Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)

[Alish]

Great book! I know the odds of this happening are low, but boy I sure would enjoy seeing a return of Ms. Kapoor.

Therkla meeting Sangwaan was a pleasant surprise, and it’s a pity we won’t get to see more of them :(

Two things I did not understand:

i) The relationship between Therkla and Kohaku looked slightly weird to me. They look like they hate each other’s guts, but sometimes, they take pauses to banter.

ii) Whose idea it was to call the cute armadillo a carbuncle?! YUCK.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Therkla and Kohaku seem to Friendly Rivals on some level. Plus, it seems they went to Ninja School together.

A carbuncle is a type of gemstone. The D&D animal has one prominently displayed on its forehead.

[godsflunky]

Speaking of Yu...what odds do we put on it being short for Yunji?

Yunji's actually a preexisting member of the Sapphire Guard, from a WaXP bonus strip.

Spoiler: Very minor book spoiler

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She and another paladin named Jiaya were going to go to dinner with Miko, but Miko started complaining about the proposed restaurant's moral character, so they pretended to be dating to get out of it (and are seen actually making out in a later bonus strip.)

I haven't gotten this yet (planning to due to all the positive praise, but I do already have the Kickstarter PDFs), so I'd have to check when I do to see if they're actually the same.

I'd give very long odds indeed, since Yu's hair is substantially longer than either woman's hair in that bonus strip. (Unless Yunji cut her hair a lot shorter when she came out?)

Spoiler: further minor book spoilers

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Also worth noticing in that bonus page is that Miko implies both Yunji and Jiaya are commoners. Which ties in even more thoroughly with O-Chul mentioning that Yunji was with him and Lien when they went to get food down at the docks: the commoners were hanging out together.

[ti'esar]

Therkla and Kohaku seem to Friendly Rivals on some level. Plus, it seems they went to Ninja School together.

A carbuncle is a type of gemstone. The D&D animal has one prominently displayed on its forehead.

I'm not sure I'd say friendly rivals. They're basically Haley and Crystal - they hate each other but they've also known each other since forever and are in some sense colleagues rather than trying to kill each other all the time.

[Ruck]

I loved every part of this. O-Chul's story was, deservedly, the star of the show - learning about his backstory was incredible, and explained so much. I loved loved loved all of the characters introduced there, too. It's a shame the Supreme Leader didn't get a chance to reign any longer... I question if he might be Jirix, but at the same time, I feel like Jirix is a bit... meaner than the one we saw in this story? Could be wrong, though. (I do feel like the final "lessons Miko has learned" was a bit on the nose, but the rest of the story was more than enough to make up for it.)

I'm pretty sure the Supreme Leader is this guy. I don't know what he's up to now, other than presumably wearing the gear that used to indicate Supreme Leadership.

[Peelee]

I'm pretty sure the Supreme Leader is this guy. I don't know what he's up to now, other than presumably wearing the gear that used to indicate Supreme Leadership.

I was under the impression that people were wondering if he was Jirix, knowing full well that he appears in the comic in that strip, as he is established as being quite capable.

[Lissou]

I feel that if he were an already established character such as Jirix, his name would have been revealed at the end, so I'd say probably not?

I loved Zhou's talent for knowing the best escape route and how O-Chul knew to take advantage of it. Great leader, knowing his people's strengths like that.

[Peelee]

I feel that if he were an already established character such as Jirix, his name would have been revealed at the end, so I'd say probably not?

Agreed. Also that he and O-Chul would likely recognize one another.

[Ruck]

Got my book today. Agree with everyone who called out the Shojo & Scruffy panel as a heart-melter. But on that same page, the two Miko panels, Mr Scruffy remembering Miko as a horrible scary monster...I hadn't ever thought about Mr Scruffy being traumatized before :( My melted heart re-formed just so it could snap in two.

Okay, this confuses me a little. Are you talking about the image next to Mr. Scruffy? Because that looks like Darth Vaarsuvius to me, although the events leading to that phenomenon hadn't happened yet chronologically. Is that supposed to be Miko, and thus create a visual a parallel for how her actions would make her look to Mr. Scruffy to how Soul-Splice V's make them look to us?

[Rynael]

Nah, I'm almost positive it was unintentional. Stick figures in this style just have certain limits to their range sometimes, even in a comic that has pushed those limits so far other times.

But it really was an emotive panel for me, same with the ending. It really made me think about how different everything is from Mr. Scruffy's perspective.

[Kish]

I don't see any image that looks anything to me like Spliced-Vaarsuvius in that story. I do see Miko with oversized pointy teeth.

[Peelee]

Okay, this confuses me a little. Are you talking about the image next to Mr. Scruffy? Because that looks like Darth Vaarsuvius to me, although the events leading to that phenomenon hadn't happened yet chronologically. Is that supposed to be Miko, and thus create a visual a parallel for how her actions would make her look to Mr. Scruffy to how Soul-Splice V's make them look to us?

Its how Mr. Scruffy sees things in his simplified, itty bitty kitty way. He saw Miko as a monster who killed his human. It's not supposed to be a super accurate memory, or a visual parallel for anything. It's just how the kitty remembers the event, as a non-sapient animal. Good human gives him pets and shelter and food and takes its neck thing off, big scary human kills good human.

[Ruck]

I don't see any image that looks anything to me like Spliced-Vaarsuvius in that story. I do see Miko with oversized pointy teeth.

The eyes, pointy teeth, and loose hair sure look familiar to me.

Its how Mr. Scruffy sees things in his simplified, itty bitty kitty way. He saw Miko as a monster who killed his human. It's not supposed to be a super accurate memory, or a visual parallel for anything. It's just how the kitty remembers the event, as a non-sapient animal. Good human gives him pets and shelter and food and takes its neck thing off, big scary human kills good human.

Yeah, that was the conclusion that made the most sense, but the visual similarities to what I linked above were so striking that that was the immediate connection I drew.

[LadyEowyn]

The first four stories were fun, but "How the Paladin Got His Scar" is just So. Unbelievably. Good. I don't care if it's a stick-figure comic, that is literature. The majority of the fantasy novel's I've read aren't as good as that.

I'm so glad I finally got to read it. I had high expectations, and it exceeded them. It takes a character who was already wonderful, and makes him so much better.

Also, while we can't discuss politics here, it seems quite evident from many elements of the story and its themes that the Giant was thinking about current events when he wrote it.

[Peelee]

The first four stories were fun, but "How the Paladin Got His Scar" is just So. Unbelievably. Good. I don't care if it's a stick-figure comic, that is literature. The majority of the fantasy novel's I've read aren't as good as that.

I'm so glad I finally got to read it. I had high expectations, and it exceeded them. It takes a character who was already wonderful, and makes him so much better.

A lot of people, myself included, have called it the Gopd version of Start of Darkness. Coupled with the other stories as it is, this book overtook SoD, at least for me.

[DaggerPen]

Agreed. Also that he and O-Chul would likely recognize one another.

Fair point.

I'd say for me, at least, the instinct is that Jirix's last appearance hints he has his own agenda separate from Redcloak's, and because of that, there was a theory that he was the deposed Supreme Leader. The fact that the previous Supreme Leader got so much characterization, and was established to have been a Priest, would seem to strengthen that theory... but for him and O-Chul now being established to know each other.

The dots are really tempting to connect, but it doesn't quite seem to work, hence my comment.

[Peelee]

Fair point.

I'd say for me, at least, the instinct is that Jirix's last appearance hints he has his own agenda separate from Redcloak's, and because of that, there was a theory that he was the deposed Supreme Leader. The fact that the previous Supreme Leader got so much characterization, and was established to have been a Priest, would seem to strengthen that theory... but for him and O-Chul now being established to know each other.

The dots are really tempting to connect, but it doesn't quite seem to work, hence my comment.

To be fair here, I thought it was an intriguing theory myself at first. Someone else mentioned the Supreme Leader-O-Chul connection and how that would work with Jirix, and that did make it seem much more unlikely.

[LadyEowyn]

A lot of people, myself included, have called it the Gopd version of Start of Darkness. Coupled with the other stories as it is, this book overtook SoD, at least for me.

"The Good version of Start of Darkness" is an well-phrased description. The two ferl very complementary to each other.

Though, to me, a lot of HTPGHS is about the distinction between doing what is good (O-Chul) and doing what is Good (the Sapphire Guard). Something can be Good without being good, which is why O-Chul is at odds with the paladins.

[Ruck]

To be fair here, I thought it was an intriguing theory myself at first. Someone else mentioned the Supreme Leader-O
O-Chul connection and how that would work with Jirix, and that did make it seem much more unlikely.

I hadn't thought about the possible connection, but after reading this book, O-Chul putting a prison bar through Jirix's chest would come off a lot differently if it were true.

[Rogar Demonblud]

I'm not sure exactly how long ago Scar was set, other than it being at least six years ago (Hinjo isn't 18 yet, and he's 23 in War and XPs). Given the hobgoblin life expectancy (and penchant for assassinations, apparently), it's quite possible the Scar-edition Supreme leader was dead before Xykon and Redcloak showed up.

[Toad]

I'm not sure exactly how long ago Scar was set, other than it being at least six years ago (Hinjo isn't 18 yet, and he's 23 in War and XPs). Given the hobgoblin life expectancy (and penchant for assassinations, apparently), it's quite possible the Scar-edition Supreme leader was dead before Xykon and Redcloak showed up.

He quite clearly shows up here: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0149.html

[facw]

I'm not sure exactly how long ago Scar was set, other than it being at least six years ago (Hinjo isn't 18 yet, and he's 23 in War and XPs). Given the hobgoblin life expectancy (and penchant for assassinations, apparently), it's quite possible the Scar-edition Supreme leader was dead before Xykon and Redcloak showed up.

Maybe, but I took the panel with the labeled headdress, scepter, and amulet, along with the supreme leader's cowardice to be pretty strong indications that they were the same guy.

That said, I don't think it makes any sense for it to be Jirix. Even without the regalia of the supreme leader, the supreme leader has a teal cloak rather than blue, but much more importantly, they seem to have wildly different personalities.

[Lexible]

The picture of Shojo and mr scruffy, is like the best.

OMG it so is! I loved that page, and that specific image just had me staring at it, and wondering if I should get a tattoo of them.

[Zyzzyva]

So, the other creature in the Mr. Scruffy story is a Carbuncle, right? But they aren't listed as having the ability to teleport people -- or even cute cats. So what's up with all the teleporting?

Some write-ups (such as this one) give the Carbuncle the blink or dimension door ability.

Thanks! I was mentally calling it the teleporting gemadillo.

Best panel was, of course, Shojo meeting Mr Scruffy; best line (in the new stories, at least) was "Regular creative or zany scheme creative?" "In your heart, you already know."

I've already read the two kickstarters, but since everyone is praising Scar, may I just take the moment to praise Spoiler Alert? I particularly like how it recontextualizes #429 from the indifferent death of a minor side-character into, as Sangwaan realizes, a pretty funny practical joke. And also a weirdly touching moment, given that it's still a character being killed off.

The eyes, pointy teeth, and loose hair sure look familiar to me.

That it's Evil!Murderous!Horrible!Monster!Miko seems so obvious to me I'm not sure why we're arguing, but - the spiky-toothed character has hair of the same shade as the black-and-white Miko next to it (0x343434), and different than black-and-white V in OtooPCs (0x4a4a4a).

ETA: Of course, black-and-white Miko in Scar has 0x191919 hair, so all of this is moot I guess I'll retrench to "there's only so many ways to make an obviously horrible face with stick-figures" and Casey and Andy's "Your story lacks a certain... respect for causality."

[Kardwill]

Speaking of numbers, is anyone else slightly frustrated that it's "1/2" rather than "0.5"?

Not frustrated, but I thought it meant "first of 2 volumes about the azurites". Coming to this thread and having that illusion shattered was harsh (Cause I LOVE this book) ^^

[Peelee]

Not frustrated, but I thought it meant "first of 2 volumes about the azurites". Coming to this thread and having that illusion shattered was harsh (Cause I LOVE this book) ^^

You could have found that out back in April, though.

Q: What number is on the book's spine?
A: The book is numbered "1/2" to represent the fact that the stories take in the middle of other books. For example, O-Chul's story takes place in between parts of Start of Darkness, while Therkla's story occurs during the events of War and XPs. I felt that using a fraction for the book number properly suggested the fact that book could legitimately be shelved in several different places, chronologically speaking.

[Kardwill]

You could have found that out back in April, though.

Seriously, didn't really read the announcement. For me, it was just "Oooh, new shiny OOTS book" *Grab*
I didn't want to risk getting to much information about it before I read the book. And that paid off : discovering O'Chul's story last night "cold", without even knowing how frikkin' long it was, was awesome
(And somewhat unwise : reading until 2 AM when I have to wake up at 6 AM is not as easy now as it was 30 years ago )

[Peelee]

Seriously, didn't really read the announcement. For me, it was just "Oooh, new shiny OOTS book" *Grab*
I didn't want to risk getting to much information about it before I read the book. And that paid off : discovering O'Chul's story last night "cold", without even knowing how frikkin' long it was, was awesome
(And somewhat unwise : reading until 2 AM when I have to wake up at 6 AM is not as easy now as it was 30 years ago )

I getcha. On the bright side, the Giant did mention long food project a lot and wanting to do more stories in its vein, IIRC, but I can't for the life of me doing that quote to link.

[LadyEowyn]

I'm not sure exactly how long ago Scar was set, other than it being at least six years ago (Hinjo isn't 18 yet, and he's 23 in War and XPs).

Gin-Jun says in Scar that his last chance at destroying the Crimson Mantle - in what is clearly the massacre of Redcloak's village - was 22 years ago. SOD says that was 34 years before the start of DCF.

So that would suggest Scar happens 12 years before DCF, but that doesn't fit with Hinjo's (or Miko's) age at all - Hinjo comes across as maybe 15-16 in Scar, at youngest. I think we just have to accept the Giant's comment in the preface to GDGU that he's not very good at timelines.

Where does War&XP mention Hinjo's age?

[Unbodied]

Jirinx is probably not the former Supreme Leader since O-chul and he would have recognized each other. But I wonder if he might have been a protege/follower of the former Supreme Leader, and might have his own plans for where to take Gobbotopia, preferably without pointless wars and conflict.

For example maybe he will make diplomatic contact with Hinjo to work on sealing the rifts with new Gates, because he is not comfortable with his people living right beneath a massive hole in reality that could at any moment start spewing out a god-slaying string monster. Maybe a way to solve the Gate dilemma and lack of secrecy going forward is to set up a MAD situation. Sure the Goblins have a Gate and can move it, but the elves also get a Gate and can move that, and the dwarves get a Gate which they can move, and the Northern Lands also gets a Gate, and the Western Lands. Nobody can use their Gate because then someone else would use their Gate against them.