Character Equations

[KillerQueen]

KillerQueen:
How is Redcloak at all like mouth of Sauron?
They've go completely different personalities....

True, their personalities are, for the most part, different. However, like the Mouth of Sauron, Redcloak, though capable in his own right, serves a much more powerful sorcerer, and for whatever reason (Redcloak's being that his master is incompetent, MoS's being that his master is an eyeball and a vaguely-defined, but chances are incorporeal form) they are both the only main go-between for their masters and the armies that follow them. Both masters even have elite members that follow their orders without the help of their underlings (Sauron's ringwraiths and Xykon's undead).

In other words, though different personalities, they both perform much the same role.

[Starscream]

@ Starscream: I got a good chuckle out of your list. I only didn't recognize the middle picture for the MitD, but the other two were spot on.

It's Sloth from the classic (to anyone who grew up during the 80s) film The Goonies.

He's a big, strong, not too bright guy who the characters think is a terrifying monster, but who is revealed as a nice guy when he befriends a protagonist who has been captured by the real bad guys.

So yeah, the comparison is appropriate enough.

Edit:
Yeah, I had the whole "badass who kills undead" thing in mind when picking Ash for Durkon. I forgot about him killing an evil tree, but now that you guys pointed it out, I feel even better about that choice.

[Dixieboy]

KillerQueen:
How is Redcloak at all like mouth of Sauron?
They've go completely different personalities....

But they serve a quite similar role.

[Katana_Geldar]

Redcloak is actually a little like Vader, being that he is with someone who is willing to work with him despite what he has done.

[Dixieboy]

Wasn't vader the one who committed those atrocities most of the time?

[Katana_Geldar]

Wasn't vader the one who committed those atrocities most of the time?

Yes, but the very first one was a real "What have I done?"

[KillerQueen]

Redcloak is actually a little like Vader, being that he is with someone who is willing to work with him despite what he has done.

I'm afraid I don't quite see it

[Katana_Geldar]

I thought of it when I was re-reading SoD, the bit when Xykon is talking to Redcloak after...

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Redcloak has murdered his brother

[Dixieboy]

Yes, but the very first one was a real "What have I done?"

That would be the sand people genocide, right? (Attempted)

He didn't seem to regret it too much, and neither did he with the killing of the younglings.

Though I can definitely see what you mean now.

[Setra]

Ooh, lemme try one!

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++=Celia

[Dusk Eclipse]

@ Setra: I understand tinkerbell and Jim carrey in that movie (forgot what's the character's name) but you lost me at pikachu-

[Zevox]

But they serve a quite similar role.

No, actually, they don't. Redcloak serves Xykon because it serves his own purposes, and acts as Xykon's Lieutenant and, when it comes to anything with details, brains. The Mouth was Sauron's lieutenant, true, but more served more as a representative and herald for his master than in anything like Redcloak's more independent, near-equal role with Xykon in their plans.

I also don't see how, in the OP, Redcloak is anything like Starscream. The only connection that I can draw is the possibility of Redcloak betraying Xykon in the future, but that's a mere possibility, and even if it happens, Redcloak's circumstances for such a betrayal are in no way comparable to Starscream's ambitious desire to lead the Decepticons and constant insubordination, betrayals, and usurpation attempts.

I'd also say comparing Xykon to Sauron is being a bit too generous to Xykon. Sauron was a better schemer and manipulator than he was a warrior. Xykon, kind of the reverse - he can blow things to pieces, but rarely displays any real capacity for subtlety. The only thing they have in common is the most generic sense of the "evil overlord" theme, and Skeletor kinda covers that.

I don't recognize the majority of the other images in the OP, but those I do I'm fine with, except maybe Captain America and Durkon, but hey, I guess they are both bland.

Zevox

[Dark_Stryke]

@ Setra: I understand tinkerbell and Jim carrey in that movie (forgot what's the character's name) but you lost me at pikachu-

Shoots Lightning. Still a bit of a stretch, though.

[KillerQueen]

I thought of it when I was re-reading SoD, the bit when Xykon is talking to Redcloak after...

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Redcloak has murdered his brother

Hmm...I guess I can see it, but

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Anakin against his victims not only at his master's direct command, but also with a ferocious amount of rage. Redcloak never had any rage for his brother when he took him out, insofar as I could tell, plus, Redcloak was manipulated in a much more indirect way (unless you believe as I do that the crimson mantle has some degree of mind control) by his master.

[KillerQueen]

No, actually, they don't. Redcloak serves Xykon because it serves his own purposes, and acts as Xykon's Lieutenant and, when it comes to anything with details, brains. The Mouth was Sauron's lieutenant, true, but more served more as a representative and herald for his master than in anything like Redcloak's more independent, near-equal role with Xykon in their plans.

I also don't see how, in the OP, Redcloak is anything like Starscream. The only connection that I can draw is the possibility of Redcloak betraying Xykon in the future, but that's a mere possibility, and even if it happens, Redcloak's circumstances for such a betrayal are in no way comparable to Starscream's ambitious desire to lead the Decepticons and constant insubordination, betrayals, and usurpation attempts.

I'd also say comparing Xykon to Sauron is being a bit too generous to Xykon. Sauron was a better schemer and manipulator than he was a warrior. Xykon, kind of the reverse - he can blow things to pieces, but rarely displays any real capacity for subtlety. The only thing they have in common is the most generic sense of the "evil overlord" theme, and Skeletor kinda covers that.

I don't recognize the majority of the other images in the OP, but those I do I'm fine with, except maybe Captain America and Durkon, but hey, I guess they are both bland.

Zevox

I agree that the attitude and motivations of the Mouth and Redcloak are different, but I still feel they fill a similar role.
As for Xykon being likened to Sauron, I see that as more reflecting their dependence on an object of great power (Xykon's phylactery(sp?) and Sauron's One Ring).

[Zevox]

I agree that the attitude and motivations of the Mouth and Redcloak are different, but I still feel they fill a similar role.

I disagree. As I said, Redcloak is far more independent and a near equal of Xykon in their relationship, only below him because Xykon is more powerful than he is. Whereas the Mouth was merely a herald and representative for Sauron, a man corrupted by and devoted to his master.

What's more, from a storytelling perspective, their roles are nothing alike. Redcloak is a major character, one of the main villains of his story, where the Mouth was a bit character with a miniscule role in his.

As for Xykon being likened to Sauron, I see that as more reflecting their dependence on an object of great power (Xykon's phylactery(sp?) and Sauron's One Ring).

But Xykon's phylactery is not an object of great power, it's just a receptacle for his soul should his body be destroyed. It's a mere safety net, a way for him to survive destruction should it come to that. He's not in any way dependent on it, no matter how much he may loath the idea of being without it now that he's accustomed to having it.

And Sauron did not even have the Ring for most of his existence - he didn't forge it until midway through the Second Age. Nor was he totally dependent on it, as displayed by how close he came to conquering Middle Earth in The Lord of the Rings even without it. Had the Hobbits failed to destroy it, whether or not Sauron himself retrieved it, he would have won.

Zevox

[Katana_Geldar]

That would be the sand people genocide, right? (Attempted)

He didn't seem to regret it too much, and neither did he with the killing of the younglings.

Though I can definitely see what you mean now.

No, it was when he killed Mace Windu and then later when he killed Padme.

[Tavar]

And that's just in terms of the other Order of the Stick Characters. Have fun isolating for

Okay, I'm game.


R=e^10^{(V-N)/[(H*E)/(D*?*∞)]}^W-(10^B)
R=Roy
V=V
N=Nuke
H=Haley
E=Elan
D=Durkon
W=Wizard Hat
B=Belkar

Anyone want to check my math?

[DarkElfGangsta]

Roy= Future Trunks(DBZ - daddy issues!) + Will smith + White Mage (8bt)
V= Light Hikari (DN) + L Lawliet (DN) + Drizzt + Kaelthas
Durkon= Shlomo-Chan + Uther Lightbringer + Bruenor
Elan= Mika + Fighter (8BT) + Zatch Bell
Haley= Beyonce + Misty + Sakura Haruno
Belkar= Alukard(hellsing) + Black Mage (8BT) + Suasan Boyle

O-chul = Kratos + Chuck Noriss + Rambo + Big Daddy

[Zevox]

Here's one for V:

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+ =

Rationale:
- Naoto: Androgyny, intelligence, pragmatism.
- Morrigan: Powerful magic user, pride, questionable morality, disdain for wasting time (pre-Soul splice trait - think of V's complaint about their stop to help the dirt farmers, compare to Morrigan complaining about the hero in her game stopping to help every poor sap he/she meets).

Hm, I really wanted to have a third, preferably for the more redeeming qualities V has been showing lately, or maybe for the angry, violent responses she sometimes has; but I'm drawing a blank. I guess you could say Naoto could also represent V's more redeeming qualities, but those kinds of things weren't exactly among the largest parts of her character.

Zevox

[Poil]

So now we're just waiting for V to show up in Roy's room with an interesting proposal on how to survive the final clash with Xykon?

[Thanatosia]

I dunno how much I agree with the others, but I think the OP's redcloak formula is almost spot on perfect, but i'd drop the Starscream. Ozy + Kif is very close to summing him up on their own.

[Samurai Jill]

Prove that your interpretations of the OOTS cast are vastly superior to my own! Don't disappoint me!

The ones I understood I rather liked.

[Samurai Jill]

Let's see...

Lady Eboshi's not bad, but I tend to think of the Operative as Miko's evil opposite. He's a charming, charismatic, sympathetic and considerate character with a keen understanding of human nature- and his own flaws- who does everything he can to make those around him feel as good about themselves as possible. And, also, Evil.

[Jagos]

Maybe the other two personalities dominate his share?

[Hypnobono]

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+ + =

[Moff Chumley]

M'kay...

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++=Shojo

I think it works.

[averagejoe]

Lady Eboshi's not bad, but I tend to think of the Operative as Miko's evil opposite. He's a charming, charismatic, sympathetic and considerate character with a keen understanding of human nature- and his own flaws- who does everything he can to make those around him feel as good about themselves as possible. And, also, Evil.

That's not a bad point. I was waffling between him and Leonardo (the Ninja Turtle, for the honor, the dual swords, and the blue), but neither were choices I really liked a lot, so I just picked one. I mainly thought of the operative because he was a guy sent to distant lands by his master in order to accomplish things, and worked mostly alone, plus the whole honor/fanaticism thing. Eboshi/Dredd were more the personality bits.

@ Chumley: that totally works!

[Dixieboy]

No, it was when he killed Mace Windu and then later when he killed Padme.

... but... he didn't kill padme

[Nimrod's Son]

... but... he didn't kill padme

If George Lucas had any balls, he would have done.