Baldur's Gate 3 II: The Urge for a Second Playthrough

[ArlEammon]

Go west, past the blighted village. Youll find it.

Found it a while ago, I forgot to thank you. Thanks. :D

[LibraryOgre]

I think one of my greatest annoyances, and this goes to 5e, too, is mechanical overlap.

So, let's say I roll up a Mountain Dwarf Fighter... and a good chunk of my racial abilities just disappear. I'm proficient in medium armor? And axes and hammers? Yay? I'd be proficient in the same as a half-orc fighter, but I get other cool abilities as a half-orc. But if I'm a half-orc Durge, I wind up having proficiency with Intimidation from my background and from my race, and so... I got nothin'.

[Eldonauran]

I think one of my greatest annoyances, and this goes to 5e, too, is mechanical overlap.

So, let's say I roll up a Mountain Dwarf Fighter... and a good chunk of my racial abilities just disappear. I'm proficient in medium armor? And axes and hammers? Yay? I'd be proficient in the same as a half-orc fighter, but I get other cool abilities as a half-orc. But if I'm a half-orc Durge, I wind up having proficiency with Intimidation from my background and from my race, and so... I got nothin'.

If the value of a race/class combination was determined by how little overlap a character has between racial abilities and class feature, then some races make objectively better choices for some classes over others.

[LibraryOgre]

If the value of a race/class combination was determined by how little overlap a character has between racial abilities and class feature, then some races make objectively better choices for some classes over others.

Exactly. And the problem you get there is that they often don't match the ideas.

Who is best for wizards? Well, Mountain Dwarves get a really useful bonus. But who is good for fighters? Mountain dwarves get TWO utterly useless features. So, while the stereotype of a dwarf is a fighter, there's no melee warrior type class where they excel, because being a mountain dwarf is a drag on your total utility.

It's part of why I've tended away from class-based games in the last few years.

[tonberrian]

One thing that vanilla 5e has, that baldur's gate 3 does not, if you get a skill proficiency from your race and background, you can trade one of those in for a free skill proficiency in anything. I think the same for tool proficiencies too, but bg 3 doesn't have tool proficiencies beyond musical instruments.

[Eldonauran]

It's part of why I've tended away from class-based games in the last few years.

I've been playing a bit of Savage Worlds and Warhammer 40k Fantasy. The former is pretty much entirely non-class based, and the later has some profession/class categories but is generally meant to say "If you are [[insert X]], buying stuff in that things list of talents/skills/etc is half price".

Still solidly a Pathfinder 1e player however.

[Psyren]

If you play as an origin character (other than dark urge) you loose the vast majority of their voice acting, which is IMO a very significant downside. Dark urge costs you some options, too-

Spoiler

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the most obvious example being Alfira, who dies (and so cannot give you her quest in act 2, and general interactions in act 2 and 3) if you don't metagame to save her.

Also, NPCs acting differently towards you if you play an origin character is not "extra content", because it *replaces* the NPC's reactions to Tav. It's alternative content, not extra content. You can find that content better, but it is not objectively better.

^ 100%.

And also - even if you don't care about the Durge content differences, or see Durge as having more content than Tav (which tbh it does) - that doesn't make it objectively better. A lot of the content Durge adds is frankly disturbing if not borderline triggering for a lot of players, and that's the stuff Larian left in. Players who don't want to deal with that having Tav as an option is a good thing, and Larian were wise to put the work in.

One thing that vanilla 5e has, that baldur's gate 3 does not, if you get a skill proficiency from your race and background, you can trade one of those in for a free skill proficiency in anything. I think the same for tool proficiencies too, but bg 3 doesn't have tool proficiencies beyond musical instruments.

As of Tasha's you can do that with armor and weapons too so there's that. A Dwarf Fighter can at least end up with a bunch of extra tool proficiencies in that case.

But that doesn't help with things like Goblin's Nimble Escape being totally redundant with a rogue's Cunning Action.

TBH, part of why I like the Half-orc is mechanical... they work really well with a melee bard, and don't add stuff I can't really use (like civil militia).

Yeah, you'll have to mod the Horc traits onto a human (or maybe a hornless/tailless tiefling if you want a fang situation?) and turn them green, then. The good news is that's probably a lot easier to do than messing with horc head models and the like.

I think one of my greatest annoyances, and this goes to 5e, too, is mechanical overlap.

So, let's say I roll up a Mountain Dwarf Fighter... and a good chunk of my racial abilities just disappear. I'm proficient in medium armor? And axes and hammers? Yay? I'd be proficient in the same as a half-orc fighter, but I get other cool abilities as a half-orc. But if I'm a half-orc Durge, I wind up having proficiency with Intimidation from my background and from my race, and so... I got nothin'.

Yeah I find this annoying too. They're reducing it in 5.5e, but redundant combinations like goblin rogues/monks still exist and that gets under my skin. The best I can say is that goblin rogues can do the Cunning Action/Discipline stuff at level 1, unlike other species, but once you hit level 2 that ceases to matter.

[Beowulf DW]

So, my wife has just finished her first playthrough, and she loved it. She's never had any experience with any edition of DnD or any other D20 system, but now she really wants to try it. Early on, she tried a Wild Magic Sorc, and at one point, I heard her screech (I was playing Monter Hunter in the basement) so I went running up the stairs. I was worried that she'd been hurt, but she was staring at her computer screen.

She turned to me and said, "The whole party is dogs!" I started laughing and reminded her that I'd told her wild magic could be unpredictable. I can't wait to start playing it myself.

[Zevox]

So, my wife has just finished her first playthrough, and she loved it. She's never had any experience with any edition of DnD or any other D20 system, but now she really wants to try it. Early on, she tried a Wild Magic Sorc, and at one point, I heard her screech (I was playing Monter Hunter in the basement) so I went running up the stairs. I was worried that she'd been hurt, but she was staring at her computer screen.

She turned to me and said, "The whole party is dogs!" I started laughing and reminded her that I'd told her wild magic could be unpredictable. I can't wait to start playing it myself.

Heh, reminds me of my favorite instance of wild magic from my Wild Magic Sorcerer run. Non-spoiler version: that "turn people into animals" wild magic effect can work on enemies, too. Especially once you get the high-level ability to force enemies to make wild magic checks as a reaction to them casting a spell.

Spoiler: Act 3 boss

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During the fight with Saarevok, when the first of his followers went to cast her buff on him, I used the reaction option to force them to roll for a wild magic effect. As a result, all three of his buff-casting followers got turned into cats, while my entire party was out of range of the effect. Two turns of them being useless made the fight a hell of lot easier, let me tell you.

[Psyren]

So, my wife has just finished her first playthrough, and she loved it. She's never had any experience with any edition of DnD or any other D20 system, but now she really wants to try it. Early on, she tried a Wild Magic Sorc, and at one point, I heard her screech (I was playing Monter Hunter in the basement) so I went running up the stairs. I was worried that she'd been hurt, but she was staring at her computer screen.

She turned to me and said, "The whole party is dogs!" I started laughing and reminded her that I'd told her wild magic could be unpredictable. I can't wait to start playing it myself.

My partner was in the exact same boat. Not as familiar with D&D, decided to give wild magic a try, agreed to my waivers/disclaimers, streams of cursing whenever the party would get sheeped. But he enjoyed the game enough to do multiple playthroughs and is a lot more interested in tabletop D&D now.

[Beowulf DW]

Heh, reminds me of my favorite instance of wild magic from my Wild Magic Sorcerer run. Non-spoiler version: that "turn people into animals" wild magic effect can work on enemies, too. Especially once you get the high-level ability to force enemies to make wild magic checks as a reaction to them casting a spell.

Not checking the spoiler, but I'm certain that it's probably something that would make one of my regular GMs laugh and cry all at the same time. And possibly make them want to toss a source book across the room, lol.

My partner was in the exact same boat. Not as familiar with D&D, decided to give wild magic a try, agreed to my waivers/disclaimers, streams of cursing whenever the party would get sheeped. But he enjoyed the game enough to do multiple playthroughs and is a lot more interested in tabletop D&D now.

One of us! One of us! There's nothing quite like getting the people you love into mutual hobbies.

My regular group is in the middle of a Lancer campaign, atm, but my wife's already tried out a Fate campaign with us, so hopefully we try DnD or PF for our next campaign. She seems to have taken a liking to druid because of her love of animals.

[Psyren]

Not checking the spoiler, but I'm certain that it's probably something that would make one of my regular GMs laugh and cry all at the same time. And possibly make them want to toss a source book across the room, lol.

Lightly editing Zevox's quote to be spoiler free:

During a boss fight with some caster minions on one side of the room, one of said minions went to buff the boss, and my wild mage used the reaction option to force them to roll for a wild magic effect. As a result, the caster minions got turned into cats, while my entire party was out of range of the effect. Two turns of them being useless made the fight a hell of lot easier, let me tell you.

And yes, that would make me laugh too.

One of us! One of us! There's nothing quite like getting the people you love into mutual hobbies.

My regular group is in the middle of a Lancer campaign, atm, but my wife's already tried out a Fate campaign with us, so hopefully we try DnD or PF for our next campaign. She seems to have taken a liking to druid because of her love of animals.

Mine is most interested in wizard, believe it or not. Talk about diving in with both feet. (He's a scientist IRL which may explain the affinity for the bookworm class.)

[LibraryOgre]

The more time I spend on BG2, the more likely it is I will restart for BG3.

begin whine:

I miss the 2e bard. No other class has been quite that mixture of skills, and its closest analog, the arcane trickster, is to thief-y for me these days.

end whine

[Eldonauran]

I miss the 2e bard. No other class has been quite that mixture of skills, and its closest analog, the arcane trickster, is to thief-y for me these days.

Agreed, though the ONLY thing I do NOT miss about the 2e Bard was the inability to cast spells while wearing any kind of armor. 3e (and beyond) did something right in that regard. I think 5e got waaaay too relaxed with the armor restrictions on spellcasting though. I'd rather they made it more restrictive for divine casters to cast in heavier armor than just give the arcane casters a leg up.

Doesn't mean I am not abusing the hell out of it in BG3 though.

[LibraryOgre]

Agreed, though the ONLY thing I do NOT miss about the 2e Bard was the inability to cast spells while wearing any kind of armor. 3e (and beyond) did something right in that regard. I think 5e got waaaay too relaxed with the armor restrictions on spellcasting though. I'd rather they made it more restrictive for divine casters to cast in heavier armor than just give the arcane casters a leg up.

Doesn't mean I am not abusing the hell out of it in BG3 though.

You play the game that is there, no matter what you wish it was.

[Psyren]

It would be nice if armor restrictions/spell failure were an official variant rule in 5e. Something to make plate-wearing wizards require more investment than they currently do, if they're even still possible at all.

[Keltest]

It would be nice if armor restrictions/spell failure were an official variant rule in 5e. Something to make plate-wearing wizards require more investment than they currently do, if they're even still possible at all.

Eh. Let wizards wear their armor. Its not hurting anyone. Their D6 hit die is still the bigger thing making them want to stay away from the business end of weapons.

[Zevox]

Eh. Let wizards wear their armor. Its not hurting anyone. Their D6 hit die is still the bigger thing making them want to stay away from the business end of weapons.

Agreed. They don't get it by default, so the standard for a Wizard is still wearing just whatever clothes they have, and it doesn't break anything if they do go out of their way to get it. I have no issues with it.

[Psyren]

Eh. Let wizards wear their armor. Its not hurting anyone. Their D6 hit die is still the bigger thing making them want to stay away from the business end of weapons.

Agreed. They don't get it by default, so the standard for a Wizard is still wearing just whatever clothes they have, and it doesn't break anything if they do go out of their way to get it. I have no issues with it.

I don't have an issue with it either; I'm suggesting it as a variant for those who do. There are people who take issue with sleeping overnight curing all your injuries too, and there's a variant rule for them.

[Anonymouswizard]

Personally I'm more annoyed about the sheer ubiquity of d8 hit dice, particularly as it's very easy to have a party in BG3 where only the dedicated frontliner doesn't have d8 hit dice and 14 CON. I really wish they'd have just bumped up first level HP and kept d4 hit dice in.

Then again I think each class should have had abilities that interact with Inspiration, I am very much not the intended audience for 5e. Bring back the Arcane/Divine/Psionic split! Give me a playable psychic class! Where's my dedicated shape shifter option!? Bring back Perform (Sexual Acts)!

[LibraryOgre]

Personally I'm more annoyed about the sheer ubiquity of d8 hit dice, particularly as it's very easy to have a party in BG3 where only the dedicated frontliner doesn't have d8 hit dice and 14 CON. I really wish they'd have just bumped up first level HP and kept d4 hit dice in.

Hackmaster gives you a 1st level kicker of 10 (or 5) + Full Constitution. Your Constitution doesn't add per-level HP bonuses, but if you're medium sized (and not an elf or half-elf) with a 14 Con, you get 24 + HD HP as 1st level. It gives you some good starting longevity, but reduces the long-term effect of Con on HP.

Then again I think each class should have had abilities that interact with Inspiration, I am very much not the intended audience for 5e. Bring back the Arcane/Divine/Psionic split! Give me a playable psychic class! Where's my dedicated shape shifter option!? Bring back Perform (Sexual Acts)!

Divine/Arcane disappeared in 3e. While they kept some aspects of it, those eroded further in 3.5, and was pretty much gone by 4e.

[Anonymouswizard]

Hackmaster gives you a 1st level kicker of 10 (or 5) + Full Constitution. Your Constitution doesn't add per-level HP bonuses, but if you're medium sized (and not an elf or half-elf) with a 14 Con, you get 24 + HD HP as 1st level. It gives you some good starting longevity, but reduces the long-term effect of Con on HP.

I honestly think that if we're going to have STR and CON as separate stats they should both contribute to HP, so if I ever run 5e again I might give extra HP at 1st level equal to your CON score, knock hp per level down by one and apply your STR modifier to it.

But that's partially due to STR being of relatively little value on 5e.

Divine/Arcane disappeared in 3e. While they kept some aspects of it, those eroded further in 3.5, and was pretty much gone by 4e.

It became less important in 3e, but it was still there and IIRC pretty significant. It would have been me re so if not for the component pouch. But yes, by 4e power source was mostly flavour, unless you were in Dark Sun where it very occasionally mattered.


A thing I've been doing this run is sticking every last dagger I run across into Durge's inventory. I'm wondering how far I'll get before it makes my waifish monk overencumbered... (I'm also planning to switch from that +unarmed staff to a dagger or shortsword by level 8, the stabby stabby just fits Durge).

[ArlEammon]

Spoiler: Auntie Ethel

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She is kicking my butt in every encounter! Or, more accurately, the Redcaps are. What's some strats for taking out the Redcaps?

[tonberrian]

Spoiler: Auntie Ethel

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She is kicking my butt in every encounter! Or, more accurately, the Redcaps are. What's some strats for taking out the Redcaps?

Spoiler: Redcaps

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Have you tried fighting them by themselves outside auntie ethel's abode? If you haven't seen through the illusion, they're the sheep. You can get a surprise attack on them if you attack them without provoking them. Honestly i never found them that difficult, but i always fought them before aggroing Auntie.

[Zevox]

Spoiler: Auntie Ethel

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She is kicking my butt in every encounter! Or, more accurately, the Redcaps are. What's some strats for taking out the Redcaps?

Spoiler: Auntie Ethel

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You got into a fight with her that involves Redcaps? How'd you do that? The only fights I've ever had with her had her alone.

[Lycunadari]

Spoiler: Auntie Ethel

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You got into a fight with her that involves Redcaps? How'd you do that? The only fights I've ever had with her had her alone.

Spoiler

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If you start the fight with her in her house and she escapes down the fireplace all the redcaps outside turn hostile. I don't remember if they automatically/always join the fight, but if you still have someone standing outside where they can see them, or you try to run away, the redcaps will attack you.

[Psyren]

Spoiler: Auntie Ethel

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You got into a fight with her that involves Redcaps? How'd you do that? The only fights I've ever had with her had her alone.

They're outside, in the swamp; they aggro if

Spoiler

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you piss off Ethel in her hut, e.g. by insisting on telling Mayrina about her brothers, which makes her call for help.

But it takes them a couple of rounds to get to the front door, plenty of time to lay down a nasty welcome (I did Cloud of Daggers.)

[Cikomyr2]

I absolutely love how at multiple stages of the game, i had a character being the consistent MVP through most encounters.

And that character changed every act. Now thats game balance.

[LibraryOgre]

I honestly think that if we're going to have STR and CON as separate stats they should both contribute to HP, so if I ever run 5e again I might give extra HP at 1st level equal to your CON score, knock hp per level down by one and apply your STR modifier to it.

In Villains and Vigilantes, every attribute but Charisma contributes to your HP, to one extent or another. Constitution is by far the biggest, but they all do.

But that's partially due to STR being of relatively little value on 5e.

Struck me particularly hard when I read the spell Ray of Enfeeblement... which is useless against everyone BUT strength-based attackers. Finesse fighters? Absolutely no effect.

[Anonymouswizard]

Spoiler: Auntie Ethel

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She is kicking my butt in every encounter! Or, more accurately, the Redcaps are. What's some strats for taking out the Redcaps?

Spoiler

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I generally wait by the house so I don't have to fight them all at once. If you can't get rid of them before all four get near you I find Karlach+Astarion+a third front liner covers a lot of sins.

Ethel herself is a potentially annoying fight you do not want to go into under levelled and under prepared.

Spoiler: Ethel fight

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She has a couple of nasty tricks with illusions, notably her illusionary doubles can fling actual spells if you don't get rid of them, and she'll generate them twice. You do not want eight bags able to throw Ray of Sickness at you.

You'll probably want a decent way to clear up the illusions, Magic Missile is ideal but any way to nab a few more attacks works. If you can put it off until level five you should have enough attacks to thin the crowd.

If Mayrina is still alive at a certain point she'll teleport her out of the cage and disguise herself. If you don't want to risk killing her, can't work out which is Ethel, and don't want to let Ethel get a free hit in remember that the previous room gives a tutorial on non-lethal attacks.