More 2024 PHB Revelations from the GameInformer Article

[Theodoxus]

People complain Barbarians don't get to do anything but attack, and here's one that gives out THP to allies every round, that can suck enemies into melee and lock them there or teleport allies around the battlefield, add 10ft of reach to any Heavy weapon, and at their capstone they can misty step every round or Dimension Door the whole party as many times per day as they have rages (keep in mind that they recover rages on a short rest now, and one level after they get this they basically double their rages per day.)

Sea Druid gets concentration free flight while still being able to cast - a rarity for druids - as well as three useful resistances and constant damaging/pushing aura that doesn't require any actions and that they can put around themselves and/or others.

So the new hotness is also the best hotness? Sounds like powercreep... Why would I play the updated Berzerker when the other option is a Gundam mobile suit... And Sea sounds like 'yeah, we nerfed Moon into the dirt, so here's something we hope you REALLY like!'

My issue with the World Tree barb isn't mechanical. It's thematic. Mechanically, it's fantastic for all the reasons you listed. No doubt. But thematically it's just very narrow. It assumes a World Tree or equivalent in basically every world ever created, or that will be created, which is just silly. Sure, it can be reflavored and renamed, but it wouldn't have been that hard to just write it that way in the first place.

In any case, I will say the 2024 PHB is looking pretty solid, despite my rather vocal criticism through the playtests.

This too... hopefully they'll include a sidebar for it that explains how it works in, well, basically everywhere except Kobold Press's Midgard setting. /shrug.

[Zevox]

Not necessarily. Outside of being "Chosen," there's nothing particularly special about Mystra's seven daughters other than all of them being particularly stunning and silver-haired humans (and one drow).

The Seven Sisters are a weird situation where they're technically Mystra's daughters, but only because she was possessing their mother's body at the time. Not exactly the usual case for being the child of a deity.

[Psyren]

So the new hotness is also the best hotness? Sounds like powercreep...

Pretty sure I didn't say anything about it being "best." World Tree can teleport people, but Wildheart can fly + get a bunch of resistances, while Berserker is immune to charm and frighten and does the most raw damage, and Zealot is basically unkillable and can protect the entire party's saves. They're all good at different things, which is exactly what subclasses should be.

(And to be blunt, I don't understand why "power creep" is a dirty word around here either. Do you really think 2014 designs/power levels were perfect and can't be improved on? Because if so, all I can say is I'm glad you're not in charge of printing any books.)

And Sea sounds like 'yeah, we nerfed Moon into the dirt, so here's something we hope you REALLY like!'

Moon actually got buffed, I just personally hate it because they haven't really fixed the wonky beast scaling or book diving (though for the latter, at least having limited forms and locking you to the PHB without DM approval cuts down on that.) In practice, experienced druid players won't notice the limit anyway because they'll do what they always did, i.e. pick the forms that are blue and green in the wildshape handbook, and inexperienced players will likely be at easy tables so it won't matter what they pick anyway. Most of your damage will be from Fount of Moonlight or grappling enemies in your moonbeam etc rather than the animal form itself.

The Seven Sisters are a weird situation where they're technically Mystra's daughters, but only because she was possessing their mother's body at the time. Not exactly the usual case for being the child of a deity.

Well to be fair, we don't know the circumstances of Aylin's birth either. But I agree with your overarching point that the game simply calling her an Aasimar and implying that's where her very singular traits come from is misleading at best.

[KorvinStarmast]

Also glad to see Aasimar in core. Was always strange to me that Tieflings were but they weren't; was stranger still when that continued in the playtest yet they tried to add Aardlings.

I was one of many, it seems, who made the point on "Tieflings/Aasimar" need to both be in or neither need to be in. Glad they went with both.

Well, that sounds much better than the Catman / Frogman / Birdman / Lionman / Wolfman / Deerman / whatever-animalman that's been all the rage throughout non-core books

+100

I don't mind animal races, I just think 5.0 has waaaaay too many of them.

Agree.

Nice that Aasimar made it, but 12 classes deserves 12 species methinks... add Goblins and Kobolds and it's perfect in my mind.

No. Please don't.

And the price point is great ;)

You get what you pay for. If you are paying what you paid for a PHB in 2014 at the same price in 2024, my Spidey Sense tingles: prepare to be disappointed. (Or they saved a lot of money on the artwork?)

It's not D&D if you can't make your own stuff, magic or otherwise!

False.
You can play D&D without ever crafting anything.
Granted: in the original game, Magic Users (who could become wizards) were able to make magic items (potions at level 6 or 7). A form of crafting has been with us for a while, but There Was A Chance To Fail.
I dislike the "push button, get banana" approach to crafting magical items.
There needs to be a chance to fail, or for it to come out with unintended side effects.
(I realize that this isn't a universally held opinion).
Also: Genasi Needs to be Core! Dump the Gnomes! Sorry, had to get that off my chest.
(I like goliath being core, though).

No thanks. I love me some Planescape but i don't want all that stuff to be pigeonholed there.

Yeah, there is some room to work with overlap.

[Millstone85]

It assumes a World Tree or equivalent in basically every world ever created, or that will be created, which is just silly.

This too... hopefully they'll include a sidebar for it that explains how it works in, well, basically everywhere except Kobold Press's Midgard setting. /shrug.

I believe that WotC is sticking to the assumption that all campaign settings have been or will be eaten by Planescape, where the World Tree is a living portal hub connecting various Norse-themed locations scattered through the planes of the Great Wheel.

[Warlock'sFriend]

If warlocks don't get Tasha's Bubbling Cauldron on their list, I am going to be very upset. I've been wanting a cauldron focused warlock since I started playing them in 3.5.

[Schwann145]

No thanks. I love me some Planescape but i don't want all that stuff to be pidgeonholed there. Maybe a PHB II if you think it's too much in one book

I simply don't believe planetouched races/species/whatever should be in Core. They should be readily available, but Core feels inappropriate to me.
I suggest Planescape because the only published place you're likely to find them en masse is Sigil; they're rare in Greyhawk, Faerun, Eberron, etc.

No way - they would have to be utter morons to remove Tieflings from core now, when every bit of data we have (from both DDB and BG3) shows how overwhelmingly popular they are, and that's with the lamer 2014 versions with fixed ASIs and little customization.

Oh, for sure. There's no putting the genie back in that bottle. Consider that comment of mine a lament rather than a suggestion.

And since removing them isn't an option, including something in core to be their counterpart makes sense. If it wasn't going to be Ardling, which I still loved the concept of, I'll take Aasimar.

My issue is their "counterpart" is wholly incomplete by only adding Aasimar. Where are the Genasi (elemental)? Where are the Axani (lawful)? The Cansin (chaotic)? Shyfts (ethereal)? And so on and so fourth.

[Kurald Galain]

No way - they would have to be utter morons to remove Tieflings from core now, when every bit of data we have (from both DDB and BG3) shows how overwhelmingly popular they are

LOL, that reminds me of way back when WOTC decided to remove gnomes from the PHB for 4E, and had this advertisement like "hey, you know how gnomes suck! No more gnomes ever!"
...and then they got so much backlash that they hastily included them in the next book

[Witty Username]

Well to be fair, we don't know the circumstances of Aylin's birth either. But I agree with your overarching point that the game simply calling her an Aasimar and implying that's where her very singular traits come from is misleading at best.

There are winged tieflings, a winged assimar isn't all that concerning. Also Dame Alyn is a Paladin along with that, she isn't all that different than what a Chosen of Mystra is to a wizard.

Still mad you can't get her as a party member in act three, I hope mods have fixed that grievous error.

[KorvinStarmast]

LOL, that reminds me of way back when WOTC decided to remove gnomes from the PHB for 4E, and had this advertisement like "hey, you know how gnomes suck! No more gnomes ever!"

At least they got something right in 4e.
(Yes, I am sure there were others)

[Theodoxus]

LOL, that reminds me of way back when WOTC decided to remove gnomes from the PHB for 4E, and had this advertisement like "hey, you know how gnomes suck! No more gnomes ever!"
...and then they got so much backlash that they hastily included them in the next book

"I'm a monster! Rawr!" was the best take ever in a WotC commercial.

[Psyren]

LOL, that reminds me of way back when WOTC decided to remove gnomes from the PHB for 4E, and had this advertisement like "hey, you know how gnomes suck! No more gnomes ever!"
...and then they got so much backlash that they hastily included them in the next book

4e is absolutely crammed with abject lessons on what happens when you confuse vocal forum/messageboard discourse with the actual preferences of your wider playerbase

Thankfully, they have far superior data collection nowadays.

But thematically it's just very narrow. It assumes a World Tree or equivalent in basically every world ever created, or that will be created, which is just silly. Sure, it can be reflavored and renamed, but it wouldn't have been that hard to just write it that way in the first place.

There is one in Planescape, which means there is one in the Multiverse. I don't see how that is so different than assuming there is a Feywild connected to every world in some way, like Fey Wanderer/Dreams Druid/Glamour Bard do.

And you glossed over the "reflavor" point, but that really is the solution if you truly want your world to be disconnected from the concept of a multiversal tree. The key point to capture is a barbarian that can reposition allies and enemies; I could reconfigure it to be based on Astral or Graviturgic magic and still capture everything it does.

I simply don't believe planetouched races/species/whatever should be in Core. They should be readily available, but Core feels inappropriate to me.
I suggest Planescape because the only published place you're likely to find them en masse is Sigil; they're rare in Greyhawk, Faerun, Eberron, etc.

Look, I'm sorry you feel this way, but settings are allowed to evolve. Tieflings WERE rare, then DiA happened and now there's an explosion of them on the Sword Coast. Dragonborn WERE rare, and then the link to Abeir was reestablished. Core should represent the current state of the world(s) for that edition, not cling to some past portrayal and set of assumptions.

There are winged tieflings, a winged assimar isn't all that concerning. Also Dame Alyn is a Paladin along with that, she isn't all that different than what a Chosen of Mystra is to a wizard.

There's way more uniqueness to her than having wings. I doubt you could slap just any Aasimar into a binding circle and render the wizard who did so both immortal and invulnerable. So the game presenting that as just a thing you can do with Aasimar was a miss on Larian's part.

[Oramac]

There is one in Planescape, which means there is one in the Multiverse. I don't see how that is so different than assuming there is a Feywild connected to every world in some way, like Fey Wanderer/Dreams Druid/Glamour Bard do.

And you glossed over the "reflavor" point, but that really is the solution if you truly want your world to be disconnected from the concept of a multiversal tree. The key point to capture is a barbarian that can reposition allies and enemies; I could reconfigure it to be based on Astral or Graviturgic magic and still capture everything it does.

That's fair. And yea, reflavoring is really easy. Perhaps it's just me, but I find it easier to assume a setting has a mystical "Feywild" than to assume it has a Norse World Tree. But regardless, it's moot at this point since the Barb is pretty much set in stone, as far as we know.

There's way more uniqueness to her than having wings. I doubt you could slap just any Aasimar into a binding circle and render the wizard who did so both immortal and invulnerable. So the game presenting that as just a thing you can do with Aasimar was a miss on Larian's part.

Spoiler: Major BG3 Act 3 Spoiler

Show

Interestingly, you actually can kill Lorroakan after giving him the Nightsong and making him "immortal". There's even an achievement for it.

[da newt]

The 10 races now confirmed are:

1. Aasimar
2. Dwarves
3. Dragonborn
4. Elves
5. Gnomes
6. Goliaths
7. Halflings
8. Humans
9. Orcs
10. Tieflings

So no more halfelves or halforcs, but they still have halflings (but no 'lings' which has always rubbed me wrong) and half-fiends (tiefling) and half-angles (aasimar) and half-dragons (dragonborn)?

BTW why have there never been halfdwarfs or halfgnomes?

[Psyren]

So no more halfelves or halforcs, but they still have halflings (but no 'lings' which has always rubbed me wrong) and half-fiends (tiefling) and half-angles (aasimar) and half-dragons (dragonborn)?

BTW why have there never been halfdwarfs or halfgnomes?

There are actually going to be rules for half-humanoids of all kinds. This allows us to move away from humans being the only ones allowed to be half-X (so now you can have an Orc/Dwarf hybrid or a high-elf/drow mix) and it will make space for the missing half-races you mentioned in the bold. Paizo is doing something similar on their side as well, just with more mechanical weight behind it.

[Millstone85]

So no more halfelves or halforcs, but they still have halflings (but no 'lings' which has always rubbed me wrong) and half-fiends (tiefling) and half-angles (aasimar) and half-dragons (dragonborn)?

You forgot half-giants (goliath). And methinks the important question here is whether the full creature would be too much for a PC and needs to be halved. You can play an elf or an orc just fine, while a ling would obviously be overkill.

BTW why have there never been halfdwarfs or halfgnomes?

There have been half-dwarves.

There are actually going to be rules for half-humanoids of all kinds. This allows us to move away from humans being the only ones allowed to be half-X (so now you can have an Orc/Dwarf hybrid or a high-elf/drow mix) and it will make space for the missing half-races you mentioned in the bold. Paizo is doing something similar on their side as well, just with more mechanical weight behind it.

That is, more than none. 5.5 will just have you pick a species and reflavor it as being half another.

[Atranen]

Ironic that, with the name change to "species" (which I am a big proponent of), they are also eliminating the aspect that actually defines what a species is. When the mechanics mean "species", the designers say "race". When the mechanics say (cosmetic/race/ethnicity), they say "species".

Keep species, but make it mean something, imo.

[Zevox]

There are actually going to be rules for half-humanoids of all kinds.

"You can reflavor things" is not a rule, it's pointing out something that's always been true. Nice for legitimate newcomers, pointless for anyone else.

[Psyren]

"You can reflavor things" is not a rule, it's pointing out something that's always been true. Nice for legitimate newcomers, pointless for anyone else.

"Guidance" then, if you find "rule" objectionable for whatever reason. The point is that it will be explicitly allowed in the PHB; that's not just good for players, it will mean module writers can create NPCs using this guidance too, like a kindly dwarf/gnome couple an or something.

And sure you can say that tables could always do this, but the fact is that most of them weren't despite clearly wondering about the possibility, so I'd say the permission slip being written down is welcome.

[paladinn]

Gasp! What? No Warforged?? I'm out!

(Sarcasm)

So far I'm pretty underwhelmed.

[pothocboots]

And sure you can say that tables could always do this, but the fact is that most of them weren't despite clearly wondering about the possibility, so I'd say the permission slip being written down is welcome.

Or maybe those tables did realize they could do it, and also realized it's a horrible way of actually representing a mixture of species.

It just doesn't achieve the stated design goals, and is so low effort it would likely be better if it wasn't included so that WoTC would have a drive to provide a proper species intermixing system.
With it included they can check off the box saying they included it, when they really really haven't.

[Schwann145]

Look, I'm sorry you feel this way, but settings are allowed to evolve. Tieflings WERE rare, then DiA happened and now there's an explosion of them on the Sword Coast. Dragonborn WERE rare, and then the link to Abeir was reestablished. Core should represent the current state of the world(s) for that edition, not cling to some past portrayal and set of assumptions.

You're doing a great job of supporting my anti-Core point, actually.
You just dropped two very setting-specific justifications. I agree with them in regards to Faerun.
Now what explains a higher tiefling population on Oerth, where DiA didn't happen? And why are there Dragonborn stats at all, considering they don't exist there?

[Zevox]

Or maybe those tables did realize they could do it, and also realized it's a horrible way of actually representing a mixture of species.

It just doesn't achieve the stated design goals, and is so low effort it would likely be better if it wasn't included so that WoTC would have a drive to provide a proper species intermixing system.
With it included they can check off the box saying they included it, when they really really haven't.

Indeed. It's what you resort to because you have nothing better, not because it's a good way to handle it.

Of course, we do have better for Half-Elves and Half-Orcs at least. WotC is simply deciding to throw those away.

[Psyren]

Or maybe those tables did realize they could do it, and also realized it's a horrible way of actually representing a mixture of species

It just doesn't achieve the stated design goals, and is so low effort it would likely be better if it wasn't included so that WoTC would have a drive to provide a proper species intermixing system.
With it included they can check off the box saying they included it, when they really really haven't.

I don't think not having it would be better, so if I have to choose between them making me happy and making you happy I'm gonna have to choose me.

Of course, we do have better for Half-Elves and Half-Orcs at least. WotC is simply deciding to throw those away.

Orcs should have been a core race long ago. Gygax's milquetoast "you can be kind of an orc but not really" was never a good idea, outside of maybe a setting like Middle-Earth, which he doesn't even own.

You're doing a great job of supporting my anti-Core point, actually.
You just dropped two very setting-specific justifications. I agree with them in regards to Faerun.
Now what explains a higher tiefling population on Oerth, where DiA didn't happen? And why are there Dragonborn stats at all, considering they don't exist there?

I wasn't aware we had Tiefling and Dragonborn stats for Oerth (link?) but the principle is the same. They own the setting/IP and their desired end state is clear, so they can write a justification to get us there. It's all fiction at the end of the day, getting overly attached to a past portrayal is the thing you need to get past. (Or don't.)

[Theodoxus]

I wasn't aware we had Tiefling and Dragonborn stats for Oerth (link?)

Pretty sure that's the point. The idea being that the races in the PHB are generally universal. So, Tiefling and Dragonborn (and the various human ethnicities straight out of FR) "should" be found in every core setting. Yes, DMs are always within their rights to decide that something doesn't exist, but there's not even a sidebar in the 2014 rules regarding races in disparate settings (or lack thereof). At least in the 2014 PHB, they were considered 'exotic' and listed outside the other alphabetical races, so there was some semblance of 'gee, maybe I should ask if this is kosher in my DMs world' - but I'd be shocked if that was a regular occurrence at most session zeros if the DM wasn't already restricting races outright.

And maybe the 2024 book will also list Aasimar, Tieflings, and Dragonborn as exotic again. But it's kinda sounding like they're just gonna be listed in alphabetical order from Aasimar to Tiefling and all the elves, dwarves, and humans in between.

...but the principle is the same. They own the setting/IP and their desired end state is clear, so they can write a justification to get us there. It's all fiction at the end of the day, getting overly attached to a past portrayal is the thing you need to get past. (Or don't.)

True. It'd just be nice if there was some consistency. However, given the turnover of what, most, if not all the devs between 2014 and now, such consistency would be a miracle.

[Kurald Galain]

BTW why have there never been halfdwarfs or halfgnomes?

Half-elves exist because they're a big deal in Tolkien (althought they're a big deal specifically because there's only a handful of them).
Half-orcs exist because orcs were considered Always Chaotic Evil several decades ago.

...yeah, I think we can do without those as explicit "races". I excluded them from my own homebrew setting a looong time ago (substituting full orcs for half-orcs). I'm okay with individuals being of custom lineage, but I don't like making a whole race and culture out of a specific half-human-hybrid.

[Zevox]

Orcs should have been a core race long ago. Gygax's milquetoast "you can be kind of an orc but not really" was never a good idea, outside of maybe a setting like Middle-Earth, which he doesn't even own.

I agree. "Add Orcs" and "throw out Half-Elves and Half-Orcs" are two completely different and unrelated actions, however. Especially with Half-Elves, who they can't even try to argue redundancy with.

[Psyren]

I agree. "Add Orcs" and "throw out Half-Elves and Half-Orcs" are two completely different and unrelated actions, however. Especially with Half-Elves, who they can't even try to argue redundancy with.

They're not "thrown out," they still exist. They just don't have a discrete mechanical entry. That's fine. Things like the lifespan difference are still there even.

Half-elves exist because they're a big deal in Tolkien (althought they're a big deal specifically because there's only a handful of them).
Half-orcs exist because orcs were considered Always Chaotic Evil several decades ago.

...yeah, I think we can do without those as explicit "races". I excluded them from my own homebrew setting a looong time ago (substituting full orcs for half-orcs). I'm okay with individuals being of custom lineage, but I don't like making a whole race and culture out of a specific half-human-hybrid.

Exactly.

Pretty sure that's the point. The idea being that the races in the PHB are generally universal. So, Tiefling and Dragonborn (and the various human ethnicities straight out of FR) "should" be found in every core setting. Yes, DMs are always within their rights to decide that something doesn't exist, but there's not even a sidebar in the 2014 rules regarding races in disparate settings (or lack thereof). At least in the 2014 PHB, they were considered 'exotic' and listed outside the other alphabetical races, so there was some semblance of 'gee, maybe I should ask if this is kosher in my DMs world' - but I'd be shocked if that was a regular occurrence at most session zeros if the DM wasn't already restricting races outright.

Indeed, that's the point, and I approve. Folks who want to play a historic version of Toril/Oerth/etc that was more Tolkien-focused (i.e. boring) are free to do so.

[Zevox]

They're not "thrown out," they still exist. They just don't have a discrete mechanical entry.

You know full well that's what is being referred to here. And there is no good reason to do it.

[Psyren]

You know full well that's what is being referred to here. And there is no good reason to do it.

I know what you mean and am allowed to challenge/reject it, as well as to disagree that there isn't a good reason for it.