What Are You Playing 10: Ten Builds, Zero Progress

[LibraryOgre]

In honor of my attempt to find something I like in Pillars of Eternity, I choose this title.

I tried. I restarted several times, but... I just couldn't figure out what I wanted to do. Strangely, PoE really tries to orient you within the world, but it's a world I don't know, so they're saying "Pick to be from a place!" and all I have to go on is a blurb and a stat mod. So I want to restart, and am not 100% clear on mechanics, do I'm flailing again and again through the intro. I get to the first town and go "dur"

[Errorname]

Strangely, PoE really tries to orient you within the world, but it's a world I don't know, so they're saying "Pick to be from a place!" and all I have to go on is a blurb and a stat mod.

I am quite sympathetic to them, because it's hard to establish a brand new fantasy world and it's not like they had a huge budget, but I do think the Pillars intro is pretty rough. I think choosing a home nationality in particular was needlessly confusing, and I don't remember that choice ever feeling particularly meaningful.

[warty goblin]

The paralysis that comes from building a character from a giant list of options, combined with the lack of context for the choices and the bit where I'm stuck with them for the next 100 odd hours is one of my absolute least favorite parts of the traditional RPG experience. How am I supposed to know if I want to play a character when I have no idea how that character plays? For class based games in particular the choice is really important, and even if I go in with an idea like "sword dude" there's probably like 5 or 10 different versions of that I have to sort through. Or I have a more specific idea and it's either flat out impossible or I have to play for like 15 hours before I can actually do the basic idea I want to do.

(Let's not even comment on the fun time that is "sword dude but with some magic," a concept that, thanks to the long tail of D&D is nearly always either weirdly flavored, comes with stealth problems unless built exactly right, or is otherwise bizarrely byzantine for an archetype that probably describes like 80%of fantasy novel protagonists. )

Here I much prefer the Age of Wonders 4 approach. I can go in with a basic idea like "cool fire sorceress," build that by choosing the obvious things, and end up with a fire sorceress. The game then lasts about 15 hours, so even if fire sorceress isn't the best thing ever I'm not stuck with it for 150 hours.

I'm also going to plug Spellforce 3, which lets you mess around a bit with a full party before building your character, and then boils that down to exactly three choices of skill trees and a couple attribute points, along with a healthy number of preset classes. You can actually discover how you want to play by playing. Radical!

[Triaxx]

Thread title feels like my life story in games that do more than give me a premade character. Yes, thanks, I'll spend several hours preplanning out a character only to play it and find out it doesn't work because an expected interaction is broken.

Also I've picked up Hades after having watched others play, and Gloves with Aphrodite is nuts.

[Cygnia]

A Tower Full of Cats dropped last night so I binged through it :)

[Anonymouswizard]

The inability to wear my lens is causing issues with text heavy games, basically reading is possible but I very quickly start skimming. So back to BG3, starting yet again because I've changed my mod setup.

True to the thread's title I started the prologue three times before settling on a Halfling Bard as Durge. I would have done Ranger, but this way I get actual social skills and Expertise in them.

[Zevox]

The paralysis that comes from building a character from a giant list of options, combined with the lack of context for the choices and the bit where I'm stuck with them for the next 100 odd hours is one of my absolute least favorite parts of the traditional RPG experience. How am I supposed to know if I want to play a character when I have no idea how that character plays? For class based games in particular the choice is really important, and even if I go in with an idea like "sword dude" there's probably like 5 or 10 different versions of that I have to sort through. Or I have a more specific idea and it's either flat out impossible or I have to play for like 15 hours before I can actually do the basic idea I want to do.

(Let's not even comment on the fun time that is "sword dude but with some magic," a concept that, thanks to the long tail of D&D is nearly always either weirdly flavored, comes with stealth problems unless built exactly right, or is otherwise bizarrely byzantine for an archetype that probably describes like 80%of fantasy novel protagonists. )

Here I much prefer the Age of Wonders 4 approach. I can go in with a basic idea like "cool fire sorceress," build that by choosing the obvious things, and end up with a fire sorceress. The game then lasts about 15 hours, so even if fire sorceress isn't the best thing ever I'm not stuck with it for 150 hours.

Funny enough, I find my experience is the opposite. In a class-based RPG, I'll just pick the class I want to play (usually the mage the first time around), maybe the very basic alignment I'm aiming for (generally good the first time, evil the second, whatever afterward), and go. While in Age of Wonders 4, I get way more decision paralysis - I feel like I want an idea for both the civilization I'm making and the leader, as well as what magic types I'm going to be focusing on, and what kind of win condition I intend to aim for (or at least whether it'll be violently or non-violently), and putting those pieces together in a satisfying way freezes me up much more than making any character in something like BG3 or Dragon Age.

[Errorname]

The paralysis that comes from building a character from a giant list of options, combined with the lack of context for the choices and the bit where I'm stuck with them for the next 100 odd hours is one of my absolute least favorite parts of the traditional RPG experience. How am I supposed to know if I want to play a character when I have no idea how that character plays? For class based games in particular the choice is really important, and even if I go in with an idea like "sword dude" there's probably like 5 or 10 different versions of that I have to sort through. Or I have a more specific idea and it's either flat out impossible or I have to play for like 15 hours before I can actually do the basic idea I want to do.

Something I really liked about Tyranny was how they sort of gamified the process of building out your character's backstory. You get one instance of 'pick an origin from a list' but the rest is done in a Choose your own adventure style narrative minigame that also establishes a bunch of important stuff for the game going forward.

Honestly of Obsidian's attempts to start new CRPG franchises Tyranny was easily the best at introducing the setting to new players, which makes it kind of funny that it's the only one that hasn't gotten a sequel.

[Rodin]

Im wrangling with a hard problem like this with the Heroquest remake/re-release. I’m Zargon, and once my group has finished the base set I want to offer them a different playing experience via the different classes. The problem is all the classes come with different expansions, and each expansion has pros and cons.

Prophecy of Telor has one of the more interesting quest lines…but the Warlock class it comes with is one of the weakest in design. Same problem with the Druid and Against the Ogre Horde, with the added concern that AtOH has some really cool minifigs that I want. Rise of the Dread Moon has a great class, but the story is weak and would need heavy reworking. The Barbarian and Elf expansions have a ton of great content, but focus on existing characters and also start with solo quests which don’t work for family game night.

The option paralysis is massive since each expansion is £30 or more, so I have to be cautious with how I choose the best combination that gives me the most DM options while also making my players happy.

Fortunately that decision is probably 6 months or more down the road, so I’ve got time.

[GloatingSwine]

In honor of my attempt to find something I like in Pillars of Eternity, I choose this title.

I tried. I restarted several times, but... I just couldn't figure out what I wanted to do. Strangely, PoE really tries to orient you within the world, but it's a world I don't know, so they're saying "Pick to be from a place!" and all I have to go on is a blurb and a stat mod.

Pick the blurb that most appeals to you, you can go back a step and reassign your stats around the mod if it's wrong (This is mildly annoying).

TBH the origins for PoE1 are pretty much all just "not from here" so that the game can explain who and what the Dyrwood's deal is as if you're an outsider.

The mechanics have a lot of fiddly stuff going on under the hood that you don't really need to worry about unless you play on the higher difficulties, just be aware that there are no dump stats and buffs and debuffs are really good. Then go into the pause options in the menu and turn on Auto-Slow for combat because slow mode makes combat a hell of a lot more readable (PoE1 likes to have largish enemy groups).

[Cespenar]

Even with mechanics aside, you look at Tyranny's setting and then at PoE's... and just, why? How would that setting reel anyone in?

[Wookieetank]

Even with mechanics aside, you look at Tyranny's setting and then at PoE's... and just, why? How would that setting reel anyone in?

Probably because it was heavily advertised as (yet another) spiritual successor to Planescape: Torment. I know that's why I picked it up, but have since stalled out a few hours in. It has some interesting ideas going on, but then puts you in a Baldur's gate sized world, when Planescapelikes(TM) work best in a more concise form (Disco Elysium, and Torment Tides of Numeria for example). Hopefully I'll get back to it, cause running around as a ranger with a deer tank was amusing.

[GloatingSwine]

PoE was intentionally a spiritual sequel to Baldur's Gate, not Torment.

That's why it's a vaguely European fantasy world with all the expected fantasy races and D&D classes except the orcs are fish this time.

That's what they pitched as a Kickstarter because that's what the RPG players of the day were telling them they missed having. An old school fantasy RPG like Baldur's Gate with lots of writing that the kids these days can't handle because they're all used to dialogue wheels where all they choose is "yes, sarcastic yes, or later".

So that's what they delivered.

[Anonymouswizard]

That's what they pitched as a Kickstarter because that's what the RPG players of the day were telling them they missed having. An old school fantasy RPG like Baldur's Gate with lots of writing that the kids these days can't handle because they're all used to dialogue wheels where all they choose is "yes, sarcastic yes, or later".

So that's what they delivered.

IIRC it was also pitched in a sort of CRPG lull before Larian took Divinity in the same basic direction.

But yes, Pillars has pretty much struck me as the 'make what people want' setting while Tyranny was the setting someone actually wanted to make. I hope that Obsidian goes back to that style of game at some point, hopefully with a leaner project.

[Wookieetank]

PoE was intentionally a spiritual sequel to Baldur's Gate, not Torment.

That's why it's a vaguely European fantasy world with all the expected fantasy races and D&D classes except the orcs are fish this time.

That's what they pitched as a Kickstarter because that's what the RPG players of the day were telling them they missed having. An old school fantasy RPG like Baldur's Gate with lots of writing that the kids these days can't handle because they're all used to dialogue wheels where all they choose is "yes, sarcastic yes, or later".

So that's what they delivered.

Huh, well that explains that then.

[Errorname]

Even with mechanics aside, you look at Tyranny's setting and then at PoE's... and just, why? How would that setting reel anyone in?

Pillars has the classic Dragon Age problem of being a setting designed by a studio that is no longer willing to license D&D but still wants to make D&D games. It's not even really a bad setting by that metric, I appreciate that they lean into the early Modern-ness of the stock D&D setting, but it's frustrating because it feels like a lot of stuff is here because that's what D&D style settings are like and not because the writers had any passion for it.

Like Sawyer is on record saying he wouldn't have included Elves and Dwarves if he didn't feel like players expected them, and you can really tell.

[Ionathus]

I've picked up Balatro. It's an absolute blast. The visuals are bright and satisfying, the "number go up" feeling is immensely gratifying, and the ratio of strategy-to-luck that a lot of deckbuilders seem to struggle with feels quite fine-tuned so far. The side missions and achievements will be keeping me playing for a long time, I think.

Also, fittingly, the thread title fits for my Balatro experience thus far as well Still figuring out how the mechanics work and I have made some bold, bad choices on plenty of runs!

The paralysis that comes from building a character from a giant list of options, combined with the lack of context for the choices and the bit where I'm stuck with them for the next 100 odd hours is one of my absolute least favorite parts of the traditional RPG experience. How am I supposed to know if I want to play a character when I have no idea how that character plays? For class based games in particular the choice is really important, and even if I go in with an idea like "sword dude" there's probably like 5 or 10 different versions of that I have to sort through. Or I have a more specific idea and it's either flat out impossible or I have to play for like 15 hours before I can actually do the basic idea I want to do.

I wish more games did the Fallout 3 thing, where character creation is a series of in-the-moment choices that you make, and they all flow pretty easily and naturally. You don't have to fine-tune your whole build: you just have to figure out whether you like shooting guns or swingin' swords (hint: look at the world you're in. It's gonna be guns). The execution was a little fiddly, and it's pretty annoying for repeat playthroughs once you've grasped the mechanics and just want to get into the action, but the idea is really sound and it really helps counteract that analysis paralysis thing.

I'd love more RPGs that take a "one decision at a time" approach to character creation.

Also I've picked up Hades after having watched others play, and Gloves with Aphrodite is nuts.

Hades is hands-down one of the best gaming experiences I've ever had. It's so smooth, and satisfying, the gameplay and the graphics work perfectly together, and even the storytelling is seamless. A++ game all around.

[IthilanorStPete]

You don't have to fine-tune your whole build: you just have to figure out whether you like shooting guns or swingin' swords (hint: look at the world you're in. It's gonna be guns).

Amusingly, in (unmodded) New Vegas, swinging swords (or your fists) is probably the way to go.

[Zevox]

Finished my second re-run of Metal Gear Rising. Very Hard difficulty is aptly named, Armstrong in particular took me a fair few tries to get past. Very satisfying experience though. Love that game.

Decided to do a little more with my PS3 before it goes back into storage, so I also replayed DuckTales Remastered, the 2013 Wayforward remake of the Capcom classic. A game who's existence would be justified by bringing us the Moon Theme alone, but which is fortunately also just a damn good platformer. Plus Remastered includes the story being fully voice acted by the original voices of the characters from the show, so that just makes it extra delightful. Very short, I beat it in one sitting, but lots of fun to revisit.

[GloatingSwine]

Amusingly, in (unmodded) New Vegas, swinging swords (or your fists) is probably the way to go.

Until you try it on a Cazador anyway.

[137beth]

A Tower Full of Cats dropped last night so I binged through it :)

Thanks for the recommendation: I'm adding that one to my wishlist.

[Triaxx]

Until you try it on a Cazador anyway.

Bladed Gauntlet says hello.

[Wookieetank]

The execution was a little fiddly, and it's pretty annoying for repeat playthroughs once you've grasped the mechanics and just want to get into the action, but the idea is really sound and it really helps counteract that analysis paralysis thing.

With the option of re-doing your entire character as you leave vault 101, I just made a save right before that point and used that for my alternate builds so I could skip the tutorial bits.

Been poking at Stardew Valley inbetween sessions of roaming Filgaia (Wild Arms 2). For having owned the game for some years now, I've yet to make it past the first year, between trying out the alternate farms, multiplayer games that fizzle out, and the like. Currently in late fall on the forest farm. Been going a bit crop heavy, 10 of each and whatever wild seeds I have, which has been eating up my energy just watering things. Really hoping once winter hits I can spend some quality time in the mine stocking up on ore so I'll be able to have more than 3 sprinklers once spring rolls around. Also need to get around to getting a horse so I can more quickly galavant about when foraging once I'm done watering all my plants.

[LibraryOgre]

Tyranny? What is "Tyranny"?

However, in furthering the "Ten Builds, Zero Progress" theme, I restarted Kingmaker, again. Still avoiding BG3. I did enjoy my Grenadier, mechanically, in a lot of ways, but I also felt way too constrained in others. I'm gonna miss those bombs, I know, and Jubliost just isn't the same.

But every time I fiddle with character creation with a Pathfinder game, I'm glad I'm not playing it tabletop. I can see so many archetypes are "You are playing a bard, but we've bolted some rogue onto it in exchange for a little less bard" that I wish they'd just make a classless system already.

[IthilanorStPete]

I'm at "Four Builds, Some Progress" in Mechanicus. I'm about a third of the way through, judging by the Necron Awakening meter. It continues to be interesting, though it seems to be getting fairly easy; I'm not having much trouble with regular missions. I might try one of the boss fights I have available, since those are the only missions with Hard difficulty available right now, and there's not much of a penalty if I fail.

[Triaxx]

Tyranny is... What if the villains had already won... And then the evil apprentice dropped the ball in hilariously epic fashion joined the resistance and totally screwed the whole thing up.

[Batcathat]

I've never really heard much about Tyranny beyond the name, but this discussion made me look into it a little and it does sound like something I'd enjoy, so I might have to check it out.

[Anonymouswizard]

Been poking at Stardew Valley inbetween sessions of roaming Filgaia (Wild Arms 2). For having owned the game for some years now, I've yet to make it past the first year, between trying out the alternate farms, multiplayer games that fizzle out, and the like. Currently in late fall on the forest farm. Been going a bit crop heavy, 10 of each and whatever wild seeds I have, which has been eating up my energy just watering things. Really hoping once winter hits I can spend some quality time in the mine stocking up on ore so I'll be able to have more than 3 sprinklers once spring rolls around. Also need to get around to getting a horse so I can more quickly galavant about when foraging once I'm done watering all my plants.

I can never make too much money in the first couple of seasons, because I generally want a whole ton of sprinklers by Fall so I can concentrate on doing other stuff. This game I managed to get like 13 set up by the beginning of autumn and then cleared the mine within a week.

It means that my acquisition of animals tends to fall behind, I'm still only on chickens, but once my autumn crops come in I'll start seeing decent money. Especially as I've finally unlocked kegs, now I just need to harvest as much oak resin as I can.

Tyranny? What is "Tyranny"?

[Glare Silently]

Loosely it's a CRPG where the evil routes got the primary focus. You're a servant of the evil overlord, you rebel, and most of the game is establishing why.

You also do a lot of glaring, usually silently.

[Cygnia]

I attempted another cat-themed game: Cat Meoir: Feline Detective 'cause it's free and I liked the premise. Unfortunately, I say "attempted" because it gave me motion sickness due to low FPS and janky controls.

[Wookieetank]

I can never make too much money in the first couple of seasons, because I generally want a whole ton of sprinklers by Fall so I can concentrate on doing other stuff. This game I managed to get like 13 set up by the beginning of autumn and then cleared the mine within a week.

It means that my acquisition of animals tends to fall behind, I'm still only on chickens, but once my autumn crops come in I'll start seeing decent money. Especially as I've finally unlocked kegs, now I just need to harvest as much oak resin as I can.

Animal wise I've had chickens and ducks since midsummer, but just got cows yesterday. Really should look into a shed, starting to get a crowded yard of cheese presses and mayonnaise makers and pickling jars and....

Crop wise mid-fall on is quite nice, been making 5-6k min every day now that things are producing. Also have a decent set of crabpots setup for an additional 500+ a day, and just started making recyclers for the junk from those (so far a whole buncha torches).