Drowtales, Good or Bad?

[Felius]

I find it somewhat decent. I'm not a big fan of the retcons though, as, although it changed some things that needed change, it also humanized too much the drows. It's ok for the drow society to have values, including sexual values, extremely far away for our society. That said, I understand that it annoys a LOT of people, so it's not a major peeve for me, but it still is...

[Lord_Drayakir]

It's terrible. I believe the word Mary Sue has been used once or twice before, and I second that strongly, plus the creator can't stop gushing over how awesome Drow are.

They aren't. Firstly, their society is impossible (inb4 stop bringing real-world logic into a fantasy setting). No. This qualifies. Drow are basically Orcs with better magic. They cannot have any sort of stable political structure, or any sort of organization?

Why?

Because they're too busy jockeying for power, assassinating one another, and generally being about as cooperative as two cats in a sack. Plus, they fritter away resources on stupid crap (see: the first book about Drizzt).

So, actually, it's not so much the comic I hate- it's not good, it's not bad- but it's the fantasy race that I hate. The Drow suck, and they cannot function properly as a society.

[Drakyn]

^^ Pretty much this. Elves in a badly-thought-out fantasy setting are one of two things: obnoxious know-it-alls for the humans to show just how awesome they are to ("Ha ha! We're the only species that matches the author's, and so we're not in decline! SUCK IT!"), or like humans but better in almost every way because pointy ears.
Drow are almost always the second type, with the added attributes of being one of those villain groupings that is treated as super powerful even when it seems like it would make no sense (see above post again). So, they're from an arbitrarily overpowered species (POINTY EARS!), and they're treated as arbitrarily dangerous threats (a society where everyone beats each other up constantly produces powerful people in large numbers and in no way shape or form a discohesive mess that falls apart when you blow on it). The unbelievable added to by further unbelievability.

[Jayngfet]

As I've found out, trying to bring logic into the drowtales forum either gets the comment ignored, or gets you yelled at for not accepting "it's fantasy" as a handwave. God I've always hated that handwave, it always gets used by lazy worldbuilders to cover up gaping holes they can't be bothered to fill, and only by them.

[Ganurath]

It's terrible. I believe the word Mary Sue has been used once or twice before, and I second that strongly, plus the creator can't stop gushing over how awesome Drow are.

Again, the Mary Sue factor has been toned down considerably. Getting it completely down to normal would have involved abandoning the old comic entirely for something new. As for the drow fandom of the author... I don't see how it adversely impacts the comic.

They aren't. Firstly, their society is impossible (inb4 stop bringing real-world logic into a fantasy setting). No. This qualifies. Drow are basically Orcs with better magic. They cannot have any sort of stable political structure, or any sort of organization?

Their society is possible, simply decaying, which is a point that comes up several times in the comic, particularly the council meeting. They do have a stable political structure, one that's been in place for centuries, it's just that the story takes place during a period of upheaval and recovery when there's a signifigant story to be told.

Because they're too busy jockeying for power, assassinating one another, and generally being about as cooperative as two cats in a sack. Plus, they fritter away resources on stupid crap (see: the first book about Drizzt).

There is no Drizzt in Drowtales. While the pre-retcon comic was based on the setting, post-retcon it's an entirely seperate world. While there are conflicts for power, the impact is noticable (barren Quain'tana, tainted Naal, etc.) and not handwaved away.

So, actually, it's not so much the comic I hate- it's not good, it's not bad- but it's the fantasy race that I hate. The Drow suck, and they cannot function properly as a society.

So, your hostility toward the comic is based on the assumption that all drow societies follow the same sociopolitical structure in every fantasy setting?

^^ Pretty much this. Elves in a badly-thought-out fantasy setting are one of two things: obnoxious know-it-alls for the humans to show just how awesome they are to ("Ha ha! We're the only species that matches the author's, and so we're not in decline! SUCK IT!"), or like humans but better in almost every way because pointy ears.
Drow are almost always the second type, with the added attributes of being one of those villain groupings that is treated as super powerful even when it seems like it would make no sense (see above post again). So, they're from an arbitrarily overpowered species (POINTY EARS!), and they're treated as arbitrarily dangerous threats (a society where everyone beats each other up constantly produces powerful people in large numbers and in no way shape or form a discohesive mess that falls apart when you blow on it). The unbelievable added to by further unbelievability.

It isn't the pointy ears that makes Drow better in Drowtales, it's mana arts coupled with extended lifespan. In case you didn't notice, light elves and their descendants are better off than humans as well. The reason drow are better off than light elves is because they got out of dodge when demon gates were being opened across the surface, while the light elves remained behind. Now that that edge is starting to wear off, the surface races are making a comeback and the Underworld is in decline.

As I've found out, trying to bring logic into the drowtales forum either gets the comment ignored, or gets you yelled at for not accepting "it's fantasy" as a handwave. God I've always hated that handwave, it always gets used by lazy worldbuilders to cover up gaping holes they can't be bothered to fill, and only by them.

While for the most part it's a handwave, there is a point where reality needs to step aside to make way for fantasy. Also, MST3K.

[Drakyn]

It isn't the pointy ears that makes Drow better in Drowtales, it's mana arts coupled with extended lifespan. In case you didn't notice, light elves and their descendants are better off than humans as well. The reason drow are better off than light elves is because they got out of dodge when demon gates were being opened across the surface, while the light elves remained behind. Now that that edge is starting to wear off, the surface races are making a comeback and the Underworld is in decline.

So, the elves aren't better because they have pointy ears, they're better because they have ubermagic, which they have because they have pointy ears.
I still can't see anything worth noting here. They're still elves. They're still basically humans with minor physiological differences and an automatic hookup to pretty impressive power. There's probably further reasons behind that too, but we don't have to get all chicken-or-egg on this: it's a pretty good bet the reasons were created after the fact to justify the drow getting nice things. Drow getting nice things was going to be a basic fact of the cosmology, all that was required was some explanation for how they got there.

[Lord_Drayakir]

Again, the Mary Sue factor has been toned down considerably. Getting it completely down to normal would have involved abandoning the old comic entirely for something new. As for the drow fandom of the author... I don't see how it adversely impacts the comic.Their society is possible, simply decaying, which is a point that comes up several times in the comic, particularly the council meeting. They do have a stable political structure, one that's been in place for centuries, it's just that the story takes place during a period of upheaval and recovery when there's a signifigant story to be told.There is no Drizzt in Drowtales. While the pre-retcon comic was based on the setting, post-retcon it's an entirely seperate world. While there are conflicts for power, the impact is noticable (barren Quain'tana, tainted Naal, etc.) and not handwaved away.So, your hostility toward the comic is based on the assumption that all drow societies follow the same sociopolitical structure in every fantasy setting?It isn't the pointy ears that makes Drow better in Drowtales, it's mana arts coupled with extended lifespan. In case you didn't notice, light elves and their descendants are better off than humans as well. The reason drow are better off than light elves is because they got out of dodge when demon gates were being opened across the surface, while the light elves remained behind. Now that that edge is starting to wear off, the surface races are making a comeback and the Underworld is in decline.While for the most part it's a handwave, there is a point where reality needs to step aside to make way for fantasy. Also, MST3K.

I'm not gonna argue with you too whole-hearetedly- it's your opinion, about a rather lackluster (IMO) webcomic. AS far as the Drow go, if they stop being backstabbing power-hungry bastards, only held from all-out civil war by the will of Lolth, then they are not Drow.

[Vulkan]

I read it back in high school and it was good at first... Then it declained quickly

[Jayngfet]

While for the most part it's a handwave, there is a point where reality needs to step aside to make way for fantasy. Also, MST3K.

That point really shouldn't come quickly. When your civilization defies physics, biology, chemistry, and geology all at once, there is a problem. It's not even that they can all be handwaved as "magic".

[Deca]

I found the comic rather dull. The art was good but...eh. As someone already said, it's not that dynamic.

Also, the way that Elves Are Just Totally Awesome all the time is kind of grating. That sort of stuff is annoying. I tolerated it in Avatar because Colonel Miles Quatrich was badass.
So unless he shows up in Drowtales, I'm not reading it that much further.

[Jayngfet]

Also, the way that Elves Are Just Totally Awesome all the time is kind of grating. That sort of stuff is annoying. I tolerated it in Avatar because Colonel Miles Quatrich was badass.
So unless he shows up in Drowtales, I'm not reading it that much further.

Indeed, dude was badass. He was a fire ignoring, mech fighting, gas mask rejecting, gun shooting badass. I mean lets face it, if the scientists told you the planet was alive and your man was ignoring the goal and going native, how would YOU react? He wants the Unbotanium to help earth not be a craphole and he isn't letting any pseudo-elven bullcrap get in his way.

[Deca]

Indeed, dude was badass. He was a fire ignoring, mech fighting, gas mask rejecting, gun shooting badass. I mean lets face it, if the scientists told you the planet was alive and your man was ignoring the goal and going native, how would YOU react? He wants the Unbotanium to help earth not be a craphole and he isn't letting any pseudo-elven bullcrap get in his way.

Yeah. At least Avatar was saying that Elves are Better than You, But That's Alright Because Humans Are Awesome.

Drowtales just says Elves are Better than You and leaves it at that.

[Jayngfet]

Yeah. At least Avatar was saying that Elves are Better than You, But That's Alright Because Humans Are Awesome.

Drowtales just says Elves are Better than You and leaves it at that.

Better in every way and there's no problem rubbing it in everyone elses faces. I wouldn't be so mad if it wasn't so justified. "Elves will displace humans and ruin everything for everyone else" by itself seems terrible.

When you add in a violent group that seems deserving of it however it seems like a way to justify genocide.

[Magikeeper]

The fact that ‘drow are awesome’ in the setting shouldn't matter that much given that the story is mostly drow vs drow. They are having one story arc that includes non-drow societies. I doubt there will be two. You make it sound like the entire comic revolves around drow shoving it in everyone else’s faces when that is not the case. The other races are generally a footnote of little import.


I think this sums it up:
It’s a comic about drow and mostly revolves around the nobles of their society during a period of internal strife. Humans and other races play bit roles similar orcs and goblins play in some other tales (ones in which they are not major threats).



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The following is not a perfect analogy, but there are comics where the entire (human) cast has superhuman powers. Do you get this angry about those characters being better at stuff then average, real-world humans would be?

“elves are better than you” is something you can find in this story if you look for it. I admit it wouldn’t be hard to find. Humans suck basically every time their race as a whole comes up. Which, not counting the recent story arc, might be as many as 10 of hundreds of pages. Maybe. Counting the recent story arc you have maybe 20-35 more pages of human fail. Much like humans are the center of most other tales, drow are the only race that generally matter in this one. Hence the site name. Honestly, I don’t personally identify myself with medieval humans anyhow.

But if you dislike elves because of the whole modern-day culture of super elf-love, which it really sounds like you do, then you will not like this comic.

I was going to talk about specific situations, but I think the level of human acheivement you wanted to see would not be possible by simply making the battles more difficult. Humans would pretty much have to highjack the plot. Correct me if I'm wrong about this.

[Ganurath]

That point really shouldn't come quickly. When your civilization defies physics, biology, chemistry, and geology all at once, there is a problem. It's not even that they can all be handwaved as "magic".

The full name of the trope is Magic A Is Magic A. Yes, there are gross violations of our understanding of the world, but the violations are consistent within the setting, which is more than can be said for some other webcomics along a similiar vein of seriousness, which are inconsistent in the roll of reality-violation to maintain a state of normalcy.

...Jayngfet, is it me, or does it always come back to Drowtales not being enough like Dominic Deegan? That, and frustation at the lack of Screw You Elves in a story that has elves and humans at the same time.

[Jayngfet]

The fact that ‘drow are awesome’ in the setting shouldn't matter that much given that the story is mostly drow vs drow. They are having had one story arc that includes non-drow societies. I doubt there will be two. You make it sound like the entire comic revolves around drow shoving it in everyone else’s faces when that is not the case. The other races are generally a footnote of little import.


I think this sums it up:
It’s a comic about drow and mostly revolves around the nobles of their society during a period of internal strife. Humans and other races play bit roles similar orcs and goblins play in some other tales (ones in which they are not major threats).

Playing a bit part doesn't equate to "Completley useless in every way and no threat to any elves anywhere. Any actions on the surface may as well be met with no resistance."

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The following is not a perfect analogy, but there are comics where the entire (human) cast has superhuman powers. Do you get this angry about those characters being better at stuff then average, real-world humans would be?

“elves are better than you” is something you can find in this story if you look for it. I admit it wouldn’t be hard to find. Humans suck basically every time their race as a whole comes up. Which, not counting the recent story arc, might be as many as 10 of hundreds of pages. Maybe. Counting the recent story arc you have maybe 20-35 more pages of human fail. Much like humans are the center of most other tales, drow are the only race that generally matter in this one. Hence the site name. Honestly, I don’t personally identify myself with medieval humans anyhow.

But if you dislike elves because of the whole modern-day culture of super elf-love, which it really sounds like you do, then you will not like this comic.

I was going to talk about specific situations, but I think the level of human acheivement you wanted to see would not be possible by simply making the battles more difficult. Humans would pretty much have to highjack the plot. Correct me if I'm wrong about this.

Mutants in X-Men die from non mutants, in fact thats why mutant hate groups are so deadly. The super hero regitstration act was more or less normal people not wanting to be trivialised. Marvel and DC both have several normal characters.

No one expects humans to come out on top, but this was pathetic. Storm Troopers at least get to fire their weapons instead of looking terrified as they wait for elves to hit them. Mooks generally do damage even if they don't have Midi Chlorians or X Genes or whatever super inborn power the plot has.

This however was just sad. This was the universe set up just so we aren't' supposed to feel sad as one side built up through the story as being a threat at some point was utterly curbstomped. There were visions, they had Faen. There were expectations, and they weren't met.

We expected some challange, some struggle. Instead Ariel and Co. show up, find slaves, do everything onscreen effortlessly. The two knights that actually got their act together die offscreen, and attempting to get slaves out of an enemy fortress happens offscreen.

They show up, walk in, have the Raiders hand their victory to them, pat themselves on the back for what amounts to no challange and no elves actually hurt, and walk off with no difficulties occouring.


Hell, is this the lands Quain'tana braved after centuries of advancement? Looking back on chapter one, she brought an army in full steel against unarmored bronze aged opponents.

This arc wasn't just bad in and of itslef, it made me lose any modicum of respect I had for the entirity of the Sarghress clan .

[chiasaur11]

Mutants in X-Men die from non mutants, in fact thats why mutant hate groups are so deadly. The super hero regitstration act was more or less normal people not wanting to be trivialised. Marvel and DC both have several normal characters.

Heck, you look at the top four Avengers for Marvel?

Cap
Thor
Iron Man
Hawkeye.

One of them, admittedly, is Thor, norse god of ass kicking. The other three?

Iron Man? Ordinary guy (okay, ordinary genius billionaire playboy) in a self built power suit.

Cap's "Peak Human". He's got power, but nothing that somebody else couldn't pull if'n they really tried.

And Hawkeye, the guy who:

Saved the galaxy from the Grandmaster when only two Avengers were left alive, kicked Iron Man's butt to the curb, helped save the world from total Doc Doom domination.

His powers?

"I have a bow."

And at DC, well, Batman.

So, yeah. Lots of comics where ordinary schmucks pull off the impossible despite not being in the "Elite."

[Kiroth6]

To Dota:
This comic was my first real experience with the Drow, soI can't say anything about the drow other than what I have seen in the comic. I started about the same time the retcon was starting and I think that it is better for it.

I've continued to read it and have especially enjoyed the high medieval style political battles. The art is interesting to look and I enjoy the attention to detail.
One of the main problems I have is that there are quite a few players in the story so it is sometimes difficult to keep track of everyone. Also, the attention to detail sometimes requires a close look to figure out what exactly is going on.

If you enjoy high fantasy drama, I'd recommend that you take a look at it to see if is your cup of tea.

[Magikeeper]

I would advise people looking for a 'good or bad?' take on the comic to look at the post above this one.

Jayngfet, if a disease caused the entire surface human population to flee the area and never again appear in the comic, what would the effect on the story be?

...very little. Nearly all main plot threads would be unaffected. I call that a bit part. As in, slightly above scenery.

Normal humans tend to play more than a bit part in the other comics mentioned. If they all vanished the story would be quite different. X-men in particular would be VERY different if the normals went *poof*.


Most of the rest of your argument is based around a battle that was built up, and then rushed through in an attempt to quickly move through that part of the story. Any battle so built up and then anti-climatically finished would have that problem. I do not think that fact supports your accusation that humans sucking is a deep flaw that undermines the entire comic.

[Jayngfet]

Jayngfet, if a disease caused the entire surface human population to flee the area and never again appear in the comic, what would the effect on the story be?

...very little. Nearly all main plot threads would be unaffected. I call that a bit part. As in, slightly above scenery.

Normal humans tend to play more than a bit part in the other comics mentioned. If they all vanished the story would be quite different. X-men in particular would be VERY different if the normals went *poof*.


Most of the rest of your argument is based around a battle that was built up, and then rushed through in an attempt to quickly move through that part of the story. Any battle so built up and then anti-climatically finished would have that problem. I do not think that fact supports your accusation that humans sucking is a deep flaw that undermines the entire comic.

The anti climax is what I'm getting at here. I can get into the use of humans, but thats another can of worms entirely.

[Magikeeper]

I felt the need to argue because some hypothetical person might read this thread, read your posts, and then come away thinking that the comic is mostly a 'oh let's laugh at how much the humans suck'-fest when that really is not the case. It is not mostly anything involving humanity at all.

I'm not going to argue that the anti-climax of that battle was not an anti-climax.

[Jayngfet]

I felt the need to argue because some hypothetical person might read this thread, read your posts, and then come away thinking that the comic is mostly a 'oh let's laugh at how much the humans suck'-fest when that really is not the case. It is not mostly anything involving humanity at all.

I'm not going to argue that the anti-climax of that battle was not an anti-climax.

...In what way was it satisfying? There was little effort or sense of urgency. The characters show no consequences from rushing in unprepared, with no plan, and dragging in noncombatants. The whole of one hit is even attempted onscreen. When Shan and Vaela get caught in a fight thats challanging, it's cut.

When Chiri finds the Halme king, he sticks his head in the bath and dispite having a knife makes no attempt at swinging. She kills him and anyone trying to stop her without effort.

When two knights show up, prepared to fight and ready, instead of an actual challange it's cut.

When Ariel needs to get to Faen she encounters no resistance after splitting up and going alone. She gets one minor injury from lockpicking and thats it.

We get a challange as a noncombatant is taken by surprise by someone, ending in a cliffhanger then the whole thing happens onscreen.

When she tries getting the other prisoners up, we don't see anything either. All the actual challanges are cut and we get to the highland raiders, who manage to seal off all guards effortlessly, robbing any possibility of future difficulty.

There is no challange or consequence, they walk in, act like a bunch of idiots, and walk out with no consequence for acting like idiots. Did anybody ever expect Chiri or Shan or Kyo'nne or Ariel to be disfigured or injured in any way?

[Hamilkar]

While I agree with your latest statement, Jayngfet, I must also say Magikeeper has a point. Imagine the discussion to this point towards an absolute newcomer. All this discussion that DT is bad/unrealistic because of A, B and C, where A, B, and C are ofter quite detailed and spoilerish story parts, do not help an newcomer but rather shun him away.

To come back to the original question, I'd say that Drowtales is a good comic. The art is great and the story quite interesting – however also more complex. A quite elaborate world setting has been created. Also the comic is about Drows (a little different from the D&D Drows) so the story is from their point of view. (Sounds obvious doesn't it? )

There are people who complain that the Drow in DT are not evil/unethical enough to be Drows and there are other people who can't tolerate a world setting were the Drow race is evil/unethical towards the other races and themselves, views other races as uncivilized and has a real advantage on the other races, especially on humans because Drows have magic and a very long life span. This comic is quite polarizing, that's for sure.

[Fion MacCumhail]

@jaygnfet:
uhmm, magikeeper explicitly said that he didn't disagree with you about the battle being anti-climatic

also, would you please finally let go of that topic? you already hijacked quite a number of threads on the drowtales forums with it.

[Zanaril]

Is there anywhere where you can see the pre-retcon comics, for comparison?

[guttering flame]

About the lack of battle scenes:

While it's true that this confrontation was rushed there is often a tendency in comics to wallow in fighting scenes and spend stacks of pages on this sort of fight-porn while the plot, character development and world building are all stuck in place. Drowtales is plenty guilty of this fault itself (like the recent Kyorl-Vloz-Dwarf-Sargh-... battle), so if this makes the story and characters advanced instead I'm not that pissed at it

[HandofShadows]

Yeah, elves are SOOO great in drowtales and better than humans. They are so great they nearly extermintaed themsleves by summoning demons and they heading down that same path again. Yep, wiping out your own species is a sure sign that you are a great and eveyone else stinks.

Frankly I cannot understand in any way how people can think the elves in dorwtales are awesome, great or better than humans. I would not want to be on the same continent with a lot of them. And for more than a few of them I thinking calling down orbital bombardment from a Black Lion class warship (from Battletech) is the safest way to deal with them.

Power does not make one cool, awesome or better than anyone else. And to belive that power makes one better than those without power needs to learn a great deal.

[Ganurath]

...In what way was it satisfying? There was little effort or sense of urgency. The characters show no consequences from rushing in unprepared, with no plan, and dragging in noncombatants. The whole of one hit is even attempted onscreen. When Shan and Vaela get caught in a fight thats challanging, it's cut.

And if the plot of Drowtales were combat-driven rather than story driven, that would be a much larger issue than it is. The fact of the matter is that most humans on the Surface World are superstitious, at least regarding drow. They aren't going to have much trouble with humans unless the humans are the ones with initiative.

When Chiri finds the Halme king, he sticks his head in the bath and dispite having a knife makes no attempt at swinging. She kills him and anyone trying to stop her without effort.

Given his beliefs, I think he thought he had better odds with the elf blood then trying to go against a fully armored knight with a fireball in her free hand. That, and that his minions would be more time efficient in dying to save his life.

When two knights show up, prepared to fight and ready, instead of an actual challange it's cut.

Didn't we already discuss how such a fight scene would have no substantial impact on the plot? I understand you'd prefer that, but some of us were around for Drowtale's answer to Maltak that was Chapter 12. They weren't doing daily updates when they made those 90 pages.

When Ariel needs to get to Faen she encounters no resistance after splitting up and going alone. She gets one minor injury from lockpicking and thats it.

Yes, because she was pursuing a tactical target that guard positions would be abundantly placed between, and most definitely wasn't a shapeshifting abomination in the house of the fearful and superstitious.

We get a challange as a noncombatant is taken by surprise by someone, ending in a cliffhanger then the whole thing happens onscreen.

...Allowing for unreliable narrator, which is a major point of Kyo'nne's character, and once more avoiding a needless fight scene.

When she tries getting the other prisoners up, we don't see anything either. All the actual challanges are cut and we get to the highland raiders, who manage to seal off all guards effortlessly, robbing any possibility of future difficulty.

So... You're mad that Ariel didn't encounter resistance on the way back on the route she didn't encounter resistance, and that the Highland Raiders didn't encounter resistance on the route where the main cast already cleared resistance? That's consistency, and the alternative is conflict for the sake of conflict.

There is no challange or consequence, they walk in, act like a bunch of idiots, and walk out with no consequence for acting like idiots. Did anybody ever expect Chiri or Shan or Kyo'nne or Ariel to be disfigured or injured in any way?

Chiri, yes, because the visions were misleading. It's been established in canon that visions can be misleading. Heck, Chiri hasn't had a vision yet where there wasn't some detail that was off: Ariel's guards, the extremity of Tir'ade's tainting, and now the identity of the bloodbath sacrifice.

Shan, no, because he has had tweny years of training in killing people and knows how to compensate for his weaknesses, and while fighting alongside Vaelia forces opponents to guard against two different vertical levels as well as lateral positions.

Kyo'nne, sorta, I expected the squire to try to take her alive either as a sacrifice or as the gate guard wanted Vaelia. Since it happened offscreen, that possibility could still be the case, and Kyo'nne is being Kyo'nne to suppress a disturbing event.

Ariel, no, because she's a shapeshifting abomination in a palace of superstitious savages. I'm getting really tired of beating this horse.

When your party consists of heavily trained dynamic duo deathknights, a shapeshifting fiend, and a former pit fighter from a warrior society, you can afford to be reckless.

[Kurald Galain]

As I've found out, trying to bring logic into the drowtales forum either gets the comment ignored, or gets you yelled at for not accepting "it's fantasy" as a handwave. God I've always hated that handwave, it always gets used by lazy worldbuilders to cover up gaping holes they can't be bothered to fill, and only by them.

Yeah, having to handwave basic world concepts on grounds that "it's fantasy" or "it's magic" is one of the clearest sign of bad writing.

Invoking MST3K ("it's only a show, you should really just relax") sounds good until you realize that the whole point of MST3K is to make fun of badly written fiction.

[Jayngfet]

@jaygnfet:
uhmm, magikeeper explicitly said that he didn't disagree with you about the battle being anti-climatic

also, would you please finally let go of that topic? you already hijacked quite a number of threads on the drowtales forums with it.

Right, must have misread it then. Sorry.