Relationship Woes and Advice XXVII: Sarcasm Will Not Be Tolerated

[Comrade]

Um hello again, I tried asking someone out again. Didn't go horribly wrong. Asked her through messenger because of the whole not seeing her much and nerves. This was the brief exchange, and I just want to see what other people think about it.

Me: Hello BLANK. Um hi. I've been meaning to ask you if you might want to go on a date sometime. I would have asked you in person, but my schedule is a bit annoying right now. Just only seem to be riding the same bus as you about once a week.
Her: I would but I'm kinda done with any type of relationship stuff currently.
Me: Okay. Well see you whenever then.

With regards to what exactly are you seeking our thoughts? Overall, there's not much to say-- you asked pretty straightforwardly if she wanted to go on a date, and she declined. Does feel like 'Okay. Well see you whenever then.' is kind of an awkward way to conclude that interaction, and maybe you could have thought of something you have in common or something that you both enjoy and asked if she'd like to do that with you rather than just proposing 'a date sometime', but in general, I don't think there's much to remark on; you didn't make a complete ass out of yourself or anything.

[Grytorm]

Okay, good to know. I didn't realize my last message was terse. I was trying to kind of just close the conversation without trying to pry or sounding hurt.

We do have some things in common, she is also interested in D&D, but I don't know what other things we might have in common besides basic speculation.

The main reason why I used the term 'date sometime' because the last time I tried asking someone out (a year ago) it led to some confusion. She later told me she was aromantic, so a date was never really going to work.

And last of all, the main thing that makes it confusing is the ambiguity of "I would but...". Which while overall it is a no it makes things complicated. Maybe ask her out at the end of the (college) school year then just drop the idea entirely. But I don't know if that would be appropriate.

[Chen]

And last of all, the main thing that makes it confusing is the ambiguity of "I would but...". Which while overall it is a no it makes things complicated. Maybe ask her out at the end of the (college) school year then just drop the idea entirely. But I don't know if that would be appropriate.

Like I said, this could easily be something said just to try and let someone down easy. It could also be legitimate that she's had some bad experiences recently and doesn't want to date people now.

Realistically its probably best to just take it as a no and move on. She's aware of your interest and really the ball is in her court. If she decides she wants to date people again she can approach you if she wants.

[Grytorm]

Okay. I guess I will do nothing then. Thank you for the advice.

[kyoryu]

Me: Hello BLANK. Um hi. I've been meaning to ask you if you might want to go on a date sometime. I would have asked you in person, but my schedule is a bit annoying right now. Just only seem to be riding the same bus as you about once a week.

Comes off as a bit insecure, to be honest. Kind of making excuses and stuff? I'd generally recommend being a little more confident. More like "Hey, haven't seen you on the bus in a while. Want to go grab a coffee some time?"

Her: I would but I'm kinda done with any type of relationship stuff currently.

This could be anywhere from true to a nice letdown. Either way, it's a definite "no" signal, and good on you for accepting it as such.

Me: Okay. Well see you whenever then.

This comes off as a bit passive-aggressive. Something like "No worries, I've been there! See you on the bus!" is a bit more positive.

[Xapi]

Okay. I guess I will do nothing then. Thank you for the advice.

IF you feel that your last message doesn't reflect your intentions, you could send a message clarifying that you don't mean to cut her off with that, but that you do respect her wishes so you won't pursue this matter until she unequivocally tells you she's ready to give it a go.

[Grytorm]

Comes off as a bit insecure, to be honest. Kind of making excuses and stuff? I'd generally recommend being a little more confident. More like "Hey, haven't seen you on the bus in a while. Want to go grab a coffee some time?"

This comes off as a bit passive-aggressive. Something like "No worries, I've been there! See you on the bus!" is a bit more positive.

Yeah, I am pretty insecure. I've never had a real any relationship and I've only been on two things which could be, with a stretch, be called a date. I wanted to ask her in person but it was difficult to work up the nerve and my schedule meant I was only seeing her once a week. Stupid therapy appointments, and taking its full extended time slot during the important part of the course. At least, once one of the people I went on a "with a stretch" date on said my terror was endearing. I also went with explicitly calling it a date because I don't know that much what to do on a date and the ambiguity of getting lunch has been a problem last time I tried asking someone out.


Again, I am sorry about the apparent hostility I put into the departure message. I was just trying for a neutral tone, I guess I failed.

[Kalmageddon]

Yeah, I am pretty insecure. I've never had a real any relationship and I've only been on two things which could be, with a stretch, be called a date. I wanted to ask her in person but it was difficult to work up the nerve and my schedule meant I was only seeing her once a week. Stupid therapy appointments, and taking its full extended time slot during the important part of the course. At least, once one of the people I went on a "with a stretch" date on said my terror was endearing.

To be honest, the "I'm done with relationships" answer is usually short hand for "you look like you would be way too much work", from the kind of girl that had to deal with men with issues.
Speaking for myself, dating when I'm in a bad place never, ever worked. You need to be happy to make someone happy, because whenever someone that isn't happy tires to ask a girl out, all she hear is "please take care of me".
Now I don't know if this is your case, but between my past experiences and various undateable friends I've had, this all seems applicable to you.
I'll give you the only piece of advice that benefited me at the time. Stop trying to find a partner when you wouldn't know how to handle them, work on yourself until you can look at the mirror and see something you like, then don't try to date, don't even use the word "date", just let yourself be known by the girl that interests you. Things will work out on their own by that point.

[Grytorm]

Things dont work out. They never have and tgey never will. Friends never care enough to try and hang oit with me. And if I ever try to hang out with them they are to busy.

Yeah. I kind of suck I guess. And there is provably stuff I could do to improve my life. But I don't really know how.

Like just loneliness. I can be fun to be around. I can get people to laugh. Some people enjoy my company. At times when Im talking I wander off topic. Speak hurriedly. Those things are easy to fix. But nothing I can do will fix my difficulties in turning my friendships into anything beyond a smile and the once a month conversations.

People always say that I just need to wait. Act natural. Yeah. I do over focus on possible romantic relationships. I sometimes wonder if I am creepy. But people always say that if I be myself. Stop worrying about it. Things will work out.

No they won't.

[Icewraith]

Things dont work out. They never have and tgey never will. Friends never care enough to try and hang oit with me. And if I ever try to hang out with them they are to busy.

Yeah. I kind of suck I guess. And there is provably stuff I could do to improve my life. But I don't really know how.

Like just loneliness. I can be fun to be around. I can get people to laugh. Some people enjoy my company. At times when Im talking I wander off topic. Speak hurriedly. Those things are easy to fix. But nothing I can do will fix my difficulties in turning my friendships into anything beyond a smile and the once a month conversations.

People always say that I just need to wait. Act natural. Yeah. I do over focus on possible romantic relationships. I sometimes wonder if I am creepy. But people always say that if I be myself. Stop worrying about it. Things will work out.

No they won't.

Kalmageddon's post is solid advice. In terms of life improvement, you need to set a goal before you can figure out how to reach it. So improve what? Note that in my experience, a sufficiently depressed person can always find more things to be unhappy about. I'm not asking for several hundred detailed bullet points describing everything you hate about your life.

What are three to five "big picture" life ...things... you can more or less control that would make you feel happier or more successful?

The "control" bit is important. That eliminates things like "win the lottery" and "find a girlfriend". If you're not happy with your appearance, a valid answer might be "improve body image" or "lose weight". A high paying job (There are some factors outside your control, but you need to find the job, apply for it, and be good enough to be able to land the job)? A meaningful job? Independence (having your own transportation, being able to afford your own living space)? Acquire a specific skill?

Basically, what does success look like?

[Kalmageddon]

Things will work out.

No they won't.

If you read carefully my previous post your will notice that my advice is not "wait and things will work out", it's "improve yourself and after that things will work out".

Also listen to Icewraith' s advice, find something about your life you can improve and start working on it, seriously put some effort into it. No excuses, no procrastination, just get on with it, seriously, it will make you feel so much better.

[Grytorm]

I think that is good advice. I'll try to improve. I don't see how any of that would help with my loneliness. How would any of those things I can control make my friends care enough to spend time with me? How would they lead anywhere? I know that you will say I can control how social I am, how much time I spend with new people. How much I can 'mingle'. But how can any of that make the friendships I already have in my life be meaningful.

[Comrade]

But how can any of that make the friendships I already have in my life be meaningful.

What do you mean by making your friendships meaningful? Do you feel that your current friendships don't mean much to you as it is?

[Kalmageddon]

I think that is good advice. I'll try to improve. I don't see how any of that would help with my loneliness. How would any of those things I can control make my friends care enough to spend time with me? How would they lead anywhere? I know that you will say I can control how social I am, how much time I spend with new people. How much I can 'mingle'. But how can any of that make the friendships I already have in my life be meaningful.

Ok, I'm going to give you some brutal honesty, feel free to stop reading if you can't take a hit.
Improving yourself will help with making friends and having relationships because, even if you don't realize it, the stuff that makes you feel dissatisfied with yourself, with your life, your issues, all of that makes other people feel uncomfortable around you.
It's unfair. That's the knee-jerk reaction to it. But stop and thinks for a moment: everyone around you have issues. Maybe you think their life is much simpler than yours and perhaps it is simpler, but not because they don't have problems, merely because they can handle them better than you do.
My point is, if you want for people to care about you, you are going at it in all the wrong ways. You basically want people to give you what you want. And believe it or not, people can feel that, even if you don't ask anything, they can still perceive you as needy and demanding.
Improving yourself will help because it will make you less needy and more fulfilled, it will give you something to share instead of just voids to fill.
Finally there's the very real possibility that you are searching for friendship and relationships in the wrong place. Maybe the people around you are just a bad fit for your character. It's possible it's a bit of both this and the issues I mentioned previously in this post.
Look, don't take this the wrong way, I'm saying all of this because I know how it feels to be alone. And I know damn well how it feels to be unfulfilled and full of unrealized potential. But I also know that sugarcoating never works. You need to do something about yourself and fast.
Me? I was lucky enough to realize where the real problems were early, and I started working on solving them immediately. Nowadays I have a job I like with plenty of space to grow, I'm in love and things look so much brighter than they did in the past, it can't even be compared.
But it take both effort and strength, lots of it.

[Grytorm]

What do you mean by making your friendships meaningful? Do you feel that your current friendships don't mean much to you as it is?

Well, I'm just going to go through the people I think of as my current friends.

A: I once called her my best friend. Mostly she was fun to talk to, we ended up walking together at graduation. Like, two years ago I saw her regularly on the bus but she now drives to campus because she needs to be able to get back out where we live earlier than she can by bus. I think. I haven't seen her in person for at least six months. Usually if I send her text messages she doesn't respond. Last time we had a real conversation I was feeling really frustrating about being lonely and upset her some. Haven't talked to her since the conversation where I apologized actually. But I doubt it is some sort of refusal. I spent like an hour at the mall with her once. And I visited her house once after she was in a car accident.
B: She has never really talked much, she tends to be really tired in the morning and doesn't really want to talk. I've actually been able to exchange a few words with her more often. Just, mentioning a short idea without being really long winded. We aren't amazingly close, I pretty much only see her on the bus. Once, when she was energetic I asked if we were friends she excitedly said yes. I've talked to her a few times on facebook, but I don't think she really uses it any more. I have hung out with her once where for an anthropology class I had to attend a religious service. Their was some sort of meal thing after and she was their with her sister.
C: I had a really strong crush on C. When I think about it I feel both sad because she wasn't interested and embarassed because I acted sort of stupid. We only ever saw each other on the bus. But when no one else was there she actually would choose to sit next to me and talk. We shared ideas and thoughts a lot. She is a student teacher now at the local high school. I get to say hi sometimes when she can actually reach the city bus, but I also often see her walking quite a ways. I mentioned that I could maybe give her a ride some of the time, I don't have complete independent mobility but I often do have a vehicle, but she wasn't really interested. I once joined an email D&D game she was running. But like most sort of play by post things it didn't last very long. We once played Civ 5 for like an hour on a weekend, no skype or voice chat. It was without expansions.
D: She is rather interested in D&D and is playing a druid in a 5e group. I think. We used to talk a good amount sometimes, but like A I relatively recently said some really stupid stuff and messed things up. While A was understanding D called me out for being such a poor friend. She is interested in D&D but like A is pretty busy. We talked about some serious stuff a few times. But that was quite a while ago.
E: He was a pretty cool guy. We talked a good amount. The bus used to have big conversations, like three or four people from this group on the bus. I really miss those times. He got a transfer degree from a community college and moved away. There is a university close by, I go there myself. But he chose another one. So I haven't seen him for nearly a year.

H: Someone who I met in a class, I tried to ask her on a date but due to lack of clarity she just thought we were going to lunch platonicly. Later I learned she is aromantic. I still text her a lot, and talk about my frustrations and ideas. Last time I was feeling really lonely she suggested hanging out some time, but we haven't come back to the idea.
I: Someone I met on the forums. She is pretty cool and laid back. Mostly we sometimes talk about video games on discord. I haven't talked to her as much as I could lately. Part of that might be time zone differences. A few times when she was really upset we talked a little. Part of the reason I like talking to her is I tend to be prudish and she gives me an opportunity to talk about stuff I can't normally talk about. Again I haven't done that for a while.
J: Again someone I met on the forums. She was super nice and with a bubbly personality. We would occasionally email, bit of joking to try and cheer each other up. Her presence is erratic though, and I might of spooked her by figuring out what country she was from.

K: We don't talk much. We both fall on the aspergers spectrum I think. We both like some gaming things, but he is mostly into Yugio which I don't really care much about anymore. Can be fun to talk to. Once during a ten day school trip we were assigned to each other as roommates. That was pretty fun, though we squabbled a bunch.
L: We were pretty good friends early on in High School we visited each other quite a few times. Probably an aspie, but I've never directly asked. I feel slightly uncomfortable around him because he is a really friendly guy, but he is kind of a shadow archetype of me. He is in many ways everything I fear that I am. Also later on high school he became really boring and would call looking for me to just talk about his half baked ideas and go on for twenty minutes. Unlike most people he actively tries to spend time with me. I really could do better with him.

M: Estranged friend, or more actually group of friends. Just an entire family who two summers ago decided to stop talking to us. We were friends for years and often had birthday parties and things. We got some of our dogs from them. It probably has to do with resentment. Their living conditions have been kind of unstable and my parents loaned them the van for quite a while but eventually we needed it back.

N: The girl I asked out recently, we haven't talked a whole bunch. Usually she is fairly absorbed in pokemon go. But she is interested in D&D, I once tried to set up a game with her and a few other people, but as usual it fell through. Pretty fun to talk to when we get into full conversations. I guess I find it a bit hard to start conversations sometimes. She smiles back when I smile at her.
O: Friend of N who started riding at the same time. Pretty nice, we've talked some about video games. Overall a pretty chill character, but like N is often absorbed in something else.

Minor bus acquaintances: A number of people, mostly guys, whom I kind of know and chat with but it isn't to deep. A few I enjoy talking to a lot, but I don't see them often enough. And a few who really like Smash Bros 4 DS, I did get the game actually to try and join them, but I got it at a slightly silly time right before spring break and I haven't really seen them quite enough to bring the game with me.
Old School Friends: Mostly girls, but a few guys. Partially because I just seem to cross the girls paths more. Partially a comfort thing I guess. I don't really feel like talking to the smart guy who was into WoW. It is fun to talk to them when I get the chance. But it has been quite a while, I'm unlikely to just message them out of the blue. Not that anyone has ever done that to me.
College Friends: In addition to just perriniel classmates a few people have kind of stuck out more. Probably because they were in a class with me that sat in closer quarters. About four people I guess that I would actively say hi to if I ran into them. Maybe five, but the fifth is more tenous.
MtG Store Friends: Let me see, the clerks who of course have good manners. Notably there is the fellow history major who I have foolishly considered asking out. And the owners wife?/co-owner who is always pretty animated when I come in. Plus a few people who I saw often when I was a regular, I kind of hanged out with them but usually felt like a third wheel. Plus some more who are just acquaintances.
D&D Group: Cool but the schedule was never set in stone. I was invited because my sister was interested and friends with the DM and his wife. The live like forty minutes away which made the scheduling on our end tricky. Their were four regulars besides me and my sister, the DM kind of an old school guy not adversarial though, his wife who played a halfling cleric (inspired my 'manliest halfling' character as a countermeasure, it will be a long time before he sees the light of day), and two women, one played a Elf Druid with the least useful animal companion known to man, and her mother who played a dwarf ranger dumb enough to shoot the parties horses. A few other people have showed up, but erratically. However the girl (I mean I kind of wish my dialect used the term gal casually), woman?, can't remember much about her, who took over the cleric's love interest/they don't have a rogue npc might end up a regular if we ever have another session. Probably haven't had one since last summer, but we were never more than once a month. (I played a Gnome Bard with ludicrous HP and my sister played a Gnome Wizard because I told her it was a fairly good choice and I think she was interested in wizarding. Mostly the games core only).

(Also I should try and think through a good response for the other stuff, but it is late and I keep putting it off)

[Kalmageddon]

Grytorm, unless I misread, it seems that your "close friends" are just people that sometimes talk to you on the bus. Like, you don't really have interests or friends in common and you don't really hang out.

In the interest of understanding you better, what kind of hobbies and interests do you cultivate?
What do you like to talk about?
Finally, pretend I was someone you were interested in befriending. What would you say or do?

[adamzeira]

I feel you, I was in a similar place in life once, where I had difficulty making new friends. Then I tried social dancing. Like Salsa, that's the most popular one. Or Lindy Hop, or West Coast Swing - those tend to be much more nerd-friendly

I get that dance can seem horrifyingly scary :) But try it out. There are classes, and they teach you the exact steps you need to take, all the way from knowing nothing to champion level. After classes there's (generally speaking) a party, you ask someone to dance, holds hands and dance for a song, when it's over say thank you and invite a new person. If you enjoyed the dance, you can do another one

I've seen people who are shy and introverted change completely from doing these things for a few months


On a philosophical perspective, I think it has to do just with physically touching and holding hands with a person. There's something about doing that that "calms" you down as a person. I think our society doesn't have enough physical touch, and as monkeys it stresses us out socially. But that's a debate for another time :)

If you do try it out (do it! guarantee it'll change your life), know this - the first time you go, you won't be the best dancer, and people won't ask you to dance a lot. Not the second time either. But stick to it, become better (which is 100% under your control), and once you're good *everyone* wants to hang out and dance with you. Very quickly you'll have a ton of *good* friends

[Chen]

Grytorm, unless I misread, it seems that your "close friends" are just people that sometimes talk to you on the bus. Like, you don't really have interests or friends in common and you don't really hang out.

In the interest of understanding you better, what kind of hobbies and interests do you cultivate?
What do you like to talk about?
Finally, pretend I was someone you were interested in befriending. What would you say or do?

I kind of agree with Kal here on the bus part. You seem to mention a lot of these people your interactions are apparently chatting on the bus. How did you get to know these people? If it was just someone you met on the bus, I can see why people may be reluctant to actually go to meetups and the like. That's an uncommon place for random strangers to get to know one another and could come off as a little weird or creepy.

If you're still in school I definitely recommend trying to connect with people there whom you can see an interact with in more relaxed environments, like the student lounge or the like. Alternatively joining clubs or the like also gets you to meet people in an environment where people are LOOKING to directly interact and meet others.

[Grytorm]

Still don't have time for a full response, but on the point of them being just people I met on the bus.

A, no, we were friends in high school. B through E, yes but there was a high amount of chatter when there was a few more people and some discussion of social events. Then the rest mostly just bus people I guess. And I did have common interests with all of those but B, even then we both play video games.

[dehro]

Those are acquaintances.
Make friends elsewhere/stop considering public transportation a good path to making friends. It may work for some, but it clearly doesn't for you, or some of those people would actually be your friends.
Friends are people who make a willing effort to hang with you and do stuff together; people who actively take an interest in your life and wellbeing beyond the polite chit-chat on the bus.
If nothing comes from an offer to do things together, they're not interested and not. your. friends.
look elsewhere, for instance online on websites geared towards facilitating encounters IRL, or in public places dedicated to things you are passionate about and where you are likely to interact with other people who share your interests.

[Kalmageddon]

Those are acquaintances.
Make friends elsewhere/stop considering public transportation a good path to making friends.

This sums it up pretty well.

[Grytorm]

Then I have nothing.

[Comrade]

Because those people in particular are most likely not the kinds of friends you're looking for, you've concluded nobody can be? That's not a very rational way to look at things. I realise that sort of outlook can be very tempting to indulge, but it's just not true. If you want to find friends who genuinely have things in common with you and enjoy your company, you're going to have to broaden your field beyond public transportation, because as was said earlier, that is not the place to find new friends.

As Chen mentioned, joining clubs at school is a great way to do this, as is looking at local events tailored to your interests. There are plenty of ways to meet new folks who are actually interested in making new friends themselves via mutual hobbies and interests, but the simple fact is you're not going to get anywhere if you decide you've got nowhere to go right off the bat.

[dehro]

Then I have nothing.

Incorrect.
You know what you've been doing wrong.
Now you can focus on a new approach, a new setting, a new group of people.
Get off the bus.
Meet new people.
Find a way to make connections through things you're good at/passionate about.
Look for people in new places, or in old places where new people come through.
Ask for help from people you can trust. See if they have friends who are cool to hang out with or who can introduce you to other friends you might have a common ground with.
Find a new hobby, or a sport, that forces you to get stuck in and comunicate with other people.
Test the waters... the world is a big place and there are people into all sorts of things out there... anything can become an excuse for a group outing.
Try it.
P.S. if you're still in school, look around yourself. I bet there are other kids out there who also eat alone, or sit on the sidelines, or don't get involved, or are actively excluded.
getting involved with them could be your "mission", helping them and yourself in one go.

[Chen]

I think the key here is finding areas where the other people are ALSO looking to make friends. This is why organized activities, like clubs, or sports tend to be good for this. In university there was a lounge we had that had a pool table and a foosball table in it. You could go there between classes and just take it easy. You meet someone who's also on a break between class play a game of pool and chat. Maybe you become friendly maybe not. Other times I had gone down there and people would be playing cards. So either they invite you to join or you ask and again you chat play some games to kill time. All these types of things can lead to making friends. It's not easy it can be tricky especially if you're introverted. Still in school this is one of the easier times to do things. It gets tough outside of school since you tend to have to specifically choose activities and/or become friends with people at your work.

[kyoryu]

I think the key here is finding areas where the other people are ALSO looking to make friends. This is why organized activities, like clubs, or sports tend to be good for this. In university there was a lounge we had that had a pool table and a foosball table in it. You could go there between classes and just take it easy. You meet someone who's also on a break between class play a game of pool and chat. Maybe you become friendly maybe not. Other times I had gone down there and people would be playing cards. So either they invite you to join or you ask and again you chat play some games to kill time. All these types of things can lead to making friends. It's not easy it can be tricky especially if you're introverted. Still in school this is one of the easier times to do things. It gets tough outside of school since you tend to have to specifically choose activities and/or become friends with people at your work.

This.

Find an activity you enjoy, one which, if it doesn't actively involve other people, at least is often or frequently done around other people doing the same thing. So team sports are great for this if you're a sport-like person, but even things like flying model aircraft (gotta fly 'em somewhere, right?) can work.

Do the thing.

Be around people doing the thing, and have conversations with them.

[Grytorm]

I'll try something new I guess, I can try. But I don't know if things will really change, they haven't in the past. But I can try.

And for the ask for help from people you can trust. Well, personally I find that a bit absurd advice given that according to all of you the people I can already trust aren't my friends and can't really be trusted.

In a way this isn't really that helpful, things work better when I pretend nothing is wrong and try not to think about things. Its hard to look for advice and be told that everything you already have is nothing but dust. To give up on it and start anew.

[Icewraith]

I'll try something new I guess, I can try. But I don't know if things will really change, they haven't in the past. But I can try.

And for the ask for help from people you can trust. Well, personally I find that a bit absurd advice given that according to all of you the people I can already trust aren't my friends and can't really be trusted.

In a way this isn't really that helpful, things work better when I pretend nothing is wrong and try not to think about things. Its hard to look for advice and be told that everything you already have is nothing but dust. To give up on it and start anew.

You're the one saying your "friends" don't care enough to spend time with you. You say you want deeper, more meaningful friendships- your current friendships you don't think are deep or meaningful and we're agreeing. The people who don't care to hang out with you- are you saying you trust them?

Pretending nothing is wrong and not thinking about things is how you got into the position you're currently in. You're clearly unhappy, so you're not fooling yourself. You're not fooling other people, especially people you want to date. If you've tried to change things in the past, how hard have you tried to change them, and why didn't it work?

This is why it is so important, if you go back to my previous post, to figure out what success looks like for you. It's not enough to try to change things, you must figure out what you want things to change into. Think of this like being in a rowboat with one oar. It's not enough to try- you can paddle as hard as you like, but if you only paddle on one side of the boat you're just going to turn in a circle and stay where you are. You must paddle with a direction in mind and correct your course in order to get anywhere.

The end goal of all this advice is to get you a set of tangible, realistic goals you can work towards in order to improve your life. Once you have started to succeed at those goals, you'll be happier with how your life is going. Once you're happy with how your life is going, it is astronomically more likely that a woman you're interested in is going to want to share it with you.

[2D8HP]

....But nothing I can do will fix my difficulties in turning my friendships into anything beyond a smile and the once a month conversations....

You've gotten some real good advice on making friends in this thread, but I have a question for you:

Why do you want any?

I know that sounds absurd, but I pretty much have left my "friendship" days behind.

I still have plenty of social interaction with other people, but I don't help anyone move, nor do I expect any help from non-family, and I really don't seek any deeper contact than I already have with my co-workers, or the book-sellers that are my acquaintances.

If you want more conversations there are plenty of activities (just go to some Adventurers League or Pathfinder Society games!), and Habitat for Humanity is fulfilling to volunteer for (admittedly I initially did for Apprentice credit during the last recession).

Plenty of political organizations want your time as well (I used to precinct walk).

But I guess I'm odd in that I'm generally grateful when I can get enough solitude to read, and I find that the more time I spend with people the more likely they're to ask me to unclog a drain or other such task which I try to avoid.

[dehro]

I'll try something new I guess, I can try. But I don't know if things will really change, they haven't in the past. But I can try.

And for the ask for help from people you can trust. Well, personally I find that a bit absurd advice given that according to all of you the people I can already trust aren't my friends and can't really be trusted.

family? significant others of members of your family? a favourite teacher? that's what I meant.