The 7 Joys of Role-Playing Games

[Easy e]

I ran across this video from Dave....



He basically breaks the 7 Joys into the following areas:

1. Problem-solvers - Firefight and solve issues with inventive solutions
2. Story Weavers - Narrative and plot first
3. Wanderlust - Like to explore the world
4. Genre Heads - Focused on specific tropes and genres
5. Tacticians - Challenge and combat focused players
6. Hero Crafters - Want to see how their character develops and their story, not necessarily plot
7. Humanists - Primary goal is to have fun socially with their friends around the table

I am not saying these are definitive or all inclusive. In fact, his approach is to put games into these buckets to point out what they lean towards in their design. As is the nature of such lists, no one will agree with the categories, the choices, or anything Dave says.

I am curious, if you ranked yourself, which of THESE 7 categories would be in your top 3 reasons you play a TTRPG?

I would lean into the following order:

1. Story-Weaver
2. Herocrafter
3. Humanist
4. Genre Head
5. Wanderlust
....
6. Problem Solver
7. Tactician

Being on this forum has taught me that a lot of things I thought were "givens" or baseline understandings of how RPGs work are nothing of the sort. I am old enough that I should not be surprised by this. I still am. Yeah, sometimes I am an idiot!

I am interested to see where other people put there top and bottom choices.

[NichG]

Wanderlust, Problem Solver, Story Weaver, Hero Crafter, Genre Head, Humanist, Tactician I guess?

The top two are clearly above the next three are clearly above the last two for me. None have zero or negative value though...

[RedMage125]

I don't know where to put "Humanist", as, to me, that goal is always accomplished by doing the others.

But for me, top 3 are:
Tactician and Problem-solver tied for first
Followed closely by Story Weaver
I guess Hero Crafter comes next, because...
Wanderlust and Genre Heads are WAAAYYYY at the bottom.

[Quertus]

This sounds like the "8 Kinds of Fun", just missing Sensory. That said, just from the descriptions given, I give a slightly different answer than I would if I just assumed they were the 8 kinds of fun rebranded. So, taking them at face value...

1 Wanderlust - I don't just want to explore "the world", but "explore a concept" or otherwise, you know, think about stuff.
2 Hero Crafters - 2 of the 3 letters in "RPG" seem related to this; also, it's the biggest component I"ll carry with me to the next game (unlike Wanderlust (above) or Tactics / Problem Solving (below), where fresh concepts and challenges are more interesting than retreading old ground).
3 Tactiian / Problem Solver - which of these ties into Combat as War and "Wanderlust" (above)? I enjoy, "Given that the Mobile Fortress Destroyer is mindless, let's just move our town out of its path, problem solved." style of clever solutions to challenging problems.
...
Humanist - seems the best way to interact with the strange alien race that inhabits this world.
Genre Head - "I play mages" - does that count?
...
6 Problem Solver / Tactician - RPG combat is usually inferior to a good war game; also, player agency trumps artificial challenge.
7 Story Weavers - no thanks, I'd rather read a book or watch a movie, as that's simultaneously a far more efficient method of consuming a story and likely a better story to boot.

[Jason]

These all seem to be reasons the players play. Do the same reasons apply for why GMs GM?

[Xervous]

These all seem to be reasons the players play. Do the same reasons apply for why GMs GM?

Potentially? Let’s look at the necessary reflections and inversions behind the screen


1. Problem-solvers - Firefight and solve issues with inventive solutions

The GM is the one providing the scenarios and observing the players’ creativity. I can wholeheartedly confirm there is great fun in setting up a Rube Goldberg of a scene and watching the players crash through walls, set things on fire, and cause wonderful unexpected resolutions.


2. Story Weavers - Narrative and plot first

This one works on both sides of the screen.


3. Wanderlust - Like to explore the world

The GM doesn’t explore the world, they build it.


4. Genre Heads - Focused on specific tropes and genres

Works on both sides. (Though I think this is a bad category when compared to the 8 types of fun).


5. Tacticians - Challenge and combat focused players

The GM holds all the cards in most systems, the GM doesn’t really get challenged. The inversion is the… something something SFW answer that likes challenging the players.


6. Hero Crafters - Want to see how their character develops and their story, not necessarily plot

GMs can absolutely be in it for seeing how the PCs grow and develop as characters.


7. Humanists - Primary goal is to have fun socially with their friends around the table

Why of course it applies!

[Mastikator]

So here's how I would rank them as a player.

1. Tactician
2. Problem Solver
3. Humanist
4. Wanderlust
5. Hero crafter
6. Story-weaver
7. Genre head

It's not surprising, my favorite computer game genre is strategy games. Civ, stellaris, endless legend, warcraft 3. I also enjoy employing "local" strategy, I love XCom and I enjoy the tactical aspect of Helldivers. Even with roleplaying games (that I enjoy) I prefer the ones with mechanical and tactical depth, like BG3 and Morrowind.
I put humanist 3rd because I like doing all of these with my friends above all else. Any game is instantly better if I'm playing with a friend.

The reason I put wanderlust so high is because I like good exploration when it is followed up by exploitation.


As a GM though?

These all seem to be reasons the players play. Do the same reasons apply for why GMs GM?

To crush the players, see the driven before me, and hear the lamentations of the women.

[Jason]

To crush the players, see the driven before me, and hear the lamentations of the women.

That is good!

[Easy e]

These all seem to be reasons the players play. Do the same reasons apply for why GMs GM?

The video is actually lumping games into the different categories instead of players or GMs.

However, I don't really see why these categories do not apply to all players (including GMs).

[Biggus]

For me humanist is head and shoulders above the others. I've tried playing with people who weren't friends and after a while decided I'd rather not play at all than play with people who I don't actively like. I'm quite surprised to see that nobody else so far has put this higher than third: I know for a fact that everyone else in my current group - and in fact most other people I've played with - would put this first.

None of my other major reasons for liking gaming are on the list so I'm struggling a bit to put the others in order because none of them are things I care about very much. I guess it'd go something like:

2) genre
3) tactician
4) problem-solver
5) wanderlust
6) story weaver
7) hero crafter

[Quertus]

For me humanist is head and shoulders above the others. I've tried playing with people who weren't friends and after a while decided I'd rather not play at all than play with people who I don't actively like. I'm quite surprised to see that nobody else so far has put this higher than third: I know for a fact that everyone else in my current group - and in fact most other people I've played with - would put this first.

I mean, people have to transition from "stranger" to "friend" somehow, right? What better way to do anything, let alone make that transition, than through gaming?

Similarly, as far as "Humanism" is concerned, I could theoretically do anything with friends: go to an amusement park together, watch a movie together, sit in a foxhole together, bury a body together, jump off a cliff together. So "Humanism" can be achieved easily through NI other means. The rest of those drives and motivations, however? Not so easy. You can't fulfill Hero Crafter by taking a drive together to the mall, or Story Weaver by picking out a pair of pants at said mall, or Tactician by grabbing a bite to eat once you're done shopping. So scratching that "Humanism" itch just isn't a big concern when, after that trip to the mall, you drive to Local Game Store and sit down for Elf Games.

Or, at least, that's my explanation.

[KorvinStarmast]

The video is actually lumping games into the different categories instead of players or GMs.

It's like they are making the same mistake GNS did...

[Easy e]

It's like they are making the same mistake GNS did...

**** Swings arms around wildly like a muppet while running in a circle and screaming!****


To be fair, I think the way they are used in the video is not great, but the 7 ideas were semi-compelling to me for simple terms.

[Catullus64]

I will also say that the video's framing of these in terms of game systems did not enthuse me, but it's a solid conceptual framework for talking about TTRPG fun.

I would describe myself as Genre Head first, Problem Solver second, and Tactician third, though to be honest I feel that Problem Solver and Tactician are really just the same desire expressed in different spheres, so the real third would be Wanderlust.

There's another player in my current group (with whom I am overall quite satisfied as a player) who seems to be very much a Story-Weaver, and it often causes interesting philosophical conflict. This person tends to view our adventures as a series of scenes that we are all consciously building together into a story, closer to improvisational theater. I view it as characters in an imagined world, and story as an emergent phenomenon from the interaction of those elements, which is how I tend to write stories.

[Cluedrew]

This strikes me as a slightly refocused version of the 8 aesthetics. I think you can apply these to system in the same way you would apply them to a player, which is to say it is about ratios and relative focus and describing it as picking one of these options is probably a drastic oversimplification. In fact, I think the video itself kind of hints at this when it says some of its examples look like its examples in another group. Those systems probably actually have overlap in the "joys" they are targeting.

Potentially? Let’s look at the necessary reflections and inversions behind the screen
[...]
3. Wanderlust - Like to explore the world

The GM doesn’t explore the world, they build it.

No, I think there is actually a fair reflection here. The GM might build the world, but I think that is a related feeling to creating it. And if they are an improvisational sort of GM (or even not an exhaustive planner), they might be "discovering" bits of the setting as the group goes along as well.

[Psyren]

I think they all apply but if I had to pick 3... Tactician, Problem-Solver, and then I can't really decide between Genre Head and Hero Crafter.

I also consider myself a Humanist - but I don't mind sitting down with total strangers and befriending them through play.

To crush the players, see the driven before me, and hear the lamentations of the women.

That is good! best in life

Fixed that for you