MASS CHAOS I: Better Name Not Found

[flat_footed]

Here I was hoping Libro has a Day and Night bane!

[Ramsus]

Aventine, you voting for me is just going to risk getting the doctor killed and you're claiming that's a reason I'm suspicious?

ThePhantom again.

[Aventine]

There is plenty of time left in the day, I'm not risking anything. But if you keep avoiding either giving reasons for things you do or answering questions, and instead merely try to mislead and misdirect, then I am only going to get more convinced that voting for you was the right decision.

[ThePhantom]

Ma-Mia, I had no idea about all this. Well, it was fun, but it looks like I'ma out of 1ups.

[Logic]

I'd like to make it clear, I don't believe Libro.

[Ramsus]

And you don't believe him.... why?

[Logic]

And you don't believe him.... why?

His play doesn't match up with his claim. If he could double bane, the chances that he would have protected someone that was also targeted by wolves is much greater.

Additionally, he hasn't made a reasonable claim that found a wolf yet. So far, it reeks of the inevitable bussing strategy.

If he wants to declare his bane targets, that might sway me, but for now, I feel that Libro is most likely a wolf.

[Xihirli]

I will vote for ThePhantom and ThePhantom.

[Grand Arbiter]

Aventine, you voting for me is just going to risk getting the doctor killed and you're claiming that's a reason I'm suspicious?

...how does voting for you risk me getting killed?
Do you have a beast-type effect that kills one or more people who voted for you?

His play doesn't match up with his claim. If he could double bane, the chances that he would have protected someone that was also targeted by wolves is much greater.

Additionally, he hasn't made a reasonable claim that found a wolf yet. So far, it reeks of the inevitable bussing strategy.

If he wants to declare his bane targets, that might sway me, but for now, I feel that Libro is most likely a wolf.

It took me time to secure my double bane, I started off with the standard bane power.

PSA:
If your role name happens to be madman, I believe it would be very beneficial to town if we begin communication. Shoot me a PM please.

I had to get into touch with the madman to get it, and they fortunately are not interested in offing me (yet, at least). I first got it for use on night four, and I believed I either saved myself or my secondary target with it.

Spoiler: Night 4 end post, spoilered for size.

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Night 4 Over

The night was quieter than other nights. Probably because there are fewer people alive. But through the darkness comes a singing voice.

I wonder what the townies are thinking tonight,
As home through the shadows the wander.
Every'ne shivering in horrible fear,
They stare at the void and ponder.
Whenever the wind blows this way,
You can almost hear ev'ryone say:

I wonder who the wolves will kill tonight?
What thrill are the wolves pursuing tonight?
The night time in this town, it's never been so dark.
Everyone quiet and everyone hark!

But there's nothing to hear.

Spoiler: Results

Show

No one died.

Begin Day 5

I spent a lot of time writing that song (not really), so someone better know the tune.

As for a bane list with names, I'm not giving that for safety's sake. I can't protect others 2x in a row, so it'd give the wolves a list of people to target and when they can target them.

- - - Updated - - -

Giving Eggel a firm poke due to new information that I have received.

[Ramsus]

...how does voting for you risk me getting killed?
Do you have a beast-type effect that kills one or more people who voted for you?

My thinking was that since you were the lead wagon, any vote not concentrated on a secondary main wagon is going to result in you getting lynched. Since I've got two votes and am certainly not going to vote for myself, it means those are two votes that don't go to whoever else would be the main wagon if people are trying to make me the alternative to you. It also winds up forcing me to put those votes on you to save myself if it actually seems like there's a chance I'd wind up getting lynched. Unless there are an overwhelming number of votes on me, people voting for me is bad for you since it just makes it more likely you get lynched rather than someone that isn't you and isn't me. Basically it's a sneaky way the wolves can look like they're being pro-town by not voting for you but still doing things that result in you getting lynched.

So yeah, I'm super suspicious of Aventine right now. It's just also too late in the day for me to think it's a good idea to switch off thePhantom. I really think you should switch to that wagon to increase your chances of survival.

[Logic]

I'm pretty sure in that long drawn out explanation, Ramsus is saying "hey guys, I'm really a wolf."

That doesn't mean Libro is off the hook just yet, but I trust Ramsus far less right now.

ThePhantom is just being ThePhantom and it is always hard to get a good read on him.

[Aventine]

Ramsus, by voting for you I took my vote off of Libro, which took him out of the lead. You are claiming that by making Libro no longer the leading wagon I made it more likely Libro would be lynched. Think about that for a second...


Edit: Seriously the more I re-read Ramsus's post the worse it is.

My thinking was that since you were the lead wagon, any vote not concentrated on a secondary main wagon is going to result in you getting lynched.

Except for the fact that my vote change made Libro no longer the leading wagon...

Since I've got two votes and am certainly not going to vote for myself, it means those are two votes that don't go to whoever else would be the main wagon if people are trying to make me the alternative to you.

You're not the first person to ever be the alternative to a wagon he or she didn't like. Give us reasons not to vote for you and reasons to vote for someone else instead, don't accuse the person who took Libro out of the lead of trying to sneakily get Libro killed. The Libro wagon was at two votes after I changed, your two votes alone would tie it, and you are claiming your votes were made inconsequential by my actions?

It also winds up forcing me to put those votes on you to save myself if it actually seems like there's a chance I'd wind up getting lynched.

Or, you know, do what you actually did and vote for Phantom, putting him in the lead. Or you could give us something in response to the pressure, rather than consistently refuse to give us your reasoning for past votes and current reads.

Unless there are an overwhelming number of votes on me, people voting for me is bad for you since it just makes it more likely you get lynched rather than someone that isn't you and isn't me.

I would be perfectly happy to get you lynched, seeing as how you are acting as wolfy as can be right now. Also, it looks like we are back to "changing a vote off of Libro and taking him out of the lead makes it more likely he will be lynched."

Basically it's a sneaky way the wolves can look like they're being pro-town by not voting for you but still doing things that result in you getting lynched.

Yep, taking Libro out of the lead definitely will get him lynched

So yeah, I'm super suspicious of Aventine right now. It's just also too late in the day for me to think it's a good idea to switch off thePhantom. I really think you should switch to that wagon to increase your chances of survival.

At the time you made this post, Libro had two votes on him and Phantom had five. Why are you trying to pretend Libro was in the slightest danger at that point?

[igordragonian]

I vote Ramsus.
Why?
Mostly I agree with Aventine's and Logic's opinions.

Libro- I am sorry, I haven't posted too much, I am trying to post only when I have something to say- and even then, sadly I can't add too much... blame my INT stat.

[Ramsus]

I'm just going to assume both of you are wolves. I can't honestly believe you expect town to fall for a trick that amounts to "ask Ramsus what his reasoning was for doing something in the past and then claim he's talking about things as if making an argument to do what he did in the past right now and then claim he's a wolf repeatedly until we trick town into thinking he's a wolf". *rolls eyes*

It's just like incredibly sad if either of you are town and you think you're making any sense at all.

Edit: Why does someone always ninja me with the exact thing I'm claiming town should be too smart to fall for?

Edit 2: igordragonian explain to me what exactly is a convincing argument about people repeatedly badgering me specifically (and say not other people) for my reasoning behind everything and then when I answer their question they claim it's a reason I'm a wolf while saying I'm a wolf over and over with no proof other than my answering the question.

Edit 3: Seriously, part of Aventine's reasons I'm a wolf includes the fact that I basically created the alternative wagon to Libro and myself instead of claiming Libro wasn't really a doctor like Logic did and making sure Libro got lynched and not me. How is that an argument any town should listen to ever?

Edit 4: Aventine's post basically amounts to a whole lot of this...

"hey guys, I'm really a wolf."

and claiming that makes a convincing argument for me being a wolf. When anyone doing that is much more likely to be the wolf.

[Aventine]

Ramsus, see the infodump Libro gave us? I am asking for something like that. I am asking why you voted for Pelican, because it looks to me like you were bussing. I am asking you to help us catch wolves. Instead, you try to make it seem as though my vote for you will get Libro killed, when it took Libro out of the lead. You have provided no reads on anyone other than that nonsense about me. Then as soon as it is pointed out that that makes no sense you drop it and claim I am a wolf for pointing out it made no sense, and that igor is a wolf because...he agreed with me?

You want proof you're a wolf? You bussed Pelican. You tried to divert attention from that by trying to make it look as though I was trying to get the baner killed. When that was pointed out to be obviously not true you claimed I am a wolf anyway.

Edit 3: Seriously, part of Aventine's reasons I'm a wolf includes the fact that I basically created the alternative wagon to Libro and myself instead of claiming Libro wasn't really a doctor like Logic did and making sure Libro got lynched and not me. How is that an argument any town should listen to ever?

Where did I say that?

[Ramsus]

What do you mean by "bussed"? What's this about Pelican? I'm voting for ThePhantom, someone who is providing absolutely no value to town right now.

Edit: Just went back and OMG GUYS AVENTINE IS CLAIMING I'M A WOLF FOR LYNCHING A WOLF.

Also what are you even....? I claimed you and Logic are probably wolves for being wolfish as all heck. The most I claimed about igordragonian was that he was being lazy and should think a little bit harder about your supposed logic for voting for me.

Aventine what are you smoking? You removing your vote for Libro didn't ensure he wouldn't be lynched at all. He was the only person aside from Xihirli with votes on them before I voted for ThePhantom. You removing your vote did not change that situation at all. You putting a vote on me also did not change the situation at all at that point. All you did was enable yourself with the ability to side with Logic, the guy who claims Libro isn't the doctor despite an undisputed claim, in trying to get me lynched while I try and make sure Libro isn't getting lynched. Your argument about this is totally nuts.

Also lol @ you claiming people are obligated to give an info dump like Libro's when that includes a role claim. If that's a reason for voting for me you should be voting for yourself.

Right here Aventine.

Or, you know, do what you actually did and vote for Phantom, putting him in the lead.

This is you admitting full awareness that I didn't vote for Libro when if I was a wolf I would have been able to easily get away with it. Especially if I was using your wolf pal Logic's reasoning as an excuse to do it. Instead you point out how I'm not doing that. And claim I'm a wolf. Just... what even?

[ThePhantom]

I'm voting for ThePhantom, someone who is providing absolutely no value to town right now.

Ramsus, you can point at me and get me lynched, but don't say something so strong. Every villager is of value because while they may not be able to figure things out they are a key part of the game, being where the power roles can hide and a large part of keeping numbers up.

[Ramsus]

I said you're providing no value. You're not moving your vote off of an obviously anti-town for it to be. You're not defending yourself. You're not helping find wolves. You're just passively (probably) getting lynched while voting for an uncounterclaimed Baner.

To me this says you're very likely to be a wolf which has negative value to town.

Edit: My current read on the situation is that Aventine, Logic, and thePhantom are wolves. Aventine and Logic knew they had to move their votes when Libro claimed. ThePhantom figures he can get away with not moving his vote with the defense of "he's thePhantom we basically don't expect him to do anything". Logic and Aventine began going after me the moment they realized their wolf buddy was in danger, thinking they could probably convince town to do so in a game this chaotic especially when at the time Libro was voting for me. Now they're basically just flailing about hoping they can say "Ramsus is a wolf" enough times to convince people being lazy to join them without paying attention for how crazy/lacking their reasoning is.

[Aventine]

Spoiler: Long post

Show

What do you mean by "bussed"? What's this about Pelican? I'm voting for ThePhantom, someone who is providing absolutely no value to town right now.

Edit: Just went back and OMG GUYS AVENTINE IS CLAIMING I'M A WOLF FOR LYNCHING A WOLF.

Yes, I am. I believe that it is likely that at least one of you, Libro, and Phantom bussed Pelican. So I pressure voted Libro, and when he gave us something moved on to you. You have acted like a wolf trying to worm your way out of pressure rather than a villager trying to be helpful, so I believe you bussed Pelican.

You have been playing werewolf way to long to genuinely think wolves never vote for wolves, or that voting for a wolf under suspicious circumstances cannot be evidence of someone's wolfiness. That over-the-top bolded and underlined bit is transparent desperation on your part.

Also what are you even....? I claimed you and Logic are probably wolves for being wolfish as all heck. The most I claimed about igordragonian was that he was being lazy and should think a little bit harder about your supposed logic for voting for me.

Igor voted for you, stating he agreed with me, your next post opens with "I'm just going to assume both of you are wolves." Why would I not assume you meant igor?

Aventine what are you smoking? You removing your vote for Libro didn't ensure he wouldn't be lynched at all. He was the only person aside from Xihirli with votes on them before I voted for ThePhantom.

The pendant in me needs to point out that you had a vote too, so it wasn't just Xihirli and Libro. Also, what does the state of things when you voted have to do with the effects of my vote? When I changed from Libro to you, Libro had three votes, you and Xihirli had one, and Phantom had two. My change made it Libro, you and Phantom with two and Xihirli still with one. So that dropped Libro out of the lead and into a tie.

You removing your vote did not change that situation at all. You putting a vote on me also did not change the situation at all at that point.

See above

All you did was enable yourself with the ability to side with Logic, the guy who claims Libro isn't the doctor despite an undisputed claim, in trying to get me lynched while I try and make sure Libro isn't getting lynched. Your argument about this is totally nuts.

So, removing my vote from someone Logic thinks is a wolf is siding with Logic? And accusing me of trying to get you lynched "while [you] try and make sure Libro isn't getting lynched." Again, my vote took Libro out of the lead, stop trying to make it look like I am contributing to Libro getting lynched.

Also lol @ you claiming people are obligated to give an info dump like Libro's when that includes a role claim. If that's a reason for voting for me you should be voting for yourself.

If you want a role claim from me, go ahead and pressure me. If I were under pressure I would claim. In any case, I asked for information. The specific information I asked for is reads and explanation for the Pelican vote, which you will notice is not asking for a role claim. Not sure why you are focusing on that.

This is you admitting full awareness that I didn't vote for Libro when if I was a wolf I would have been able to easily get away with it.

Easily get away with it? Hell no, I would have asked why you voted for the claimed baner rather than use your two votes to try and get a different wagon started.

Especially if I was using your wolf pal Logic's reasoning as an excuse to do it.

Notice that Logic took his vote off from Libro despite not fully trusting him. So...yeah

Instead you point out how I'm not doing that. And claim I'm a wolf. Just... what even?

I ask again. Where did I say you were a wolf because of that. You claimed that since you were not going to vote for yourself, you either had to vote for Libro or off wagon. I pointed out that you took a third option, disproving your claim to only have two options. That is not the same as claiming you are a wolf because of the Phantom votes.

I said you're providing no value...You're not defending yourself. You're not helping find wolves.

You have been carefully avoiding actual wolf hunting, but you are voting for Phantom because he isn't wolf hunting? You are providing no reads or anything to convince people you are useful and town, but are voting for Phantom for not defending himself?

Edit: My current read on the situation is that Aventine, Logic, and thePhantom are wolves. Aventine and Logic knew they had to move their votes when Libro claimed.

A claim we forced...

Logic and Aventine began going after me the moment they realized their wolf buddy was in danger,

Which he wasn't when I moved.

Now they're basically just flailing about hoping they can say "Ramsus is a wolf" enough times to convince people being lazy to join them without paying attention for how crazy/lacking their reasoning is.

One of us is flailing, it ain't me.

[Ramsus]

Aventine, I'm not even going to bother responding to all that. You're going to find ways to convince yourself you're being reasonable when in fact all you're doing is assuming I'm a wolf and ignoring any evidence that presents to the contrary. There are two reasons for this. You're being stubborn or you're a wolf. Good luck convincing people you're not a wolf if you manage to fool enough people into lynching me.

But seriously town. If I die, lynch thePhantom, Logic, and Aventine.

[Grand Arbiter]

Spoiler: 1 vote for Xirhili

Show

Xihirli

Spoiler: One vote for me.

Show

Libro

Spoiler: 6 votes for ThePhantom

Show

ThePhantom

ThePhantom

ThePhantom

ThePhantom and ThePhantom

see below for #6

Spoiler: 3 votes for Ramsus

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Ramsus

Ramsus

Ramsus

Vote count as far as I can tell (not accounting for shenanigans), including this one: ThePhantom.

[flat_footed]

I don't remember that.
Anyway, you're not voting for me.

To be fair, I don't know if my vote is counting still or not.

[Grand Arbiter]

Eh, I'm tired and only looked for red text.

I'll be leaving the vote there so it's on record.

[ThePhantom]

And that large lead is why I'm not defending myself. The odds of turning this around is slim so why fill up space with useless attempts. No reason to be rude. But since you asked Ramsus

[igordragonian]

Honestly, first, I was honestly convinced by Adventine's reasonings.
Also Ramsus speak quite rudely, and it make me WANT to vote for him-
But to be fair...
Because Ramsus has challenged my azyness
Argentine making less sense- at least for my little mind's understanding.


So....
Ramsus
I am not sure it's the right thing to do... But it's the least worst I can make right now..

[Aventine]

Aventine making less sense- at least for my little mind's understanding.

Anything in particular you would like me to explain further, or will I not be able to convince you?

[Logic]

Spoiler: Player List

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Player	Died?	Role
Xihirli
ThePhantom
Thematthew
Ramsus
igordragonian
Nozza	Day 3	Trekkie
Generic-Guy
Pelican	Day 5	Fiend
Eggel
OrbitalPanic
Kish	Night 6	Animal Lover
Logic
Elenna	Night 2	Liar
Duneyrr	Night 1	Basic Villager
TBFProgrammer	Day 1	Jester
flatfooted	Day 3	That Guy
Aventine
Ramsus (again)
Thematthew (Third Party)
Libro
Generic-Guy (Other Side)
Silent_Interim	Night 3	Thrill Seeker

Spoiler: DAY 1 / NIGHT 1

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DAY 1
Pelican -> Generic-Guy (1)
igordragonian -> Silent_Interim(Logic) (1)
Ramsus -> ThePhantom (1)
Aventine -> flatfooted (1)
Eggel -> Ramsus (1)
Libro -> TBFProgrammer (1)
Ramsus -> Eggel (1)
flatfooted -> Ramsus (2)
TBFProgrammer -> Eggel (2)
Ramsus -> ThePhantom (0) TBFProgrammer (2)
Thematthew -> TBFProgrammer (3)
Kish -> Generic-guy (2)
Generic-guy -> TBFProgrammer (4)
flatfooted -> Generic-Guy (3)
OrbitalPanic -> Generic-Guy (4)
Duneyrr -> Xihirli (1)
Elenna -> Xihirli (2)
Xihirli -> TBFProgrammer (5)
*Logic REPLACES Silent_Interim
Logic -> Xihirli (3)
Elenna -> Xihirli (2) Generic-Guy (5)
*Silent_Interim returns to game with brand new role
LYNCH RESULT
Ramsus would have died, but he didn't
TBFProgrammer Died
NIGHTKILL
Duneyrr Died

Spoiler: DAY 2 / NIGHT 2

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DAY 2
flatfooted -> Xihirli (1)
Kish -> Xihirli (2)
Generic-Guy -> Xihirli (3)
Ramsus -> Kish (1)
Silent_Interim -> Generic_Guy (1)
Pelican -> Generic-Guy (2)
Libro -> Generic-Guy (3)
Ramsus -> Libro (1)
Logic -> Generic-Guy (4)
*Eggel suspects thematthew without voting for him
thematthew -> Elenna (1)
Xihirli -> ThePhantom (1)
Libro -> Generic-Guy (3) Orbital Panic (1)
Generic-Guy -> Xihirli (2)
Elenna -> thematthew
Thematthew -> Elenna (0) Aventine (1)
Aventine -> Xihirli (3)
Thematthew -> Aventine (0) Nozza (1)
ThePhantom -> Xihirli (4)
igordragonian -> Elenna (1)
Xihirli -> ThePhantom (0) Generic-Guy (4)
Ramsus -> Xihirli (5)
Ramsus -> Libro (0) Xihirli (6)
Xihirli -> Generic-Guy (3) ThePhantom (1)
Ramsus -> Xihirli (5) ThePhantom (2)
OrbitalPanic -> ThePhantom (3)
Thematthew -> ThePhantom (4)
Kish -> Xihirli (4) ThePhantom (5)
Ramsus -> Xihirli (3) ThePhantom (6)
LYNCH RESULT
ThePhantom would have died, but he didn't.
NIGHTKILL
Elenna died

Spoiler: DAY 3 / NIGHT 3

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DAY 3
*Kish claims someone tried to kill him in the night
flatfooted -> Ramsus (1)
Ramsus -> flatfooted (1)
Libro -> Eggel (1)
ThePhantom -> igordragonian (1)
Kish -> ThePhantom (1)
Xihirli -> igordragonian (2)
Thematthew -> Duneyrr (1)
Aventine -> Xihirli (1)
Thematthew -> Duneyrr (0) flatfooted (2)
Pelican -> Thematthew (1)
Silent_Interim -> Xihirli (2)
igordragonian -> Xihirli (3)
Xihirli -> flatfooted (3) & flatfooted (4)
igordragonian -> Xihirli (2)
Xihirli -> igordragonian (1)
Logic -> Xihirli (3)
Ramsus -> flatfooted (5)
LYNCH RESULT
flatfooted died
Nozza autolynched
NIGHTKILL
Silent_Interim died

Spoiler: DAY 4 / NIGHT 4

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DAY 4
Ramsus -> everyone (joke vote)
Thematthew -> Pelican
Xihirli -> Ramsus (1)
Logic -> Xihirli (1)
Kish -> ThePhantom (1)
ThePhantom -> Ramsus (2)
Ramsus -> ThePhantom (2)
Aventine -> Xihirli (2)
Eggel -> Xihirli (3)
igordragonian -> Xihirli (4)
Libro -> Pelican (2)
LYNCH RESULT
Xihirli would have died, but didn't
NIGHTKILL
No one

Spoiler: DAY 5 / NIGHT 5

Show

DAY 5
Thematthew -> Pelican (1)
Generic-Guy -> Pelican (2)
Ramsus -> Pelican (3)
Kish -> OrbitalPanic (1)
Libro -> Pelican (4)
Xihirli -> Thematthew (1)
Logic -> Eggel (1)
*Narrator Extends Day 5
ThePhantom -> Pelican (5)
Xihirli -> ThePhantom (1)
LYNCH RESULT
Pelican died
flatfooted was revived
NIGHTKILL
Kish Died

Spoiler: The Current Day Vote Record

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DAY 6
Logic -> Libro (1)
flatfooted* -> Xihirli (1)
Aventine -> Libro (2)
ThePhantom -> Libro (3)
Libro -> Ramsus (1)
*Libro claims Baner
Ramsus -> ThePhantom (1)
Thematthew -> ThePhantom (2)
Aventine -> Libro (2) Ramsus (2)
Ramsus -> ThePhantom (3)
Xihirli -> ThePhantom (4) & ThePhantom (5)
Libro -> Eggel (1)
Logic -> Libro (1) -> Ramsus (3)
igordragonian -> Ramsus (4)
Libro -> Eggel (1) ThePhantom (6)
ThePhantom -> Libro (0) Ramsus (5)
igordragonian -> Ramsus** (4)

*Previously team town. Unsure of allegiance post-resurrection
**Prior vote not struck through, not sure how the rules on this work for this specific game.

[Generic-Guy]

I thinked i allready voted today...
ThePhantom

[Logic]

I think the voting tally makes Ramsus look a lot worse. Ramsus has been on every wagon that killed someone, and the day 2 wagon that should have killed ThePhantom.

His vote for Pelican was the third vote of the day and both prior player's votes were for Pelican.

We've only killed one wolf due to lynch, and our first died at night. I'm guessing either we have a vigilante (maybe the Late Silent_Interim?) or it's possible that someone vortexed the kill onto her.

ThePhantom, Ramsus and Xihirli have all survived once when they shouldn't have.

[Ramsus]

I have two votes, of course I've been on every wagon that's killed someone. Also, one of those wagons was a wolf. Meanwhile you have been on 0 wagons that led to a wolf death.