Rogue benefit from multiple sneak attack.

[adb82]

Hello,
As we all know, the rogue can, theoretically, deal multiple sneak attack in a round, assuming they are not landing in the same turn. Here a build that try to maximize the number of possible sneak attacks that I'm preparing for a friend of mine that asked me for it. I would like to have some feedback.
The build is kinda simple just 3 LV of fighter for getting manouvers from Battle Master, than all the way Rogue Thief. The fact to get 5 superiority dice that recharge with short rest is very important for grant us Quick Toss and other manouvers. As Quick Toss don't start with "when you take the attack action...", i assume you can simply ready your action and than use quick toss (with sneak attack) as a bonus action and than deal a second sneak attack when the conditions of the "ready action" are satisfied and eventually even a third sneak attack via Brace or Riposte in a subsequent turn. Of course manouvers are limited to 5 for short rest, but it's anyway 10/15 manouvers in a day and we probably want use it only in the first round. For grant still more sneak attack when we don't want to use manouvers we can add sentinel as feat, probably using a whip for the juicy add on your reach and throwing knifes for Quick Toss. The thief subclass is there just for the capstone at lv 20: Thief's Reflexes that add a turn to your first turn, so it's basically at least another sneak attack per fight, but also the stealth bonus and the other features looks ok for the subclass (by the way, can he use scrolls with Fast Hands? I mean after Rogue LV 13, before i suppose he can't read any scroll).
How you would split the levels? Starting fighter or Rogue? For the combat style: dueling or another superiority dice? Uhm...im actually more for the superiority dice, but I'm not so sure. Any other suggestions?

Ps would be interesting get some feat like the one that add again a superiority die or even elven accuracy, but i didn't calculate if it's ok to start elf or half elf or it's recommendable to go Vhuman/custom.

[JNAProductions]

You only get one reaction per round.

[Dualight]

Keep in mind that a Readied Action takes up your Reaction. Same for Riposte and Opportunity Attacks. Since you get only 1 reaction/round, you cannot get more than 2 Sneak Attacks in a round (1 on your turn, 1 with your reaction on another creature's turn) unless you get some way of making multiple reactions (the only one I can think of is the 18th level feature of the Cavalier fighter, which gets 1 Opportunity Attack every turn without using their Reaction).

[adb82]

Keep in mind that a Readied Action takes up your Reaction. Same for Riposte and Opportunity Attacks. Since you get only 1 reaction/round, you cannot get more than 2 Sneak Attacks in a round (1 on your turn, 1 with your reaction on another creature's turn) unless you get some way of making multiple reactions (the only one I can think of is the 18th level feature of the Cavalier fighter, which gets 1 Opportunity Attack every turn without using their Reaction).

I didn't realize the "ready an action" takes up my reaction, so yea, this change a lot: it's 2 sneak attack per turn, only on Rogue 17 he gets a third sneak attack (possibly also a forth, as you have one turn more at initiative -10, so quick toss and ready an action twice it's a thing, as it is two times your turn in that round) in the first round of the fight. Anyway it's probably still perfectly playable, maybe riposte is not so good to pick and it can be changed with some other manouver, but luckly it all seems to work also with maximum 2 sneak attack. 😅

[Silly Name]

AFAIK, the only way to get multiple reactions is via the Cavalier Fighter's 18th level feature, "Vigilant Defender". But, of course, since it takes 18 level of Fighter to get it, you can't really optimise it with a Rogue multiclass.

Also, in any case, Bonus Actions only occur on your turn.

[adb82]

AFAIK, the only way to get multiple reactions is via the Cavalier Fighter's 18th level feature, "Vigilant Defender". But, of course, since it takes 18 level of Fighter to get it, you can't really optimise it with a Rogue multiclass.

Also, in any case, Bonus Actions only occur on your turn.

Yea, as I said i didn't notice that "ready an action" burn your reaction. But with 2 sneak attack for round i think it's anyway more than playable.
About the bonus action: i think I never assumed the contrary: the one and only bonus action i mention is Quick Toss and it happen on your turn with sneak attack, than on your turn you gonna "ready an action" and have another sneak attack in another turn, as quick toss don't ask you to perform the attack action before.

[Kane0]

AFAIK, the only way to get multiple reactions is via the Cavalier Fighter's 18th level feature, "Vigilant Defender". But, of course, since it takes 18 level of Fighter to get it, you can't really optimise it with a Rogue multiclass.

Or someone else turns you into a marilith

Or the UA tunnel fighter style

[Mastikator]

The sentinel feat seems like an option for this, but it does require that an enemy attacks your adjacent ally. If you have a barbarian in your party then they may encourage enemies to attack them instead of you by using reckless attack.

A 17th level scout can sneak attack two times per round using their bonus action, but it must be against two targets. You could potentially make 3 sneak attacks per round as a 17th level rogue scout. That is 27d6 sneak attack dice. It's *94.5 damage on average just from sneak attack every round without expending resources.

*not taking misses into account

[adb82]

The sentinel feat seems like an option for this, but it does require that an enemy attacks your adjacent ally. If you have a barbarian in your party then they may encourage enemies to attack them instead of you by using reckless attack.

A 17th level scout can sneak attack two times per round using their bonus action, but it must be against two targets. You could potentially make 3 sneak attacks per round as a 17th level rogue scout. That is 27d6 sneak attack dice. It's *94.5 damage on average just from sneak attack every round without expending resources.

*not taking misses into account

About Sentinel: that's why i would go with a Whip: being at 5 ft from an ally and at the same time at 10 ft from enemies, so i can still deal sneak attack, mostly without being attacked (except by things that also have reach, reach weapons, or ranged attacks). They can anyway move or whatever else, but using a whip it will be harder for them to attack me, especially if their speed is already 0 because they got hitted by a Sentinel opportunity attack that, if you didn't use Quick Toss on your turn, can come also from a Brace reaction and that mean they normally can't attack you without getting reach somehow or using ranged attacks.

About Rogue Thief 17: having Quick Toss you can even deal 4 sneak attack: first turn you take a bonus action for quick toss which can deal sneak attack, than prepare the action for a consequent sneak attack, on your second turn in the first round (at initiative -10) you have a whole turn again and that's include another bonus action, so you can again use quick toss with the bonus action and ready the action for the conseguent turn, dealing potentially 4 sneak attack in the first round.

[Witty Username]

I did have a thought at one point with reaction attacks,
You could have a whip in one hand and a dagger in the other. That way at both 5ft and 10ft an enemy could leave your reach.

Go with Hobgoblin for some weapons, and you have the look of a harsh taskmaster turned deserter.

[adb82]

Anyway, trying to be a bit more specific and correcting my mistake about the "ready an action" , the build should be something like this:

Half drow 8 Str, 17 Dex, 16 Con , 14 Cha, 10 Wis

Fighter 1/Thief 5/Battle Master 2/Thief 12

Total: Thief 17/fighter 3.

Feats would be: Elven accuracy and 18 Dex @5, Sentinel @11, 20 Dex @15, Martial Adept, or Alert, or Lucky @19 or whatever, it doesn't matter that much.

Manouvers: Quick Toss, Brace and I'm open to listen suggestions for the third one (maybe Evasive Footwork? For some situation i want to escape from for real), as Riposte is not that good: too many reactions.

Fighting style: I'm still not sure if dueling or Superior Technique.

I was thinking also in a version with Arcane Trickster, but here i must deal with the fact that i can't use a whip because it's not allowed with Booming Blade but, from the other side, i should kick in WarCaster for apply Booming Blade to opportunity attacks. Probably the race would be a Variant Human with Dex 16, con 16, with feats Sentinel @1, Dex 18 @5 warcaster @8, 20 Dex @12, whatever else @16, assuming arcane trickster 16/Battle Master 4. It should have better defense (for sure from Rogue LV 8 with shield spell, but in general spellcasting it's strong on anyone) and better damage (booming blade and green flame blade, also a familiar for an attack with advantage even after my turn, as long as the familiar perform the help action after my turn and having its own initiative this gonna happen kinda often) at the cost of the whip and so the reach of the weapon.


Which so you think works mechanically better?
Do you think is worth the MC? Or would be anyway better go Rogue all the way?

[adb82]

I did have a thought at one point with reaction attacks,
You could have a whip in one hand and a dagger in the other. That way at both 5ft and 10ft an enemy could leave your reach.

Go with Hobgoblin for some weapons, and you have the look of a harsh taskmaster turned deserter.

Hobgoblin don't qualify for elven accuracy unlucky and i have already all the weapons from the Fighter class from LV 1 anyway. But yes, the idea is this one.

[adb82]

Anyway, the point is that with 2 sneak attack for round it's probably not worth the fighter's 3 levels, also because quick toss is strong, but it deny any use of sentinel, that it require just to get the feat for make him anyway kinda covered for a mostly sure second sneak attack in a subsequent turn. The one thing that miss for the build to work is the proficiency with the whip and here comes other idea:

Just 1 lv deep hexblade.
Hexblade 1/Thief 19 would be way better than 3 LV in fighter. He gain proficiency with whips, he crit 19/20 against one target every short rest, he becomes SAD as he can use Cha for attack with the whip, but this is only partially true, because if he want to use a dagger in the other hand, having an opportunity attack also when enemies leave the 5ft reach of the weapon, than he must grow Dex as well, from the other side this is not mandatory, so he can just use a whip and deal with it, wearing a mid armor and shield being SAD, or prioritize Dex and keep Cha to 13. He gain anyway also 2 cantrips (im not sure which, as booming blade don't apply to the whip, probably mage hand and minor illusion, or create bonfire), and hex for concentration (this is gold for sure) and he reach to make till 4 sneak attack in a round at lv 18, not LV 20 as for the previous build. More than this, my bonus action is now free from quick toss and i can use it, for example for use a scroll from the warlock spell's list (or from any spell list and level from Rogue 13) with Fast Hands from the thief subclass + still having an attack action with sneak attack with the whip, movement and probably another sneak attack as opportunity attack if i place him well. Race probably is still half drow with the same stats, getting:

Elven accuracy and 18 Dex @5, Sentinel @9, Dex 20 @13... whatever.

But, and here there is other doubt I'm having, i can get till hexblade 3 for have a huge use of the darkness spell, as he is able, if needed, to cover and uncover the darkness due free object interaction + familiar's action "use an object" (I'm not sure they can use a free object interaction) for cover and uncover it near to whenever it's needed. It would be 2 use of Darkness for short rest + 1 use for day from half drow race: from 5 to 7 uses a day. More than this he gets a familiar for at least one attack with advantage every round when he can't use darkness and he gets invocations for devil's sight that is necessary for the darkness combo + one other invocation which I'm still not sure which could be, probably Eldricht mind. All for 2 more lv delay and hex, that can anyway be used in out of combat situation or when he can't use Darkness.

Still other way can be to forget about elven accuracy and use a Kobold for kinda all attacks with advantage (packs tactics) and a lots of fun being a kobold. 😅 In this case i would probably go just 1 dip LV hexblade and no more, with just the whip and Cha to hit and damage, starting with: str 8, Dex 14, Con 15, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 17, choosing as feats: Fey Touched: Gift of Alacrity, Misty Step and 18 Cha @5, Sentinel @9, 20 Cha @13, and probably Resilient and 16 Con @17

Do you think this is worth the dip in this way? Which way you would choose? Any suggestion is welcome.

[Hytheter]

AFAIK, the only way to get multiple reactions is via the Cavalier Fighter's 18th level feature, "Vigilant Defender". But, of course, since it takes 18 level of Fighter to get it, you can't really optimise it with a Rogue multiclass.

Cavalier 18/Rogue 1 be like "And all of my reactions add 1d6 sneak attack!"