BleachITP Reborn: Discussion & Setup Thread 6

[Sucrose]

Why do you consider it needless and artificial? If Boo's goal is to make a dark and heavy-hearted character, it would be much more jarring if Michiko's past was all happiness and sunshine.

Having a troubled past is, very likely, fundamental to Michiko as a character. Why is, then, the scenario presented needless? Or, put another way: why would any other scenario be any better? If uneasy feelings between adopted siblings were switched to a dead little sister or man-slaughter of Michiko's family, would you be more approving? o_O


Whether or not Boo made his comment in good spirit, he does have a point. Your own reply also begs a question: could the offending plot element be implemented in manner that would not offend you? If so, what in Boo's delivery leaves a bad taste in your mouth?

This a bit like how Tacky said he could never perceive Akemi, the exile who can save souls from hell, in a sympathetic light. I simply can't see what in the backstory of Michiko is so contradictory that it breaks the character for you.


I don't think it's fair to judge from a list of notes, because I think the presented plot can be written so that the offending elements won't jump on your nose. Lets wait and see till he actually writes it out.

On the matter of my direct opinion of Boo's character, as per my word, I will make no comment at the present time. However, as for this argument in particular:

Point the First: For me at least, yes. Yes I would. Because, in the case of the specific argument presented, it is unlikely that the cause of such unhappy circumstances would be expected to be viewed in anything remotely resembling a positive light.

Similarly, for point the second, it would likely be written as a wholly negative point in the character's worldview, and we would not be expected to hold any sympathy for his arguments in that case.

For point the third, it is being written as a romance. That is, inherently, enough to shift the viewpoint to something far too positive for the act in question.

Aside from that, yes, you clearly do not understand what causes the horror that KD and I experience when the element in question is being brought up. Surely there are certain things that you could not possibly accept having to tolerate as part of a group storytelling experience. Things that are horrifically vile. Accept, for the moment, that this is how I, and, I believe, KD, view the matter of sibling incest, adopted or not.

[Draken]

It looks like the fail eyes. As if you were a ten year old with a pink cap staring at your weird-eared crazy teacher about to stamp a huge red F in your forehead.

[The Librarian]

You can haz fraccion?

You can haz cheezburger too.

[Draken]

Given F_F's post. How about changing it to this setup instead:

She entered the family not by being adopted, but as a future bride to say... Brother 2. Crap can hit the fan from there.

[riccaru]

CMOT, Higure needs a slight change. You have the length of his blade as 14'... Not 14". Not a big deal, but a 20' long wakazashi is...scary (sorry if this sounds rude, but I noticed it just now)

[CMOTDibbler]

CMOT, Higure needs a slight change. You have the length of his blade as 14'... Not 14". Not a big deal, but a 20' long wakazashi is...scary (sorry if this sounds rude, but I noticed it just now)

Right... I always get those, mixed up, thanks.

[Frozen_Feet]

It looks like the fail eyes. As if you were a ten year old with a pink cap staring at your weird-eared crazy teacher about to stamp a huge red F in your forehead.

Maybe I should change my screen name to Fail_Face.

F_F

[AmberVael]

You can haz fraccion?

I think there are people who need and want fraccion more than I do.
I'd advise working with them first.

[KnightDisciple]

Given F_F's post. How about changing it to this setup instead:

She entered the family not by being adopted, but as a future bride to say... Brother 2. Crap can hit the fan from there.

So, she's not adopted per se? She's "set aside", and being groomed for bridehood? Not considered a sibling in any sense of the word. She's intended for Brother 2, but falls for Brother 1? Cue secret training and making out?

That might be passable. It still gets the "forbidden romance" angle in, without going the (in my own view) unnecessary step of making them siblings (whatever the circumstances).

[CMOTDibbler]

I think there are people who need and want fraccion more than I do.
I'd advise working with them first.

Ok... Uh, well, who needs fraccion?

[The Librarian]

Yay! The first of my latest artwork is done. Here is my illustration of Misaki Ichimyouri below.

Warning! Kind of a big picture.

Spoiler

Show

Feel Free to comment, and ask me if you want your character drawn up.

Epic Repost! You know, for those who haven't seen it yet.

[riccaru]

Ok... Uh, well, who needs fraccion?

Better question: Who doesn't? Draken needs to decide in all finality the espada first, though.

[Draken]

Ok... Uh, well, who needs fraccion?

He looks like he would fit well with Genoveva, I think. I could also suggest Alejandro, Sabas and Pan.

Edit: I don't really have any competition to chose from. The names in the pool right now are likely the names that will be staying. And I gues... I will have Sereg and Arturo in septima and octava, respectively. This leaves Segunda and Decima open.

[riccaru]

He looks like he would fit well with Genoveva, I think. I could also suggest Alejandro, Sabas and Pan.

Edit: I don't really have any competition to chose from. The names in the pool right now are likely the names that will be staying. And I gues... I will have Sereg and Arturo in septima and octava, respectively. This leaves Segunda and Decima open.

Err... My character's name is Sereg Arturo... Is there another Arturo?

[Frozen_Feet]

Edit: I don't really have any competition to chose from. The names in the pool right now are likely the names that will be staying. And I gues... I will have Sereg and Arturo in septima and octava, respectively. This leaves Segunda and Decima open.

Wait... what?

Also, why horngeek's Espada candidate isn't in the registry.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Ok... Uh, well, who needs fraccion?

Hollow King's Warning: Being the fraccion of the Primera has been linked with sudden cases of such afflications as 'dead', 'imprisoned in nothingness', 'being subject to social experimentation', and 'having a not-nice boss'. If you contract any of these symptoms then you are advised to curl up into a little ball and start weeping. If you are still capable of such anyway.

Maybe people think I'm bringing this up too much, especially since I do want Genoveva to have fraccion, but I want people to know what they are getting into if they pick Genoveva as their Espada. She is not a nice person. She doesn't think of her fraccion as sons/daughters or as the family she always wanted (see past role-play, though with better role-playing). Genoveva sees fraccion, even hers, the same as every other Non-Espada and that is as 'potential prey'. She is a villain through and through.



...*cough*...That said, still looking for Fraccion. >.>

[Draken]

... It was supposed to say Edward instead of Sereg.

And riiight. Knew there was something missing. horngeek's Espada is not there yet and she is applying to the spot of Octava.

I guess this either Edward or Arturo will get moved to Segunda or Decima then.

[Callos_DeTerran]

... It was supposed to say Edward instead of Sereg.

And riiight. Knew there was something missing. horngeek's Espada is not there yet and she is applying to the spot of Octava.

I guess this either Edward or Arturo will get moved to Segunda or Decima then.

The thought of Edward as Segunda is both hilarious and oddly fitting. I endorse that idea.

[CMOTDibbler]

How about Sabas, then? Dorizzit needs fraccion...

[Steilos]

You know, if we're hurting so much for fraccion, I could make one. It's not like I'm drowning in characters or things to do.

[CheapAfterTaste]

Bonjourno I'm a newbie and I've made my first character and I would like comments and what not. Please and thanks.
CMOTDibbler and you know that guy...>.> oh yeah Righty convinced me to join and so i did :D!

Name: Rya Tamasine
Position: 10th 3rd Seat
Reiatsu: Slate Grey
Age: 7
Height: 3'8
Weight: 69

Spoiler

Show

Appearance: Rya is a humanoid (dragon/human). Rya has silver hair and onyx black eyes. He has wings that spread three feet. Rya looks like a seven year old little child, but he is actually around four hundred years old. His body is covered with white (greenish tented) scales. He wears a standard black hakama and black haori with the white sash, but he doesn't wear any shoes and prefers to run around bare footed.

Personality: Rya is actually has a twin brother named Ryu whose soul was trapped inside of his body. There is no given time in which one is in control they're always acting as one. Rya and Ryu are very playful and they like to play pranks on the other shinigami on a regular basis. However when in battle or an important issue arises they become very serious.

Zanpakuto: Ryū-ryoku
Ryū-ryoku is a duel Kodachi


Shikai: Kasai burēdo (Fire Blades) while in shikai form the blades of Ryū-ryoku turn dark red and engulf in flames. Ryū-ryoku is enchanted in with fire and enchances the damage of its attacks.

Bankai: Tamashī o sakujo suru (Remove Soul) while in bankai form Ryu's soul is stripped from Rya's body and it takes the form of a body identical to Rya's. Ryu is then enabled to fight outside of Rya's body and he uses one of the blades of Ryū-ryoku.

Abilities: All of Rya's senses are enhanced. He has exceptional vision, hearing, and sense of smell.

Other: While Ryu's and Rya's mother was giving birth she devoured Ryu's body and his soul sort of wandered into Rya's body some how o_O.

[Boo]

@Sucrose: I was not "bitching". And let me repeat that I wanted it as it is because I found it interesting to write, not "shock value". Please reread my statements, and don't assume I'm such an ass.

@KD: I was not giving any poor attitude.

Where do you guys get these ideas? This is not how you should approach people. And no, KD, I'm not speaking down to you. I have great respect for you both, and I don't wish to argue, but we must in this case.

@Draken/KD's idea: Why would Himura be taken in as a potential bride? Either it doesn't make sense with the "dying noblehouse" part (what idiot would take a bride from a poor house?), or it screws around with her being thrown into Rukongai. Wouldn't her original family protest?

I get the idea, but I find that it just doesn't work for me, personally. (Don't twist this sentence for your own use, please)

Something that I would like to know is why you two (and others) find this particular thing so much worse than murder, racism, or anything else (because if I only involve a murder or ten, no one would complain). What about it makes it so bad? PM me in reply so you can go all out with words. I have no intention of reporting anyone for any bad tides carried my way. Even if they address me as if personifying Lewis Black.

And let me say again, but to everyone: Don't assume I'm such an ass in my posts. I'm sorry if some of my writing is ambiguous, and some of my historic writing is offensive to some. I have no intention of patronizing, being condescending, or insulting anyone.

[KnightDisciple]

Why would she be taken in as a potential bride? Well, remember there are 70 districts (well, x4, but you get the idea). Maybe she was in the, oh, late 20s. A flower shop girl, or calligraphy girl. Maybe Brother 2 was enamored with her, or the mother saw her and thought "she looks like good breeding material". You have her joining the Shinigami Academy eventually; they likely could detect she had potential for spiritual power. That means she could bear children with that potential. Who could become shinigami. Which brings more prestige to the house.

If you stop and actually try to think of reasons, it's not that hard.

You say you're finding it "interesting to write"; previously, you hadn't given any reason other than "because", so it wasn't hard to say "shock value" played some part.

Neither of us sees what this particular part of the story (not the whole story, but this one part) actually brings to the table in the manner of positive cumulative storytelling. That's a very meta concept, by the way. It doesn't mean "all stories must be sunshine and light". Just that there are things we'd like to keep out.

Did we ever say we found it worse than murder or racism? I sure didn't. But racism isn't involved in your posts, so it's not an issue in this conversation. Stop trying to distract the subject at hand.

The other issue is that it's being portrayed in an at least somewhat positive light. The idea of the father beating his son to death was never a positive in any way. I think no one needs to say that "murder is bad". And I don't know about Sucrose, but I'm not a huge fan of murders all over backstories.

But again, this relationship is being cast in something of a positive light, because it's being told as a "romance". That's half the problem.

Why didn't I take this to PM, some might ask? So that there's no question on what I said.

[riccaru]

Who's the septima then?

[Sucrose]

@Sucrose: I was not "bitching". And let me repeat that I wanted it as it is because I found it interesting to write, not "shock value". Please reread my statements, and don't assume I'm such an ass.

@KD: I was not giving any poor attitude.

Where do you guys get these ideas? This is not how you should approach people. And no, KD, I'm not speaking down to you. I have great respect for you both, and I don't wish to argue, but we must in this case.

@Draken/KD's idea: Why would Himura be taken in as a potential bride? Either it doesn't make sense with the "dying noblehouse" part (what idiot would take a bride from a poor house?), or it screws around with her being thrown into Rukongai. Wouldn't her original family protest?

I get the idea, but I find that it just doesn't work for me, personally. (Don't twist this sentence for your own use, please)

Something that I would like to know is why you two (and others) find this particular thing so much worse than murder, racism, or anything else (because if I only involve a murder or ten, no one would complain). What about it makes it so bad? PM me in reply so you can go all out with words. I have no intention of reporting anyone for any bad tides carried my way. Even if they address me as if personifying Lewis Black.

And let me say again, but to everyone: Don't assume I'm such an ass in my posts. I'm sorry if some of my writing is ambiguous, and some of my historic writing is offensive to some. I have no intention of patronizing, being condescending, or insulting anyone.

You know, I might be inclined to believe that you're being somewhat respectful if you didn't just reply to a PM in the main thread.

Beyond that, I echo KD, and would also like to ask exactly what makes pushing our buttons so much more interesting to you than a narratively equivalent device that isn't horrifically disgusting.

As for the nature of our complaint, if you cannot understand what about the idea of adoptive incest disgusts us now, I honestly doubt that you are capable of it.

I will not take this to PMs, when you so clearly fail to recognize the boundary between them and the thread.

[Boo]

I see your meaning with the "stop and think" part, however I felt a hastened reply was necessary. The story that you suggested just doesn't flow for me, sorry. I will try to think of something else that I might enjoy writing about.

I outright stated it had nothing to do with "shock value". That should have been enough.

The point about murder wasn't to distract, nor did I say anyone mentioned them. It was simply a point about perception in media. Yes, the relationship is shown in a positive light, but so is murder in many films/novels that everyone here may like. There are emotional concerns within my story, but I haven't discussed them because they are such specific details. They're not set in stone, so I won't talk about them.

The family part plays a small role in the backstory (in size), so implying that is is "all over" the backstory doesn't quite hit a bullseye. The only mentioned sexual act is kissing. If you think something else is present, you're embellishing.

@^: Sorry. I cannot fully express that, but yes I am truly sorry for that mistake. As well, I do not find pushing your buttons interesting.

This argument really hasn't moved, has it? KD, don't answer that.

[AmberVael]

You know what I think is worse for the game than Boo's backstory?

This argument.

You have the rights to your opinions and desires, and to express them- and honestly, I can very much sympathize why you're turned off by that element of the backstory. I'd probably be happier if it was eliminated too.

But frankly, I feel this argument is killing the mood (at least currently) much more effectively than the character.

So honestly... I don't want to tell you to stop, but I highly encourage you guys to find some nicer and subtler way of working this all out.

[riccaru]

I'm with Vael. If this argument wasn't a complete stalemate it might be different, but as of now, there is no give and take. None of you are willing to change your ideas at this point, so why bother with the fighting? My suggestion of a homosexual love is still out there, as it fits most of the criteria. Boo still gets to have a forbidden (in the feudal japanese setting that the seretei seems to use) love, and the others won't find it nearly as wrong (I assume) as the perceived incest. Everyone wins. It's still a depth to the character that is ultimately a parallel. It was extremely forbidden in feudal times, but now it is seen as perfectly acceptable. Maybe the father even feels bad about this? This could all work better than the insanely mind numbing stalemate you have now. Neither side here is "right" in my eyes, but both have points that are relevant, and it's largely the SAME point. This point is freedom of speech. Boo feels he should be allowed to have this backstory, and the others feel they should not be subjected unwillingly to material they find inappropriate.

[AmberVael]

My suggestion of a homosexual love is still out there, as it fits most of the criteria. Boo still gets to have a forbidden (in the feudal japanese setting that the seretei seems to use) love, and the others won't find it nearly as wrong (I assume) as the perceived incest...

Well darn, I guess I'm going to have forbidden love written all over my characters.

[riccaru]

Well darn, I guess I'm going to have forbidden love written all over my characters.

Well sorry, but you have to admit it was highly frowned upon in feudal societies. I'm NOT getting into this arguement on one side or the other.