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2024-05-03, 07:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Noctuary (D&D 3.5e, Level 20+ Adventure)
Sure, if you go down the route of total optimization. That said I would generally recommend against that as it rapidly makes the game distinctly unfun because the system just isn't designed to handle that.
Spoiler: Current Character List:
John Smith, Playing in the Dollhouse
Adam of Cyre, Cyre Red
Grok Magmaforge, Iron Crisis
ALADIN, Out of the Abyss
Jace/Elela, Right to Die
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2024-05-03, 08:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2014
Re: The Noctuary (D&D 3.5e, Level 20+ Adventure)
I mean like I vaguely know a few useful ones exist? Like I know there's one that I think you can use to do persistomancy cheese without crafting any items? And I think there's one that temporarily changes the bonus type of a +number item to whatever you want, so I could in theory have like +6 Dex (enhancement) on all my items and then change all of them to circumstance bonuses so they all stack for +100 dex but like ehhhhhhhh then I'd have to learn how infusions work in general and what those specific ones are called. The casting/crafting subsystem is a familiar sandbox to play around in.
I've also not learned basically any other subsystem. Psionics, ToB, incarnum, truenaming, shadowcasting, whatever it is sha'ir does...just never bothered. Swhy I'm really kind of mediocre at optimizing lol
Currently Recruiting WW/Mafia: Logic's Deathloop Mafia and Cazero's Graduates Of Hope's Peak - Danganronpa Mafia
Avatar by AsteriskAmp
My Homebrew
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2024-05-03, 08:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2011
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Re: The Noctuary (D&D 3.5e, Level 20+ Adventure)
For Verik I avoided Shapechange so as to keep optimization from getting too high. If we are going that way then I could change that.
chaincomplex: If we ever level up, I am thinking he would take a level of Marshal. Because of the way BAB works for epic characters, never increasing after level 20, I might be better off taking it now along with a couple of levels of Abjurant Champion. I would lose a caster level for now but get up to BAB +11 which otherwise I could never do. Is that how BAB will work here?
BTW, the premise of this game has certain similarities to something I was already thinking about for a Planescape game I might someday run, so am I definitely very interested.Last edited by kinem; 2024-05-03 at 08:22 AM.
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2024-05-03, 12:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2022
Re: The Noctuary (D&D 3.5e, Level 20+ Adventure)
The Chronotyryn is small stuff; a Nagahydra can cast 5 spells per round; a Spell Weaver can cast a free spell level for each arm and starts with 6, but ofc you can increase that; a Protean Scourge can split ad nauseam and then cast an arbitrary number of spells in a round. There’s also other broken cheese you can innately do with Shapechange, like turn into a Sarrukh and abuse Manipulate Form, but even without resorting to stinky cheese like this it’s a spell that just naturally reeks.
Last edited by Dakrsidder; 2024-05-03 at 12:17 PM.
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2024-05-03, 12:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2011
Re: The Noctuary (D&D 3.5e, Level 20+ Adventure)
Since we are using fractional bab/saves, do we get de +2 to a save from a 1st level in class in multiclassing, or do we get it only once?
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2024-05-03, 01:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2014
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- Avatar By Astral Seal!
Re: The Noctuary (D&D 3.5e, Level 20+ Adventure)
I have a LOT of Homebrew!
Spoiler: Former AvatarsSpoiler: Avatar (Not In Use) By Linkele
Spoiler: Individual Avatar Pics
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2024-05-03, 01:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2014
Re: The Noctuary (D&D 3.5e, Level 20+ Adventure)
Currently Recruiting WW/Mafia: Logic's Deathloop Mafia and Cazero's Graduates Of Hope's Peak - Danganronpa Mafia
Avatar by AsteriskAmp
My Homebrew
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2024-05-03, 01:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2012
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Re: The Noctuary (D&D 3.5e, Level 20+ Adventure)
By the RAW example, you do get the +2 for each multiclass.(Page 73 in UA, take a look at the cleric/fighter example.)
As it is an optional rule, DM's may interpret it otherwise.Spoiler: Current Character List:
John Smith, Playing in the Dollhouse
Adam of Cyre, Cyre Red
Grok Magmaforge, Iron Crisis
ALADIN, Out of the Abyss
Jace/Elela, Right to Die
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2024-05-03, 01:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2005
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Re: The Noctuary (D&D 3.5e, Level 20+ Adventure)
Corrected some minor math mistakes on the cohort's sheet.
Since chaincomplex said we could submit multiple characters, I also, ah, played around with what the cohort would look like if it had been a separate submission on its own... I may have too much time on my hands.
Spoiler: Isera as the PCIsera
Female Lawful Evil Erinyes Outsider 9/Deepwood Sniper 10, Level 19, Init +14, HP 342/342, DR 5/good, SR 20, Speed 30 ft., fly 50 ft. (good)
AC 50, Touch 29, Flat-footed 36, Fort +22, Ref +32, Will +18, Base Attack Bonus +19/+14/+9/+4
+5 energy bow +39/+39/+34/+29/+24 (2d6+27, 19-20/×5)
+5 bastard sword +36/+31/+26/+21 (1d10+26, 19-20/×2)
entangle silk rope +33 ( , )
bracers of armor +8 (+8 Armor, +14 Dex, +5 Deflect, +13 Natural)
Abilities Str 38, Dex 38, Con 30, Int 24, Wis 22, Cha 32
Condition None
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2024-05-03, 09:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2011
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- Everywhere and nowhere
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Re: The Noctuary (D&D 3.5e, Level 20+ Adventure)
Chain, would you allow an Awakened animal as a PC? The spell specifies the animal gets +3d6 Int, +1d3 Cha, and +2HD. I'd rather not gain any animal HD, but I defer to your judgment on what an Awakened Animal's ability score bonuses would be.
Saber avatar courtesy of Prime32
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2024-05-04, 12:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2022
Re: The Noctuary (D&D 3.5e, Level 20+ Adventure)
Worth noting this is why I mentioned not having to get all the items written up in the OP until you know you're in the game. It's a lot of work for uncertain reward, which I'm not interested in dumping on anyone.
As far as I'm concerned the crux of a craftificer's build is their cost reduction process.
Yes. Per my houserule you treat them as LA. Minor +1, intermediate +2, major +3.
Yep.
We're interpreting fractional BAB/saves as in Unearthed Arcana. You can get the +2 on good saves multiple times.
It's not lost on me that Pathfinder Unchained did it with more design coherency. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Added.
Yes to the concept, but I don't know what first-party options there are for this. Technically this can't be strictly RAW since basically all animals are LA —. It's not hard to assess per Savage Species that they should mostly have LA +0, of course, so let's go with that reading. Then you can buy a casting of awaken, but you get +2 HD for a total of, say for a cat, 2 or 3 racial HD, depending on how we round fractional HD, which you have to eat in character creation. If you go this route I'm obviously happy to interpret fractional HD as rounding down.
Alternatively, you can toss Celestial Creature or another +Int template onto an animal to get the 3 Int needed to be a playable species. If you pick an animal with 1 or less HD, then per DMG you can grab a class level without eating the first HD. Of course then you're eating LA +2 or so from your template. This can be bought off with XP, of course. Note that with 3 Int, even if you allot as much point buy into Int as you can, you're maxing out at 10 Int. You can obviously improve that score as usual, but my point is this process is stretched.
Do you have another suggestion?
(NB: For obvious reasons I'm not allowing tricks to get awaken cast on anything other than true animals or plants, precluding PCs explicitly.)
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2024-05-04, 09:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Noctuary (D&D 3.5e, Level 20+ Adventure)
GNU Sir Terry Pratchett
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2024-05-04, 10:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2013
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- New Zealand
Re: The Noctuary (D&D 3.5e, Level 20+ Adventure)
Two handed weapon 1.5 STR mod rounded up or down?
Last edited by Yas392; 2024-05-04 at 10:24 AM.
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2024-05-04, 10:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Noctuary (D&D 3.5e, Level 20+ Adventure)
Down.
So a strength mod of +3 means +4 damage, whereas a +4 strength mod is +6 damage.Spoiler: Current Character List:
John Smith, Playing in the Dollhouse
Adam of Cyre, Cyre Red
Grok Magmaforge, Iron Crisis
ALADIN, Out of the Abyss
Jace/Elela, Right to Die
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2024-05-04, 12:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- North Eastern UK
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2024-05-04, 01:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2012
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Re: The Noctuary (D&D 3.5e, Level 20+ Adventure)
I'm afraid that I'm really not understanding what your character is going for.
If you want more cheese and are non-good, undead leadership could work.
The X stat to Y thread might have something useful for you?Spoiler: Current Character List:
John Smith, Playing in the Dollhouse
Adam of Cyre, Cyre Red
Grok Magmaforge, Iron Crisis
ALADIN, Out of the Abyss
Jace/Elela, Right to Die
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2024-05-04, 03:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Noctuary (D&D 3.5e, Level 20+ Adventure)
Verik has been adjusted as I suggested.
CC, please let me know if the aura is overpowered.
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2024-05-04, 04:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2012
Re: The Noctuary (D&D 3.5e, Level 20+ Adventure)
I'm thinking of building an alternative character.
@Chain, how would an incarnum dragon's incarnum abilities increase with a prestige class? By reading "incarnum shaping class" as "age category"?
@anyone else, any suggestions for making One Ear more up to par, or is she suitable as is?GNU Terry Pratchett
Survived Total War: Mandate of Heaven as The Witch-Doctors
Thrived in Empire! 7 as the Sakura-Jin
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2024-05-04, 04:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Noctuary (D&D 3.5e, Level 20+ Adventure)
Last edited by Archmage1; 2024-05-04 at 04:18 PM.
Spoiler: Current Character List:
John Smith, Playing in the Dollhouse
Adam of Cyre, Cyre Red
Grok Magmaforge, Iron Crisis
ALADIN, Out of the Abyss
Jace/Elela, Right to Die
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2024-05-04, 04:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2012
Re: The Noctuary (D&D 3.5e, Level 20+ Adventure)
Fair! I gave an in-person accounting of One Ear's bit a while back, but I should include it in her sheet. Basically, like all Tibbits, she was the descendent of the cat familiar of an epic level Sorcerer. This particular Sorcerer was a powerful lich that used her as a guinea pig for experiments. Her attitude and sorcerous aptitudes got her promoted to apprentice. After adventurers killed the lich, One Ear resolved to find a way to bring him back.
Last edited by Feathersnow; 2024-05-04 at 04:23 PM.
GNU Terry Pratchett
Survived Total War: Mandate of Heaven as The Witch-Doctors
Thrived in Empire! 7 as the Sakura-Jin
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2024-05-04, 04:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2012
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Re: The Noctuary (D&D 3.5e, Level 20+ Adventure)
Yeah I'm not too fussed right now about how strong Haust is right now. If she gets picked I can fine tune it as we go. Druids are certainly the most adaptable class in that sense. The core concept of an ageless portent of death who seeks to use the Noctuary to bring her Death God back is kinda metal. Whether or not the Noctuary can even pull something like that off is something she'll need to find out herself.
"Don't think of it as dying," said Death,
"Just think of it as leaving early to avoid the rush."
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2024-05-04, 05:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Noctuary (D&D 3.5e, Level 20+ Adventure)
Same with Eilyra. She's currently configured for the upper midrange of power(As far as I see it): Kind of effective at dealing damage, kind of effective as a wizard, but well behind what could be done with a generous helping of cheese or even generally solid building.
I think that the character is a lot more important.
And then, after selection, getting everyone to roughly the same level of usefulness(Whether that is via reducing someone's power, or increasing someone's power) is also important, because frankly I don't think anyone enjoys playing a character that doesn't feel like they can contribute.Spoiler: Current Character List:
John Smith, Playing in the Dollhouse
Adam of Cyre, Cyre Red
Grok Magmaforge, Iron Crisis
ALADIN, Out of the Abyss
Jace/Elela, Right to Die
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2024-05-05, 02:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2011
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- Texas
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Re: The Noctuary (D&D 3.5e, Level 20+ Adventure)
I would like to apply with Venator.
Spoiler: Image of Venator
Spoiler: Build StubPaladin of Tyranny 4 / Crusader 2 / Ruby Knight Vindicator 1 / Telflammar Shadowlord 4 / Ruby Knight Vindicator +9
Spoiler: Mechanics and numbersOn a perfect round, Venator can self buff by expending a Rebuke Undead on Divine Impetus to gain an extra Swift action to fast cast a Paladin spell via Battle Blessing feat, then unleash a devastating triple full attack by performing Shadow Jaunt, Shadow Stride, and Shadow Blink in a single turn, triggering Shadow Pounce with each maneuver. Due to Crusader's maneuver granted mechanics, it's not something that can be done every round. There's some room to manipulate what's available via RKV's Divine Recovery, but with so many features and feats being fueled by the Rebuke Undead pool, there are limits.
On an ideal opening turn in which all of his attacks land, Venator can output devastating (~500 or so) damage. It requires quite a bit of luck to get the right maneuvers, resources in the form of Rebuke Undead attempts, and it requires all of the final iterative attacks to land despite the significantly reduced attack bonus.
Venator is a ruthless assassin hailing from a Necrocratic society who has become proficient with a combat style that is typically only usable by the undead due to how taxing it is (which is just personal fluff): Shadow Pouncing. He is unable to bring it to full bear continuously (Crusader recovery), but it is a merciless and deadly combat style nonetheless.
His Lich Lord has sent him in search of the Noctuary to use its power to extend the Lord's authority over all of the realms and planes. Whether Venator will uphold vows he was effectively coerced into remains to be seen.
Reasonable stealth and perception capabilities make for a passable scout. Some Paladin (of Tyranny) casting, Telflammar Shadowlord casting, and Crusader maneuvers provide limited utility and defense, but exceptional mobility and damage potential.
I think the only questionable thing is that I'm using Assassin's Stance to qualify for the 2d6 sneak attack requirement of Telflammar Shadowlord. If that's not acceptable, I'll have to rework the whole thing.
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2024-05-05, 08:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2014
Re: The Noctuary (D&D 3.5e, Level 20+ Adventure)
Added characterization to my big post.
Currently Recruiting WW/Mafia: Logic's Deathloop Mafia and Cazero's Graduates Of Hope's Peak - Danganronpa Mafia
Avatar by AsteriskAmp
My Homebrew
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2024-05-05, 07:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2012
Re: The Noctuary (D&D 3.5e, Level 20+ Adventure)
I have included a picture of One-Ear. The link might not be stable, but I'm not sure how else to show you all.
GNU Terry Pratchett
Survived Total War: Mandate of Heaven as The Witch-Doctors
Thrived in Empire! 7 as the Sakura-Jin
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2024-05-05, 08:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2022
Re: The Noctuary (D&D 3.5e, Level 20+ Adventure)
Treat the base incarnum dragon as having meldshaper levels equal to twice its age category, and advance from there. I think this is a coherent extrapolation, let me know if something breaks.
Added.
Assassin's Stance qualification is definitely rules legal and acceptable, though who can say whether it's intended.
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2024-05-05, 08:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2012
Re: The Noctuary (D&D 3.5e, Level 20+ Adventure)
Here's the thing- it becomes ambiguous because the amount of soulmelds available is determined by half age category rounded up, not meldshaper level. I suppose I could assume that that's one soulmeld per four prestige class bumps, which is in keeping with a soulborn, which is the class that is called out as the source of available soulmelds.
Edit- my build is a juvenile LE incarnum dragon that prestiges directly into Witchborn Binder. I am working on her in case One Ear is too "goody-goody" for an LE party.Last edited by Feathersnow; 2024-05-05 at 08:51 PM.
GNU Terry Pratchett
Survived Total War: Mandate of Heaven as The Witch-Doctors
Thrived in Empire! 7 as the Sakura-Jin
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2024-05-05, 09:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2022
Re: The Noctuary (D&D 3.5e, Level 20+ Adventure)
Ah, I see the problem. Hm. I think the closest thing to a rules legal interpretation is that you gain a virtual age category for each four meldshaping advancements, purely for the purposes of meldshaping. As you suggest.
Hm. Go with this for now, and let me know if any progression winds up severely stunted as a result.
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2024-05-05, 09:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2012
Re: The Noctuary (D&D 3.5e, Level 20+ Adventure)
That's actually one virtual age category per two bumps, because only the odd categories get extra soulmelds. This would put me at effective Meldshaper level 9 with two soulmelds at character creation, because Witchborn Binder is a half-progression class. However, it makes up for that with custom incarnum-like abilities and bonus essentia, capacity for which is still tied to HD, not level.
[EDIT]Wait- I might only get one soulmeld, depending on your ruling? I was going based on Shaper level/4.
So... I'm not terribly stunted, I think(?), and Incarnum dragons get UMD as a class skill, so I synergize with AvatarVecna.Last edited by Feathersnow; 2024-05-05 at 09:40 PM.
GNU Terry Pratchett
Survived Total War: Mandate of Heaven as The Witch-Doctors
Thrived in Empire! 7 as the Sakura-Jin
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2024-05-05, 10:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2022
Re: The Noctuary (D&D 3.5e, Level 20+ Adventure)
Yep, that was a brain freeze. One age category per two meldshaping steps.
You only get one more soulmeld by this reading. The incarnate dragon already had stunted soulmeld growth, then on top of that the Witchborn Binder has further stunted meldshaping growth.Last edited by chaincomplex; 2024-05-05 at 10:11 PM.