Unique and Fun builds for 3.5

[Wildstag]

It's mildly dorky, but there's a way to play Llyan from The Chronicles of Prydain. Pick your race as Tibbit. Then choose two levels in a full-bab base class. I prefer Ftr1/Barb1. Then qualify for Stoneblessed (Goliath). By level 3, you count as a Goliath for racial prerequisites.

Now retrain your Barb1 level to use the Goliath Barbarian racial substitution level. Pick up Mountain Rage. Now when you rage, you gain +6 Strength and become a Large creature. You are now playing Llyan.

[RNightstalker]

That's the thing 3.5... has just so many options it's impossible to think of and keep track of them all. Can do pretty much anything.

That's what makes 3ish edition awesome...I'm not on the 5th edition board much but I notice the numbers of posts and this one has way more far and away.

[Jopustopin]

"Binger" - Monk 2 / Warblade 4 (going drunken master). Cobra strike variant. Lion Tribe warrior, mage slayer. Charges, punches, drinks.

[Bonzai]

I had a crazy cat lady build.
Mongrel Folk Druid 1/wizard 1/Sorc 1/Totemist 2/Beastmaster 10
Pertinent feats: wild companion, share soulmeld

The wizard and Sorcerer levels sub out their familiar for animal companions. Wild companion basically gives you another. In a nutshell, this build will give you up to 8 animal companions. You use share soulmeld, with the Manticore Belt bound to their totem Chakra. Maxed out, you will be able to fire off 72 spines a round. That is maxed out, but the combo is engaged at level 5, with 4 cats. Between them and you, that is at least 10 possible d6 damage attacks.

Mongrelfolk wasn't integral to the build, but drives home the crazy cat lady aesthetic.

[Temotei]

It's mildly dorky, but there's a way to play Llyan from The Chronicles of Prydain. Pick your race as Tibbit. Then choose two levels in a full-bab base class. I prefer Ftr1/Barb1. Then qualify for Stoneblessed (Goliath). By level 3, you count as a Goliath for racial prerequisites.

Now retrain your Barb1 level to use the Goliath Barbarian racial substitution level. Pick up Mountain Rage. Now when you rage, you gain +6 Strength and become a Large creature. You are now playing Llyan.

Since the tibbit explicitly takes a "-8 penalty to Strength" upon transforming, soulborn 2 can give you immunity to that if you're Chaotic Evil. Funny interaction.

[Morphic tide]

Artificer 1/Kaorti 2/LA +2/Fiend of Possession 2/Artificer +4 has funny uses with the Web Enhancement that defines Kaorti ribbon weapons as a special material. Because it allows you to replace the normal GP cost of making Masterwork weapons and armor with 50% the market price in XP, and go down to 35% the base cost at 1 XP=5 GP as a replacement Magic Item crafting procedure. This means that when Retain Essence destroys anything made this way, you get back everything you spent on the base item and lose 65% less GP on the magic.

The ordering here is not-quite-RAW backstory abuse of Vile Transformation to have the Kaorti RHD fulfil the Fiend of Possession skill requirements for a clean early entry. At-will Etherealness at ECL 6 is lovely, free floating enhancements are great even at +2, Bestow Curse on contact may function as an on-hit effect, and hiding yourself in one of your items lets your cheap-to-change arsenal be carried through a lot of things. Artificer +8 gets you to CL 15 item requirements like 8th level spells and making them Intelligent, with LA buyoff letting you also reach FoP 5.

[vasilidor]

A build i want to try is to do Sorcerer 5, Fighter 5, Spell Sword 10. Mostly I just want casting on a guy in full plate for some utility stuff. Is this a great build? no. I figure it would function well enough for premade adventures or low op campaigns though.

[titaniumskittle]

Vampire spawn monster class is pretty fun. Ask your DM what you could do to gain unholy toughness to give you more hp but past that it's a good time

[pabelfly]

A build i want to try is to do Sorcerer 5, Fighter 5, Spell Sword 10. Mostly I just want casting on a guy in full plate for some utility stuff. Is this a great build? no. I figure it would function well enough for premade adventures or low op campaigns though.

Arcane casting in heavy armor is a surprisingly commonly-asked question. I even did a thread myself:

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...in-heavy-armor

Short version: Stalwart Battle Sorcerer + Skin of Ectoplasmic Armor (MIC) is heavy armor that counts as light while you can cast in what's effectively full plate armor without any issue. Probably the easiest way to do it.

Stalwart Battle Sorcerer + Battle Caster lets you cast in medium armor without issue, and a material like mithral reduces heavy armor to medium armor.

Armored Savant (Fighter ACF, Dragon Magazine) halves your ASF before you use ASF-reducing stuff like blended quartz, thistledown padding, twilight enchant, and so forth.

There's more suggestions in the thread, if those don't work for you.

[Darg]

Don't forget straight up martial casting PrCs like Knight of the Weave or Suel Arcanamach which give alternate casting while not needing the ability to cast in the first place.

Then again, Still Spell is exceptionally valid for casting in armor if going for a traditional gish. People on these boards complain about it, but it's still a lot of access for casting in plate/tower shield. Even a traditional eldritch knight ends up with 15 BAB and up to 9th level spells, or stilled up to 8th. And not every spell needs to be stilled either. Some spells you cast at the beginning of the day, other times you use some spells for out of combat utility where you have time to remove your failure chances. The real hard part is finding ways to game the action economy to let you cast and attack in a round (which is what makes spellsword so appealing even with its 5/10 casting.)(Funnily enough, spellsword is basically indirect proof that rainbow servant is a 6/10 casting PrC, but that's off topic.)

[rel]

Item wielder is a class of build that only really saw support in 3.5, not even pathfinder 1 had much allowance for it.
In combat you primarily use consumables to contribute; wands for blasting, potions, scrolls and so forth.
Since your power comes largely from the items you craft and carry, rather than directly from class features, your powers don't refresh per encounter, or even per day, but per Adventure.
Eventually, after days of adventuring, you start running out of wand charges and potions and need to go back to town to sell loot and craft more gear.

It's a very different way of playing, dependent on finding enough money and periodic downtime time to keep going but largely immune to running out of gas in the short term.

Good base classes are caster types like wizard or artificer, and good prc's enhance item use; wand adept, alchemist savant, unseen seer (for sneak attack), etc.

[SimonMoon6]

Here's a build I was toying around with for a while:

I wanted to have a tiny PC. That's doable. But the boring optimal thing to do with a tiny PC is to make them a spellcaster. Spells don't care what size you are and then you just get AC and "to hit" bonuses from being tiny. But I felt that went against the spirit of being a tiny PC. So, I tried to make a tiny melee character.

So, what's the character's race? Could be jermlaine or muckdweller. I picked jermlaine. Their stat modifiers are Str -8, Dex +6, Con -2, Int -2, Wis +6, Cha -6. Again, that seems pretty bad for a melee character. You could make a great druid. Maybe even an archer with that DEX. But... yuck.

Okay, so ingredient #2 is templates to improve on that STR and CON. I went through a long process to figure out what would work. Here's what I chose:

Spoiler

Show

First, we apply inherited templates. The main one I want here is Unseelie Fey.

So, in addition to possibly gaining wings, we have these stat modifiers At LA+0:

STR: -10, DEX: +8, CON: -4, INT: -2, WIS: +6, CHA: -4

We seem to be going in the wrong direction, but that's fine. Next, the character takes a level of barbarian and then gets some templates that are not inherited. The first one is Dustform. This turns our fey into a construct and our stat mods (at LA: +2) are now:

STR: -6, DEX: +6, CON: --, INT: --, WIS: +6, CHA: -4

At this point, our alignment has changed from evil to neutral (but we must also still be non-lawful because barbarian). Then, of course, we take Incarnate Construct to turn the construct into a humanoid, giving us the following for stats (at LA: +0):

STR: -6, DEX: +6, CON: 4d6, INT: 4d6, WIS: +6, CHA: -4

Now, we haven't improved that STR modifier very much, right? But notice that we have two stats that are determined by die rolls, so we can totally dump CON and INT in our original stat rolls because they get replaced by 4d6, so in a point buy system, we have a lot more flexibility to put points in STR if we want.

But we can do more if we're willing to take on some LA. We have one more template: Lolth-Touched. Now, at LA: +1, we have the following:

STR: +0, DEX: +6, CON: 4d6+6, INT: 4d6, WIS: +6, CHA: -4

So, now we're as strong as a human. That's great. And we only have one negative modifer (CHA) which we would probably want to dump anyway. In fact, we could dump INT, CON, and CHA, leaving us with only three stats where we should put a lot of points (STR, DEX to make our AC crazy, and maybe WIS for saving throws). This first level barbarian will be ECL 2 though.

Unfortunately, this does lock us in at an evil alignment once more. If that's not gonna work, here are my two possible work-arounds:

(a) I hope I can have a backstory where I talked to a CG Evangelist (class) who has a 5th level power to change my alignment. I used to be a CE jerk, a low charisma evil guy that nobody liked. Well, suddenly, now that I'm CG, I have friends, I have people who like me, maybe even people I can trust. But I can still have fun, still be chaotic. I choose to stay CG.

As a DM, I would allow this except the PC would have to pay the cost of someone using one of their class abilities. I would charge the same price as if asking someone of that level to cast the highest level spell they could cast. But many DMs might not allow that.

(b) Put the Lolth-Touched template *before* Dust Form. That means that we lose out on having the +6 to CON, so our stat modifiers would actually be:

STR: +0, DEX: +6, CON: 4d6, INT: 4d6, WIS: +6, CHA: -4

Okay, we have a tiny PC with STR modifier of +0. Now what?

Being tiny is great for AC and hitting but terrible for a melee combatant because *no* weapon can ever be long enough to allow a tiny PC to get reach of even 5' according to the rules. Without even 5' reach, tiny PCs have to enter people's squares to attack, meaning the enemy gets an AoO on you every single time before you can attack them once (unless you make a DC 25 Tumble check). Hopefully, crazy high AC will help.

I would be using the ACF of the Urban Barbarian to replace rage with ferocity, granting a bonus to STR and DEX (instead of CON). He gets a penalty on ranged attacks, but who cares?

And then at level 2 (ECL 3), we switch to Swordsage.

We will be using an elven courtblade (basically a great sword that you can use Weapon Finesse with, since our DEX is going to be higher than our STR). He probably should eventually do crit-fishing (get a keen weapon and the improved critical feat for greatsword since courtblade counts as greatsword for feats). I also want at least one Stone Dragon maneuver as a swordsage to get Weapon Focus in greatsword, which would mean WF in elven courtblade (unless someone wants to nitpick and say that this is only the "benefit" of the feat without actually being the feat, and courtblade only acts like a greatsword with an actual feat).

I could discuss a lot of other important choices, like stances and maneuvers and equipment (like armor and encumbrance), but now, let's talk about feats.

First of all, we need a lot probably. So, let's take two flaws for an extra feat. I choose Shaky and Weak Will. Then, I take two traits to move the penalties around. I choose Detached and Plucky. The overall effect is: -1 to all saves and -2 to ranged combat. This forces us even more into "pure melee".

That means that at 1st level, I'll have two feats: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (elven courtblade) and Weapon Finesse. Here are my thoughts for later feats:

At ECL 4 (level 3), take the Aberration Blood feat (+2 spot).
At ECL 5 (level 4), take a level of fighter for Improved Crit.
At ECL 6 (level 5), back to swordsage?
AT ECL 7 (level 6), take the Inhuman Reach [Aberrant] feat. This gives +5 reach but -1 to all melee attacks, which hurts but we should have enough bonuses to hit to make up for no longer having to move into someone's square to make a melee attack.

[pabelfly]

Here's a build I was toying around with for a while:

I wanted to have a tiny PC. That's doable. But the boring optimal thing to do with a tiny PC is to make them a spellcaster. Spells don't care what size you are and then you just get AC and "to hit" bonuses from being tiny. But I felt that went against the spirit of being a tiny PC. So, I tried to make a tiny melee character.

So, what's the character's race? Could be jermlaine or muckdweller. I picked jermlaine. Their stat modifiers are Str -8, Dex +6, Con -2, Int -2, Wis +6, Cha -6. Again, that seems pretty bad for a melee character. You could make a great druid. Maybe even an archer with that DEX. But... yuck.

Okay, so ingredient #2 is templates to improve on that STR and CON. I went through a long process to figure out what would work. Here's what I chose:

Spoiler

Show

First, we apply inherited templates. The main one I want here is Unseelie Fey.

So, in addition to possibly gaining wings, we have these stat modifiers At LA+0:

STR: -10, DEX: +8, CON: -4, INT: -2, WIS: +6, CHA: -4

We seem to be going in the wrong direction, but that's fine. Next, the character takes a level of barbarian and then gets some templates that are not inherited. The first one is Dustform. This turns our fey into a construct and our stat mods (at LA: +2) are now:

STR: -6, DEX: +6, CON: --, INT: --, WIS: +6, CHA: -4

At this point, our alignment has changed from evil to neutral (but we must also still be non-lawful because barbarian). Then, of course, we take Incarnate Construct to turn the construct into a humanoid, giving us the following for stats (at LA: +0):

STR: -6, DEX: +6, CON: 4d6, INT: 4d6, WIS: +6, CHA: -4

Now, we haven't improved that STR modifier very much, right? But notice that we have two stats that are determined by die rolls, so we can totally dump CON and INT in our original stat rolls because they get replaced by 4d6, so in a point buy system, we have a lot more flexibility to put points in STR if we want.

But we can do more if we're willing to take on some LA. We have one more template: Lolth-Touched. Now, at LA: +1, we have the following:

STR: +0, DEX: +6, CON: 4d6+6, INT: 4d6, WIS: +6, CHA: -4

So, now we're as strong as a human. That's great. And we only have one negative modifer (CHA) which we would probably want to dump anyway. In fact, we could dump INT, CON, and CHA, leaving us with only three stats where we should put a lot of points (STR, DEX to make our AC crazy, and maybe WIS for saving throws). This first level barbarian will be ECL 2 though.

Unfortunately, this does lock us in at an evil alignment once more. If that's not gonna work, here are my two possible work-arounds:

(a) I hope I can have a backstory where I talked to a CG Evangelist (class) who has a 5th level power to change my alignment. I used to be a CE jerk, a low charisma evil guy that nobody liked. Well, suddenly, now that I'm CG, I have friends, I have people who like me, maybe even people I can trust. But I can still have fun, still be chaotic. I choose to stay CG.

As a DM, I would allow this except the PC would have to pay the cost of someone using one of their class abilities. I would charge the same price as if asking someone of that level to cast the highest level spell they could cast. But many DMs might not allow that.

(b) Put the Lolth-Touched template *before* Dust Form. That means that we lose out on having the +6 to CON, so our stat modifiers would actually be:

STR: +0, DEX: +6, CON: 4d6, INT: 4d6, WIS: +6, CHA: -4

Okay, we have a tiny PC with STR modifier of +0. Now what?

Being tiny is great for AC and hitting but terrible for a melee combatant because *no* weapon can ever be long enough to allow a tiny PC to get reach of even 5' according to the rules. Without even 5' reach, tiny PCs have to enter people's squares to attack, meaning the enemy gets an AoO on you every single time before you can attack them once (unless you make a DC 25 Tumble check). Hopefully, crazy high AC will help.

I would be using the ACF of the Urban Barbarian to replace rage with ferocity, granting a bonus to STR and DEX (instead of CON). He gets a penalty on ranged attacks, but who cares?

And then at level 2 (ECL 3), we switch to Swordsage.

We will be using an elven courtblade (basically a great sword that you can use Weapon Finesse with, since our DEX is going to be higher than our STR). He probably should eventually do crit-fishing (get a keen weapon and the improved critical feat for greatsword since courtblade counts as greatsword for feats). I also want at least one Stone Dragon maneuver as a swordsage to get Weapon Focus in greatsword, which would mean WF in elven courtblade (unless someone wants to nitpick and say that this is only the "benefit" of the feat without actually being the feat, and courtblade only acts like a greatsword with an actual feat).

I could discuss a lot of other important choices, like stances and maneuvers and equipment (like armor and encumbrance), but now, let's talk about feats.

First of all, we need a lot probably. So, let's take two flaws for an extra feat. I choose Shaky and Weak Will. Then, I take two traits to move the penalties around. I choose Detached and Plucky. The overall effect is: -1 to all saves and -2 to ranged combat. This forces us even more into "pure melee".

That means that at 1st level, I'll have two feats: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (elven courtblade) and Weapon Finesse. Here are my thoughts for later feats:

At ECL 4 (level 3), take the Aberration Blood feat (+2 spot).
At ECL 5 (level 4), take a level of fighter for Improved Crit.
At ECL 6 (level 5), back to swordsage?
AT ECL 7 (level 6), take the Inhuman Reach [Aberrant] feat. This gives +5 reach but -1 to all melee attacks, which hurts but we should have enough bonuses to hit to make up for no longer having to move into someone's square to make a melee attack.

If you want a Tiny melee character, and entering other people's squares triggers an attack of opportunity, what about an attack of opportunity build? Robilar's Gambit and Karmic Strike. Karmic Strike requires you to be actually taking the hits from opponents, but you're getting two in return.

[SimonMoon6]

If you want a Tiny melee character, and entering other people's squares triggers an attack of opportunity, what about an attack of opportunity build? Robilar's Gambit and Karmic Strike. Karmic Strike requires you to be actually taking the hits from opponents, but you're getting two in return.

I'll admit that I had not considered those feats. Someone else making a similar build might want to consider them.

For me in particular, though, I would avoid them as (a) this build is feat starved... though I guess, if someone didn't want to go the route of getting reach to avoid AoOs, they could get rid of the two Aberrant feats to take those feats instead but also (b) this build has a really good AC and might be relying on that, while not having great HP (being a level behind and having a CON that's dependent on dice rolls... could be 30 but also could be 10... or even 4 if Lolth-Touched has to come before Dust Form). So, without great HP, it might not be ideal to choose to take hits.

Avoiding hits should be easier with an AC based on a starting DEX of 20 (assuming a point buy 14 can be put in DEX) plus 4 for "urban rage", so a DEX mod of +7, then a size mod of +4, and natural armor of +3, for an AC of 24 at 1st level even before considering armor (though armor provides only half the usual bonus for tiny characters and it's difficult to get armor with a +7 or higher DEX mod allowed... we're into considering a mithral chain shirt of nimbleness or thistledown padded or gnome twist cloth armor or bondleaf wrap, etc, though celestial armor is still a good choice (when it can be afforded)... ideally, a friendly wizard might cast mage armor for +4 AC... or we could buy potions of mage armor. If we can get mage armor, that would boost us to a 28 AC, still possible at 1st level. And swordsage can give even more AC bonuses later.

[rel]

There's also the underfoot combat / confound the big folk feat chain for small fighters.