[Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

[Ualaa]

Combat Training, for non-Spheres of Might Classes.

So I give up my 1, 5, 9, 13, and 17 general feats.
In their place, I gain a bonus combat talent at even levels.
5 feats for 10 talents, is a decent trade.

It then says, "Characters who already have the combat training class feature cannot exchange their feats for an additional progression."

If my character at level one (and through level 5) is not a Spheres of Might character, and has chosen to lose their general feats at 1, 5, 9, 13, and 17 for bonus talents at even levels... then gains a Spheres of Might class.

01 Mageknight 01
02 Mageknight 02
03 Mageknight 03
04 Mageknight 04
05 Mageknight 05
06 Conscript 01
07 Conscript 02
08 Conscript 03
09 Conscript 04
10 Conscript 05

The Conscript has the Combat Training class feature.

Does that mean that I cease to lose my 9, 13, and 17 bonus feats and cease to gain my even level bonus combat talents?
Or because I made the trade before acquiring the Combat Training class feature, I continue to lose bonus feats and continue to gain bonus talents?

[Dr_Dinosaur]

For example, Barrage is NOT associated with Rapid Shot, but with Point Blank Shot. What I'm seeing in fact is that SoM seems to shy away of granting full-round-action feats as Talents. That seems to be the area they've delineated as 'feat territory'.

Wait, so is the information on the Spheres of Power wiki incorrect? The Barrage sphere is associated with Point Blank Shot, but Rapid Shot is also listed as an associated feat for the base Barrage ability.

Anyway, for people's convenience I've compiled every associated feat (and the other feats they count as for prereqs) in a nice table. I'm not going through all of Pathfinder's feats to figure out what can be qualified for more easily this way, but I'm sure this will make it easier for others.

Spoiler

Show

Sphere	Talent	Feat(s)
Athletics	(Run Package)	Run
Athletics	Mobile Strike	Spring Attack, Mobility, Dodge
Athletics	Mobility	Mobility, Dodge
Athletics	Skillful Charge	Charging Hurler, Point-blank Shot
Athletics	Diving Strike	Branch Pounce
Athletics	Powerful Wings	Hover
Athletics	Moving Target	Wind Stance, Dodge
Barrage	(Base)	Point-blank Shot, Rapid Shot
Barrage	Vigilant Sharpshooter 1	Snap Shot, Weapon Focus
Barrage	Vigilant Sharpshooter 2	Improved Snap Shot
Barroom	Barroom Expert	Improvised Weapon Mastery, Catch Off-guard, Throw Anything
Barroom	Jagged Edge	Splintering Weapon
Barroom	Shatter	Chairbreaker, Catch Off-guard
Barroom	Menacing Belch	Dazzling Display, Weapon Focus
Beastmaster	(Ride Package)	Mounted Combat
Beastmaster	Pack Attack	Outflank
Berserker	Advancing Carnage 1	Cleave, Great Cleave, Power Attack
Berserker	Advancing Carnage 2	Cleave Through
Berserker	Deathless	Diehard, Endurance
Berserker	Greater Sunder	Improved Sunder, Power Attack
Berserker	Reaper's Momentum	Cleaving Finish, Cleave
Boxing	(Base)	Improved Unarmed Strike
Boxing	Raging Bull	Rhino Charge, Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush
Brute	(Base)	Improved Unarmed Strike
Brute	Break Defenses	Greater Bull Rush, Greater Drag, Greater Overrun, Greater Reposition
Brute	Greater Brute	Improved Bull Rush, Improved Drag, Improved Overrun, Improved Reposition, Combat Expertise, Power Attack
Brute	Unstoppable	Charge Through, Improved Overrun
Duelist	Defensive Slice	Cut from the Air, Power Attack
Duelist	Finger Cutter	Improved Disarm, Combat Expertise
Equipment	Expert Reloading	Rapid Reload
Equipment	Fast Draw	Quick Draw
Equipment	Finesse Fighting	Weapon Finesse
Equipment	Shield Expert	Shield Focus
Equipment	Sling Combatant	Sling Flail, Weapon Focus (Sling)
Equipment	Staff Mastery	Quarterstaff Master, Weapon Focus (Quarterstaff)
Equipment	Thrower's Reflexes	Catch Arrows, Deflect Arrows, Improved Unarmed Strike
Equipment	Versatile Shield	Shield Master, Shield Slam
Equipment	Whip Fiend	Whip Mastery, Improved Whip Mastery, Weapon Focus (Whip)
Equipment	Halfling Heritage	Ammo Drop
Equipment	Huntsman Training	Far Shot, Point-blank Shot
Equipment	Shield Training	Shield Proficiency, Tower Shield Proficiency.
Equipment	Tribal Training	Disposable Weapon
Fencing	Expert Feint	Greater Feint, Improved Feint, Combat Expertise
Fencing	Fast Feint	Improved Feint, Combat Expertise
Fencing	Footwork 1	Step Up
Fencing	Footwork 2	Following Step
Fencing	Lunge	Lunge
Fencing	Masterful Defense	Crane Style, Dodge, Improved Unarmed Strike
Gladiator	(Base)	Dazzling Display, Weapon Focus
Guardian	(Patrol Package)	Combat Patrol, Combat Reflexes, Mobility, Dodge
Guardian	Assist	Bodyguard, Combat Reflexes
Guardian	Clear Path	Escape Route
Guardian	Stand Still	Stand Still, Combat Reflexes
Open Hand	(Base)	Improved Unarmed Strike
Open Hand	Greater Trip	Improved Trip, Combat Expertise
Scoundrel	Improved Grifting	Improved Steal, Improved Dirty Trick, Combat Expertise
Scoundrel	Playing Dirty	Greater Dirty Trick, Improved Dirty Trick
Shield	Bashing Shield	Improved Shield Bash
Sniper	(Base)	Precise Shot, Point-blank Shot
Wrestling	(Base)	Improved Unarmed Strike
Wrestling	Greater Grapple	Greater Grapple, Improved Grapple
Wrestling	Iron Grip	Improved Grapple

[Wartex1]

To be fair, some non-full attack feats require Rapid Shot like Overwatch Style.

[Adam Meyers]

As a DM, I love the idea of more tools for my monsters.
However, I have noticed a potential balance issue:
Unarmored Training and its interaction with monsters.
They usually have either or both of: High BAB, High HD for their CR (compared to a player character)

This particular talent is worth a feat EVERY time for a monster that has at least 1 intelligence, and therefore access to feats.
Bonus points if you spend another feat on creatures with with low BAB progression to get 1 rank per HD in acrobatics via the Athletics Sphere RUN package.

With 1 or 2 feats, every single monster can and SHOULD (no other feat carries this amount of value) get itself this 2+1/2HD increase to touch AC, once Spheres of Might enters a game.

You are not wrong. However, that problem is related to Pathfinder, not SoM.

Most CRs have an ac 'range' they are supposed to inhabit (unless having higher or lower ac is part of the design), and while some monsters get that way from a combination of armor, shields, feats, etc., others just get a flat natural ac bonus to bring them to that number.

Considering how much wealth a lot of monsters are 'supposed' to have, having a monster with a high natural armor gain armor proficiency and magic armor has always been a very easy way to boost their ACs. In core, the only reason GMs don't do this often is because they know that, while technically within the rules, doing so would make the monsters too powerful for the PCs to fight (unless of course they're specifically trying to boost a low CR monster to higher levels).

Unfortunately we have to rely on the same balancing formuale here; while we could make a rule that Unarmored Training doesn't stack with natural armor, doing so would unnecessarily handcuff certain things that it is not our place to handcuff; GMs always have the power to break any encounter over their knee just by decreeing "and then dragons show up", so it is not our place to try and overly-dictate what they can or cannot do. The rule for what talents to give to a monster is the same as it is with feats and magic items in core; keep the monsters CR appropriate.

[kkplx]

Thank you for the answer Adam.
I'm currently using spheres of power and might in my now 4 year running 3.5 game to spice up combat.
Considering the huge difference in threat from some characters there (permaflying freemoving touch attacking impossible to hit SoP Soulknife vs badly optimized two-weapon fighting antperson), the touch ac increase from the talent was a welcome one, but it's hard to miss how strong it is to give a monster an increase of 10+ touch AC at that level.

[Cybershark]

Reposting since it didn't get answered the first time.

Wondering what the design decision was behind the Gunfighter Gunslinger archetype replacing Pistol Whip with Gun Kata (ostensibly an upgrade as the Pistol-Whip talent was, to put it lightly, not that great), while the Dancing Blade Swashbuckler does not replace Opportune Parry and Riposte with the very similar (and IMO, superior) Fencing sphere Parry/Riposte talent?

Is it because OParry/Riposte is gained at 1st level while Gunfighter Gun Kata is gained at 3rd level?

[Adam Meyers]

@Dr_Dinosaur: Errata will remove that Rapid Shot associated feat.

@Ualaa: We're adding the following errata to the feat exchange:

“Characters who gain a combat talent progression in this manner gain it only for levels in their starting class, and any classes they gain that do not grant a combat talent progression or High Caster casting progression (including classes that grant 9th level spellcasting or an equivalent), adding all such levels together to determine their total number of combat talents. A character who later multiclasses into a class that grants a combat talent progression does not gain additional combat talents beyond those normally granted by that class.”

This still leaves a small group of people at a detriment (people who begin as a fighter and take the feat exchange, then multiclass into SoM after say level 2 and stay there forever), but we'll also add a line about with GM permission a character in such a situation can retrain, losing those bonus talents but regaining the lost feats instead.

[Slavezero]

since the Choke Hold talent has a high chance of getting pulled are there any plans to replace or rework it?

[Adam Meyers]

Reposting since it didn't get answered the first time.

Wondering what the design decision was behind the Gunfighter Gunslinger archetype replacing Pistol Whip with Gun Kata (ostensibly an upgrade as the Pistol-Whip talent was, to put it lightly, not that great), while the Dancing Blade Swashbuckler does not replace Opportune Parry and Riposte with the very similar (and IMO, superior) Fencing sphere Parry/Riposte talent?

Is it because OParry/Riposte is gained at 1st level while Gunfighter Gun Kata is gained at 3rd level?

Parry and Riposte is gained at 1st level but you can't actually riposte with the Fencing talent until BAB +5, so low level swashbucklers would actually lose out.

Also, we didn't want it fighting with Focused Charm, which also requires martial focus. If we gave them the Fencing sphere option they'd both have to wait longer to make their riposte, and they'd be back in the boat of having their defensive options fighting over the same resource as their offensive options.

[Adam Meyers]

since the Choke Hold talent has a high chance of getting pulled are there any plans to replace or rework it?

Current plan is a rewrite:

“Whenever you control a grapple against a creature, that creature is unable to breathe or speak, though they may hold their breath in response to being grappled. Each consecutive round they spend grappled by you counts as a number of rounds equal to your practitioner modifier against the total number of rounds they may hold their breath before they are forced to make Constitution checks to avoid suffocating. For every 4 points of base attack bonus you possess, each passing round counts as an additional +1 round when determining how long they can hold their breath.”

[Cybershark]

Parry and Riposte is gained at 1st level but you can't actually riposte with the Fencing talent until BAB +5, so low level swashbucklers would actually lose out.

Also, we didn't want it fighting with Focused Charm, which also requires martial focus. If we gave them the Fencing sphere option they'd both have to wait longer to make their riposte, and they'd be back in the boat of having their defensive options fighting over the same resource as their offensive options.

Understandable. I don't envy any kind of work involving Swashbuckler: it's probably one of the worst-designed classes this side of Medium or Kineticist in terms of conflicting class features and being ineffectual at its stated goal. Spheres of Might at least makes it function via Adept Progression.

[Genth]

@Dr_Dinosaur: Errata will remove that Rapid Shot associated feat.

I actually missed the associated feat when I looked at the barrage sphere >.> Probably because I saw 'associated feat - point blank shot' and just assumed, 'cos I'm a dumbass. Have I just ruined everything now >.<

[Genth]

Direct question, can someone be under the effect of more than one Shout or Tactic from the Warleader sphere at the same time? My friend just got rather worried at the idea of an all-Commander 10 person troupe, each using Troop Volley until the group gets 100 shots out in a single round O.o

[Ualaa]

@Ualaa: We're adding the following errata to the feat exchange:

“Characters who gain a combat talent progression in this manner gain it only for levels in their starting class, and any classes they gain that do not grant a combat talent progression or High Caster casting progression (including classes that grant 9th level spellcasting or an equivalent), adding all such levels together to determine their total number of combat talents. A character who later multiclasses into a class that grants a combat talent progression does not gain additional combat talents beyond those normally granted by that class.”

This still leaves a small group of people at a detriment (people who begin as a fighter and take the feat exchange, then multiclass into SoM after say level 2 and stay there forever), but we'll also add a line about with GM permission a character in such a situation can retrain, losing those bonus talents but regaining the lost feats instead.

So, the intention is that the bonus talents cease once a class with it's own combat talent progression is taken.
Does that mean, that from that point onwards, the general feats that would have been lost (in exchange for said bonus combat talents) are then granted from that point forward?

[EldritchWeaver]

So, the intention is that the bonus talents cease once a class with it's own combat talent progression is taken.
Does that mean, that from that point onwards, the general feats that would have been lost (in exchange for said bonus combat talents) are then granted from that point forward?

I'd say the intention is to remove from a build all levels with combat training, using the remaining levels as character level to determine, how many combat talents you get.

[Aipaca]

The Suit Pilot Technician archetype doesn't seem worth it at all, you lose a hell of a lot (including gadgets, which most of the insights interact with) for not a lot...

[Dr_Dinosaur]

I'd say the intention is to remove from a build all levels with combat training, using the remaining levels as character level to determine, how many combat talents you get.

I understood it as “upon gaining Combat Training, all feats traded for talents are refunded and Talent Progression is retroactively applied using your new PL.” I could be wrong, since that can lead to a weird power spike if you’re not looking ahead, but it’s simple enough.

[Cybershark]

I'm digesting the Dual Wield sphere again. Is there no "Fencing + Dual Wield" combination talent? I put it into quotation marks because it isn't spelled out exactly, but the Tricky Combo talent (free attack with a steal or dirty trick maneuver) and brutal combo (free attack with a bull rush, drag, or reposition combat maneuver) both synergize rather nicely with other spheres: Tricky Combo is great for someone also investing in Scoundrel, while Brutal Combo goes nicely with Brute sphere. While I understand that Feint exists in a weird place where it isn't really a combat maneuver but it sort of is kinda messes things up.

Is there any chance of dual-sphere feat sometime in the future that functions similarly to Two-Weapon Feint, that requires both the Fencing + Dual Wield Spheres (perhaps some other prereqs)? Not being able to feint with an off-hand when Dual Wielding is (IMO) a bit odd when it's a documented tactic in martial arts in the east and west. On another note, are there even plans for Dual Sphere feats for Spheres of Might, or is that a pipe dream that I shouldn't get my hopes up for?

[Lirya]

I made a Drow Conscript as an opponent in my spheres game and it was devastating for the party. He had sneak attack, dual wielding and fencing sphere. Fast Feint -> Move Adjacent -> Feint Strike (Dual Opportunity) -> Attack Action for 4 attacks with sneak attack, two of them also with extra fencing dice was just plain brutal. Trust me, fencing and dual wielding has plenty of synergy without acquiring more ways to feint easily.

Edit: For the Afterimage legendary talent, are the scaling +1 image per 6 ranks in Acrobatics added to the free image for moving more than 5 feet, or to the extra image you can get by expending focus if you move more than 20 feet? Or do they apply to both?

[Dr_Dinosaur]

I'm digesting the Dual Wield sphere again. Is there no "Fencing + Dual Wield" combination talent? I put it into quotation marks because it isn't spelled out exactly, but the Tricky Combo talent (free attack with a steal or dirty trick maneuver) and brutal combo (free attack with a bull rush, drag, or reposition combat maneuver) both synergize rather nicely with other spheres: Tricky Combo is great for someone also investing in Scoundrel, while Brutal Combo goes nicely with Brute sphere. While I understand that Feint exists in a weird place where it isn't really a combat maneuver but it sort of is kinda messes things up.

Is there any chance of dual-sphere feat sometime in the future that functions similarly to Two-Weapon Feint, that requires both the Fencing + Dual Wield Spheres (perhaps some other prereqs)? Not being able to feint with an off-hand when Dual Wielding is (IMO) a bit odd when it's a documented tactic in martial arts in the east and west. On another note, are there even plans for Dual Sphere feats for Spheres of Might, or is that a pipe dream that I shouldn't get my hopes up for?

That seems like a no-brainer for an eventual Fencer’s Handbook, if that ever happens. Can’t make it an Associated feat because of the TWF prerequisite though.

I made a Drow Conscript as an opponent in my spheres game and it was devastating for the party. He had sneak attack, dual wielding and fencing sphere. Fast Feint -> Move Adjacent -> Feint Strike (Dual Opportunity) -> Attack Action for 4 attacks with sneak attack, two of them also with extra fencing dice was just plain brutal. Trust me, fencing and dual wielding has plenty of synergy without acquiring more ways to feint easily.

How did you get 4 attacks on an attack action?

[Lirya]

Two attacks for the AoO you get from Feint Strike + two attacks from the Attack Action.

[Kaouse]

While we're on the subject of what can be done as a attack action, can I get some clarification on fighting defensively during an attack action? I think the main rules are a little lax on this area. Having it work for every attack action would be preferable, IMHO.

Any word on whether Fighting Defensively is possible with any attack action?

[Galacktic]

With the Techsmith archetype for Blacksmith, do your Blacksmith levels count for things that scale with Technician levels? Like Super Kick - you can apply that modification to yourself or an ally, and then you can discharge it to do 1d6/2 technician levels. Is that just stuck at 1d6 forever for a techsmith?

[Eldaran]

So I really enjoyed reading Spheres of Might, but I'm curious on the Poison package of the Alchemy sphere. What was the reasoning behind it scaling with BAB rather than with your Craft (Alchemy)?

[Makiru]

I only just got up to date reading all of this on the wiki, and I noticed something odd that I don't know if was answered already.

In the Practitioner Bestiary, I saw Traditions and Talents that appeared to be monster-specific, but were not labeled anywhere to say what they have or did. Is this an onerous omission, or just something the wiki forgot to put up yet?

Also, do you have to prepare specific Alchemy poisons of a certain type and vector at the beginning of the day, or do you pick what type when you use it?

[Dr_Dinosaur]

Two attacks for the AoO you get from Feint Strike + two attacks from the Attack Action.

My mistake was thinking the second attack from Dual-wielding was a free action

[master4sword]

I only just got up to date reading all of this on the wiki, and I noticed something odd that I don't know if was answered already.

In the Practitioner Bestiary, I saw Traditions and Talents that appeared to be monster-specific, but were not labeled anywhere to say what they have or did. Is this an onerous omission, or just something the wiki forgot to put up yet?

I can answer this one at least. There are monster talents (and traditions) in the book, and it appears the wiki lacks them at the moment.

[Makiru]

I can answer this one at least. There are monster talents (and traditions) in the book, and it appears the wiki lacks them at the moment.

Thank you, I thought I was going crazy. Hopefully those will be up sooner than later.

[Slavezero]

is there an eta on when the changes and updates will be added to the pdf?

[khadgar567]

about prodigy can i use destructive blast when i attack with conductive weapon like magus?