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2017-05-17, 01:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Agents of Shield VI: I am an Agent of SHIELD
Thinking about it, I'm semi-amused by how easily Ghost Rider curb-stomped every opponent this season, even though they kept under-selling his power level.
Spoiler"Can you beat Aida?"
"I dunno, she's pretty strong."
*FIVE SECONDS LATER*
"Who wants her jawbone as a trophy?"
BTW, he had some gruesome robot kills this episode. Yeesh.Last edited by Giggling Ghast; 2017-05-17 at 02:15 AM.
A father taken by time, a brother dead by my own hand.
With this work behold my grief, in Stone and shifting sand.
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2017-05-17, 09:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2013
Re: Agents of Shield VI: I am an Agent of SHIELD
SpoilerFirst, answer to the question: It's been shown (see e.g. Mack) that the Rider can temporarily make a contract with somebody else. What we don't know is what Coulson gave it in exchange for the temporary contract.
Moving on: I really disliked how they used Robbie in this episode. I feel they squandered the character's potential. I mean, I get using him - it ties the season together nicely. But... Well, let me step back.
Season starts, Daisy is on her own, we have the ghosts on one hand and the Rider on the other. Book is revealed, ghosts are destroyed, Uncle goes nuts, Rider destroys Uncle (and himself vanishes in the process). However, due to ghost-exposure, Radcliffe does brain-stuff to May, ultimately leading to the basics of Aida's intelligence; Aida then reads the Book and develops the framework for the Framework, setting off an LMD crisis and the entire second half of the season. So it makes sense that Robbie would return, so that the Rider could finish the last of the Book-related madness. It puts a nice, neat little bow on things, and it's infuriatingly contrived.
But as I said, disliked how they used Robbie. He shows up, announces that he's been going on an awesome and lonely Hell adventure and is now a gigabadass, and proceeds to curb-stomp things, even without the Rider. It feels like the writers painted themselves into a corner with the unkillable regenerating teleporting lightning-rod villain, so they just brought in their unkillable anything-killer to clean it up.
SpoilerI think he knew it was a Jemma!Bot and he was just good at acting. You notice how quickly he got his chill back as soon as Aida left. And as mentioned, the "It's all your fault" comment is so completely out of character for Jemma that it would have been obvious to anyone but Aida.
SpoilerOnce again, the bookends, and obnoxious ones at that. It annoyed me for two reasons. First, it annoyed me because it was a cliche anvil, and I don't need cliche anvils - or any other kinds of anvil - dropped on me by a late-night spy-fi program. Second, it annoyed me because it hearkened back to when Daisy was playing the lone wolf, and it was annoying and stupid when she did it then, too. I get that Fitz should be mildly traumatized by what he did in the Framework, I totally get it. But his reaction - his stubborn refusal to say anything but, "Nope, that was me, I'm a monster, the end," instead of acknowledge anything anybody says - whether it actually helps him or not - is annoying and stupid, and tying it back to Daisy at the beginning of the season only hammers that home. Ugh.
SpoilerI don't know about perfect last scene, but it was absolutely brilliant, and gave his arc closure.
From the moment we met Radcliffe, he was seeking immortality. We first met him as a black market transhumanist scientist specializing in cybernetics, which we later found out stemmed from his desire for immortality. We then found out why he wanted immortality - he wanted to save the woman he loved, and he couldn't bear to stay and watch her die. Later, he developed a rapport with Fitz, and you realize that Fitz could have been his immortality - his living legacy - if he didn't succeed. Finally, he completes the Framework, and although frustrated when he's murdered in real life, he's content to spend his eternity with the woman he loves. When she is killed, it breaks him completely. That last scene is him finally acknowledging that immortality is beyond his reach, and that it would be meaningless without the woman who motivated the entire thing. It's beautiful, and brings him to a perfect close.
Spoiler
SpoilerThere have been articles up about it. It's expected to be a TV series. I'm guessing they're airing a movie-length pilot in theaters as a big premiere event.
The cast is good, so that's something, at least.
Don't be confused by its placement at the end of this episode. It's not expected to have anything to do with AoS other than the use of Inhumans.
Spoiler: MackOne last thing. On the one hand, I get how Hope ultimately being deleted was basically the only thing that would get Mack to leave the Framework. I get that, and it was suitably heartbreaking.
What annoys me is how quickly he got over it. Gets back to the real world, and he's fine. He's chill. Hells, the way he's looking at Yo-Yo you'd think he's just about ready to make Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope.
Look at May, who still grimaces at what she did in the Framework, and was legitimately horrified when she realized her role in Mace's real-world death. Look at Fitz, who's a hot mess over it. Look at Jemma, who has a whole lot of unresolved rage issues. Dakka dakka dakka.
Now look at Mack, who just lost his daughter for a second time. And he's... Fine? Because those years he had with her are a part of him, now, so it doesn't hurt at all, really? That's some bunk right there. I could see him and Yo-Yo embracing while he sobs silently, the whole "finding comfort in her arms" thing would be totally fitting and tragic and great. Instead, it's just, "Nah, I think I can start a real family now, here, with you, perhaps, let's find a room and get on that." The tonal shift is a bit much, is my point.
Spoiler: Some Damn Fine PieOne more last thing. That last scene? Pie in a diner? Totally expecting Kyle McLachlan to show up. Way to let me down, show.My headache medicine has a little "Ex" inscribed on the pill. It's not a brand name; it's an indicator that it works inside an Anti-Magic Field.
Blue text means sarcasm. Purple text means evil. White text is invisible.
My signature got too big for its britches. So now it's over here!
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2017-05-17, 09:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2008
Re: Agents of Shield VI: I am an Agent of SHIELD
Spoiler: MackMack is grieving over something he already grieved over, and now remembers grieving over. His regrets from the framework aren't "I did horrible things" but "I lost something, my child, my family. I want a new one."
He spent years in the real world wondering what dad life would have been. Wondering what Hope would have been like, thinking about what might have been.
He got it. He got to know her, the child he had lost. It hurts to lose her again, but now instead of wondering what might have been, if he'd have done right by his daughter, what he'd be like as a dad, he knows. And he's ready to make it real.
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2017-05-17, 10:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2013
Re: Agents of Shield VI: I am an Agent of SHIELD
SpoilerSee, I can see that. I can totally see that. I just see it taking more time.
Think about how long it took the rest of the team to assimilate having lived two lives. And for the most part, they were able to dismiss some of the pain of it, with the mantra of "it wasn't real."
Mack just wakes up, sheds a single tear, and a scene later he's already moving forward. I agree that, now that he has those memories, he's ready to move forward instead of letting doubt hold him back. But I feel like it would take more time to get him there. Cramming it into this episode just feels too rushed, the emotional growth doesn't feel genuine.My headache medicine has a little "Ex" inscribed on the pill. It's not a brand name; it's an indicator that it works inside an Anti-Magic Field.
Blue text means sarcasm. Purple text means evil. White text is invisible.
My signature got too big for its britches. So now it's over here!
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2017-05-17, 10:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Agents of Shield VI: I am an Agent of SHIELD
SpoilerThis might be related to the fact that this is the final episode and they'll have him touch more on his feelings later. One could argue his rushing to start a family with Yo-Yo is because he IS grief struck. This is his method of coping, hiding it inside and trying to move on as quickly as possible. It could also be a religion thing, cause I'm pretty sure the people who've shown the most horror at the framework are the people who are pretty clearly non religious? That might just be silly though.
Another potential silly idea is that the Spirit of Vengeance consumed a lot of the pain tied to that, so while it still affects Mack, it isn't affecting him as much as it normally would because our good friend a skull ate his grief.
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2017-05-17, 10:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
Re: Agents of Shield VI: I am an Agent of SHIELD
SpoilerWhile I agree that it probably should have taken a bit more time - in the form of a single chest-beating scene to let us know it did happen - the episode was already crammed to the gills and I suspect it might have been left in the cutting floor.
However, to play's Devil's Advocate, you could argue that he did have the time: once he woke up, he recovered the memories of 10 years of dealing with the death of his actual daughter. He had, in some manner, already moved on and managed to deal with the grief in this reality, and when he woke up, all those memories and "movings on" where back in his head, after being repressed. This is not comparable to Fitz, who had never been an evil a-hole before he went into the matrix, nor May, who was never an enforcer for the nazis.
Mac was a father who had lost his daughter outside, and he just was forced to go through the whole thing a second time - but when he woke, it wasn't a shift to what he used to be, just two sets of lives going through the same trauma, time shifted by about 8 years. Instead of having to deal with the fact that, if things had gone different he'd be an evil bastard (like Fitz or May), he is just, painfully, being reminded that he could have had a daughter, and she would have been great. But he has been dealing with that pain before the matrix, just with a fresh coat of paint on it.
Grey WolfLast edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2017-05-17 at 10:28 AM.
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
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Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2017-05-17, 10:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2013
Re: Agents of Shield VI: I am an Agent of SHIELD
Just a quick note that up fronts are out, and it looks like ABC is moving the Marvel shows to Friday night (the 9/8 slot opposite Hawaii Five-0).
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2017-05-17, 11:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
Re: Agents of Shield VI: I am an Agent of SHIELD
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2017-05-17, 12:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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Re: Agents of Shield VI: I am an Agent of SHIELD
Don't think this needs a spoiler, but just in case:
SpoilerDid anyone else catch the off-hand comment from the Superior about how his body was designed "Only for Killing" One could almost say that he's a Mechanical-Organism, Designed Only for Killing, perhaps?Originally Posted by Who
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2017-05-17, 12:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Agents of Shield VI: I am an Agent of SHIELD
In all likelihood, Season 5 will be the last outing for Agents of Shield. Which is perfectly OK — the story has to end at some point, and it feels like we're nearing the point where at least some of the characters are ready to ride into the sunset.
No, I missed that! Good catch! But if you think about it, the Russian is kind of is a perfect stand-in for that character, since he's just a head now.Last edited by Giggling Ghast; 2017-05-17 at 01:11 PM.
A father taken by time, a brother dead by my own hand.
With this work behold my grief, in Stone and shifting sand.
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2017-05-17, 01:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2008
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Re: Agents of Shield VI: I am an Agent of SHIELD
Last edited by Giggling Ghast; 2017-05-17 at 01:15 PM.
A father taken by time, a brother dead by my own hand.
With this work behold my grief, in Stone and shifting sand.
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2017-05-17, 03:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2014
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- Kansas City MO
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Re: Agents of Shield VI: I am an Agent of SHIELD
Spoiler: SPOILERI believe that the team is on a spaceship/station and will make an appearance in the next Avengers. Somehow linking Guardians to what is happening on Earth. Coulson united the Avengers in death, he can unite them again in life. Granted most of the Avengers will be pissed that he was in hiding for years without saying "hi". I did not get a good look at the ships or background, could they be on the dark side of the moon with the Inhumans?So I said to myself "SELF, if I were you, and I think I am, I would be beside myself in embarrassment, so slap myself silly."
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2017-05-17, 04:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2013
Re: Agents of Shield VI: I am an Agent of SHIELD
Technically, no. That'd be the 5 slots opposite the stiffest ratings competition, which would be NCIS (where Fox moved Lethal Weapon), Bull, NCIS LA, The Voice and NCIS NoLa (where AoS spent last season). CBS Friday night is their weakest night (other than Saturday, but no one tries there any more).
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2017-05-18, 12:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Agents of Shield VI: I am an Agent of SHIELD
Friday night tends to be the place where shows go to die, because it has the smallest audience of all the weeknights (lots of people go out on Fridays).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friday_night_death_slot
That said, AoS is one of the most watched shows on DVR, so it could survive with that expectation.
Fitzbot did a good job of acting when he was a LMD.Last edited by Joran; 2017-05-18 at 12:01 AM.
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2017-05-18, 02:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2015
Re: Agents of Shield VI: I am an Agent of SHIELD
Yes? No? Whichever of these makes the most sense? The actor is that good of an actor by making Fitz not that good of an actor since I noticed his pleas were a little bit less heartfelt, more insincere, particularly towards the end. I thought it sounded like Fitz was faking it.
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2017-05-18, 02:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Agents of Shield VI: I am an Agent of SHIELD
On another note, anyone have any idea about the dimension ghost rider sling-ringed into? I have a vague feeling it might be relevant in the future.
Pokemon Mystery Dungeon D20: A system designed for adventuring in a Pokemon Mystery Dungeon world.
The Review/Analysis Thread: In-depth reviews of various games and RPG products.
The New/Redone Monsters Thread: Taking bad or bland monsters and making them more interesting and challenging.
Yu-Gi-Oh!: Realms of Myth: In the world of monsters, Winda and Wynn go on an "epic" journey to find the legendary Dark Magician.
Keys to the Contract: A crossover between Madoka and Kingdom Hearts.
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2017-05-18, 08:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
Re: Agents of Shield VI: I am an Agent of SHIELD
This. Fitz the character, is NOT that good an actor: he didn't look distressed enough, especially once the stabbing happened, and when he offered to take her to the Darkhold, he was immediately calm. It would not have fooled anyone other than an emotionally immature Aida.
GWInterested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2017-05-18, 09:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Agents of Shield VI: I am an Agent of SHIELD
Ghost Rider went to Tibet to return the book to the Sorcerers. I hope he makes an appearance in Dr. Strange 2.
So I said to myself "SELF, if I were you, and I think I am, I would be beside myself in embarrassment, so slap myself silly."
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2017-05-18, 09:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2013
Re: Agents of Shield VI: I am an Agent of SHIELD
SpoilerOn the one hand, I doubt that it will, except if the writers decide to bring the Rider back. Which they might, or might not. Even if they do, where he went may be less relevant than the fact that he left, and will return.
On the other hand, I am so glad that somebody else saw that. I was thinking "Sling Ring," but wasn't going to say anything, but... Yeah.
This show has shown a total willingness to dig through the movies' trash, and I love it. His Sling Ring portal was no exception. On a related note, I'm also onboard with the people suggesting that the space station is going to be a GoG tie-in.My headache medicine has a little "Ex" inscribed on the pill. It's not a brand name; it's an indicator that it works inside an Anti-Magic Field.
Blue text means sarcasm. Purple text means evil. White text is invisible.
My signature got too big for its britches. So now it's over here!
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2017-05-18, 09:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Agents of Shield VI: I am an Agent of SHIELD
Ghost Rider went to hide the Darkhold in the darkest pit known to man, a place so associated with vileness and depravity in the Marvel universe that the book's evil will be lost amidst the sea of darkness ...
Spoiler... CANADA.
I mean, that's clearly British Columbia through the portal.Last edited by Giggling Ghast; 2017-05-19 at 01:54 PM.
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2017-05-18, 09:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Agents of Shield VI: I am an Agent of SHIELD
Yup. I actually mentioned this earlier. In particular his "No Jemma!" part almost sounded sarcastic. It's subtle, and the first moment I noticed something must be up. It's really good, and a reminder that this show isn't afraid of making characters act badly as part of the script (see: early season Grant Ward).
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2017-05-18, 10:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2013
Re: Agents of Shield VI: I am an Agent of SHIELD
That stopped being true a while ago--before DVRs became a thing, actually. And the whole what's-good-what's-bad framework studios work with has been in flux for a while and it's only getting worse (the 18-30 demographic isn't the main target anymore because they don't have money, cord cutting is a growing problem, the Big Three and Fox are losing to other channels for original programming, etc).
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2017-05-19, 07:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Agents of Shield VI: I am an Agent of SHIELD
I would have to agree, time slot is no longer really an issue. Before you would have to use a TV guide to figure out when a show was on, then program your VCR and hope it could take weekly instructions and hope for the best. Now with DVRs its push one button, the recording is set, push a second button and it takes the whole series, heck my DVR even remembers from year to year, even if they move the time slot.
#GoreMutualarejerks
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2017-05-19, 02:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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- Land of Stone and Stars
Re: Agents of Shield VI: I am an Agent of SHIELD
Spoiler: FritzFritz isn't a bad actor, like early Jemma, but he's not a great one. Here, however, he's got some solid motivation. Even if that LMD isn't the genuine article, it looks and acts like her well enough to be a proper motivator. I mean, it would be hard to see anyone in that position, stabbed, tortured and then electrocuted to death, right in front of you. And this isn't just anyone, it's a facsimile of the love of his life. Even knowing it's not the actual Jemma, it's still her image being brutalized. That's gonna bring on a tide of emotion that Fitz could ride. Likely, that's the reason she said it was his fault - it was a non-Jemma enough move to break the spell before it actually did add to Fritz's ever-growing trauma conga. Also, Aida is clearly not paying much attention beyond her own satisfaction, as Ghost Rider identified robots with a single punch while Aida (previously a robot herself) failed to make the connection. She's too high on rage to spot the little things that don't add up.
Spoiler: CoulsonI do wonder what reason Reyes and Coulson were hinting at for the Rider agreeing to swap mounts for a single fight. We've seen him do it before with Mack, but he wanted to stay in Mack because the big guy's pain was made him a perfect host. The Rider had every reason to be willing to swap into Coulson to destroy a foe like that, it was the return that really kinda worried me. I suppose Coulson is not innocent enough to be a host for the Rider? I mean, besides killing Ward in anger (and accidentally feeding Hive in the process), he's an old hand at the spycraft business and has probably done some pretty bad stuff in the name of good. If pain were all that it took to create a perfect host, May would be divine - especially now.
Spoiler: The EndingI severely doubt this is a mindwipe/mindscape scenario. Agents likes using their finale stinger as a time skip with zero context. Odds are that the troops that captured them were not, in fact, military but alien. The team, alienated from the people they serve, get dragooned into an outer space mission. In the end, they'll probably return to Earth to find that life without SHIELD has not been kind to Talbot, so that he's grateful to see Coulson again (or whoever survives the mission, anyway).Spoiler: My inventory:
1 Sentient Sword
1 Jammy Dodger (I was promised tea)
1 Godwin Point.
Originally Posted by Kairos Theodosian
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2017-06-20, 02:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- a nice pond
Re: Agents of Shield VI: I am an Agent of SHIELD
So I wasn't keeping up because Hulu started demanding I sign up for a Plus account to watch it, but now it's come to Netflix so I've watched almost the whole season in the past few days.
SpoilerThe shot-of-vodka-and-sniff-an-onion thing... is that a real thing people do?
I don't tend to like fake-reality stories, but they managed to make the Framework episodes interesting anyway. Enough Mirror Universe kind of stuff to be interesting.
I was very glad that Fitz had to be forced at gunpoint to leave the Framework and it wasn't the power of his lurve for Simmons or somesuch terrible cliche nonsense that saved him.
I like crazy Aida. I liked robot Aida, too. I just like her in general. Her gradual transformation into a psychopath was a million times more satisfying than the Ultron-goes-crazy-for-barely-any-reason senselessness from Age of Ultron.
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2017-06-20, 02:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
Re: Agents of Shield VI: I am an Agent of SHIELD
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2017-06-20, 07:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: Agents of Shield VI: I am an Agent of SHIELD
Spoiler: Fridge logicAida had the ability to simulate a bunch of Inhumans she had never even met (Gordon and Lincoln are mentioned), right down to their DNA, but needed Fitz to (within the Framework) do experiments on them so she could replicate their abilities in her real world body?
I've heard good things about that show. I'll probably check it out if I can find it.
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2017-06-20, 08:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2008
Re: Agents of Shield VI: I am an Agent of SHIELD
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2017-06-20, 08:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Agents of Shield VI: I am an Agent of SHIELD
Huh ... I didn't recognise her without
Spoiler: Slight spoiler for something revealed in ep 1 of Galavant I guess?
the snotty princess attitude and crown!
Now I'm disappointed that Aida didn't create everyone in the Framework with the directive to spontaneously break out into song every five minutes.
Mumble mumble Darkhold mumble mumble.
If you're okay with the aforementioned breaking out into song, then do so! I'm very sad that they had to stop at two seasons, but at least they wrapped it up well.
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2017-06-20, 09:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2008