their beliefs that spirits bestow good fortune upon them when content and exact vengeance when unhappy, the people of Tekorva do various things to try to keep the spirits happy. These spirits are believed to come in two broad types. The light, energetic, warm spirits and the dark, sober, cool spirits. It is believed a balance must be maintained else the neglected spirits become angry and the world becomes chaotic. Thus, a peaceful balance is of special importance to the people of Tekorva.

It is considered bad luck to be underground while the sun shines bright outside, so most of the people of Tekorva spend much of their time in walled in settlements at the bases of mountains near the flatter lands. As killing a tree or removing the dead trees would upset the balance of the forest, shade in these settlements are made of stone, bone, furs, leather and sometimes even ice. To better enjoy the sunlight when they can, the people of Tekorva lean toward shades with supports, but no walls. The only outdoor buildings with walls are the temporary structures the Hunters reside in while gathering food far away from any of the settlements.

The spirits currently are present in all things, but the people of Tekorva believe when an item has been made which is technologically revolutionary the spirits are delighted by it and make their presences stronger within the item. Thus, the proper rituals must be done before, during and after the use of such an item to appease the spirits and make the item more effective. Failure to recognize the presence and fascination of these spirits will have dire consequences.

Spoiler: Technologies

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Plate Armour technology

Spoiler: Succession

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Election among children 「The Battle of Wits」

Before the current ruling family came into existence, the people of Tekorva were far from united. The four settlements would each claim their leader were the smartest in the land and as a result, avoided speaking to each other unless it was necessary before violence broke out or the balance became upset. The first of the ruling family (who's name has been lost with time, shall we refer to him herein as the First) was not from one of the four major settlements, and had an unremarkable life until he came of age.

Upset that the people of Tekorva were not unified, the First allegedly rode to each town in tern in the depths of winter as soon as they were able to speak publicly and proposed that of all the four leaders, surely a contest could be held. The well respected members of society could vote on who won this contest and so a leader could be chosen. Seeing sense when finally prevented with it, the people of Tekorva finally agreed to the idea after forty years. By this time the First was a leader of Kyomet.

So a battle of wits took place and the First won. By how much varies depending on who you ask, but all agree the most important fact is that the First won. Happy to see the people of Tekorva finally united, they worked hard to ensure the nation would continue to prosper.

After the First died, one of his children won the battle of wits. After the leadership of Tekorva had been held by the same family for many generations, it was decided the children with the blood of the First were the most intelligent in the land, and as such to simplify matters greatly it would make the most sense if elections were among the family rather than the entirety of Tekorva.

Were our current Elder to die without producing a worthy heir, Tekorva would surely be plunged into chaos as much of the (by now much larger) population raise their hands as the most intelligent of Tekorva, therefore worthy to compete in the Battle of Wits. Perhaps even leading to civil war!

Extra notes on Tekorva and Sanctuary

Keldagrim

Region 15B, WaylanderX
__

[Link to Original Rolls]

Ambassador Helga Grimhammer and Ambassador Samu Eleljak

Current Stats (Part of the Hurosha Empire):
Diplomacy: -
Military: -
Curiosity: -
Faith: -
Luck: -

Population:

Original Stats:
Diplomacy: -
Military: -
Curiosity: -
Faith: -
Luck: -

---

3

Region Details

Spoiler: The Land

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Keldagrim, the great dwarven fortress under the mountains of Daviing,

Spoiler: Terrains

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Steep mountains and deep ravines, this craggy place looks a lot less strong than it actually is, cracks running over almost all rocks are the reason for that, but who knows what cracks are actually running deeper than a few inches?

Every now and then there is a clearing with mostly some small pools of water and some patches of grass, it was an inactive volcano after all, so the soil was fertile.
Pools of lava are also not a rare sight on and in the mountains.
Underground mushroom forest Greode, the toxins in these mushrooms are used to make special dwarven anti-toxins, some desperate adventurers who were very hungry couldnt resist to eat the tasty looking mushrooms.

There is also a small goblin kingdom, under the name of Fiddlesnarf, in exchange for peace with the dwarves, they volunteered to work for the dwarves, so that they might avoid the fate of the other Goblin tribe of Dravensnarf.

The gates to Keldagrim are huge, with doors made out of solid metal, ingenious contraptions make these doors open and close, but how is only known to dwarfkind.

Spoiler: People

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Sturdy, bearded folk, even the woman have hints of beards, but the better a dwarf's beard the finer the warrior is according to legends.

Spoiler: Resources

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On the mountains are goats roaming about, but where the real riches lie, is IN the mountain, gold and iron are most commonly found due to the work of eager young dwarfs, desperate to prove their worth to their king.
Every once in a while a small vein of Mythril is struck, but that is one of the resources Keldagrim refuses to trade.

Spoiler: Population

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A fine dwarven kingdom, yet there has never been someone who cared to count.

Spoiler: Technology

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Siege equipment and plans for some advanced weapons.
Throwing axes, optimized for sharpness and light weight.

Spoiler: Religion

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Ancestor Worship.

[aspi]

I was intending to send 2,000 existing troops and raise new units to replace them, not raise and send new troops. If the way I did it isn't permitted, I'll switch it to sending 3 to 4,000 troops there instead and raise only 1,000 new troops.

Both raising units and sending units someplace are full actions. I'd be very surprised if you could wrap them into a single action.

[zabbarot]

I was intending to send 2,000 existing troops and raise new units to replace them, not raise and send new troops. If the way I did it isn't permitted, I'll switch it to sending 3 to 4,000 troops there instead and raise only 1,000 new troops.

The second part appears to have already been responded to by Morph.

As long as you weren't planning to use the 2000 troops you raised this turn, then your actions are kosher. Your wording was just misleading. It made it seem like you were marching your brand new troops over there this round. For the records you don't need to replace your troops. Using them does not expend them. I wasn't really sure if that was what you meant or not.

[Rizban]

As long as you weren't planning to use the 2000 troops you raised this turn, then your actions are kosher. Your wording was just misleading. It made it seem like you were marching your brand new troops over there this round. For the records you don't need to replace your troops. Using them does not expend them. I wasn't really sure if that was what you meant or not.

I understand that they aren't expended. Rather, I needed to recruit another 2,000 to be in compliance with the minimum military levels required by my treaty with the Salterri Imperium. Raising those 2,000 puts me at the bare minimum, so I'll need to raise more next turn if any are lost in order to maintain that.

I'll edit the wording.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Hey folks, are there any ruler changes aside from Lyradis?

[BladeofObliviom]

Hey folks, are there any ruler changes aside from Lyradis?

Not as far as I know, but Hroar changed his title if you happen to care.

[QuintonBeck]

I understand that they aren't expended. Rather, I needed to recruit another 2,000 to be in compliance with the minimum military levels required by my treaty with the Salterri Imperium. Raising those 2,000 puts me at the bare minimum, so I'll need to raise more next turn if any are lost in order to maintain that.

I'll edit the wording.

The problem still is you're using one action to raise and send troops together which are separate actions.

[zabbarot]

The problem still is you're using one action to raise and send troops together which are separate actions.

I missed that(or more likely forgot between when I looked and posting)

but yeah, raising troops and attacking are always separate actions. But you're sending the troops as part of your diplomatic take over, and not actually fighting. So the troops aren't actually doing anything mechanical, just fluff. Roll that into your Colonization action, and it should clear the confusion completely.

[Rizban]

I missed that(or more likely forgot between when I looked and posting)

but yeah, raising troops and attacking are always separate actions. But you're sending the troops as part of your diplomatic take over, and not actually fighting. So the troops aren't actually doing anything mechanical, just fluff. Roll that into your Colonization action, and it should clear the confusion completely.

Done.white space

[Lord_Burch]

@SamBurke- You can only stabilize one region per action you spend.

[Aedilred]

Hey folks, are there any ruler changes aside from Lyradis?

I think Celero has changed rulers.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, the Bordeux entry linked to from the first page is still showing David's attributes rather than Cedrik's, not that that makes a difference in itself for the table.

[Rizban]

[snip] you can only diplomatically colonize a nation after it's gone NPC, which is four rounds of inactivity.

Went back and read through the rules again. I'm pretty sure this isn't correct. The rules pretty clearly state that you can colonize and press claims to conquer a nation through Diplomacy, even if it is run by an active player. There appear to be only two limiting factors in Diplomacy. First is that an opposed military colonization attempt during a Diplomatic colonization attempt seems to cause an automatic failure. Second is that using Diplomacy against another player requires openly declaring war on them.

I don't see anything about not being able to use Diplomacy against another player...

[TheWombatOfDoom]

I think Celero has changed rulers.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, the Bordeux entry linked to from the first page is still showing David's attributes rather than Cedrik's, not that that makes a difference in itself for the table.

Can you say that again? Oh, my tables fine, but I haven't changed to his updated link? Ah...welp...I have no idea where the new link is because no one is PMing me their new posts as I've asked. I tend to table minor updates in lieu of major ones.

[Lord_Burch]

Can you say that again? Oh, my tables fine, but I haven't changed to his updated link? Ah...welp...I have no idea where the new link is because no one is PMing me their new posts as I've asked. I tend to table minor updates in lieu of major ones.

I think he's talking about my end, not yours.

Also, I updated my actions everyone.

[aspi]

Went back and read through the rules again. I'm pretty sure this isn't correct. The rules pretty clearly state that you can colonize and press claims to conquer a nation through Diplomacy, even if it is run by an active player. There appear to be only two limiting factors in Diplomacy. First is that an opposed military colonization attempt during a Diplomatic colonization attempt seems to cause an automatic failure. Second is that using Diplomacy against another player requires openly declaring war on them.

I don't see anything about not being able to use Diplomacy against another player...

That would make playing a ruler with 3 diplomacy or less completely pointless as anyone with dip 10 could simply take you over with one roll.

Colonization only applies to regions that have never been under player control before. Claims can be pressed on NPC regions only, and only if you have a valid claim. If you want to take over a player you have to invade.

[Zap Dynamic]

When I first created Raaneka, I pictured them as a primarily Luck-based culture. When I was told about the mechanics around Luck increases I pretty much shelved this, but increasing Luck has always been an interest of mine. I've been told (repeatedly) that hosting events and performing successful secret actions will increase your luck, but hosting an event every round is not only a huge amount of work... it also either denies the opportunity for other players to host or creates poorly-attended events (oh, Zap's hosting again? Well, I *did* go to his last two events... maybe not this time).

I decided to do a little research to try and figure out how people are earning these Luck increases. Below, I include the players who receive Luck increases each round, as well as my best guess for why they received it. My hope is that we can arrive at something a little more mechanically concrete. PLEASE note that this is far from conclusive.

Round 11 Luck Increases

• aspi (Polar Expedition seems likely, but there was no action spent on this that I can see.)
• Quinton (Grand Ball)
• zab (miracle at Grand Ball)
• imperatorV (secret action)
• HisHolyAngel (lots of Faith actions? good RP? unclear)
• Rizban (secret action)
• Aedilred (secret action)

Round 10 Luck Increases

• aspi (secret action)
• Zap (Third Games)
• Quinton (Faith 5 action? good RP? unclear)
• Burch (pusdeath investigation? good RP? unclear)
• Angel (prophecy seems likely, but there was no action spent on it that I can see)
• Rizban (Faith 5 action? Good RP? unclear)

Round 9 Increases

• Angel (Summit)
• wombat (secret action)
• Silverbit (deepflame? Sulvan's Fury event? unclear)
• SlayerofUndead (starting the Canal? unclear)
• Sam_Burke (creating Dinos as a resource? unclear)
• Quinton (Faith actions? unclear)

Round 8 Increases

• Sam (Last Visitation)
• Wombat (gained Luck +2, no discernable reason)
• Chacmon (unclear)
• aspi (gained Luck +2, secret action, reason for double increase unclear)
• Tychris (Tale of Ironfang? unclear)

It looks like events and secret actions are definitely the front-runners, but it also appears that Faith actions play an important role as well. For any "unclear" listing, I assume there's a good reason that I just haven't noticed.

Has anyone else noticed any trends? For those of you who get Luck increases with any regularity, would you mind sharing some tips? Besides "host events and do secret actions," which is well-established at this point? Just trying to get into the Cool Kids Club. I am all about that kool aid.

[Rizban]

That would make playing a ruler with 3 diplomacy or less completely pointless as anyone with dip 10 could simply take you over with one roll.

Colonization only applies to regions that have never been under player control before. Claims can be pressed on NPC regions only, and only if you have a valid claim. If you want to take over a player you have to invade.

Right, I didn't say that you could colonize another player. I said you can press claims to conquer them.

Diplomacy

[snip]

Diplomatic Colonization [advanced]

[snip]

Pressing Claims on Other Countries [advanced]
A situation has arisen! Another country is without a ruler! Or perhaps they have a ruler that you simply don't like very much, while you do like their land?

In case they happen to be a player, you can stake your claim and press it in an act of war! Don't forget to send your declaration of war to them!

Unless, of course, this has been changed at some point but the rules were not updated or if it means something other than what it says...

---

LUCK!

I actually got luck increases in rounds 10 and 11, not 11 and 12.

[Rain Dragon]

On Minotron: Asteron informed me he won't be playing a week ago, so the region is open. In fact, Minotron is one of the things on the Qzare's mind.

「Rules Quote」
Unless, of course, this has been changed at some point but the rules were not updated or if it means something other than what it says...

Except, if Minotron doesn't have a player then you don't have a player to DoW to then it's an NPC nation now, right? 「You could also ask the Qzare wassup, whatcha plannin' anyway this round since I'm sure the Qzare doesn't break EMPIRE!'s rules.」

I'm confused as to why there is confusion.

[Rizban]

Except, if Minotron doesn't have a player then you don't have a player to DoW to then it's an NPC nation now, right? 「You could also ask the Qzare wassup, whatcha plannin' anyway this round since I'm sure the Qzare doesn't break EMPIRE!'s rules.」

I'm confused as to why there is confusion.

So am I...

[QuintonBeck]

Right, I didn't say that you could colonize another player. I said you can press claims to conquer them.

Unless, of course, this has been changed at some point but the rules were not updated or if it means something other than what it says...

I actually got luck increases in rounds 10 and 11, not 11 and 12.

You underlined your own counterpoint there "An act of war" which is always Military. I'm not sure what the point of having it under Diplomacy is, but if you're going to war that's a Military venture always. I suppose you could claim a rightful claim and then go to war as two separate actions, maybe giving a boost to stabilization afterwards or something, but the point is you're going to war and that means a Military action to do so.

Also, the Minotine will probably raise militia to oppose your 2,000 troops.