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Thread: A thread of loose ends
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2024-05-12, 10:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: A thread of loose ends
Also, there's a big difference between "Characters who are starting a new story arc will go to a place they haven't been before" and "The climax of a story will suddenly shift location to a place with no obvious dramatic significance." Usually, when the Oots goes to a place as part of an adventure, they finish the adventure there before leaving. But I doubt that anyone would have argued it was unlikely for the Order to go to anywhere in particular as part of a side adventure between gates.
The better analogy here would be "Before it turned out that all of Girard's descendants were dead there was no plot-relevant reason to move the climax of the story arc to the Empire of Tears... and so they didn't."
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2024-05-13, 10:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2020
Re: A thread of loose ends
Sure. It's also, incidentally, a good thing that we have been in agreement as far as that is concerned from the get-go.
Well. As someone who's very uncomfortable at a number of levels with the current state of affairs as regards the Azurite/Goblinoid conflict, despite rooting for Project Gobbotopia to succeed in a comparable number of ways, I must concede that point has a punch to it.
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2024-05-13, 10:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: A thread of loose ends
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2024-05-13, 10:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: A thread of loose ends
Well, if Cloistering the fortress prevents Xykon from getting there, that would be a good reason to think he didn't do it, right?
And if it *doesn't* prevent him from getting there (like, he can port to a quarter mile away and fly in), then it doesn't really stop the scenario from happening, right?
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2024-05-13, 10:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: A thread of loose ends
It prevents Xykon (and everyone else) from getting there though the vast majority of magical means. Nothing indicates it would prevent his soul from going back to the phylactery if his body was destroyed. So there's every reason to believe he did it and no reason to believe he didn't.
Going by how he described the fortress, i highly doubt anyone, even Xykon, can just "fly in". And even if he could, again, how would anyone follow him? Teleport is an escape spell, and nobody has ever demonstrated any ability to follow a teleporter in the strip to date.
And, again, no reason for Xykon to go there even if he thinks he is about to he defeated and wants to run somewhere else when he can go to any random spot anywhere to recuperate just as well, since, again, teleport is a "get out of danger free" card.
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2024-05-14, 04:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2022
Re: A thread of loose ends
Yes good point.
Redcloak’s arc is unlikely to be resolved by anything other than a major dolphin attack on the bridge. Chomp chomp chomp!
Yep, I agree. I don’t think Rich is going to end decades of work with a near literal dei ex machina.
As others have said, there’s no reason why Roy and Xykon can’t have a climatic duel at Kragor’s (Serini’s?) Gate, and no narrative reason for it to be at the Astral Fortress. Any other reason for anywhere other than the Gate is pretty weak, it could only really serve to seperate Roy from the rest of the Order, and Rich could achieve that somehow at Kragor’s Gate.
Will Roy fight Xykon one on one at some point? Probably, otherwise the Spell Splinter will be wasted foreshadowing and Elan will cry. And if he didn’t use it Roy will not be able to rub it in Eugene’s face that a fighter stopped epic level magic.Last edited by No good @ names; 2024-05-14 at 04:26 AM.
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2024-05-14, 06:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2004
Re: A thread of loose ends
Psions provably exist. Trace Teleport is a psionic ability. There's no reason to think Rich house ruled it out of the comic.
(Not that Xykon's astral fortress is a loose end in any way; I look forward to reading confused "wait why did Rich never do anything with Xykon's astral fortress?" posts after the comic has ended.)Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2024-05-14, 07:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: A thread of loose ends
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2024-05-14, 09:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2013
Re: A thread of loose ends
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2024-05-14, 09:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2020
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2024-05-14, 03:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Why? If he can access it any other way, then so can others, which defeats the entire purpose of the fortress. The only reason he'd have to access it would be to move the phylactery somewhere else, in which case he can access it easier than anyone else by the way phylacteries work.
Or, i suppose, he could want to put something else there as well, but more things being there only increases the odds people would want to look for them, which again decreases the value of the fortress. Doubly so when he is clearly capable of creating it so he can do it again for other things if he really needs to.
Anyway, fact is there's no practical or egotistical reason for him to ever want to go there unless he wants to move the phylactery out, in which case he has a foolproof and simple way to get directly to it which is impossible for anyone else to follow.
Oh come on. Those are all just Redcloak's neice at different points in the time stream.
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2024-05-14, 06:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2011
Re: A thread of loose ends
It all makes sense now! Redcloak's Niece is the monster that invaded Xykon's Astral Fortress, and she will reveal herself as the Terrasque as the Stickworld collapses. She will then eat The Snarl and become the most real of all the gods but with Laurin's psyonic powers.
What an epic beginning to the next thirty-year Stickverse based comic about Elan's Happy Ending!
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2024-05-14, 06:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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2024-05-15, 07:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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"Thursdays. I could never get the hang of Thursdays."-Arthur Dent, The Hitchhiker's Guide
"I had a normal day once. It was a Thursday." -Will Bailey, The West Wing
Roy will be Xykon's Final Boss
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2024-05-15, 07:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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2024-05-15, 08:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2023
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2024-05-15, 09:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2011
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- Sharangar's Revenge
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Re: A thread of loose ends
Warhammer 40,000 Campaign Skirmish Game: Warpstrike
My Spelljammer stuff (including an orbit tracker), 2E AD&D spreadsheet, and Vault of the Drow maps are available in my Dropbox. Feel free to use or not use it as you see fit!
Thri-Kreen Ranger/Psionicist by me, based off of Rich's A Monster for Every Season
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2024-05-16, 06:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2006
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- Israel
Re: A thread of loose ends
I might be dumb here or referring to something else, but I thought Minrah's secret is that she's gay and dwarves are very traditionalist so she hides it - which is why Thor makes sure to tell her it's ok by him, because he's not a homophobe.
Ceika made my avatar over a decade ago and the link has expired since, but people should still appreciate their work.
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2024-05-16, 07:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: A thread of loose ends
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2024-05-16, 07:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2016
Re: A thread of loose ends
My headcanon is that she wrote self-insert romance fanfics about Thor when she was a teen, and has been worrying over people being judgemental about it ever since she became a cleric ^^
But I don't see it being a loose end. Minrah's secret sounds deeply personal, and it is hers only to share or keep, after all. All that matters is that she feared others' reactions, and Thor is completely cool about it and won't rat her out. It establishes him as an overall nice person far more efficiently than his alignment would ever do. :)Last edited by Kardwill; 2024-05-16 at 08:00 AM.
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2024-05-16, 08:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2011
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Re: A thread of loose ends
Durkon's mother tells him she wants him to bring home a nice girl or boy - she doesn't seem to care which. That seems to imply the dwarves are not particularly judgemental of homosexuals. Have to see if I can track down that strip. - Edit: See DM91365's post below, where he found the strip.
As far as Minrah's secret, I don't recall any hints other than it's something she doesn't want Durkon to know about.Last edited by Lord Torath; 2024-05-16 at 12:59 PM.
Warhammer 40,000 Campaign Skirmish Game: Warpstrike
My Spelljammer stuff (including an orbit tracker), 2E AD&D spreadsheet, and Vault of the Drow maps are available in my Dropbox. Feel free to use or not use it as you see fit!
Thri-Kreen Ranger/Psionicist by me, based off of Rich's A Monster for Every Season
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2024-05-16, 08:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2011
Re: A thread of loose ends
I always thought Minrah's Secret was a blank space into which readers could write their own hangups. The absence of a reveal would be necessary, in this case.
And it can't be that bad; we've already had a character admit to being skilled in macrame.
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2024-05-16, 10:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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2024-05-16, 10:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: A thread of loose ends
Sneaky, sure, but I took the bait:
https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0983.htmlThis space for rent.
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2024-05-16, 11:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: A thread of loose ends
Warhammer 40,000 Campaign Skirmish Game: Warpstrike
My Spelljammer stuff (including an orbit tracker), 2E AD&D spreadsheet, and Vault of the Drow maps are available in my Dropbox. Feel free to use or not use it as you see fit!
Thri-Kreen Ranger/Psionicist by me, based off of Rich's A Monster for Every Season
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2024-05-28, 03:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2022
Re: A thread of loose ends
Been commented on, but I'll add as well: There's a monumental difference between locations and action/resolution sites being added into a story along the way, and doing so in what is certainly the Final Act of the story.
While at Azure City we could have said the exact same things about the likelihood of the party traveling to all of the four locations on the Western Continent related to Girard's gate (Sandsedge, incorrect gate location, Bleedingham, then finally Girard's pyramid). Yet, because we were still early in the story, and had multiple steps left to go, new locations can (should!) be added along the way. Same deal with the "adventures in the North" part of the story. Who could have predicted traveling to Tinkertown, then then Pinnacle Peak, then Firmament, before finally arriving at Kraagar's gate?
Each of these were places (and adventures) along the way to an endpoint (both physically and narratively). But in this case, we're reaching the end point not just of this Act, but of the entire story. You can't add new places to go with new clues/resolutions to be gained, since you're at the destination that all of those things earlier in the story pointed to. Now is time/place to tie up the loose ends. And let's not forget that the "end" we're tying up here is "kill Xykon and destroy his phylactery". The entire point of the side story of Redcloak swapping the phylactery is specifically to give a narratively reasonable explanation as to why both are in the same location when the Order faces Team Evil in the Final Dungeon (otherwise folks would be asking "why did Xykon have his philactery there, especially after the close call in the Azure City Throne room?"). The entire story purpose for the astral fortress is to provde explanation as to why Roy will be able to kill him and destroy his philactery right here and right now and *not* have to chase him down to a second location.
Why waste all of that build up?
I'll point out that the Fellowship did not have to step foot into Barad-Dur to defeat Sauron directly after The Ring was destroyed. So Sauraon was not defeated in his center of power.
Similarly, the SW heroes did not have to chase Palpatine to his throne room on Coruscant (or his secret sith lab/temple on Exigol) to defeat him either.
The exact parallel in this case is Xykon being killed in the Final Dungeon while attempting to complete The Ritual (that he thinks will grant him ultimate power). Both examples actually make a strong case as to why he will not retreat to the astral fortress.
Don't really remember too much detail about either, but I think others have posted as to how these aren't really accurate analogies to the situation at hand either.
Maybe... the location where he's gong to do his greatest evil and enslave the world to his will (ie: Final Gate)?
I actually agree with your thinking. Thor's plan is just a stop gap. The problem is that I thiink it's already been stated that the only way to make the entire world four quiddity strong would be to destroy this one, and make a new one with The Dark One participating. And I strongly doubt that's going to be the actual story resolution.
My assumption is that the snarl and the world in the rift will be explored (narratively and possibly physically as well), and provide some alternative solution that has not yet been presented. The nature of the snarl and the world in the rift are probably the biggest loose ends out there, and have plenty of unknown characteristics (sufficient to drive any size plot truck through), and could therefore be used for this purpose/resolution.
I have a few theories about that, but those fall more into prediction and not merely identification of the loose ends themselves. I will observe that it's pretty good writing to use one loose end to assist in resolving another, so there's pretty strong narrative reason to do things this way.
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2024-05-28, 04:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2011
Re: A thread of loose ends
The irony here is that these exact same arguments could have been used to prove the story would end at the end of DCF, or to give a better ending to War and XPs.
The entire story could have ended in either of those two places with minimal changes, mostly having to do with not including new reasons to not end the story there.
I do not insist the story must go to the Astral Fortress, but I do resist the idea that it can't. There was actually no reason the story had to go to Azure City either, before Paladin Blues.
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2024-05-28, 04:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: A thread of loose ends
Imean, I've never said it can't. IIRC I've openly acknowledged that yes, it is possible, because it's more than a bit silly to think it's not.
There's a difference between can't and won't. As i and others have said, you're claiming similar arguments could have been made at other points, which is objectively wrong, because those points weren't wrapping everything up. This is the final act. The other points weren't. Stories have structures and you're claiming that the rules for building a foundation are the same as the rules for building a roof. The things that may or may not happen in the beginning or middle are different than things that may or may not happen at the end.
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2024-05-28, 07:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2011
Re: A thread of loose ends
They were wrapping things up.
At the end of DCF nobody knew about the phylactery. If asked, The Author could have said Xykon was wearing it and it went kablooie in the gate. Redcloak could have been crushed under a pile of rocks along with the Crimson Mantle when Elan hit the Stupid Button. The Blood Oath fulfilled, Eugene could have gotten into Mt. Celestia and Roy could have gone off on some completely other adventure.
In War and XP we had the whole goblin equality issue which was neatly solved by their acquisition of a city. Had Roy tossed Xukon into the rift, Xykon could be in orbit ofRiftworldthe planet in the rift, (sorry, Copyright Cops.) The phylactery would be useless, and RC would have lots of reasons to cooperate with Vaarsivius in researching ways to seal the rip in reality that threatens all of his people.
Now we know the author had other things in mind at the time, but we didn't know that back then. By the rules of narrative you keep invoking, the story could have been completed at least twice, but the author chose otherwise.
Right now we are about halfway, give or take, through the Final Book™. The Author might drag out another dozen pages before The Final Climactic Battle, but then, what? Another hundred strips of epic battle? A quick battle followed by a hundred strips of denouement?
I think there is a lot more story to be told. I do not think it ends here. And I think, with the Calder battle being as epic as it is, that there is going to be a long gap between it and the real Final Battle™.Last edited by brian 333; 2024-05-28 at 07:16 PM.
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2024-05-28, 07:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: A thread of loose ends
Okay, except that didn't happen at the end of DCF. We saw Team Evil escape and that Xykon survived (as well as the hooks of the then-mysterious Miko in pursuit of them, and the Linear Guild plotting their next scheme).
Similarly, War and XPs ends with Roy dead, the party split up, and Xykon still alive.
Considering the Order's original goal was to kill Xykon, no, I don't think those would count as the story being plausibly finished.
I would bet it's more like 1/3.
But, yes, I suppose people could argue that the story ended after either of those books. People could argue anything. I haven't seen anyone do that, and less so see how such an argument could be made in line with the evidence we had at the time, but people could argue that.