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2015-06-28, 06:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2011
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Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVI. Status: It's Complicated
I tried once but then I remembered that I'm not actually interested in people. Probably explains why it didn't go anywhere.
Jude P.
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2015-06-28, 07:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2013
- Location
- Madrid, kingdom of Spain
- Gender
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2015-06-28, 10:14 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVI. Status: It's Complicated
Oh yes, obviously. Mine also totally seem 100% tailored to the woman contacted, every single time. They're very long and make it crystal clear with (always appropriate) references that I've read their entire profiles and also that we share a lot of common traits. (Otherwise, I wouldn't contact them in the first place!)
It's just that it's quite a bit quicker to start with a common refined-with-time template. I rework it every time, needless to say, to tailor it to the recipient. (Well, I should say I reworkED it every time back when I was on online dating sites; I've been in a stable relationship for nearly a year now.)
My advice... [edited to add: advice meant for Spanish Paladin, not for you dehro!] ... if you just do like I did... start with a long custom message the first time (obviously). Second time, you'll probably find yourself re-using elements of your first one. Then, as time passes and you write more girls, and also as you see more and more profiles of girls who share traits with you, you might find slightly different ways of saying things that you find a bit better than what you currently have as your own (I'd simply call that gaining ranks in your Online Dating skill).
So your "basic template" will evolve a bit. Eventually, it will stabilize and you'll become greatly skilled at customizing it quickly and efficiently for every girl you choose to write.
Those women, more often than not, share, according to their profile, a fair share of common traits and interests with me.
I still get ignored a lot, as most everybody does, but when I do get an answer, it's fairly common occurrence that a date results from it...
Every woman I've dated or even chatted with has complained to me about copypaste messages that show no insight in their profile.
Girls were very, very, very often complaining that average/typical douchebaggey guys will all just say something like "hi cutie" (presumably they're just sending that to nearly everyone and hoping for a 0.01% response rate), and all girls will tell you they're ignoring those, which are really the bulk of the "junk mail" they're getting from guys on these online dating sites.
Long messages like yours and mine will really stand out and will have a much higher response rate. It also helps immediately identify us as well-educated guys. (My English might suck, but my mastery of my native language is second to none.)
That's a good start, right there.
So... summary: your experience really mirrors mine.
Spanish Paladin: if you want my advice, you can PM me whatever you want to put as your profile. I've had so many Colombian and Cuban tenants over the years that I'm pretty fluent now (nearly all my bedside reading has been done in Spanish for years) so I'm probably still good enough to be able to give feedback without having to use Google Translate :PLast edited by lio45; 2015-06-28 at 10:16 PM.
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2015-06-28, 10:26 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVI. Status: It's Complicated
The answer to that is "yes".
It's just a tool to facilitate initial contact... puts a ton of singles in contact with a ton of other singles. The rest is up to you. "Duration and quality of the relationship" is as good, probably even better, than with someone met IRL.
I say even better because someone met online is more likely to share a lot of traits with you, compared to someone met not online (as the Christmas office party, etc.) since by the nature of online dating there's a pretty heavy selection for these traits in the first place.
I wouldn't even call that "online dating"... in my experience it's more like "online initial contact, real life dating".Offer good while supplies last. Two to a customer. Each item sold separately. Batteries not included. Mileage may vary. All sales are final. Allow six weeks for delivery. Some items not available. Some assembly required. Some restrictions may apply. All entries become our property. Employees not eligible. Entry fees not refundable. Local restrictions apply. Void where prohibited. Except in Indiana.
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2015-06-29, 05:20 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2006
- Location
- Dinosaur Museum aw yisss.
- Gender
Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVI. Status: It's Complicated
Can confirm bits of the above. If someone sends me message consisting of "hey", "hi", "wanna chat" and similar, they have to be the most beautiful man with the most fascinating profile to get a response to me. I haven't found a profile that interested me I'm the least from anyone who sent me a message containing a comment about my looks, boobs or a straight-up proposition. And the rape threats and chubbychasers and creepy old men who offer a spin in their sex dungeon, well, they get mercilessly ridiculed.
I do try to respond to people who send me an interesting message that indicates they've at least glanced at some of my profile and starts an actual conversation. I don't mind the semi-tailored template-based approach described above - I understand the asymmetry and I think that's a fair compromise. And y'know, if I can't tell the difference, who cares? I just need to get the feeling that they want to talk to *me*, not just anyone they can get.
A word of caution: be careful about making your messages too long. Real substance is great, but if I see something more than a few paragraphs I have a bad habit of putting it off until later when I can do it properly and then forgetting about it. That might just be me, but it's something to consider.
That's another thing, though: there is no one size fits all. Everyone has their own preferences. For example, I generally need to have had a decent conversation of several messages each way before I'll think about organising a real life meeting, but I've talked to other people who have said if a date isn't organised within say 3 messages it's not happening. Just do what you're comfortable with while being respectful of their comfort, and remember: you are not entitled to anyone else's conversation (nor they yours). All you can do is extend an invitation that they may or may not accept.The Iron Avatarist Hall of Fame!
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2015-06-29, 05:58 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2007
Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVI. Status: It's Complicated
So. Yeah. Spoilered for sob story:
SpoilerRecently got out of an abusive marriage. Shoulda gotten out years ago. Shoulda gotten out the first time she told me to my face that she couldn't comfort me when I was upset because I was so pathetic it was all she could do not to attack me. Shoulda, but didn't - but now I'm out, at least, and she's a thousand miles away.
But as it turns out, marrying your high school sweetheart after having precisely no other relationships leaves you with a really freaking crappy body of dating experience.
I seriously have no idea how to get back onto the market. Most of the local social avenues - by which I mean bars, bars, more bars, and also bars - are foreign territory to me and in any event I'm broke. I can talk to romantic interests without turning into a stuttering idiot but I never quite figured out the line between 'expressing interest' and 'coming on way too strong' and as a result I don't make the attempt at all 'cause, well, ruining friendships (and, in the case of the gentlemen, getting the crap beat out of me). If I can get to the first date stage I'm pretty sure I have it handled from there, between good advice from friends/family and having, y'know, functional human friendships to compare to, but I honestly have no clue how to get to that stage.
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2015-06-29, 06:19 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2013
- Location
- Madrid, kingdom of Spain
- Gender
Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVI. Status: It's Complicated
Oh, thanks, i'll create an account in three weeks or a month from now, so be sure i'll PM you for some extra advice :)
Muchas gracias!!
EDIT: thanks for the female point of view, Serpentine, it is the most important point of view
p.s. creepy old sex dungeon??? .. my God, there are some dark horrors in the internet that even Lovecraft couldn't imagineLast edited by Spanish_Paladin; 2015-06-29 at 06:25 AM.
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2015-06-29, 07:37 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2006
- Location
- Dinosaur Museum aw yisss.
- Gender
Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVI. Status: It's Complicated
The best/worst bit is he looked like Santa...
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2015-06-29, 07:48 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
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2015-06-29, 08:40 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVI. Status: It's Complicated
Yes, good precision. When I say my messages are "very long", I'm saying that they are, relative to the median male-to-female online dating site message, which consists of either three characters ("hey") or two ("hi").
Don't write a book. You'll come off as weird / creepy / desperate. Plus, as Serpentine says, given the asymmetry, with messages piling up in women's accounts, your message can easily get dismissed as TL;DR since there are so many alternatives.
On the other hand, I suppose that if you're naturally extremely verbose, an extremely long message might be a good way to make a selection for a girl who shares that with you. Someone like Serpentine may say "meh, too long... I'm not reading that, next!" but that's not someone you want! ;)Last edited by lio45; 2015-06-29 at 08:44 AM.
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2015-06-29, 09:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2013
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- Madrid, kingdom of Spain
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2015-06-29, 09:25 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVI. Status: It's Complicated
Does OkCupid (or other dating sites now) have a "poke" system? I don't recall which one I had used in the past but it did have a system like this. Was sort of an interesting opener in that if I didn't get a poke back, I knew the person wasn't interested and I didn't have to bother with a message. Now, that said this is from a guy's point of view. One can imagine girls might have been getting tons of these, though perhaps it would also reduce the one liner messages. Still seems like a quick thumbs up/thumbs down metric that could make things even easier than they currently are. Maybe it was a disliked system though and newer dating sites don't have anything similar.
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2015-06-29, 09:41 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVI. Status: It's Complicated
If I ran an online dating site I'd really try to design the most efficient mechanism possible for quick screening of guys by girls.
Ideally, you'd want that for each guy, the "pool of all girls on the site" gets narrowed down to "the pool of all girls on the site who'd consider replying to you" as soon as possible.
I know a friend had a dating app that will do just this... it detects online singles within a x radius around your geographic location, but only shows you what's been mutually approved by initial screening (which, IIRC, was something like you see the profile pics showing up in a row, finger swipe to the left if no, finger swipe to the right if yes).Offer good while supplies last. Two to a customer. Each item sold separately. Batteries not included. Mileage may vary. All sales are final. Allow six weeks for delivery. Some items not available. Some assembly required. Some restrictions may apply. All entries become our property. Employees not eligible. Entry fees not refundable. Local restrictions apply. Void where prohibited. Except in Indiana.
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2015-06-29, 10:02 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
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2015-06-29, 10:40 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2014
- Location
- Hell
- Gender
Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVI. Status: It's Complicated
That sounds an awful lot like Tinder, which isn't so much a dating app as a casual hook up app. And also I would think encourages the problem of guys just straight up asking for sexual favors/and in general being creepy/rapey about it; the internet is full of examples speciaffically related to Tinder.
Last edited by Talar; 2015-06-29 at 10:41 AM.
"A man once said do not meddle in the affairs of wizards for they are subtle and quick to anger. Tolkien had half of that right. **** subtlety." ~ Harry Dresden
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2015-06-29, 10:51 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
- Gender
Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVI. Status: It's Complicated
rule 34 comes to mind.. but I'm NOT googling that one!
a woman receives hundreds of mail contacts, most of them oneliners or copy paste contacts.. Where Pokes of one or the other sort are a thing, they receive thousands of them.
In other words, pokes are the next worst thing.. the most common reaction to being poked on a website that allows for mail contact or has a chat feature is "wow.. this guy couldn't even be bothered to contact me properly.. I bet he's poking anything that moves"
Poking is the most meat-market-y option you have, and many women recognise it as such.
on a separate note, if the website has a public area, by which I mean a forum (OKcupid does not), it pays to be active there, because you gain visibility and a modicum of good reputation (unless you act like a moron on it)... On most social/dating websites, when I had a chance to be active on the forum, doing so has paid dividends with the occasional out of the blue contact by one or the other woman commenting on my posts on whatever subject was debated.
As for length of your profile, some women want it short and to the point but still informative, others don't mind reading a wall of text.. you'll never please everybody.. You could look at it as something that reduces your chances even further, or as something that points the right kind of woman in your direction... so don't neglect to work on your profile and make it reflect who you are accurately.
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2015-06-29, 11:47 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVI. Status: It's Complicated
I guess it depends on the woman in question. There are certainly those who do think that way. There are others who do not. For those who do simply see it as a quick sorting function, it seems to work well enough. It is used to indicate possible interest. Instead of needing to search through the entire site, you now have a subset to work with. I mean I used to check the pokes I got before general browsing just because you know the person already has at least a inkling of interest.
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2015-06-29, 12:08 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
- Gender
Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVI. Status: It's Complicated
If I got "poked" I would just ignore it on principle. A "poke" gives no evidence that the other person even glanced at my profile, so there's no point for me to go to the effort of looking to see if we're even remotely compatible. I already know I'm pretty. At least demonstrate that you've done more than look at my avatar and clicked "poke".
Jude P.
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2015-06-30, 06:46 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2006
- Location
- Dinosaur Museum aw yisss.
- Gender
Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVI. Status: It's Complicated
Oh God, please no.
Okcupid does have a "liking" system (which used to be a star rating system but they changed it), where if you "like" someone and then they "like" you then you both get a message saying "you like each other! You should send a message." I don't mind that system, although they have implemented a tinder style sect section now that I think dilutes it somewhat.
Actually, Okcupid does have a forum, or it did last time I looked for it. It's just a bit tricky to find.
That last bit is how I view mine - my profile is pretty awful for a dating site profile, but part of the point is to filter out the people who would have a problem with the things in it.
Haaaaaaa. If you'd seen my profile you'd know that's not the issue XD I'm totally fine with those messages (usually) and will fully intend to write a proper response. The problem is I'm lazy and forgetful.
My rough guide for an opening message is somewhere between one REALLY GOOD sentence that asks a specific and relevant question that will open up a larger conversation, to maybe 2 paragraphs, maybe 3 if they're small.
And please, PLEASE don't demand to know why someone didn't reply to your first message or whinge at them. That might prompt a message from me, but it won't be a nice one.The Iron Avatarist Hall of Fame!
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2015-07-01, 02:36 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
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- Xin-Shalast
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Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVI. Status: It's Complicated
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2015-07-03, 01:41 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
- Location
- The Icy North
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Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVI. Status: It's Complicated
I prefer to think less in terms of paragraphs and more in terms of hooks. My personal rule of thumb is 2-3 things that the other person can respond to in some way: a question, an observation, etc. Ideally one should be enough, but if you choose a subject the recipient finds boring, that's no good.
Also, profile pictures, profile pictures, profile pictures. Spend more time on your pictures than your text (though of course don't neglect that either). It has been consistently shown that good photos are the best recipe for succes. If you can, try to include a hobby in there. Something that says a little more than "I'm pretty/handsome".
And in general, don't be afraid to show your more controversial sides. It's generally better to appeal strongly to a few people than to appeal moderately to many people. Own your weirdnesses.
Play the numbers game. More messages are much better than fewer. Another personal rule of thumb for me is to never spend more than 10 minutes on each message (and I'm sure some people will tell me that's still a lot). And that's on queer OKC where the response rate is so much better. But it's still a good way to avoid over-investing in something that's unlikely to return, and a good way to avoid bitterness and burnout.
This is where the template idea comes in handy. Having a rough idea of e.g. "greeting - observation on shared stuff - question to profile topic - goodbye" makes it easier to work fast.
And this should go without saying, but don't complain in either profile or opening message. Complaining about your dating luck is neither cute nor funny. Don't lay out your dealbreakers unless they're very unusual. Don't do any variation on "I never thought I'd have to go online..." which implicitly insults everyone reading your profile. Be very, very careful about self-depreciating humor - it so easily sounds serious. If in doubt, ask trusted friends (or this thread) to review.
I really wish I didn't have to mention all that, but you'd be surprised.
Good luck out there!
*hugs*
I don't have any good advice, but I want to wish you good luck and say that I hope you remember to take the time (and the help) you need to breathe and heal before really throwing yourself back out there. You deserve to get a loving, respectful and kind partner the next time around.Spoiler
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2015-07-04, 05:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2007
Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVI. Status: It's Complicated
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2015-07-06, 03:26 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2006
- Location
- Unfriend Zone
Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVI. Status: It's Complicated
Mostly just a vent session.
Spoiler
I'm extremely frustrated with dating and my lack of tangible progress.
It's been more than two years since I was in a relationship and almost three years since my relationship was fulfilling.
I tried something long distance with an old friend that I feel would be just about perfect for me - and vice versa - but that appears to have fizzled without an explanation. We used to text back and forth every day and, now, she hasn't replied to a text message in over two weeks. Meanwhile, she's spent 2-4 hours every day liking, sharing, commenting, and arguing with people on facebook (she uses the internet exclusively on her phone). She hasn't quite broken off contact, since we still interact superficially on facebook, but it seems I should just accept that she doesn't miss me enough to bother texting any more.
None of my friends know anyone who'd be a compatible date for me so I've been exploring my options with online dating, but that hasn't amounted to much, either. I have profiles on OkC, Match, gk2gk, and PoF. Between them, there's maybe a handful of women withing 250-500 miles that see at all promising. Of those, the ones I've sent messages to haven't responded and the others are, honestly, a bit of a departure from an ideal match. For instance, while it's not outside the realm of possibility for me, 6'5" tall, to date someone who's 5'1", it does present some hurdles (and I've, understandably, been rejected before because I'm "too tall").
Long distance doesn't bother me too much, but I'd like to be able to actually be in the same room with my date more than once or twice in a year. Ideally, we'd at least be living in the same town in the near future. Because I'm currently working a good job and I'm buying a house (closing August 3rd), it's not really practical for me to relocate.
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2015-07-06, 03:52 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2009
- Location
- Arizona
- Gender
Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVI. Status: It's Complicated
So I've been trying to move on from what happened earlier, but unfortunately it seems everyone else here is either taken or not interested.
And at the same time, the mental connection I have with this person is very rare; I've only experienced it with maybe one other person ever. She and I have managed to remain friends and we're both very happy together.
As such, since her main objection from before was the time commitment, I've been thinking about asking her to try things again, but as more of a casual "let's do something one night a week and keep it fairly low-key." I don't know if this will work or if at worst she might perceive this as something creepy. I also have suspicions that she was afraid of her own feelings towards me earlier which could present issues, but I still feel I have to try. What do you think?LGBTitp
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2015-07-06, 07:54 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
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2015-07-06, 09:16 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVI. Status: It's Complicated
Offer good while supplies last. Two to a customer. Each item sold separately. Batteries not included. Mileage may vary. All sales are final. Allow six weeks for delivery. Some items not available. Some assembly required. Some restrictions may apply. All entries become our property. Employees not eligible. Entry fees not refundable. Local restrictions apply. Void where prohibited. Except in Indiana.
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2015-07-06, 10:31 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2006
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- Unfriend Zone
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2015-07-06, 11:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVI. Status: It's Complicated
So your "up to 500 miles" radius includes at least a couple of the following metro areas: Chicago, Milwaukee, MN Twin Cities, STL, KC...
"There's only a handful of women that I'd consider date-worthy in the entire Chicago CSA" -- with that kind of attitude, no wonder you're still single :P lol
In all seriousness though, from what you said, I have the feeling you're extremely picky. It's fine, but don't complain that you're staying single forever. Why not accept to date Mrs Right Now instead?
Plus, you say you're currently "extremely frustated by your lack of dating progress". Seems to me that some dating, even if outside that maybe-a-handful-in-several-million select pool of candidates, would be nice progress, and would help alleviate the frustration. You're not committing to a lifetime with that person, only dating.Last edited by lio45; 2015-07-06 at 11:31 PM.
Offer good while supplies last. Two to a customer. Each item sold separately. Batteries not included. Mileage may vary. All sales are final. Allow six weeks for delivery. Some items not available. Some assembly required. Some restrictions may apply. All entries become our property. Employees not eligible. Entry fees not refundable. Local restrictions apply. Void where prohibited. Except in Indiana.
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2015-07-07, 01:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2009
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- Arizona
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Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVI. Status: It's Complicated
Except that this wasn't a simple case of asked, got rejected because reasons. We actually did date briefly before she apparently got scared of what she was having to commit to and left. Also, she was never angry at me and never tried to push me away; we remained very good friends afterward. She even said at one point that she wasn't completely opposed to seeing what happened later on.
The impression I got was that she was genuinely interested, but couldn't make a major time commitment.Last edited by Dire Moose; 2015-07-07 at 01:22 AM.
LGBTitp
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2015-07-07, 01:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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Re: Relationship Woes and Advice XXVI. Status: It's Complicated