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2019-03-22, 12:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark
Also, as far as size goes, it seems pretty obvious that the ideal criterion is this:
(where anything with an asterisk next to it would get determined by thread consensus; my opinion is irrelevant there and I won't even bother to form one.)
- MitD, himself, can't be larger than [Large/Huge]* because that's obviously what he visually is in the comic;
- MitD, himself, can't be smaller than [Medium/Large]* because that's obviously what he visually is in the comic;
- MitD's creature type can be any size as long as there's the possibility that a child (which MitD could very well be, with in comic evidence to support this) of the species would fit within the above size limits.
So, if for example the entry for any Colossal creature specifies that newborns are born Gargantuan, then that creature is unarguably out; it does not fit the FBS size criterion.
Basically, the point is, the size criterion should be applied to MitD himself, not his creature type, given how strong a case can be made for MitD being smaller than his dad / being a child.Offer good while supplies last. Two to a customer. Each item sold separately. Batteries not included. Mileage may vary. All sales are final. Allow six weeks for delivery. Some items not available. Some assembly required. Some restrictions may apply. All entries become our property. Employees not eligible. Entry fees not refundable. Local restrictions apply. Void where prohibited. Except in Indiana.
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2019-03-22, 12:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark
Wow, that thread has exploded while I was away
I'd like to add voting option I: Add "must not be an embodiment of Chaos" requirement.
Not because I want that requirement myself, but because I feel it would be needed if option D is added for symmetry.
BTW, as far as I understand it, the voting system works, but it is more complicated to vote in than other systems. You have to rank your choices and you must not forget a possible subset of your preferred set. E. g. if you want C, D, F and H independent of each other, you have to vote for 15 different sets of choices...Ares - Music and sounds system for roleplaying
Avatar by Rich Burlew.
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2019-03-22, 12:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2019-03-22, 12:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 1
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2019-03-22, 01:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2004
Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2019-03-22, 01:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2016
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- Elemental Plane of Water
Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark
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2019-03-22, 01:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2019-03-22, 01:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2006
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Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark
I think you raise a valid point here, albeit one that I don't know the best way to convey. I think the size limit should be lifted on MitD's *race* but needs to remain in place for MitD *himself*. So, if he's a Huge-sized (probably at the small end of Huge) spawn of a race that's normally Gargantuan, that's possible. But I would not support the assertion that MitD himself can be Colossal.
"You are what you do. Choose again and change." - Miles Vorkosigan
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2019-03-22, 01:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark
Last edited by Vulkos; 2019-03-22 at 01:24 PM.
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2019-03-22, 01:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark
I agree he's unlikely to be an embodiment of anything (wouldn't have been recruited by Team Evil if he were an embodiment of Good, wouldn't act so Lawfully on occasion if he were an embodiment of Chaos, etc.) but it seems pretty clear to me the only real, firm dealbreaker would be Evil (given how he's become friends with the paladin and started sabotaging of his own team).
Offer good while supplies last. Two to a customer. Each item sold separately. Batteries not included. Mileage may vary. All sales are final. Allow six weeks for delivery. Some items not available. Some assembly required. Some restrictions may apply. All entries become our property. Employees not eligible. Entry fees not refundable. Local restrictions apply. Void where prohibited. Except in Indiana.
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2019-03-22, 01:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark
Indeed. And, like with everything else, exceptions with solid reasoning behind it would still be accepted. But the onus is then on the person proposing it: if you can prove that a colossal creature has small enough children that can have the strength and spellcasting abilities of an adult, then I'll likely accept it, just as I'd accept an undead creature that needed to eat stew or moldy burgers and sleep. But in the absence of evidence, as per the current requirements, any base creature larger than Huge is not in consideration for FBS status.
Grey WolfLast edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2019-03-22 at 01:43 PM.
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2019-03-22, 01:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark
Yeah, the problem is that it seems pretty difficult to get this exact memo to everyone at the same time.
Note that all three of the participants in this exact subdiscussion (Crusher, Vulkos, lio45) have "B as a standalone option" ranked before "A" in their votes, so we "aren't the problem", if I may say so.
I think that regardless of the results, it makes some sense to start behaving as if the size criterion applies only to MitD himself, i.e. any suggestion that plausibly allows a child of its species to meet the size criterion is deemed to meet it.Offer good while supplies last. Two to a customer. Each item sold separately. Batteries not included. Mileage may vary. All sales are final. Allow six weeks for delivery. Some items not available. Some assembly required. Some restrictions may apply. All entries become our property. Employees not eligible. Entry fees not refundable. Local restrictions apply. Void where prohibited. Except in Indiana.
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2019-03-22, 01:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2019
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Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark
3Power, your statement calling me an alt has, i believe, been removed, but whose alt do you think I am and why?
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2019-03-22, 01:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark
That, in a nutshell, is my problem with it.
And Aveline replies "no problem, we're under the assumption that everyone is mentally organized enough to make sure they'll cast an individual vote for every single of the possible 15 permutations of the things they'd want implemented; anyone who doesn't do that, it's their problem and their loss, the outcome may not always reflect their will", which I must say, is fair enough, and true.
So... yes, "it works". :)Offer good while supplies last. Two to a customer. Each item sold separately. Batteries not included. Mileage may vary. All sales are final. Allow six weeks for delivery. Some items not available. Some assembly required. Some restrictions may apply. All entries become our property. Employees not eligible. Entry fees not refundable. Local restrictions apply. Void where prohibited. Except in Indiana.
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2019-03-22, 01:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2019
Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark
As I understand it, the FBS size criterion was composed on the basis that it was the cap of plausible size that MitD's species could have because if his species were larger, he would be too small, even as a child. So it is based on the MitD's maximum possible size, then extrapolated to his species. And while the size criterion could be turned onto the MitD himself directly, we don't have specified size for juveniles of almost any species. Because of that, I think it's more useful to base it on the adult size, as it's what will actually be available. From what I know, almost nothing says what size its children are, although I could be wrong on that.
*edit* I see this may be completely unnecessary at this point. Clearly I type too slowly.Last edited by TheSchleus; 2019-03-22 at 01:40 PM.
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2019-03-22, 01:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark
I'll be the problem if I want to be! You can't stop me!
Yeah, this thread has been like that, lately. Historically, you could spend hours or even days working on a post and it didn't really matter. Lately, you need to be a speed-typist to get points in while they're still relevant.Last edited by Crusher; 2019-03-22 at 01:43 PM.
"You are what you do. Choose again and change." - Miles Vorkosigan
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2019-03-22, 01:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2013
Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark
you are making a mountain out of a small grain of sand. I didn't had to break my mind with all that in order to vote, heck I just told in the pm what I wanted to vote and why to Greywolf and he did an explendid work out of it. kudos to him! now I'm only waiting to see how it resolves and if a new comic strip happens. ^^
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2019-03-22, 01:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 1
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2019-03-22, 01:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2019
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Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark
wanting to know everything is a blessing and a curse
mostly just a curse
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2019-03-22, 01:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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2019-03-22, 01:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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2019-03-22, 01:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark
Unless you don't want them in combination with B or E. But I admit, it's probably academic because apparently most people don't vote for many options anyway.
The latter, yes. But we don't have an embodiment of Good or Law or Neutrality in the FBS category anyway.Ares - Music and sounds system for roleplaying
Avatar by Rich Burlew.
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2019-03-22, 01:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark
So it seems that everybody is on the same page in the end............
I guess, for everyone to be satisfied, maybe consider slightly modifying the text of the OP to better match what you just said here, GW? i.e. MitD himself is clearly no greater than Huge (I'd say Large, but I can live with Huge if that's the thread consensus; doesn't change much since the base creature - MitD's dad - is likely larger anyway), but the size restriction on the base creature is looser and on a kinda case-by-case basis.Offer good while supplies last. Two to a customer. Each item sold separately. Batteries not included. Mileage may vary. All sales are final. Allow six weeks for delivery. Some items not available. Some assembly required. Some restrictions may apply. All entries become our property. Employees not eligible. Entry fees not refundable. Local restrictions apply. Void where prohibited. Except in Indiana.
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2019-03-22, 01:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark
Grey_Wolf_c's posts have really clarified things for me: The vote targets the operational level of making the updates to the initial posts, rather than the tactical level of what updates should be made (as I had assumed).
That's why sets of options are distinct from their subsets (to ensure there's a majority in favor of actually doing the combination), why a single option is chosen (no opportunity for conflicting-as-in-wasted effort from different initiatives), why there's a "no change" option (a special case representing "making changes is a waste of everyone's time"); and IRV even has a completely natural way to handle if no one's willing to put in the effort for the option voted for (discard the option and take the next, just as if a candidate bowed out). And iterating over the remaining options after one change has been done is still a possibility.
It's not how I do things...but introducing a new subcategory to the Index of the Giant's Comments would only require me adding an element to my layout file representing the new subcategory, and updating some entry elements to be in the new subcategory; my Python script handles all the spoiler/table/BBCode/page-breaks/table-of-contents, then I just copy/paste into my posts. It's minimal overhead and I can trivially do it all myself; It's not really comparable to digging through monster manuals to check sizes and strength scores for all the proposed entries to see which need to go where (especially since it's not fair to assume universal access to the relevant information).FeytouchedBanana eldritch disciple avatar by...me!
The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas
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2019-03-22, 02:09 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2019-03-22, 02:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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2019-03-22, 02:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark
Did you know you're pretty quotable, Peelee? (And I meant that as a compliment.)
Offer good while supplies last. Two to a customer. Each item sold separately. Batteries not included. Mileage may vary. All sales are final. Allow six weeks for delivery. Some items not available. Some assembly required. Some restrictions may apply. All entries become our property. Employees not eligible. Entry fees not refundable. Local restrictions apply. Void where prohibited. Except in Indiana.
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2019-03-22, 02:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 1
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2019-03-22, 03:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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2019-03-22, 04:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD XII: This Space Intentionally Left Dark
I get why you are saying it for symmetry purposes, but MitD has shown plenty of chaotic aspects (assuming he perceives Xykon and RC as being some sort of authority). If you are suggesting this because RC would prefer a Lawful party member, then keep in mind that he prefers being Evil (or at least non-good) over that by a sizable margin.
I'm not going against your desire to have that in place, I am saying that the suggestion itself is not as well founded as the "must not be an embodiment of Evil" is.