[WFRP] The Bloody Crown OOC XV

[LCP]

Just to chip in with a bit of GM commentary on the Caerfort side... I think Elsa might want to seriously consider how long just carrying on with her research is going to be an option for. If Sforza believes there's a potential rebellion in the Thornwood, how is he going to feel about leaving her, her guards, and the book stranded down in Caerfort?

You can look at the map and see how long it might take news to reach Sforza, and for Sforza's decisions to reach Caerfort, and compare that to how long you've set aside for ritual research - those timescales are information Elsa will be aware of too.

[rax]

Finally, an IC post from Bardhyl! Neither as impressive nor as far-reaching in terms of moving things along as I hoped, but if I can get some IC feedback I know where I want to go next.

[TheSummoner]

Sieghard should ask if the hoofprints he saw was Lankdorf, was Lankdorf trying to go past the town?

That's a good idea, yeah. Probably still best to have the area scoured while we're waiting for the men in Ravenskird to join us, but no harm in asking.

Just to chip in with a bit of GM commentary on the Caerfort side... I think Elsa might want to seriously consider how long just carrying on with her research is going to be an option for. If Sforza believes there's a potential rebellion in the Thornwood, how is he going to feel about leaving her, her guards, and the book stranded down in Caerfort?

You can look at the map and see how long it might take news to reach Sforza, and for Sforza's decisions to reach Caerfort, and compare that to how long you've set aside for ritual research - those timescales are information Elsa will be aware of too.

Also might be worth considering whether or not Sforza will think he can trust Elsa once he learns of this. If he's figures out her history with Sieghard, will he be willing to trust her loyalty?

Sieghard might not be trying to drag Elsa into this, but Sforza doesn't know that and you know Irene will suggest that Elsa is somehow involved. That she's too dangerous to let live if there's any chance she might side with Sieghard and also turn against him.

[LeSwordfish]

My response to Sieghard is pending Lenkdorf's response.

[RossN]

That's a good idea, yeah. Probably still best to have the area scoured while we're waiting for the men in Ravenskird to join us, but no harm in asking.



Also might be worth considering whether or not Sforza will think he can trust Elsa once he learns of this. If he's figures out her history with Sieghard, will he be willing to trust her loyalty?

Sieghard might not be trying to drag Elsa into this, but Sforza doesn't know that and you know Irene will suggest that Elsa is somehow involved. That she's too dangerous to let live if there's any chance she might side with Sieghard and also turn against him.

Irene will also know (or guess) that if Jarla has gone rogue she'll have told Ludo and/or Elsa about Irene's plans to kill them so she'll have that hanging over her head.

[-Sentinel-]

Just to chip in with a bit of GM commentary on the Caerfort side... I think Elsa might want to seriously consider how long just carrying on with her research is going to be an option for. If Sforza believes there's a potential rebellion in the Thornwood, how is he going to feel about leaving her, her guards, and the book stranded down in Caerfort?

You can look at the map and see how long it might take news to reach Sforza, and for Sforza's decisions to reach Caerfort, and compare that to how long you've set aside for ritual research - those timescales are information Elsa will be aware of too.

Indeed, but I'm not sure what is to be done about it. Elsa doesn't have the authority to move this whole operation elsewhere (or the means to do so in a secretive manner), and she's certainly not willing to abandon the Book.

I was really hoping I could count on other party members to bring me the ritual ingredients, but it appears they're all busy.

[Thragka]

As I said, Urgrim's still intending to follow up on the ingredients, at the very least by getting the chunk of obsidian crafted in the Dwimmulhold. He's the only PC in the east without a real relationship to the Sforzas, and I'm hoping that means he'll have a little more freedom of movement, regardless of what happens next in the Thornwood. So I just wouldn't rule out the possibility that Elsa can take some proactive steps without authority or secrecy, depending on how things shake out.

[TheSummoner]

Just a heads up, I'm likely to have very limited availability over the weekend.

[LCP]

Me too - I'm off to a folk festival this evening, back Monday night.

Thragka, can I get a Follow Trail test for Urgrim, to see how well he can chase Molli?

[Thragka]

Thragka, can I get a Follow Trail test for Urgrim, to see how well he can chase Molli?

Certainly! Follow Trail 54 - (1d100)[18], Fortune - (1d100)[29]

[Thragka]

Having caught up with (whom he presumes to be) Molli, Urgrim’s actually going to wake her up and have a chat with her. His intentions are fairly open-ended, so I think this would possibly work best if we RP the conversation in real time. I’d be happy to do so on Discord at some point this coming week – once you’re back from your festival, and I’ve made some headway with this pile of student exam scripts I’m marking – and then we could copy the finished conversation back to the boards, say?

[LCP]

Sounds smart. Would lunchtime or 5-6pm tomorrow work?

[Thragka]

5(-6) p.m. tomorrow suits me!

My students have a high average mark but also a high failure rate. I guess I’m a polarising experience.

[Thragka]

c'mon Urgrim let this be the time you succesfully talk to a young human woman

Charm 32 - (1d100)[53], Fortune - (1d100)[18]

[LeSwordfish]

I think perhaps Ludo and Sieghard are talking past each other a little, so to step outside the grumpy RP: All I'm suggesting is that Jarla rides to Ravenskird, deals with the messenger if they're there, and then return with Ingwald's thorns. I don't think we'll lose much by doing that - it’s not far to Ravenskird, they'll be with us by the end of the following day. I don't have a particular objection to us then riding south to deal with Corrado's men, but think we should all be grouped up before we do that. We may be equal on numbers but they have better armour and weapons than us, so I think a pitched battle is very risky without every asset we have.

I kind of liked the idea of sending Sussman some false orders. If we want to present those as being from Sforza, we're risking a lot by waiting for a reasonable time for a messenger to travel there and back. I think we'd be in a much more comfortable position if, for example, we could instruct Sussman to send half his men north, and then defeat them in detail in two groups. I really don't rate us against thirty armoured pikemen all at once, but two groups of fifteen? We can take'em.

@LCP: as well as Corrado's men and Hanna's thorns, what other soldiers are there in Manaan's Keep? Some of the old militia, right? Do we know roughly how many?

[TheSummoner]

Jarla isn't a tracker. If nothing else, send Gustaf with her. If we assume there is a second rider, we aren't certain whether they're headed for Ravenskird or Arrow Heap (though Mort could probably indicate which is more likely).

My thoughts were to send Sussman with a false order to the effect of "I've marched south and taken Ravenskird. Painford is encircled, the Iron Company are to immediately march north to join the main force as quickly as possible" then we either ambush them on the road or after they've settled down to make camp and removed their armor. I do think we can take all 30, but we'd need the element of surprise... And preferably to tire them out from a long march. It would certainly be easier to take them in the field than to try to take Manaan's Keep with them defending it.

[Thragka]

God, yes, I’m so ready for Urgrim prosecuting an honourable guerrilla warfare campaign in the Thornwood.

[LeSwordfish]

Ah, I see where the confusion is now. Ludo's not suggesting that Jarla tries to follow the trail, just head straight for Ravenskird and talk to people there. Even if our rider is deliberately avoiding Painford, they have to cross the river somewhere. If that was Ravenskird, they might be still there, or have delayed there. If not, then maybe not, but I don't know if I think a tracker can catch a horseman on rough ground if they're headed to Arrow Heap or somewhere. I guess Urgi managed it so maybe i'm wrong. But we need to get Ingwald and his guys anyway.

My thoughts were to send Sussman with a false order to the effect of "I've marched south and taken Ravenskird. Painford is encircled, the Iron Company are to immediately march north to join the main force as quickly as possible" then we either ambush them on the road or after they've settled down to make camp and removed their armor. I do think we can take all 30, but we'd need the element of surprise... And preferably to tire them out from a long march. It would certainly be easier to take them in the field than to try to take Manaan's Keep with them defending it.

Yeah - I think this would work, but any such message from Sforza is going to need to wait a few days. (Another day's ride minimum for Lenkdorf to reach Savonne, then maybe one for a messenger to get back to painford? Add another day to that if we want Sforza to say he's done anything.) Do we have three days to spare now? When for all we know Valdez is already on the warpath.

We can't even rely on Sforza being distracted by Bardhyl in the Raven Hills - he's not going to hear about it for a while.

[TheSummoner]

Yeah - I think this would work, but any such message from Sforza is going to need to wait a few days. (Another day's ride minimum for Lenkdorf to reach Savonne, then maybe one for a messenger to get back to painford? Add another day to that if we want Sforza to say he's done anything.) Do we have three days to spare now? When for all we know Valdez is already on the warpath.

We're already looking at probably 2 days before we can recall the Thorns in Ravenskird. To account for Valdes, the non-meta solution is to just include orders for him to hold down Manaan's Keep. Specify the in the letter that Sforza marched into Ravenskird unopposed and is moving on Painford with plans to encircle it if Sieghard is found there, but hasn't arrived as of time of writing.

We can't even rely on Sforza being distracted by Bardhyl in the Raven Hills - he's not going to hear about it for a while.

Nope. More likely, we'll end up being the distraction for him. I have put some thought into this but didn't want to get too far ahead since the situation could change. In general though, my thoughts were to chokepoint him and bleed him every step of the way. We probably don't win a straight battle... So we don't offer him one. Since we are somewhat getting future planning...

RossN, I don't know what you've got in mind for Jarla, but I have thought of a few possibilities for what role she could play in all of this.

A) The simplest option is to just have her stick with Sieghard and Ludo. This provides another hard hitter on the Thornwood side of things.
B) Sieghard does need to send word to Bardhyl. He could send a Thorn as a messenger, but if you think that'd be more interesting, Jarla could go instead. This puts a bit more strength up north, and gives Bardhyl someone who isn't a NPC to interact with. It also could make that side of things more of a tragedy (whether you consider that a bonus narratively or a negative) since that front is bound for conflict with Carraciolo.
C) The message we intercepted mentioned nothing about Jarla playing a role in what happened in Manaan's Keep. Assuming there even is a second messenger, there's no reason they'd be carrying a different message. That means Sforza has no reason to distrust her yet which in turn means she could do a lot to undermine his efforts. Delay him. Confuse him. Leak information to Sieghard and Bardhyl. There's risk here, but also a chance to destroy him from within.

[LeSwordfish]

God, yes, I’m so ready for Urgrim prosecuting an honourable guerrilla warfare campaign in the Thornwood.

call that Dawi Zedong

We're already looking at probably 2 days before we can recall the Thorns in Ravenskird. To account for Valdes, the non-meta solution is to just include orders for him to hold down Manaan's Keep. Specify the in the letter that Sforza marched into Ravenskird unopposed and is moving on Painford with plans to encircle it if Sieghard is found there, but hasn't arrived as of time of writing.

I think this is feasible. I was wondering if Ludo could put his hypnohobbit powers to use here in some way - travel south with the message, persuade Sussman that he doesn't know what's going on and not all the Thorns have turned traitor... I don't know if it would work.

I think if there are Volunteers or Militiamen in Manaan's Keep, Ludo should talk to them - it might be possible to persuade them that they should be at least loyal enough to Sieghard over Sforza to not back up the Iron Company. Or if we can defeat Corrado's men in the field, they might be persuaded to surrender the town.

Nope. More likely, we'll end up being the distraction for him. I have put some thought into this but didn't want to get too far ahead since the situation could change. In general though, my thoughts were to chokepoint him and bleed him every step of the way. We probably don't win a straight battle... So we don't offer him one.

What's the long term goal here?

[Thragka]

call that Dawi Zedong

Amazing. That’s going in the Little Book.

[-Sentinel-]

Congrats on resolving the messenger situation without bloodshed. I feared Urgrim was planning to kill Molli.

[Thragka]

Full disclosure: if the diplomatic approach hadn’t worked, Urgrim was going to rationalise that his “the letter is a weapon” reasoning meant that Molli was armed, and challenge her to a duel for it (maaaybeee lending her a dagger); if she declined the duel, then she would be honourless enough that he could further rationalise attacking her as an urk. And then I was probably going to pick up some voluntary Insanity Points. But I’m glad things worked out the way they did!

[TheSummoner]

What's the long term goal here?

Sieghard's stance at the moment is more or less "I'm done with this crap. The Thornwood is under my protection and you're not going to starve it to feed yourself. **** off and leave us alone," At the moment, Savonne and the north really aren't as much of a concern so if Sforza would just realize that trying to rule with an iron fist isn't going to work and take the L, that would probably be the end of it.

We know of course, that he won't do that. If he wants to maintain control of the south and make a point about people trying to oppose him, then he has to send men to retake the Thornwood and Sieghard's head along with it. Knowing what he has to do, we fortify and prepare as best we can. Sforza has more men at his disposal and heavier troops. We know the territory and have the advantage in range, speed, and troop loyalty. The Iron Company isn't going to turn against him. The ogres are unlikely but not impossible. Valdes I believe could be convinced to stay neutral though I'm less confident he'd ever take arms against Sforza. The Volunteers and Halberdiers can almost certainly be convinced to join Sieghard, especially if we can force Sussman to produce evidence of Sforza's dealings with the orcs. The most interesting one to discuss is the Gamecocks. They're Sforza's only quick ranged unit. Probably the one most capable of being a problem if we focus on guerilla tactics. Sforza's also treated them like garbage and cannon fodder, though. I think they can be turned against him.

So Sforza tries to march south and we do what we can to erode his support while making it hell for him every step of the way. Constant small scale hit and run attacks to both pick off soldiers where we can and exhaust them. Set fire to their tents and supplies, don't give them a chance, and wear them down as much as possible. Do well enough at that and eventually we do hit a point where they can be defeated outright. Sforza either dies or he's been bled so much that he can't actually stop us if we say "well, so much for **** off and leave us alone" and go on the offensive.

[LCP]

@LCP: as well as Corrado's men and Hanna's thorns, what other soldiers are there in Manaan's Keep? Some of the old militia, right? Do we know roughly how many?

Not many at all. Most of Valdes' forces are in Last Water with Valdes; Sussman just has enough of the old militia to work as a town guard for Manann's Keep. Probably about a dozen.

I'm off tomorrow for a short break (in Norway!) - back on Thursday.

[LeSwordfish]

That sounds like not too hard a group to deal with. If it's that few, perhaps we could give an order that splits the Iron Company - half return north with the food, half stay there to keep the peace. Anything to divide them.