Schlock Mercenary VIII: insAIne in the mAInfrAIme

[Grim Portent]

The Oafans probably do have the tech too, since they were being forcibly uploaded to computer storage. I doubt they'd use it precisely for that reason though, most of them were essentially kidnapped and locked up for millennia using that exact technology.

Also is anyone else puzzled that we've had no mention of any of the computerised Oafans being restored to meat bodies? All the ones we've seen just decided to be ship AIs and all the meat ones have been resurrected corpses.

[Ibrinar]

Btw aren't their immortality nanites capable of uploading backups anyway?

[Grim Portent]

That depends on if their backup storage is also in the system. Not much good having savestates if they get blown up with you.

That and the comic considers there to be a meaningful stream of consciousness this method preserves as opposed to just booting up an older copy as a replacement.

Though I wonder what's to stop the nannies just rebooting the bodies left behind? It's all intact and the nannies should still have a backup stored locally in the body. So what happens when they poke the brain to get it going again?

[Doran]

Maybe they don’t all have nanites or the time to resurrection will be longer then the time to blast wave.

[halfeye]

That depends on if their backup storage is also in the system. Not much good having savestates if they get blown up with you.

That and the comic considers there to be a meaningful stream of consciousness this method preserves as opposed to just booting up an older copy as a replacement.

Though I wonder what's to stop the nannies just rebooting the bodies left behind? It's all intact and the nannies should still have a backup stored locally in the body. So what happens when they poke the brain to get it going again?

If the nanites do attempt a restoration, then they're crisped in four minutes from the initial quasi-nova, unless they're on the far side of the planet, then who knows?

[DeTess]

Hmm, interesting. It seems to me like Petey is going to attempt something to save the planet as a whole, and if successful, terraport everyone back to their bodies. Not quite the bait-and-switch I'd been expecting regarding the soul-sucker, but still an interesting way to approach this.

[memnarch]

Hmm, interesting. It seems to me like Petey is going to attempt something to save the planet as a whole, and if successful, terraport everyone back to their bodies. Not quite the bait-and-switch I'd been expecting regarding the soul-sucker, but still an interesting way to approach this.

Maybe he's going to try something like this? (and the following comics discussing protecting the planet)

[HandofShadows]

Btw aren't their immortality nanites capable of uploading backups anyway?

Those backups are copies of the person's memories and is not the original person. What is being done here is the person themselves is being uploaded (and the body dies). So it's not a copy as with the immortality nanites.

[Ibrinar]

Unless they are ported into identical but empty bodies they are likely placed into a computer, declaring that not a copy is a silly cop out imo.

[Radar]

Unless they are ported into identical but empty bodies they are likely placed into a computer, declaring that not a copy is a silly cop out imo.

Not really, since it was already established before that there is a difference between memories and a consciousness stream. One of the moments, where this distinction was spelled out was, when the UNS officer uploaded himself to a sleeper agent on Earth.

[The Glyphstone]

Even he says it's a "copy" of himself though.

[Radar]

Even he says it's a "copy" of himself though.

True, since he also needs to stay behind. Gate-cloning also creates a new cnsciousness. Still, Kowalski from before splicing is fretting that he will end up in the exendable agent, so it is much more then memory upload. He was actually cloning his consciousness there.

Another strip pointing on the difference is this one.

[The Glyphstone]

True, since he also needs to stay behind. Gate-cloning also creates a new cnsciousness. Still, Kowalski from before splicing is fretting that he will end up in the exendable agent, so it is much more then memory upload. He was actually cloning his consciousness there.

Another strip pointing on the difference is this one.

I was more under the impression that the cloning is so perfect, Copywalski won't know he is a duplicate at first. That was what it seemed like in the next page, where he taunts the "copy" only to learn that he is in fact the copy:

https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2014-06-07

Later on, Copywalksi's self-image diverges from the original to reflect how he's changed inside.

[factotum]

Hmmmm. So it seems like this was definitely Oafan technology that was used, but still unclear if it was Petey or the Oafan AI who "pulled the trigger", as it were.

The real issue here: to the outside world it's going to LOOK like Petey or whoever just genocided the entire planet. I imagine there'll be some consequences for that.

[Wayson]

Hmmmm. So it seems like this was definitely Oafan technology that was used, but still unclear if it was Petey or the Oafan AI who "pulled the trigger", as it were.

The real issue here: to the outside world it's going to LOOK like Petey or whoever just genocided the entire planet. I imagine there'll be some consequences for that.

I don't think it's Oafan tech, any more than a sharp stick today is Sumerian tech. If I'm remembering right, Kevyn discovered it independently, and only later became aware of the technological principle's previous usage by both the Oafans and the All-Star. (And who knows how many others.)

Petey *did* just genocide the entire planet. The fact that he protected people's corpses while literally harvesting their souls isn't going to mitigate the sudden realization by defense planners everywhere that 1) it's possible to use the teraport to instantly wipe out all sapient life on a planet with zero damage to the infrastructure, and 2) someone has that weapon and has used it.

This is going to be the Teraport Wars turned up to 11.

[factotum]

I don't think it's Oafan tech, any more than a sharp stick today is Sumerian tech.

Today's strip implies it *is* Oafan tech, considering Petey says they helped him do it (and it confirms it was actually Petey who pulled the trigger). Kevyn developed the teraport in the modern era, but I don't remember him ever thinking up this particular application of it.

[HorizonWalker]

Today's strip implies it *is* Oafan tech, considering Petey says they helped him do it (and it confirms it was actually Petey who pulled the trigger). Kevyn developed the teraport in the modern era, but I don't remember him ever thinking up this particular application of it.

He did, in fact. Petey asks K-Prime to talk about his current project. Next page, K-Prime describes the soulgig mechanism. First referred to as a soulgig here.

[factotum]

OK, consider me wrong, then!

[sihnfahl]

The fact that he protected people's corpses while literally harvesting their souls isn't going to mitigate the sudden realization by defense planners everywhere that 1) it's possible to use the teraport to instantly wipe out all sapient life on a planet with zero damage to the infrastructure, and 2) someone has that weapon and has used it.

Oh, it's going to give more than defense planners fits.

Knock out a ship's teraport denial and soulgig the crew (including the AI). Then jack copies of your people onto the wet + hardware.

And since you have their minds on your system? Ripe for a mindrip.

[HouseRules]

Teraport actually kills a person and makes a copy at another location after physically moving the baryonic matter through wormholes.
While some may think of continuity, reality is that it is not a continuity at all.
How can you distinguish a copy from an original if a copy can only be made when the original is killed?
It is easy to distinguish a copy from an original if both the original and the copy exist simultaneously.

[HandofShadows]

Teraport actually kills a person and makes a copy at another location after physically moving the baryonic matter through wormholes.
While some may think of continuity, reality is that it is not a continuity at all.
How can you distinguish a copy from an original if a copy can only be made when the original is killed?
It is easy to distinguish a copy from an original if both the original and the copy exist simultaneously.

See HorizonWalker's post above. Kevyn describes the mechanism of how it works.

[HorizonWalker]

See HorizonWalker's post above. Kevyn describes the mechanism of how it works.

No, they're not talking about the soulgig, they're talking about the vanilla teraport. It's the teleport continuity problem- if you get taken apart and put back together someplace else, is it still you?

And usually, the answer is "who cares," and the reason the soulgig is different is because the soulgig produces corpses, and the teraport does not.

[HandofShadows]

No, they're not talking about the soulgig, they're talking about the vanilla teraport. It's the teleport continuity problem- if you get taken apart and put back together someplace else, is it still you?

This is a subject people have been talking about since at least the time of Star Trek if not way before.

[factotum]

They've even talked about it in-comic--the Reverend had a discussion about it many years ago, although I think it was referring to resurrection by nanites, not the teraport.

[Willie the Duck]

This is a subject people have been talking about since at least the time of Star Trek if not way before.

Probably whenever proto-humanity evolved the ability to formulate hypothetical situations.

[sihnfahl]

Probably whenever proto-humanity evolved the ability to formulate hypothetical situations.

On the nature of consciousness, existence, self and death.

I seem to recall an old book that asked the same question SM is asking now - if we transfer a living beings' consciousness from the existing meat to, say, an immortal android body, would that still be the same person, or just a robot that believes it's that person because it has the same knowledge and neural structure as the original.

Granted, it was a little more, uh, destructive. The methodology was that a robot surgeon would remove the top of an individual's skull and copy the neural structures micrometer by micrometer, then a 3D printer would lay out the structure in non-organic form. It was ... destructive in that process; as each micrometer was formed in the cyborg body, the organic original would be sloughed off....

Oh, and to add to the Nightmare Fuel? The patient would be awake for the process, as the organic and cyborg would be linked to ensure a good copy. So the part of the brain that was destroyed by the copy would be 'tested' via linkage. Which meant the patient would have to fulfill tasks ... with their head cut open and their brain slowly being destroyed.

[HandofShadows]

I seem to recall an old book that asked the same question SM is asking now - if we transfer a living beings' consciousness from the existing meat to, say, an immortal android body, would that still be the same person, or just a robot that believes it's that person because it has the same knowledge and neural structure as the original.

Well the fact that knowledge and neural structure being copied tells the story. It's a copy. With Teraports the original material is being moved from one location to another. All the original parts are there, just in a different form for transit.

[Willie the Duck]

Well the fact that knowledge and neural structure being copied tells the story. It's a copy.
With Teraports the original material is being moved from one location to another. All the original parts are there, just in a different form for transit.

And whether that is important or not is the very conceptual point being explored. If I and my simulacrum both remember being the person I was an instant ago, is the fact that one of us actually (historically) was that person (as in had most of the same atoms) meaningful?

[Ibrinar]

Whether being a copy is the deciding factor is a matter of opinion. If I have two copies of Good Omens before me they aren't the same book they contain the same story though. I for one consider the "story/content" (memories, opinions, way of thinking etc.) what defines a person not the matter that carries them. Now that leads to the questions over who is the real one when you have multiple, but personally I consider them the same person when they are created like I consider both copies of Good Omens the same story.

[Max_Killjoy]

Are you your body, or are you the sum of your thoughts and experiences and memories? Or both?