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2018-09-04, 12:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
I really don't understand what point you're trying to make here.
You shouldn't play artifacts yourself, because you might shoot them? Why don't you just, not do that?
You can't play it for more than there are targetable artifacts, so having artifacts will only provide you with the option of exchanging your artifacts for tokens, at no downside compared to having no artifacts.
You're right that an opponent can't sac artifacts to make you target. You play the card, pay the cost, and announce the targets, all before your opponents get priority.
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2018-09-04, 09:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
I really don't understand the logic behind this - there's nothing in Release the Gremlins that punishes you in any way for having artifacts of your own. You don't have to target any if you don't want to, and if you do want to, it's an upside.
It'll only ever be bad if none of your opponents play artifacts - whether you play any of your own or not - though from my understanding, mana rocks are very common in EDH, so there should always be some targets.This signature is boring. The stuff I write might not be. Warning: Ponies.
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2018-09-04, 03:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
Last edited by mythmonster2; 2018-09-04 at 03:57 PM.
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2018-09-04, 03:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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2018-09-04, 07:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
if you are really worried about that situation, then you could run things like Mycosynth Wellspring or Ichor Wellspring so you get more value from destroying your own stuff.
"Three blokes walk into a pub. One of them is a little bit stupid, and the whole scene unfolds with a tedious inevitability." - Bill Bailey
Androgeus' 3 step guide to Doctor Who speculation:
Spoiler- Pick a random character
- State that person is The Rani
- goto 1
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2018-09-04, 08:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
Release the Gremlins does not say "up to X target artifacts", it says "X target artifacts". If your opponent has two artifacts and you pay 7 mana (X=3), you MUST target one of your own if you have one. It's still valid even if there aren't enough valid targets, but you can't choose to spare your own artifacts if you run out of valid targets on the opponent's board.
Compare Reckless Spite. You can cast it when there's only one valid target and it'll destroy that target, but if there's exactly two valid target then you've got to destroy both of them no matter where they are.
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2018-09-04, 08:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
Last edited by Androgeus; 2018-09-04 at 08:21 PM.
"Three blokes walk into a pub. One of them is a little bit stupid, and the whole scene unfolds with a tedious inevitability." - Bill Bailey
Androgeus' 3 step guide to Doctor Who speculation:
Spoiler- Pick a random character
- State that person is The Rani
- goto 1
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2018-09-04, 08:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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2018-09-04, 08:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
I think you're getting confused about the rules about casting spells and choosing their targets - there is no window of time inbetween you determining the value for X and choosing the targets; you do both when you cast the spell. Your opponent can sacrifice or bounce or otherwise get rid of an artifact you're targeting after you've cast the spell, but that will NOT result in you having to choose a different target. Release the Gremlins will simply target the remaining artifacts (but still make the original number of gremlins), unless all of the targets disappear prior to resolution, in which case Release the Gremlins "fizzles", is countered (in which case it won't make any gremlins either).
There is literally no set of circumstances in which you could possibly be forced to destroy one of your own artifacts against your will as a result of playing Release the Gremlins - you pick all the targets, and you control how big X is.This signature is boring. The stuff I write might not be. Warning: Ponies.
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2018-09-04, 10:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
What happens if your opponents doesn't happen to have any artifacts in their deck? Or maybe just a one-of thrown in somewhere that may never hit the field. Imagine it's 5-8 turns in and you've yet to see any artifacts on your opponent's board. You've got two Release the Gremlins sitting in your hand. How are you feeling right now?
If you go back to my first post though, you'll see a handy little line about how "fortunately, I don't believe there's a window where between paying the mana and choosing the artifacts where a savvy foe could sac one or two of their artifacts to make you nuke your own if you have them, so there's that at least". But if you're going to include four copies of Release the Gremlins, you've got to be prepared for the situation where there's not many artifacts in the opponent's deck to start with, and that means avoiding relying on artifacts on your side of the board too much or having it be a dead draw. To me, the whole value of the card is that it's potent artifact hate that can function without artifacts to hate on, since seven mana for three 2/2's isn't all that far off of a kicked Saproling Migration and could help you sneak around blockers for some critical late-game damage, or chump for a few turns while you draw your win.
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2018-09-04, 10:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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2018-09-04, 11:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
If your opponents don't have any artifacts in Commander, you're probably pretty happy about that situation already, so you won't mind having a Release the Gremlins for whenever they draw them. I don't think you have to worry too much about having your own artifacts so you can make gremlins; destroying artifacts is really the reason to play Release the Gremlins anyways. If you want the creatures, you're better off playing some other card.
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2018-09-05, 09:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
If there is only two artifacts on the board, you can't play it for X=3, because there's not enough targets.
It's written in the rulings for the card on gatherer too.
Compare Reckless Spite. You can cast it when there's only one valid target and it'll destroy that target, but if there's exactly two valid target then you've got to destroy both of them no matter where they are.
You can never cast a card if you can't choose enough legal targets.
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2018-09-05, 12:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
Slow down for a moment, please.
Do you understand the context in which Release the Gremlins was even brought up in the thread? It was only ever in the discussion for EDH. That is, Elder Dragon Highlander - a format in which you can only have a singular copy of a card in your deck.
Outside of EDH there isn't even a discussion about having Release the Gremlins in your deck. You either want a sideboard card that can destroy a lot of artifacts on the cheap, like Vandalblast, By Force or Shattering Spree, or you want much more potent token makers, like Kuldotha's Rebirth. Release the Gremlins is unlikely to see a sniff of anyone's maindeck outside of EDH, let alone as a four-of, for all the reasons you mentioned. You're tilting at windmills.Last edited by Silfir; 2018-09-05 at 12:25 PM.
This signature is boring. The stuff I write might not be. Warning: Ponies.
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2018-09-05, 02:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
This is correct. Release The Gremlins is principally a multi-target artifact destruction card with the added gravy of also giving you token creatures. If the plan is to generate big mana and get a whole bunch of tokens, play Goblin Offensive or whatever instead.
Whether Release The Gremlins will be a useful and reliable maindeck choice or routinely a dead/underwhelming draw is entirely down to the metagame you're using it in. It seems like Commander should often provide plenty of targets, particularly since it's generally a multiplayer format. However, if the particular playgroup isn't big on artifacts then maybe not.Allergy advice: posts may contain traces of sarcasm
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2018-09-05, 04:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
It seems like a card that gets better the more overpowered the group is, like Mox Monkey (gorilla shaman) it lets you cheaply blow up the $1000 mana rocks.
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2018-09-06, 01:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
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2018-09-07, 01:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
Which guild do you think is the cheapest in the upcoming GoR? I want to get into paper but the card prices are quite daunting. I was thinking about szarting off with green stompy, but Carnage Tyrants for 15 Dollars a pop hurt a tad.
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2018-09-07, 02:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
Mono green stompy is likely to be one of the cheaper competitive decks. Tyrant is expensive, sure, but not needing to run shocklands will make monocolour a lot more budget than any multicolour combination. Of the monocolour options, green is already established as having a reasonable number of playable cards (Steel Leaf Champion, Ghalta, Tyrant, Llanowar Elves, etc) while the other monocolour deck with any prevalence right now (red) is losing a lot of its powerful cards to rotation when GRN comes out.
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2018-09-07, 07:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
While Carnage Tyrant is a very good card, you also don't really need more than, like, 2 if you don't want to spend that much money. Sure, it's better than a lot of the other cards, but it's not so much better you can't save a few bucks. If you're playing at FNM, there are certainly suitable substitutes that will treat you just fine.
Also the shock lands aren't going to be too expensive if the prices of other Standard-legal lands are any indication, and picking them up will serve you well down the road since they're staples in Modern and some of them are played in even older formats. Deciding to play, say, GB or UB wouldn't be a terrible idea, you'd just have to be willing to lay down some money for your playset.
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2018-09-17, 02:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
That's what sideboarding is for. You either know what sort of stuff they're running (you've played against it before), you know the environment you're playing in (eg Kaladesh block and Mirrodin block were both superladen with artifacts), or you're including it to exploit your own stuff. Yeah, it can be sucky to be sitting with a "dead hand", but that's a) part of the learning curve about building decks b) entirely statistically possible.
So for generations did the sainted skull of Caius Anicius Magnus Furius Camillus Æmilianus Cornelius Valerius Pompeius Julius Ibidus, consul of Rome, favourite of emperors, and saint of the Romish church, lie hidden beneath the soil of a growing town. At first worshipped with dark rites by the prairie-dogs, who saw in it a deity sent from the upper world..
- H.P. Lovecraft, "Ibid".
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2018-09-17, 02:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
So for generations did the sainted skull of Caius Anicius Magnus Furius Camillus Æmilianus Cornelius Valerius Pompeius Julius Ibidus, consul of Rome, favourite of emperors, and saint of the Romish church, lie hidden beneath the soil of a growing town. At first worshipped with dark rites by the prairie-dogs, who saw in it a deity sent from the upper world..
- H.P. Lovecraft, "Ibid".
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2018-09-17, 04:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
Thats probably the most fair Mycosinth Lattice use I've ever heard of... Usually I see it comboed with Vandalblast.
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2018-09-17, 06:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
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2018-09-17, 06:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
Nah, March is worse, because that prevents them from ever playing any lands, and blows up the ones already in play. It effectively locks them out of the game entirely. Vandalblast they can at least rebuild from
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2018-09-17, 07:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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2018-09-17, 11:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
What I want to see is Mycosynth Lattice + Bludgeon Brawl + Vulshock Battlemaster. I have no idea what it would look like on MTGO, but it would be hilarious...
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2018-09-17, 12:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
That's why you don't build a March/Lattice deck without lots of rocks and/or dorks? The reason symmetrical effects are unfair is because you build your deck to take advantage of it, where your opponents haven't. If you're likely to lock yourself out, you don't play it until later.
Last edited by Svata; 2018-09-17 at 12:44 PM.
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2018-09-17, 12:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
Mycosynth Lattice + Karn Silver Golem with a side of Darksteel Forge is still the best. Straight colorless so slots into any deck AND you can targeted removal the lands of those whom defy you.
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2018-09-17, 04:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern
Unless you're only targeting Moxes a lot of these are roughly the same cost. Compare to
Manic Vandal
Viashino Heretic
Ruinous Gremlin
Viridian shaman
etc.
Now, if you only want a sweeper then By Force should be a higher priority. If you feel you need to zap one thing over and over there's things like Shattering Pulse.