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2024-03-20, 03:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Can You Grapple an Ally? Can Allies take Opportunity Attacks When Moved?
Yeah, I probably was focusing on the wrong thing there. Personally, I'd say scooping up your ally should be more than an Object Interaction, but that's just me. Hence the use of Grapple rules to handle it, cause I'd make saving an ally a full action anyway, regardless of how the player described it.
As for people not being incapacitated, meh, weird rules are weird. I personally stick closer to RAW than most probably do, and even I agree there should be an option to auto-fail an opposed Ability Check. For example, I was recently DMing and ran into a pretty strange RAW rule interaction. I put a player to sleep via Eyebite, so they were Unconscious. I then tried to move the player via Telekinesis from a separate NPC. By RAW, the player can roll their opposed Strength Check because Unconscious doesn't effect Ability Checks, and you only auto-fail Grapple Checks when you're Incapacitated. And Telekinesis is not a Grapple.
I ran it RAW, mostly because I prefer to implement rule changes after a session instead of during the session. So the player was able to resist the Telekinesis. But going forward they know that Incapacitated creatures will simply fail opposed Strength and Dexterity checksLast edited by sithlordnergal; 2024-03-20 at 03:58 PM.
Never let the fluff of a class define the personality of a character. Let Clerics be Atheist, let Barbarians be cowardly or calm, let Druids hate nature, and let Wizards know nothing about the arcane
Fun Fact: A monk in armor loses Martial Arts, Unarmored Defense, and Unarmored Movement, but keep all of their other abilities, including subclass features, and Stunning Strike works with melee weapon attacks. Make a Monk in Fullplate with a Greatsword >=D
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2024-03-20, 04:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2011
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- ICU, under a cherry tree.
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Re: Can You Grapple an Ally? Can Allies take Opportunity Attacks When Moved?
Castlevania II: Dracula's Curse
Sabian Skellegue, the Unyielding Wrath
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2024-03-21, 03:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2019
Re: Can You Grapple an Ally? Can Allies take Opportunity Attacks When Moved?
"Suppose the ally isn't unconscious, but you're much faster, even at half speed, and want to carry them away. You're saying the best way to handle this is for both players to make contested ability checks to see if the ally succeeds in grabbing the other one?"
There are only contested ability checks if the creature being grappled/shoved decides to resist - if they want to contest the attempt.
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2024-03-21, 07:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2016
Re: Can You Grapple an Ally? Can Allies take Opportunity Attacks When Moved?
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2024-03-21, 07:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2011
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Re: Can You Grapple an Ally? Can Allies take Opportunity Attacks When Moved?
1. Where does it say you can choose not to resist a grapple?
2. Then what was the point of the ally being unconscious in the first place?
If anyone can carry an ally and the ally can simply agree, why insist on using the "Grapple" rules to do so? After all, the grapple rules assume you are grabbing an enemy. Maybe the reason you move at half speed is because the enemy is resisting you the entire time. If you're carrying someone piggyback, or in a fireman's carry, and they are willing, maybe you don't move at half speed.Castlevania II: Dracula's Curse
Sabian Skellegue, the Unyielding Wrath
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Expedition to Castle Ravenloft
Aelki Ruasha, Void Knight of the Star Ocean
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2024-03-21, 10:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: Can You Grapple an Ally? Can Allies take Opportunity Attacks When Moved?
This might be why grapple is being modified to be a saving throw in 2024, coupled with the new "you can voluntarily fail any save" rule, so that grappling allies can be a reliable tactic across different tables.
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2024-03-21, 10:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2011
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Re: Can You Grapple an Ally? Can Allies take Opportunity Attacks When Moved?
Castlevania II: Dracula's Curse
Sabian Skellegue, the Unyielding Wrath
IC OOC
Expedition to Castle Ravenloft
Aelki Ruasha, Void Knight of the Star Ocean
IC OOC MAP
Chult Hex Crawl
Ondros, Mazewalker of Ubtao
IC OOC Slide Deck
Retired Characters
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2024-03-21, 10:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: Can You Grapple an Ally? Can Allies take Opportunity Attacks When Moved?
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2024-03-22, 06:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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2024-03-24, 01:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2012
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Re: Can You Grapple an Ally? Can Allies take Opportunity Attacks When Moved?
Thanks for your input, everyone.
It seems like there's a strong consensus on the second half of the question. Being moved shouldn't trigger opportunity attacks. As always, a DM may rule otherwise for reasons of verisimilitude.
There's more disagreement about grappling an ally, which is useful to know and surprises me a little. Bar one, I think all the DMs I've played with have ruled that ally-grappling is permissible. My surprise must come from my unusually consistent playing experience.Last edited by TaiLiu; 2024-03-24 at 01:30 AM.
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2024-03-24, 10:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: Can You Grapple an Ally? Can Allies take Opportunity Attacks When Moved?
Any remaining ambiguity on ally-grappling should be definitively resolved in a few months' time.
But the other part you didn't touch on was the dragging/encumbrance aspect, which is likely going to still have substantial table variation (as it should, since encumbrance itself has substantial table variation.)Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2024-03-24, 11:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Can You Grapple an Ally? Can Allies take Opportunity Attacks When Moved?
what is the point of living if you can't deadlift?
All credit to the amazing avatar goes to thoroughlyS
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2024-03-24, 01:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Can You Grapple an Ally? Can Allies take Opportunity Attacks When Moved?
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2024-03-24, 03:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Can You Grapple an Ally? Can Allies take Opportunity Attacks When Moved?
Roll for it 5e Houserules and Homebrew
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2024-03-28, 11:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Can You Grapple an Ally? Can Allies take Opportunity Attacks When Moved?
Oh, are you referring to D&D 5.5e? Or something else?
Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean. I think I mentioned it, so "touch" must be a metaphor for something else.
Yeah, we had a similar rule in my old campaign. If you were a size smaller, you could even be carried without any reduction to speed. Which led to some cute in-game moments.
Understood. Thanks for the info.
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2024-03-29, 09:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Can You Grapple an Ally? Can Allies take Opportunity Attacks When Moved?
Yes - because grappling is going from being an opposed check to being a saving throw, which allies will be able to automatically fail (new general rule), and therefore they can always choose to let themselves be grappled. And if they're unconscious, paralyzed or stunned, they'll autofail those saves anyway.
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2024-03-29, 12:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Can You Grapple an Ally? Can Allies take Opportunity Attacks When Moved?
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2024-03-29, 01:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: Can You Grapple an Ally? Can Allies take Opportunity Attacks When Moved?
Autofailing those saves exists today - see the relevant conditions. As mentioned, Paralyze/Stunned/Unconscious all include that clause of autofailing Str and Dex saves. All WotC are doing is putting grapples under that column.
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2024-03-29, 05:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Can You Grapple an Ally? Can Allies take Opportunity Attacks When Moved?
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2024-03-29, 06:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Can You Grapple an Ally? Can Allies take Opportunity Attacks When Moved?
Oh when you said "autofail rule" I thought you meant the automatic failure due to {condition} one.
Yeah, they printed this sidebar in UA7:
It was printed immediately after the "Branches of the Tree" teleport-other ability in the new World Tree Barbarian, implying that they wanted people using that ability on both allies and enemies.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2024-03-29, 10:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Can You Grapple an Ally? Can Allies take Opportunity Attacks When Moved?