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2023-10-12, 09:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2023
Re: Baldur's Gate 3 II: The Urge for a Second Playthrough
It's going to be prohibitively difficult for modders to make content that matches the polish of this game's presentation, so I'd definitely prefer if they invested in professional funded teams.
"Same Engine Sequel" is a bit misleading as a colloquial term, and standalone expansion is probably the better one. Like both Fallout New Vegas and Fallout 4 are being made in versions of the same engine, but only New Vegas is a "same engine sequel" because it doesn't have a massive overhaul of the graphics and gameplay and just builds a new game around the same core assets and mechanics.
I was thinking Icewind Dale would be real easy to do. You could get away with not writing any bespoke companions and probably get it finished a lot quicker.Last edited by Errorname; 2023-10-12 at 09:07 PM.
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2023-10-12, 09:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Baldur's Gate 3 II: The Urge for a Second Playthrough
Haven't played either of those games, but eh, depends on what they want to do with the sequel I suppose. Core gameplay mechanics don't need any big redesign, since it'll surely still be 5e D&D. Visually, on them if they want to change things up a bit, though I don't see much need for it at this moment.
While I've enjoyed Icewind Dale 2 over the years, I would far rather they make a better game than one they can churn out quicker. And not having unique companions would definitely make it a much worse game, not a better one.Toph Pony avatar by Dirtytabs. Thanks!
"When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty, I read them openly. When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." -C.S. Lewis
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2023-10-12, 09:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Baldur's Gate 3 II: The Urge for a Second Playthrough
I'm optimistic because things like graphical fidelity are finally starting to plateau. Devs won't be pushed to chase graphical increases as much as they have been in generations past, which is one of the big sources of throwing out engines and starting over.
Baldurs Gate 2 released in the year 2000 on the Infinity Engine. 2 years later, two D&D games came out - Icewind Dale 2 (also Infinity Engine) and Neverwinter Nights, on the Aurora Engine. NWN absolutely trounced IW2 in sales. That's not to say that IW2 did badly, but a publisher being interested in signing off on a a sequel project won't have to weigh such considerations if the engine is largely the same.
In chasing new engines, sometimes devs run into problems too, such as the bugginess of the Electron Engine or the massive workflow problems with Frostbite.
Well sure, but I don't need Larian near-perfection on everything. What I'd like is to experience some of the older D&D titles I missed from my childhood, without having to wrestle with obsolete editions or Dosbox.Last edited by Psyren; 2023-10-12 at 09:47 PM.
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2023-10-12, 09:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2009
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- In my library
Re: Baldur's Gate 3 II: The Urge for a Second Playthrough
**** the lifts in the Temple, it's a pain to get all four characters on them and they killed Shadowheart twice. Also redoing the end of the temple tomorrow because I am not running the risk of not seeing Abigail Thorn's NPC (no shutup you have a celeb crysh!).
Also the sex scenes are very much not designed with Small races in mind.
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2023-10-12, 10:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2023
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2023-10-12, 11:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2008
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Re: Baldur's Gate 3 II: The Urge for a Second Playthrough
I can't agree personally, I think you lose way too much without good companion characters. It would be far too much of a step down to put out a game without any. They provide a lot of the game's best stories and moments, and are generally more memorable than any other element of it.
Plus, I've seen the end result of doing it in at least one other series I can think of: Dragon Quest. Dragon Quest 9 had a full party of create-a-characters, and it just lost so much of the personality and charm of other games in the series for lack of any defined protagonists, it made it so much more forgettable than 8 or 11, or even some of the older games in the series. It's just not a good idea.Toph Pony avatar by Dirtytabs. Thanks!
"When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty, I read them openly. When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." -C.S. Lewis
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2023-10-12, 11:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2023
Re: Baldur's Gate 3 II: The Urge for a Second Playthrough
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2023-10-13, 12:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2016
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2023-10-13, 06:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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Re: Baldur's Gate 3 II: The Urge for a Second Playthrough
That's basically just Solasta. Which is a fine combat simulator with a sort of story linking the stabby bits. Honestly they tried as hard as I think you realistically can to make interesting conversations with all custom characters, since everybody gets their own sets of tags and likes/dislikes, but it's pretty flat in practice.
Blood-red were his spurs i' the golden noon; wine-red was his velvet coat,
When they shot him down on the highway,
Down like a dog on the highway,And he lay in his blood on the highway, with the bunch of lace at his throat.
Alfred Noyes, The Highwayman, 1906.
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2023-10-13, 07:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2023
Re: Baldur's Gate 3 II: The Urge for a Second Playthrough
Yeah, I think if you actually wanted to do an Icewind Dale 3 giving you the option to you customize the party if you want to, but also having robust and well developed premade characters is the obvious best option, especially considering current expectations. That's basically what Pillars of Eternity did and considering where Sawyer and co cut their teeth that's basically an Icewind Dale successor already, especially the expansion.
Last edited by Errorname; 2023-10-13 at 07:22 AM.
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2023-10-13, 10:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: Baldur's Gate 3 II: The Urge for a Second Playthrough
All the more reason why Larian themselves shouldn't do it. Instead, if they provide campaign tools, the community will likely set out to make conversions, retroclones, and spinoffs without harming Larian's own brand.
I played around with NWN's campaign tools WAY back in the day, and speaking just for myself, I would be 10x more likely to learn a less buggy engine like Divinity/a more streamlined system like 5e, especially with much stronger modding communities nowadays via Nexus and Discord.
I thought Iron Bull and Blackwall were handled well, and Josephine is pretty tame anyways. Not sure about Cullen, Cassandra, and Sera. (And obviously Solas is... well, racist.)
I'd say Solasta was understandably very cautious because the OGL was shaky ground to build a CRPG on. Now that the 5e SRD is in Creative Commons I would expect their next attempt to be a bigger swing - particularly given that (a) they've done the hard part of digitizing the rules and (b) BG3 has proven there's a huge addressable market for this sort of thing.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2023-10-13, 10:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2016
Re: Baldur's Gate 3 II: The Urge for a Second Playthrough
Blackwall and my dwarf woman was hilariously bad. Half the time, she was apparently levitating or standing on a stack of phonebooks and the horizontal scenes were worse. It basically didn't acknowledge the height differences at all and treated her model as human sized. BG3 isn't perfect but it makes an explicit point of noticing that you're 2-3' smaller than your partner (at least with SH, Astarion and Karlach)
Last edited by Jophiel; 2023-10-13 at 10:39 AM.
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2023-10-13, 10:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2009
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- In my library
Re: Baldur's Gate 3 II: The Urge for a Second Playthrough
It's all fine until the part where I think it was meant to be implying penetration. If it was meant to still be foreplay then it works, if not I'm very obviously nowhere near Karlach's ladybits. Like there were a couple of minor issues before that but not ones I'm convinced a half-orc wouldn't have.
OTOH them getting down on their knees to kiss you is done so much better than in Dragon Age, but I still want a stepladder.
Also Karlach is such an utter dork when it comes to romance stuff. It makes sense, she's been stuck somewhere where she hasn't had a partner or even a friend for ten years, and there's so far no word on if she had any partners before all that, but it's still ADORABLE.
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2023-10-13, 10:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2016
Re: Baldur's Gate 3 II: The Urge for a Second Playthrough
My character with Karlach is female so I'll trust you (and can believe) that it's less convincing when poking is involved. I don't remember her and Astarion being poorly done but, for all my responses, I'm not terribly invested in the nudie bits. Not to imply anyone else is overly invested but it might have been lacking and I just didn't notice.
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2023-10-13, 10:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2007
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- San Antonio, Texas
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Re: Baldur's Gate 3 II: The Urge for a Second Playthrough
I do think a game like IWD might be interesting for the engine, but IWD 1&2 border on being adventure games... sure, you make your characters, but very few of your choices have an impact on either game... I honestly cannot think of any choices, in either game, which matter. You might get a touch more dialogue with some characters, but otherwise?
The Cranky Gamer
*It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude; the appearance of truth within the framework of the game.
*Picard management tip: Debate honestly. The goal is to arrive at the truth, not at your preconception.
*Mutant Dawn for Savage Worlds!
*The One Deck Engine: Gaming on a budget
Written by Me on DriveThru RPG
There are almost 400,000 threads on this site. If you need me to address a thread as a moderator, include a link.
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2023-10-13, 11:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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Re: Baldur's Gate 3 II: The Urge for a Second Playthrough
Solasta didn't use the SRD/OGL, they had a specific license from WoTC. Nor, when they made the game, was the SRD particularly insecure, several games had used it in the past without controversy.
Really I think Solasta ended up being Solasta because they didn't have near the budget of BG3, they had to build out the rules and engine modifications from more or less scratch, and it was always meant to be a combat focused game with a pretty light story. If anything is going to rock the boat for a potential Solasta 2, it's going to be Unity turning out to be radically untrustworthy, which creates a substantial incentive to move to an engine whose contract isn't governed by Darth Vader rules.Blood-red were his spurs i' the golden noon; wine-red was his velvet coat,
When they shot him down on the highway,
Down like a dog on the highway,And he lay in his blood on the highway, with the bunch of lace at his throat.
Alfred Noyes, The Highwayman, 1906.
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2023-10-13, 11:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2016
Re: Baldur's Gate 3 II: The Urge for a Second Playthrough
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2023-10-13, 11:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2009
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- In my library
Re: Baldur's Gate 3 II: The Urge for a Second Playthrough
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2023-10-13, 11:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: Baldur's Gate 3 II: The Urge for a Second Playthrough
Fair enough - I only saw the barn and bedroom scenes myself so there may have been jankier ones I missed
They originally began development using the OGL but then sought a specific license to cover their bases. Now thanks to CC, they don't have to keep doing that (unless their private license terms require it for any future titles using that branding.) If nothing else, it will give them and any future devs a much stronger bargaining position.
I mean, I can't argue with thatPlague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2023-10-13, 06:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2009
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- In my library
Re: Baldur's Gate 3 II: The Urge for a Second Playthrough
Managed to avoid stabbing Karlach in her sleep, then she tied me up so I couldn't stab her in her sleep, praise Yondalla for Wisdom saving throw proficiency. It's actually a pretty dang nice scene, really sweet.
Shame that the quest markets at the end of Act 2 accidentally sent me to the wrong end of the map! On the other hand I respecced Shadowheart into a Light Cleric and she's so much easier to use, she's still got her control spells but also gets to join the fireball squadron.
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2023-10-14, 06:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2023
Re: Baldur's Gate 3 II: The Urge for a Second Playthrough
Realizing Raphael might be my favourite character in this game
Spoiler: ACT 3 SpoilersThe only thing better than a good boss theme is a good boss theme with lyrics, and the only thing better than that is a good boss theme with lyrics sung by the boss.Last edited by Errorname; 2023-10-14 at 06:08 AM.
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2023-10-14, 10:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2008
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Re: Baldur's Gate 3 II: The Urge for a Second Playthrough
Huh. I'm starting to think I may have somehow prevented Lae'zel's act 1 romance scene from triggering? I told her the interest is mutual when the subject was brought up pretty early, but since then it's been non-stop other scenes taking priority when I rest. The Guardian scenes, Dark Urge scenes, Lae'zel vs Shadowheart, Astarion, etc. Finally hit one without another scene triggering, and this time, no scene triggered at all. I do have the option to tell her I'm "ending our fling" when I talk to her, so the romance is flagged, but nothing else has happened.
(Didn't get it at the party because I did Karlach's scene there instead. Been figuring this character, being a Githyanki, would be a lot looser about sleeping with people, but would aim to actually end up in a relationship with Karlach.)
Also, finally had my first fight that was noticeably harder on Tactician than on Balanced.
Spoiler: UnderdarkThe guardian of the adamantine forge. Holy crap, that thing gets so much more health on Tactician, and is so much more consistent about actually hitting my characters. I would up actually deciding that trying to lure it to the big hammer in the middle wasn't worth it, because giving it AoOs was killing me, and the Mephits that summons was a problem too. So I just had Karlach (Monk) and Shadowheart (Vengeance Paladin with a hammer) beat it into submission with Twinned Haste cast on them by my Sorcerer. A little luck on saves vs its ground pound and that worked out. Still took a lot of damage doing it, but it got the job done at least.
Eh, anything of that sort that they do won't affect me, being a console gamer. I just care what the developers themselves do next.
Light Clerics are so good, yeah. Though personally I actually didn't use Fireball much with mine. Partially because it's nerfed (it has like half the area that it should), and partially because Spirit Guardians is an arguably even better use of your 3rd-level spell slots (and often 4th, considering how few 4th-level Cleric spells in the game are actually worth casting most of the time). Once you get to 9th level though Destructive Wave is amazing, a shame that spell is normally Paladin-only, and thus locked behind being a ridiculously high level since Paladins take forever to get 5th-level spells. And they might have the best Channel Divinity in the game. A 2/short rest large radiant AoE that scales as you level, doesn't hit allies, and doesn't use a resource you generally need for anything else is just fantastically useful, even if it's not hitting for Fireball-level damage. And at low levels I even found Flaming Sphere useful, since this game makes it work like a summon instead of the awkward way it does in normal 5e.Toph Pony avatar by Dirtytabs. Thanks!
"When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty, I read them openly. When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." -C.S. Lewis
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2023-10-14, 10:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2009
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- In my library
Re: Baldur's Gate 3 II: The Urge for a Second Playthrough
Why on earth does the game insist on having companions take the lead in conversations at the most random times? I get to the circus, finally make my way round to Dribbles the Clown despite the ridiculous lag, and suddenly the game decides that I want Halsin to do the talking.
Now I have to sit through the incredibly long load process and go through the entire circus AGAIN just to see Halsin's reactions.
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2023-10-14, 11:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2013
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Re: Baldur's Gate 3 II: The Urge for a Second Playthrough
Usually its because the NPC is initiating the dialogue with whoever is closest. 80% of the time that will be the controlled character, but in areas like the circus where things are more open, you can crash into their spheres of dialogue by accident with one of your wingmen.
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2023-10-14, 11:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Baldur's Gate 3 II: The Urge for a Second Playthrough
I absolutely HATE that. I have a lead character for a reason. They have the talky proficiencies, the Charisma, heck they are my character, so I'd rather the game was programmed to approach me, regardless of who triggered it, unless there is a specific reason (qv Lae'zel with gith unless you, yourself, are gith)
The Cranky Gamer
*It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude; the appearance of truth within the framework of the game.
*Picard management tip: Debate honestly. The goal is to arrive at the truth, not at your preconception.
*Mutant Dawn for Savage Worlds!
*The One Deck Engine: Gaming on a budget
Written by Me on DriveThru RPG
There are almost 400,000 threads on this site. If you need me to address a thread as a moderator, include a link.
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2023-10-14, 01:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2009
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- In my library
Re: Baldur's Gate 3 II: The Urge for a Second Playthrough
It really doesn't seem like it would have been hard to default to the currently selected character, only about one of the party members even has proficiency in social skills.
And sometimes it literally just bugs out, one time I entered the main room of Moonrise Towers and it switched control to Shadowheart.
Even in those situations I'd rather the game run them, it tends to keep to a more consistent personality.
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2023-10-15, 04:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: Baldur's Gate 3 II: The Urge for a Second Playthrough
Grabbed two more mods for my list:
- Wyll's Mirror: Reverts Wyll to his pre-horns look. (I always found it a bit silly that his appearanceSpoileronce inflicted, stays unchanged regardless of pact status.)
- Ritual Casting for Wizards: Wizards no longer have to prep their ritual spells to use them. That gives me constant access to handy things like Feather Fall and Longstrider while letting me prep other things instead.
I'm also debating the Muscular Dragonborn mod, but I'll probably leave that for my next non-origin durge playthrough. (Is there a mod to let your Guardian be a Dragonborn? Why isn't that a vanilla option?)
I'm still on the lookout for more good ones!Last edited by Psyren; 2023-10-15 at 12:26 PM.
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2023-10-15, 07:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2023
Re: Baldur's Gate 3 II: The Urge for a Second Playthrough
I get that it's meant to be a permanent transformation and honestly I love the concept of having a companion who gets really messed up by a curse, but it really looks bad. Like aesthetically unappealing in a way that I don't think it's meant to, and I know Larian can make horns and black sclera look good! Feels like they went too far and not far enough at the same time.
It also happens really early so he'll spend basically all the game like that and averting it requires you to sacrifice another companion character.
If I had to guess it's lipsync reasons, I think the dragonborn use a different rig.
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2023-10-15, 07:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
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Re: Baldur's Gate 3 II: The Urge for a Second Playthrough
The whole "closest character does dialogue" thing is a weirdly regressive thing for BG3. It's not like basically every other RPG in the modern era doesn't have solutions for it.
And in BG3 where they otherwise try and go for the D&D experience and at the table getting the other players to butt out even if they're not there is the challenge sometimes (especially if it's something relevant to their character).
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2023-10-15, 11:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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- Tail of the Bellcurve
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Re: Baldur's Gate 3 II: The Urge for a Second Playthrough
It's worth remembering that BG3 is also co-op, so every party is treated like the PC because from the game's POV, and of them can be a PC. Hence also I suspect things like no pooled gold supply and per-character trading.
Blood-red were his spurs i' the golden noon; wine-red was his velvet coat,
When they shot him down on the highway,
Down like a dog on the highway,And he lay in his blood on the highway, with the bunch of lace at his throat.
Alfred Noyes, The Highwayman, 1906.