Settings where humans aren't 'The Mario'

[Jeivar]

I was just wondering. It seems in almost every setting with non-human races we humies are the baseline; Neither great nor terrible at anything. The other races usually differ by having some speciality at the cost of a weakness in something else. Dwarves are tough but short and inelegant, vulcans are strong and smart but so inherently wild they must suppress all emotion, etc.

This does sometimes seem rather unimaginative. What are the exceptions to this rule? Where humans are, say, stronger than the other peoples? Or more able to learn magic? Or more mentally tough? Or with more stamina? Whatever.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I was just wondering. It seems in almost every setting with non-human races we humies are the baseline; Neither great nor terrible at anything. The other races usually differ by having some speciality at the cost of a weakness in something else. Dwarves are tough but short and inelegant, vulcans are strong and smart but so inherently wild they must suppress all emotion, etc.

This does sometimes seem rather unimaginative. What are the exceptions to this rule? Where humans are, say, stronger than the other peoples? Or more able to learn magic? Or more mentally tough? Or with more stamina? Whatever.

First one that sprang to mind is the Death Gate Cycle, where the humans are the only ones that can learn spell-casting magic. The elves can only enchant items. The dwarves get the short end of the powers stick, and closest to what you would call "the Mario" in this context, although they are the most resilient of the three races (which means they get put in the worst places, so they don't fare all that well, all in all).

Grey Wolf

[Terraoblivion]

It's pretty common for space-based 4x games to have humans as the diplomatic species. You know, because we have such a good track record of staying friends with each other here on Earth.

[Cikomyr]

It's pretty common for space-based 4x games to have humans as the diplomatic species. You know, because we have such a good track record of staying friends with each other here on Earth.

I think you confuse "Diplomacy" with "Making peace and being friends"

In fact, diplomacy of the highest order would most likely be a requirement of the internal politics of any genuine warlike specie that has any form of cunning intelligence. Otherwise the strongest would always be ganged up.

[BannedInSchool]

It's pretty common for space-based 4x games to have humans as the diplomatic species. You know, because we have such a good track record of staying friends with each other here on Earth.

"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'nice doggy' whilst reaching for a rock." (misquote of someone)

[Pex]

Babylon 5

While it is true Humans are technologically inferior they are treated as equals and with respect. The Narn looked to Humans when conquered by the Centauri. Even the former enemy Minbari admire Humans for building a space station for everyone to congregate instead of a battlestation. Also against the norm, Earth joins Team Evil, technically Team Chaos. The Shadows welcome Earth enthusiastically. Humans have psionic ability.

Both sides, Law & Chaos, Vorlon and Shadow, struggle for Human acquiescence. The other races are also non-superior. Narn is conquered. Centauri is corrupted to being pitied. Minbar falls into civil war. Vorlon and Shadow are evicted. When all is done and settled, to take time to pick up the pieces, Earth is invited to join in.

[Reddish Mage]

I don't know if humans are the Mario "neither great nor terrible at anything" in most settings, let alone "every setting." In Tolkien, humans are more corruptible than other "good" races (they are also the most numerous, which seems to be a standard in fantasy and science fiction), they are also the shortest lived (also a common standard). In D&D 3e+ humans are the most adaptable and flexible and get the most flexible bonuses, though this is probably what you are getting at (it actually makes humans the best characters for many classes in 3.5). In HP only humans can carry wands and be wizards, everything else is relegated to a marginal status. In DC universe it appears humans are especially weak, in A LOT of science fiction humans come from one of the more backwater civilizations (especially anything that takes place modern day), that includes such Marvel, DC, HHGTG, MIB and so on...

It not uncommon in fantasy for humans to be the least magical race, or the most powerful civilization, or the overwhelmingly dominant species.

In the end, there is really no support to claim humans are the "average, middle of the road" species in fantasy settings.

[Ravens_cry]

I had an idea for a setting where humans in the area are the decedents of the crew of ships blown out of an eternal storm. Their culture is a mix of Age of Exploration Spanish and East India, and humans would get bonuses to sailing, gunpowder weapons, and trade related matters. They aren't even called humans, but 'The Ship People'.

[Seppl]

In The Elder Scrolls games you can choose between several human and non-human races. Non of which are average, each has a niche where they are best. Bretons (a human race) are amongst the best at magic, Imperials (also humans) are the best traders, Redguards and Nords (both humans) make very good warriors. Though it depends on taste whether you think Bretons or Altmer (High Elves) are better at magic or if an Orc (technically Orcs are Elves in TES) is a better warrior than a Redguard. They specialize in different fields, for example Bretons are good at conjurations, while Altmer are good illusionists. Also, nobody has a true disadvantage, being bad at something just means that you do not start the game with a bonus. Everyone can become great at anything. The most average race are probably Dunmer (Dark Elves), who have bonuses that help with both magic and fighting at the cost of not being great in neither area. Of course, this makes them the best at magic-enhanced sword fighting.
These things are also reflected in TES lore. There are plenty of great Breton and Altmer mages but also the occasional odd Orcish master warlock.

[Terraoblivion]

Humans are still pretty great at getting into fights over stupid **** nobody really wanted to fight over, as well as screwing up peace negotiations that both parties were determined to succeed at.

[Jayngfet]

Depends on how you'd slice it. In Mass Effect humans are considered "the big guy" of the council races, and the most aggressive race. We seem small compared to a Krogan, but those are rare and have no real noncombat presence anyway. In the novels it's impressed upon the reader multiple times that the other council races are actually afraid of humans as a group, since they fight some crazy ass fights and the only people they field in combat are the ones insane enough to volunteer to go an active warzone.

[Fjolnir]

First one that sprang to mind is the Death Gate Cycle, where the humans are the only ones that can learn spell-casting magic. The elves can only enchant items. The dwarves get the short end of the powers stick, and closest to what you would call "the Mario" in this context, although they are the most resilient of the three races (which means they get put in the worst places, so they don't fare all that well, all in all).

Grey Wolf

None of the races had "true spellcasting magic" in the Death Gate Cycle except the Sartans and Patryns. The Humans are essentially druids, while the elves are enchanters. Basicaly their magics shore up the percieved shortcomings in their natures.

[GloatingSwine]

Depends on how you'd slice it. In Mass Effect humans are considered "the big guy" of the council races, and the most aggressive race.

Not really. Humans are considered the brash newcomers who are possibly a bit too big for their boots. Where other races see humanity as having a defining trait it's ambition bordering on greed.

It's pretty common for space-based 4x games to have humans as the diplomatic species. You know, because we have such a good track record of staying friends with each other here on Earth.

That's because that's what Master of Orion did and basically every space 4x lives in the shadow of MoO2. Lost Empire: Immortals manages to not go down that route. Humans in that are the missile and drone warfare specialists.

The fantasy version of MoO, Master of Magic, actually has Orcs as the most generic race (they're the only ones who can build every city improvement and have a unit type for every slot, but their units don't really get anything special)

[huttj509]

Not really. Humans are considered the brash newcomers who are possibly a bit too big for their boots. Where other races see humanity as having a defining trait it's ambition bordering on greed.

And flexibility. Mordin has a schpiel in ME2 about how while the other races do have variation in physical and mental traits, the standard deviation in humans is much larger. This is also hanging a lantern on the "planet of the X" aliens, but it works in context.

[Jayngfet]

And flexibility. Mordin has a schpiel in ME2 about how while the other races do have variation in physical and mental traits, the standard deviation in humans is much larger. This is also hanging a lantern on the "planet of the X" aliens, but it works in context.

...which doesn't change the fact that Shepard is still undeniably larger and stronger than basically any non-krogan alien on the Normandy. Heck, if you use James as an idea of what human muscles can handle and he's easily three or four times the weight of an average Salarian and more than double an average Asari. The only thing that even comes close on the council races is a Turian, and even then it's not a win. Saren only throws Shepard around with his geth/reaper augmented arm and in gameplay Shep has no problem punching generic Turians out just like basically any non-Krogan.

Use whatever tropes you like, size is still size and feats are still feats, and material written is still material written.

[Math_Mage]

...which doesn't change the fact that Shepard is still undeniably larger and stronger than basically any non-krogan alien on the Normandy. Heck, if you use James as an idea of what human muscles can handle and he's easily three or four times the weight of an average Salarian and more than double an average Asari. The only thing that even comes close on the council races is a Turian, and even then it's not a win. Saren only throws Shepard around with his geth/reaper augmented arm and in gameplay Shep has no problem punching generic Turians out just like basically any non-Krogan.

Use whatever tropes you like, size is still size and feats are still feats, and material written is still material written.

I think GS was interpreting your "the big guy" remark as applying to humans' collective power relative to council races, rather than to individual humans' size, since the rest of your comment was directed at humans as a collective. That's how I read your comment, anyway.

[TeChameleon]

Alan Dean Foster's Damned Trilogy goes out of its way to subvert the humans-are-boring trope- in that, humans are one of the only species that are capable of conceiving of violence against other people, much less actually doing harm to other sentient beings. It makes them... rather dangerous.

And as an aside, I've been tinkering with a story 'verse where humans are the biggest, fastest, strongest and deadliest species by at least an order of magnitude... and have no idea whatsoever that they are, and their expectations of what they'll find has been formed by science fiction. It's a fun little plot bunny to play with- can you imagine going out into the universe expecting H.R. Giger and finding nothing but things that would think that Smurfs were terrifying?

[An Enemy Spy]

Alan Dean Foster's Damned Trilogy goes out of its way to subvert the humans-are-boring trope- in that, humans are one of the only species that are capable of conceiving of violence against other people, much less actually doing harm to other sentient beings. It makes them... rather dangerous.

And as an aside, I've been tinkering with a story 'verse where humans are the biggest, fastest, strongest and deadliest species by at least an order of magnitude... and have no idea whatsoever that they are, and their expectations of what they'll find has been formed by science fiction. It's a fun little plot bunny to play with- can you imagine going out into the universe expecting H.R. Giger and finding nothing but things that would think that Smurfs were terrifying?

That's not a terrible idea. You could have a story from the alien perspective where the humans are the terrifying, utterly inscrutable alien menace who can't be stopped by any conventional means. And who knows how many of them are out there? Dun dun dun.

[Hyena]

That's not a terrible idea. You could have a story from the alien perspective where the humans are the terrifying, utterly inscrutable alien menace who can't be stopped by any conventional means. And who knows how many of them are out there? Dun dun dun.

I couldn't resist.

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[Eldan]

Depends on how you'd slice it. In Mass Effect humans are considered "the big guy" of the council races, and the most aggressive race. We seem small compared to a Krogan, but those are rare and have no real noncombat presence anyway. In the novels it's impressed upon the reader multiple times that the other council races are actually afraid of humans as a group, since they fight some crazy ass fights and the only people they field in combat are the ones insane enough to volunteer to go an active warzone.

We also have the backstory to match. Found precursor artefacts and developed technology of our own from it, then went out and immediately won a war with the council's previous greatest warrior species, the Turians, despite them being centuries ahead of us.

Alan Dean Foster's Damned Trilogy goes out of its way to subvert the humans-are-boring trope- in that, humans are one of the only species that are capable of conceiving of violence against other people, much less actually doing harm to other sentient beings. It makes them... rather dangerous.

Evolution doesn't work like that. Aggression against outsiders is very beneficial. Predators first, then other groups, then potential sexual rivals... in a primitive species of pacifists, someone even mildly aggressive would absolutely dominate.

[Sith_Happens]

We also have the backstory to match. Found precursor artefacts and developed technology of our own from it, then went out and immediately won a war with the council's previous greatest warrior species, the Turians, despite them being centuries ahead of us.

Depends on your definition of "won." Technically the space Feds stepped in and forced a peace agreement that gave both sides what they wanted (the humans stopped opening mass relays without knowing where they go first, and the turians took responsibility for being the worst cops ever). "Gave the turians a run for their money," on the other hand, definitely happened.

[Yora]

I think in Freespace the humans and vasudans are pretty much even. Neither has any inherent advantages over the other.

[Eldan]

In Revelation Space, all the aliens shown to still exist are pretty much utterly alien.

The Inhibitors are a machine race that is only sometimes sapient and seems to consist entirely of what is called structured space-time. I.e. they are ridiculously advanced. Also quite genocidal, sometimes and not open to dialogue.

The Grubs, well, look like grubs and their social structure seems to be a bit like a hive, with one central intelligent grub and smaller helpers. And to avoid detection, they live in near-stasis just above absolute zero.

Pattern Jugglers are marine collectives of algae-like lifeforms that cover entire planets. They dissolve any living creature that enters their ocean, then (usually) rebuild them after recording and sometimes changing their structure.

Shrouders used to be birdlike vertebrates, but it's not quite sure what they are now, as they have retreated into closed folds of spacetime to hide.

There's a few others hinted at who may be closer to humans and not quite as alien. Nestbuilders seem to be insect-like.

The humans are, well, humans. Though well on their way to transhumanity, with some moving onto hive minds.


So yeah. Good look comparing humans to the others, here.

[Moak]

That's not a terrible idea. You could have a story from the alien perspective where the humans are the terrifying, utterly inscrutable alien menace who can't be stopped by any conventional means. And who knows how many of them are out there? Dun dun dun.

Sentry, a short story by F.Brown, tells exactly this...

Spoiler: All the short here

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He was wet and muddy and hungry and cold and he was fifty thousand light-years from home.
A strange blue sun gave light, and gravity, twice what he was used to, made every movement difficult.
But in tens of thousands of years this part of war hadn't changed. The flyboys were fine with their sleek spaceships and their fancy weapons. When the chips are down, though, it was still the foot soldier, the infantry, that had to take the ground and hold it, foot by bloody foot. Like this damned planet of a star he's never heard of until they'd landed him there. And now it was sacred ground because the aliens were there too. The aliens, the only other intelligent race in the Galaxy...cruel, hideous and repulsive monsters.
Contact had been made with them near the centre of the Galaxy, after the slow, difficult colonization of a dozen thousand planets; and it had been war at sight; they'd shot without even trying to negotiate, or to make peace.
Now, planet by bitter planet, it was being fought out.
He was wet and muddy and hungry and cold, and the day was raw with a high wind that hurt his eyes. But the aliens were trying to infiltrate and every sentry post was vital.
He stayed alert, gun ready. Fifty thousand light-years from home, fighting on a strange world and wondering if he'd ever live to see home again.
And then he saw one of them crawling toward him. He drew a bead and fired. The alien made that strange horrible sound they all make, then lay still.
He shuddered at the sound and sight of the alien lying there. One ought to be able to get used to them after a while, but he'd never been able to. Such repulsive creatures they were, with only two arms and two legs, ghastly white skins and no scales.

[Gnoman]

There's Harry Turtledove's Worldwar series (including the Colonization Books and Homeward Bound) where humans are the outlier of known species, being the only mammal. Humans in this setting advance preposterously quickly by alien standards, have a talent for deception that boggles all other species, and

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are so stubborn that, refusing to accept impossibilities, they develop FTL drives long before the Race was even willing to accept they were possible.

[Brother Oni]

Alan Dean Foster's Damned Trilogy goes out of its way to subvert the humans-are-boring trope- in that, humans are one of the only species that are capable of conceiving of violence against other people, much less actually doing harm to other sentient beings. It makes them... rather dangerous.

Also by Alan Dean Foster is the With Friends Like These short story where humanity has been trapped on Earth by the other intergalactic races because it was so good at warfare. When a new race shows up and starts conquering all the others, a delegation goes to Earth to ask for their help - the Earth agrees but the delgation only sees a peaceful agarian society.

They leave the planet, wondering if they had made the right choice when they noticed that the Earth has broken orbit and is following their spaceship.

There's a whole bunch of TV Tropes examples (apologies in advance), Humanity is Superior and Humans are Cthulhu being the best ones.

[Dienekes]

There is a whole type of online posts Humans Are Awesome or something. Generally, they follow the pattern of humans either getting a high position or even the highest position in galactic politics by being the best at something. Whether that something is being naturally fearsome, the greatest builders, being able to adapt all technology to our needs, our ability to reproduce at an alarming rate, our military experience, turning our planets into mass producing industries, or just being insane. Some of them are pretty good.

[Eldan]

Sentry, a short story by F.Brown, tells exactly this...

Spoiler: All the short here

Show

He was wet and muddy and hungry and cold and he was fifty thousand light-years from home.
A strange blue sun gave light, and gravity, twice what he was used to, made every movement difficult.
But in tens of thousands of years this part of war hadn't changed. The flyboys were fine with their sleek spaceships and their fancy weapons. When the chips are down, though, it was still the foot soldier, the infantry, that had to take the ground and hold it, foot by bloody foot. Like this damned planet of a star he's never heard of until they'd landed him there. And now it was sacred ground because the aliens were there too. The aliens, the only other intelligent race in the Galaxy...cruel, hideous and repulsive monsters.
Contact had been made with them near the centre of the Galaxy, after the slow, difficult colonization of a dozen thousand planets; and it had been war at sight; they'd shot without even trying to negotiate, or to make peace.
Now, planet by bitter planet, it was being fought out.
He was wet and muddy and hungry and cold, and the day was raw with a high wind that hurt his eyes. But the aliens were trying to infiltrate and every sentry post was vital.
He stayed alert, gun ready. Fifty thousand light-years from home, fighting on a strange world and wondering if he'd ever live to see home again.
And then he saw one of them crawling toward him. He drew a bead and fired. The alien made that strange horrible sound they all make, then lay still.
He shuddered at the sound and sight of the alien lying there. One ought to be able to get used to them after a while, but he'd never been able to. Such repulsive creatures they were, with only two arms and two legs, ghastly white skins and no scales.

I prefer
They are made out of Meat

[Winterwind]

Just to add a few more to the list:

Fred Saberhagen's Berserker stories revolve around the notion that of all sentient races in the galaxy, the humans are the only ones aggressive enough to defend the other races from an onslaught of self-replicating drones programmed to exterminate all life.

I remember at least one Isaac Asimov short story with a similar premise, with all other known sentient races in the galaxy terrified out of their minds by the humans, because the humans are the only known intelligent life that has not evolved from peaceful grazing herd herbivores.

Tolkien's work has already been mentioned, but it's worth repeating that in it, humans are about as special as it gets, being the only ones whose souls leave this world after death (presumably to go to Eru, i.e., God), while the elves have to wait in the Halls of Mandos, in this world, until the end of time.



All told, I strongly suspect there are more settings where humans are the super-special snowflake than ones where they are "the Mario".

[Calemyr]

Mass Effect certainly qualifies here. The impression I got from the alien races in the franchise is that humans are rated with the krogan, the geth, and the rachni as the galaxy's greatest bogeymen, and the only reason humanity isn't hated like the other three is because they are capable diplomats as well. They compound being unrelenting and insatiable with the horrible sin of also being unexpectedly likable.

Does Farscape deserve a mention? The way the alien cast of the show shudders at the thought of an entire planet of Chrichton's is pretty priceless.