BleachITP OOC XIX: Arrancars and Humans and Arcs, Oh My!

[Frozen_Feet]

People might have had second thought after realizing the thing has larger range of destruction than small-scale nuclear weapons. 13 kilometres is fairly ridiculous radius.

[Moon Wolf]

Gin=ridiculous. Gin's bankai=defying the laws of natural physicality in every possible way. And looking awesome while doing it.

[strawberryman]

Regarding the latest chapter:

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His bankai sounds even more boring to me. We already knew his lengthening/shooting ability was really good. Now we're just being told he can spam it. Big deal. It's not that great. It's just a high speed projectile attack with a few extra variables. He can still be meleed largely as usual. Ichigo's projectile could be said to be just as good because he can add so much more force to any of his swings by adding it directly to them while also being able to fire it as normal. Instead of giving Gin more powers we're only being told he can spam the one he has already demonstrated.

My, someone is sure hard to impress.

[nothingclever]

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Well the way I see it Ichigo is just as nasty. If Ichigo fights Gin at close range and gets pierced by his sword it's not that big a deal because he could be cutting him in half with a sword swing combined with a Getsuga Tensho at the same time. Ichigo says in the latest chapter that if Gin manages to point his sword tip at him at close range he's toast but we already knew that ever since he first used the ability. The author makes it seem like this is something new to us. We also know Ichigo can dodge the shot if there's some space between them. If hit Ichigo will initially only have a wound as wide as Gin's sword until Gin moves it around while it's inside him. If Ichigo hits Gin with an energy charged attack he'll do more immediate damage. Gin can hit him with the force of a sword swing without actually swinging which gives him another method of attacking. Ichigo doesn't really get any extra methods of attacking from his sword because I doubt his projectile will ever hit Gin from far away but he can use it to increase the potency of the attacks he can already make. He could create an opportunity he wouldn't normally have if his Getsuga hits hard enough to momentarily break Gin's guard. Ichigo has to worry about a hard to dodge attack but Gin has to worry about his grip/stance buckling and his sword being pushed aside. So Gin is hard to dodge while Ichigo is hard to block.

[OverWilliam]

I'm just frustrated that Ichigo continually refuses to use his Bankai. He releases it, sure, in fact I think he's been standing around in his Bankai for the last 12 chapters or so, but he refuses to actually USE it. What does Ichigo's Bankai do? It makes him fast. Really, Really, Really, Really fast. When was the last time you remember Ichigo moving Really, Really, Really, Really fast? Or even just Really fast for that matter?

[nothingclever]

And when was the last time you saw him spam Getsuga Tensho? I don't know how fast it recharges but it appears to only be ready when it is theatrically appropriate. To clarify about the speed part, I'd like to see him create after images again. Even if characters say "My senses are so good I automatically know which one is you every time" I wouldn't mind because then we'd know why he doesn't use that ability. Or maybe it could be explained that Ichigo is currently moving really really really fast compared to his non bankai speed but is only as fast as everyone else(meaning all the uber strong people) while using it. It might be implied but I'd like to see a line or two of exposition. Maybe his after images aren't actually made the same way that one arrancar made his using a specific sonido technique and only appear to people with lesser senses but again I'd like to see an explanation. Chad should suddenly appear and be drawn like Krillin from Dragonball Z and begin a mental dialogue explaining Ichigo's powers while crying about how he'll never be even half as cool as him.

[OverWilliam]

That's the whole point-- they're all him. Good luck attacking fast enough to catch even one.

[KnightDisciple]

I think he has been using his speed, at least in the last couple of fights before this one.

Grimmjow and DeadpanClown? I'd wager they both kept up with him quite a lot (Grimkitty seemed built for speed more than anything), meaning that Ichigo's speed merely puts him on the same level.

And the fact that he's dodging something moving 170,145 meters per second says to me he's still got his speed, and is using it. Honestly, I'm surprised he's not been hurt worse than he already has.

Nothing Clever: Think about it this way. Ichigo has, so far, dodged Gin's attacks. How long can he keep doing that? Gin's bankai obviously isn't draining on him. He barely has to move his hand to wreak havoc. If he's able to cycle the extend/retract very quickly at all, he's got the equivalent of a rapid fire railgun on sniper mode. Yeah, yeah, "shonen anime" and all. It's still nothing to dismiss.

[nothingclever]

Sure, but Ichigo can instantly close the gap between them to make that railgun less useful unless we start seeing Gin running backwards in the air at the same speed Ichigo is approaching him while firing it.

[OverWilliam]

I thought it was very clever that he can retract the blade just as quickly as he can extend it, which completely eliminates the possibility of an opponent using the length against him. Ichigo gets past the blade's bite and moves in for an attack? No sweat, resize the blade as a free action. It makes for an extremely power offensive weapon with no defensive drawback.

Grimmjow and DeadpanClown? I'd wager they both kept up with him quite a lot (Grimkitty seemed built for speed more than anything), meaning that Ichigo's speed merely puts him on the same level.

Yeah, I've heard that explanation once or twice before, but until I hear it from Word of God I remain skeptical. I mean, it's his whole Bankai ability. It feels like he's being cheated if the best he can do is keep up with all of that specialization, while enemies have all these neat other abilities on top of that level of speed.

[MageSparrowhawk]

Didn't hollow-Ichigo mention something about the speed straining his body? "bones creaking" or something like that? He can use that crazy-awesome level of speed, but he hurts himself while he does so...

[Frozen_Feet]

Yes, in the Byakua fight it was mentioned Ichigo's body couldn't take it. Byakua remarked he was getting slower because of it. It hasn't been referred to after that, so we don't know if it still applies.

[MageSparrowhawk]

Then again he hasn't used afterimage-level speed since then, so it could very well apply...

Which, of course, makes me even more interested in what could potentially happen when he actually achieves resurrection, and his body can take that speed.

[KnightDisciple]

The thing is, if he hasn't been using the full extent of his speed....

That means it's either so dangerous he's unconsciously locked it away, making it only usable in that weird hollow form that has regen (apparently).

Or he's being fantastically stupid and not using his greatest advantage.

The first, I could maybe accept. The second...as frustrating as some things about this manga have been, I really don't want to think that's what he's doing (being stupid).

Besides; He and Grimmjow actually seemed like a fairly even match; Grimmkitty had the crazy claw blast finisher move, and Ichigo has Getsuga Tenshou. Otherwise, they're brawlers. *Shrugs*

MimeCar, on the other hand, was specifically meant to outmatch him. Or that's the impression I got. Ichigo was fighting desperately with that guy. If he had more speed to call up, why not use it?

[MageSparrowhawk]

Because the injury he'd be taking while using such speed would be more detrimental than beneficial? I mean, if continuous damage to his body is the price for that speed, it could very well not be worth it.

[OverWilliam]

I have seen a lot of attempted explanations around the interwebs for what's going on there, but not a single one of them rings with 'Ah: Tite Kubo meant for it to happen this way.'

Which means that no matter which way you cut it, it's bad writing.

If I had the ability to move so quickly the human eye caught glimpses of me in 20 different places at the same time and is incapable of even following the speed, you'd have trouble getting me to turn it off. Ichigo never uses it. Why.

There is no answer to this question, because the Author doesn't even know. Or care, apparently.

[KnightDisciple]

I have seen a lot of attempted explanations around the interwebs for what's going on there, but not a single one of them rings with 'Ah: Tite Kubo meant for it to happen this way.'

Which means that no matter which way you cut it, it's bad writing.

If I had the ability to move so quickly the human eye caught glimpses of me in 20 different places at the same time and is incapable of even following the speed, you'd have trouble getting me to turn it off. Ichigo never uses it. Why.

There is no answer to this question, because the Author doesn't even know. Or care, apparently.

Honestly, this is probably the closest to the truth. I'm just trying to give what I see to be the most reasonable of the poor answers.

@MSH: Continuous use cracks his bones. Using it once or twice in a fight to gain advantage surely would give a good return on advantage. He was slowing down, sure....after a fight that lasted a fair amount of time. Use it a few times for a split second, you won't even notice.

Also. I still think the "he has speed, but so does everyone else", while bad writing, is still the only explanation that doesn't just ignore something so major. *Shrugs*

[Prime32]

I have seen a lot of attempted explanations around the interwebs for what's going on there, but not a single one of them rings with 'Ah: Tite Kubo meant for it to happen this way.'

The one I go with is that his zanpakuto became weaker as Hollow Ichigo increased in strength. A lot of the power that used to be in his bankai is now in his hollow mask.

I'd say that bankai + mask Ichigo was only about as strong just before he went to Hueco Mundo as bankai Ichigo was while fighting Byakuya. His total power only increased significantly as he absorbed Hueco Mundo reishi and later when he unlocked his new mask and Resurreccion.

[Callos_DeTerran]

The one I go with is that his zanpakuto became weaker as Hollow Ichigo increased in strength. A lot of the power that used to be in his bankai is now in his hollow mask.

I'd say that bankai + mask Ichigo was only about as strong just before he went to Hueco Mundo as bankai Ichigo was while fighting Byakuya. His total power only increased significantly as he absorbed Hueco Mundo reishi and later when he unlocked his new mask and Resurreccion.

I wouldn't call it unlocking Resurreccion if he can't control it or even use it at will yet.

[Moon Wolf]

Someone ought to write dear old Tite Kubo with all of this!

It'd give me a LOL or two.

[OverWilliam]

Addressed to "Dear Old Tite Kubo", of course.

Hope he can read English.

[Prime32]

Well, he found out about Incarnate...

[OverWilliam]

Well, he found out about Incarnate...

Huh?

[Frozen_Feet]

Nick Simmons's cheap plagiarism attempt.

[Moon Wolf]

Addressed to "Dear Old Tite Kubo", of course.

Hope he can read English.

Well of couse it'll be to 'Dear Old Tite Kubo"!

It'll read: "So, Tite Kubo, dear old chap...we were having a discussion the other day and thought you'd like to get in on the action..."

And if he can't read English...perhaps Kasa-chan could translate it!

[nothingclever]

Well, he found out about Incarnate...

He's a pretty classy bro:

So, uh, from yesterday night until this morning, there've been an amazing number of messages from overseas fans along the lines of "There's a manga imitating BLEACH in America!" Well, I had a look at the site and I don't understand English that well, but I think what's written there is something like "It's a manga drawn by Gene Simmons' son, Nick Simmons."

To be honest, the fact that Gene Simmon's son is a manga-ka disturbs me more than whether he's really copying or not.

I like how Encyclopedia Dramatica jokingly pointed out that not even their memes were safe:

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[Moon Wolf]

Hey guys...I was searching aimlessly on Youtube yesterday night and came across a song that I think would be a great themesong for our shinigami vs. arrancar arc. Perhaps it's just because I'm into that kind of music, but I saw a Bleach fan opening with the same song, and man was it awesome.

Please listen and tell me what you think!

[Prime32]

Hey guys...I was searching aimlessly on Youtube yesterday night and came across a song that I think would be a great themesong for our shinigami vs. arrancar arc. Perhaps it's just because I'm into that kind of music, but I saw a Bleach fan opening with the same song, and man was it awesome.

Please listen and tell me what you think!

That song is making me picture things. Like a shot of Hazuki and Yori sliding past opposite sides of the screen divided by a sword which reflects Tsukiha's image before cutting away.

[Sucrose]

It's a cool song, but I dunno if its lyrics necessarily fit the arc (assuming, of course, that the translation is fairly accurate). Neither side has much in the way of sympathy for the other, and Colors of the Heart seems almost like a love song.

Maybe a more personalized song for the Yori/Tsukiha/Hollow-Hazuki story, or something? Given what Prime said, I'll agree that it seems to fit their dynamic a bit.

[Zarah]

Since when do lyrics have any relation to the show they're being used in? Bleach has many examples of songs that don't fit at all if you take the lyrics in context.