Results 1 to 30 of 33
Thread: 3.5e can healing spells critical
-
2017-09-20, 06:08 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2017
3.5e can healing spells critical
Ok so im a warlock6/cleric 3 /eldritch disciple1. Im currently using the healing blast from the eldritch disciple to apply healing blast as an essence. Now that this is stated. Im applying the blast shape eldritch chain to my eldritch blast with the healing blast essence.
1 do i have to make a ranged touch attack on each of my allies that the eldritch chain applies to.
2. If i do have to make an attack roll on each of my allies is it possible for me to critical x2 on healing?
-
2017-09-20, 06:41 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2013
Re: 3.5e can healing spells critical
Originally Posted by SRD
-
2017-09-20, 06:57 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2014
- Location
- Seattle area
- Gender
Re: 3.5e can healing spells critical
I think the normal rules are no crits or precision damage if it's healing. The same spell may crit and carry precision damage if it hurts the target though.
-
2017-09-20, 07:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Terra Australis
- Gender
Re: 3.5e can healing spells critical
I think you could only critical with a Cure if you were using it to damage a creature harmed by positive energy. And most of those are immune to critical hits.
All references in critical hit rules that I am aware of refer to multiplying "damage"; Cure spells used to cure are not inflicting "damage".
http://archive.wizards.com/default.a...damage&alpha=D
Damage
A decrease in hit points, an ability score, or other aspects of a character caused by an injury, illness, or magical effect. The three main categories of damage are lethal damage, nonlethal damage, and ability damage. In addition, wherever it is relevant, the type of damage an attack deals is specified, since natural abilities, magic items, or spell effects may grant immunity to certain types of damage. Damage types include weapon damage (subdivided into bludgeoning, slashing, and piercing) and energy damage (positive, negative, acid, cold, electricity, fire, and sonic). Modifiers to melee damage rolls apply to both subcategories of weapon damage (melee and unarmed). Some modifiers apply to both weapon and spell damage, but only if so stated. Damage points are deducted from whatever character attribute has been harmed -- lethal and nonlethal damage from current hit points, and ability damage from the relevant ability score). Damage heals naturally over time, but can also be negated wholly or partially by curative magic.Last edited by Thurbane; 2017-09-20 at 07:03 PM.
My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
Torn-City - Massively multiplayer online browser based crime RPG
-
2017-09-20, 07:08 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2017
-
2017-09-20, 07:43 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Terra Australis
- Gender
Re: 3.5e can healing spells critical
See the Weaponlike Spells rules, Rules Compendium page 132 & 136.
Originally Posted by RC p.1036
Originally Posted by SRD Cure Light Wounds
If you find a creature harmed by positive energy that it not immune to critical hits, then yes, you can critical them with a cure spell.My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
Torn-City - Massively multiplayer online browser based crime RPG
-
2017-09-20, 07:48 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2017
Re: 3.5e can healing spells critical
So basically the information im collecting is that i wont have to roll a ranged touch attack with my eldritch blast with eldritch chain(blast shape) and healing blast (essence invocation) on it.due to the fact that its a "healing spell"
-
2017-09-20, 07:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2017
Re: 3.5e can healing spells critical
Eldritch chain -This blast shape invocation allows you to improve your eldritch blast by turning it into an arc of energy that “jumps” from the first target to others. An eldritch chain can jump to one or more secondary targets within 30 feet of the first target, allowing you to make additional ranged touch attacks and deal damage to the secondary targets if you hit.
Healing blast-In place of applying an eldritch essence invocation to your eldritch blast, you can change it into a healing blast. The blast heals living creatures instead of dealing damage to them (the damage healed is equal to the damage normally dealt). Against undead, the healing blast deals damage as normal; against constructs or objects, the healing blast has no effect. Your deity must be non-evil for you to select this gift.
-
2017-09-20, 07:58 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2014
- Location
- Seattle area
- Gender
Re: 3.5e can healing spells critical
Besides agreeing with everything you wrote, there is at least one, the Kir-Lanan gargoyle from FR is a living creature that is harmed by positive energy and healed by negative. Also, there's a couple of rogue ACFs in Complete Divine, I think, that allow sneak attack to apply to undead. Get some cleric or even bard casting for cure spells, and you can stack up their damage.
-
2017-09-20, 09:09 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2012
Re: 3.5e can healing spells critical
There's a sidebar in the PHB that states that spells which require an attack roll can score a critical hit. Casting a cure spell on a willing subject doesn't take an attack roll, thus it can't crit.
You could channel it through a natural attack to force an attack roll (ie, hold the charge and punch someone in the face with it). However, though your fist might score a critical hit in this case, this method of delivery prevents the spell itself from striking critically and may provoke an attack of opportunity from your ally.
-
2017-09-20, 09:18 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2017
Re: 3.5e can healing spells critical
Yes thats true but using the facts above doesnt it allow me to make attack rolls considering eldritch chain specifically states for me to make an attack roll.
-
2017-09-20, 09:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Terra Australis
- Gender
Re: 3.5e can healing spells critical
Last edited by Thurbane; 2017-09-21 at 03:06 AM. Reason: removed snarkiness
My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
Torn-City - Massively multiplayer online browser based crime RPG
-
2017-09-20, 09:31 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2016
Re: 3.5e can healing spells critical
There's also the Tomb-Tainted Soul feat, that lets you heal with negative damage and get hurt by positive energy. You don't get any immunities with this one, so any living creature with this feat is subject to a critical heal. It's designed for necromancers and his friends though, so if someone has this feat, it probably also has some other undead immunities(or at least Fortification).
-
2017-09-20, 09:54 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2017
-
2017-09-20, 10:06 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Terra Australis
- Gender
Re: 3.5e can healing spells critical
Right, I get your question now. Sorry if I was a bit grumpy.
With a normal Cure spell, no attack roll is required. If you are using Healing Blast, then I believe you would need to make an attack roll, as an Elritch Blast (the carrier for the healing) requires an attack roll.My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
Torn-City - Massively multiplayer online browser based crime RPG
-
2017-09-20, 10:15 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2017
Re: 3.5e can healing spells critical
I so wouldnt that subject it to a critical then. If youre going by the guidelines of the phb 140
Spells and Critical Hits: A spell that requires an attack roll, such as
shocking grasp or Melf’s acid arrow, can score a critical hit. A spell attack
that requires no attack roll, such as lightning bolt, cannot score a critical
hit.
-
2017-09-20, 10:17 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2017
-
2017-09-20, 10:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Terra Australis
- Gender
Re: 3.5e can healing spells critical
Only if the attack roll is doing damage. Completely regardless of the rules on PHB p.140, only attacks that do damage can critical. You cannot critical with effects that do not do damage. For instance, Touch of Fatigue requires an attack roll, but cannot critical, even if you roll a natural 20 with your attack.
The only conceivable way you could critical with a Healing Blast is if you are using it to damage a creature (like a Kir-Lanan gargoyle, for instance). If used for healing, attack roll or no attack roll, you cannot critical with it as it is not inflicting damage.
A critical requires two things:
1. An attack roll.
2. Ability to inflict damage.
Does that clear it up?Last edited by Thurbane; 2017-09-20 at 10:25 PM.
My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
Torn-City - Massively multiplayer online browser based crime RPG
-
2017-09-20, 10:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2017
-
2017-09-20, 10:55 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2017
-
2017-09-21, 12:34 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Gender
Re: 3.5e can healing spells critical
The "multiply" refers to how many times you roll (and you add all your modifiers each time, unless those modifiers say they don't get multiplied on a crit, like sneak attack.)
So if you crit with a +1 composite longbow and have 14 Str, the "x3" means you roll (1d8+1+Str) three times.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
-
2017-09-21, 01:34 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2016
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Gender
Re: 3.5e can healing spells critical
if you want to do more healing, just get maximize spell, otherwise you take the variable that is rolling dice.
how you figure crit damage is up to each dm, some have you roll multiple times as stated, some simply have you roll once and multiply. that's called dm fiat, or rule 0.
Originally Posted by Peelee
-
2017-09-21, 02:57 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2011
Re: 3.5e can healing spells critical
An easier way to explain it is thusly: Criticals only multiply damage. Even if you did "crit" with a healing spell, there's no damage to multiply. It would be like trying to crit with a tanglefoot bag. Sure it's got an attack roll, and you rolled a natural 20 and confirmed. Congrats, you crit.... and nothing extra happened, because you weren't doing any damage.
World of Madius wiki - My personal campaign setting, including my homebrew Optional Gestalt/LA rules.
The new Quick Vestige List
-
2017-09-21, 04:14 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2012
- Location
- <<Undetected>>
- Gender
Re: 3.5e can healing spells critical
Blank 3.5 Character Creator Iron Chef Style Tables (in Google Sheets)
Chairman Emeritus of Zinc Saucier.
Avatar by Derjuin, sing her praises to Elysium.
-
2017-09-21, 08:47 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Gender
Re: 3.5e can healing spells critical
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
-
2017-09-21, 08:58 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2012
- Location
- <<Undetected>>
- Gender
Re: 3.5e can healing spells critical
Blank 3.5 Character Creator Iron Chef Style Tables (in Google Sheets)
Chairman Emeritus of Zinc Saucier.
Avatar by Derjuin, sing her praises to Elysium.
-
2017-09-29, 04:01 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2012
-
2017-09-29, 05:20 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2010
- Location
- ganiseville GA
- Gender
Re: 3.5e can healing spells critical
On the otherhand it makes no sense to me that your high dex friend is HARDER to heal due to his dex. I would allow, as dm, your healing blasts to target ff ac as the target is not dodging them.
-
2017-09-29, 05:41 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2012
Re: 3.5e can healing spells critical
Wouldn't your ally be actively moving into the healing blast? Surely that means you just have to hit AC 5 (the equivalent of being helpless (possibly lower if DM rules it)+static bonuses to touch ac that can't be turned off like deflection.
On a side note, I also love the idea of the BBEG noticing what you are doing and jumping in front of one of the healing blasts.
-
2017-09-29, 05:52 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2010
- Location
- ganiseville GA
- Gender
Re: 3.5e can healing spells critical
Last edited by Fouredged Sword; 2017-09-29 at 05:53 AM.