Improved Monster Classes IV (Closed)

[TheGeckoKing]

After a chat with Gorgon, i've removed the Ultroloth, so he can do it himself. I'll scan my books and see what I can brew up later. As of now, I'm too annoyed to make anything.

[Crafty Cultist]

Werebear
Thanks for your support Crafty Cultist.
Skills look good.
For bear alternate form speed, you might list what the Bear's speed is.
40 feet base land speed, isn't it?
Thanks for adding the Alternate form spoiler!
Forager's nose is a fantastic name, and a great ability.
Bear Hug: Fun! Uhm, but a bit strong. I'd probably bump it down to 2d6 damage + 2d6 per size category above medium. But that's just me. A (And only in Bear Form) caveat for the damage part would be nice. Great example of an ability that has benefits in more than one form, but offers great incentive to be in bear form! Love the suffocation bit, I'd toss in a mention if the creature has the opportunity to take a large breath of air (I assume no) because it changes how fast they suffocate.
Indominable: Same suggestion of a (And only in Hybrid Form) reminder. Also, fun! Active defense! I like it. The diehard bit is in all forms, yes? May want to specify either way. Also I believe it is spelled “Indomitable.”
Looks like a very fun class to me, and has a very Bear feel.

speed added

Bear hug damage has been reduced. Taking a large breath would generally have no effect as the bear hug forces the air from the creatures lungs, so holding its breath will generally not have an effect.

Indomitable has been reworded to make it clear that the diehard feat fuctions in all forms, while the other abilities only work in hybrid form.

Next up is the rewrite of Werewolf. Any suggestions for the forth level ability? I like alpha wolf, but it doesn't fit in the "hybrid ability" criteria.

Also on the subject of lycanthropes, the third level ability score increase originally represented the transformation begining to affect the character's mind. Generally this would be a wisdom bonus to represent sharpened insticts. While there is room for variation(a werefox might get a bonus to intellegence to represent increased cunning, while a wereeagle might get a charisma bonus to represent its majesty) I think the third level ability bonus should apply to a mental ability. Feel free to do otherwise if you disagree, these are just my thoughts.

[Mystic Muse]

Well, I needed a break from Illurien and the 4e Necromancer so I did a little editing to the Pyroclastic Dragon.

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HD: d12
{TABLE]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Feature
1 | +1 | +2|+0 |+2 |Pyroclastic Body, Produce Flame, Arcane blood, +1 strength
2| +2| +3|+0 |+3 | Keen senses, Pyroclastic Breath,
3| +3| +3|+1| +3| Blindsense 60 feet, Sound Burst
4| +4| +4| +1|+4 | Wings, +10 Speed +1 Constitution
5| +5| +4| +1| +4| Growth, Magma Body
6| +6| +5|+2 |+5 | Pyrotechnics, Shatter, +1 Charisma
7| +7| +5| +2| +5| Destruction Breath, See no Evil
8| +8| +6| +2| +6| Wall of Fire, Improved Sunder
9| +9| +6|+3 |+6| Growth, Tail Slap, +1 strength, +1 Constitution
10| +10| +7|+3 |+7 | Shout, Wall of Stone, +1 Charisma
11| +11| +7| +3|+7 | Pyroclastic Scales, Destruction Body, +10 Speed
12| +12| +8| +4|+8 |Growth, Frightful presence, Crush, +1 strength, +1 Constitution
13| +13| +8| +4| +8| Hear No Evil, Gehenna Sunder, +1 Charisma
14| +14 | +9| +4| +9| Power Word Stun, Volcano +1 strength, +1 Constitution
15| +15 | +9| +5| +9| Fire Storm, Pyroclastic Magic
16| +16 | +10| +5| +10| Incendiary Cloud, Pyroclastic Assault, +1 Charisma
17| +17| +10| +5| +10|Meteor Swarm, +1 strength, +1 Constitution, +1 Charisma
18| +18| +11| +6| +11| Growth, Tail Sweep, +1 strength, +1 Constitution
19| +19 | +11| +6| +11|Immobile, +1 strength, +1 Constitution, +1 Charisma
20| +20| +12| +6| +12|Magma Body, Eruption
[/table]

4 Skill points+int per level, quadruple at 1st level. Class skills: Concentration, climb, jump, spot, listen, appraise, bluff, intimidate, Knowledge(any), spellcraft.


Proficiencies: a Pyroclastic dragon isn't proficient with any armor or weapons, besides his own natural weapons

Pyroclastic BodyThe Pyroclastic dragon loses all other racial bonuses, and gains Dragon traits, Bite 1d8 damage, 2 claws for 1d6 damage each, a 40 foot base land speed and medium size, plus a climb and burrow speed equal to half his land speed each. The Pyroclastic dragon has wings but they're too weak to do anything for now. His claws are capable of fine manipulation and can be used for anything a human hand could do.

The Pyroclastic dragon also gets a natural armor bonus equal to 1+Constitution modifier Whenever the Pyroclastic dragon grows one size category, his natural armor increases by a further 1.

The Pyroclastic dragon has resistance to Sonic damage equal to its total hit dice. In addition to this, The Pyroclastic dragon has complete immunity to mundane fire and resistance to magical fire equal to its total hit dice.


Pyroclastic Magic: The Pyroclastic dragon can use the following SLAs the following amount of times per day.

Level 1: Produce Flame 1/day per HD

Level 3: Sound Burst 1/day per HD

Level 6: Pyrotechnics and Shatter 1/day per 2 HD each

Level 8: Wall of Fire 1/day per 2 HD

Level 10:Shout, Wall of Stone, 1/day per 2 HD each

Level 14: Power Word, Stun, 1/day per 3 HD

Level 15:Fire Storm, 1/day per 4 HD

Level 16:Incendiary Cloud, 1/day per 5 HD

Level 17:Meteor Swarm, 1/day per 6 HD

Ability Increase: The pyroclastic dragon gains the following bonus at the following levels

{table]Level | Ability Bonus
1 | +1 strength
4| +1 Constitution
6| +1 Charisma
9|+1 strength, +1 Constitution
10|+1 Charisma
12| +1 strength, +1 Constitution
13| +1 Charisma
14| +1 strength, +1 Constitution
16| +1 Charisma
17| +1 strength, +1 Constitution, +1 Charisma
18| +1 strength, +1 Constitution
19| +1 strength, +1 Constitution, +1 Charisma
[/table]
For a total of +7 strength, +7 Constitution and +6 Charisma at 20th level.



Arcane Blood: A Pyroclastic Dragon receives spells known and spells per day as a bard of same level, but he casts as a sorcerer and takes his spells known from the sorcerer/wizard spell list.

If it multi-classes as a bard it's spell casting increases as a bard.
If it multi-classes as a sorcerer it counts as already having sorcerer casting depending on it's dragon level, as shown on the following table.

{table]Dragon Level | Virtual sorcererr casting
1|-
2|1
3|2
4|3
5|4
6|5
7|6
8|6
9|7
10|8
11|8
12|9
13|10
14|10
15|11
16|12
17|12
18|13
19|13
20|13
[/table]

So for example a dragon 2 who takes a level of sorcerer would count as already having 1 level of sorcerer and gains the spell slots and spells known that a sorcerer gains when leveling from level 1 to 2, but not the spell slots and spells known from the 1st level of sorcerer. He would get the familiar ability, but dragon levels wouldn't count for it.

A dragon 18 who takes a level of sorcerer would count as having 14 levels of sorcerer(13+1) and gain the spell slots and spells known that a sorcerer gains when leveling from level 13 to 14, but not the spell slots and spells known that a sorcerer gets from level 1 to 13. He would get the familiar ability, but dragon levels wouldn't count for it.

His Caster level remains equal to his full HD when multiclassing to sorcerer.

If a dragon takes a casting Prestige Class, it may choose to advance his casting as that of a sorcerer. So a Dragon 10/Loremaster 10 would cast as a 18th level sorcerer (he would still receive spell slots and spells known from a bard 10 from the first 10 dragon levels and then the spell slots and spells known from a sorcerer 11-18 for the loremaster levels)

Keen Senses: At second level, the Pyroclastic dragon's senses become far stronger. The Pyroclastic dragon sees four times as well as a human in shadowy illumination and twice as well in normal light. It also has darkvision out to 120 feet

Pyroclastic Breath: At second level the Pyroclastic dragon gains a breath weapon. The breath weapon is a 30 foot Cone dealing 1d6 damage/HD, half fire and half sonic damage, with a reflex save DC of 10+1/2 HD+Constitution modifier for half an takes 1d4 rounds to recharge. The Cone increases by 5 feet for every extra hit die the dragon gains.

Blindsense: At third level the dragon gains Blindsense as the normal ability, range 60 feet.

Wings: At 4th level The Pyroclastic dragon becomes able to fly at the speed of 10 feet per HD, with poor maneuverability. The maneuverability doesn't increase naturally, but players can take the Savage Species feat that increases it by two steps(stack-able). Each wing can also be now used to deliver a natural attack dealing 1d4 damage.

Speed Increase: At 4th and again at 11th level the pyroclastic dragon gains +10 foot to his base speed.

Growth:At 5th level the Dragon grows to large size. At 12th he grows to huge and at 18th he grows to Gargantuan. His AC, bonus to hit, base damage, grapple and skills change accordingly, but he doesn't get any ability score bonus or penalties.


Tail Slap:At fifth level The Pyroclastic dragon can now make a tail slap attack dealing 1d8 damage(already taking in account large size).


Magma Body: At 5th level, the Pyroclastic dragon body itself starts to change into magma. It gains light fortification and a bonus on saves against poison, stun and polymorph effects equal to his HD.

Destruction Breath: line 130 feet, Creatures hit are reduced to ash unless they succeed on a Fort save DC of 10+1/2 HD+Constitution modifier, 1d4 turns recharge time. Line increases by 10 feet with each extra HD the player takes from here.

See No Evil - The Pyroclastic Dragon is used to dwelling amid exploding geysers of magma. At 7th level, the middling effects of spells such as Pyrotechnics and Glitterdust can simply be shrugged off. The Pyroclastic Dragon is immune to the Blind status effect. It is still affected normally by lighting Conditions and darkness.

Improved Sunder at 8th level the Pyroclastic dragon gains the Improved Sunder feat even if he does not meet the prerequisites.

Pyroclastic Scales. at 11th level the Pyroclastic dragon gains SR equal to his HD+11 and gains DR/magic and good equal to half his HD.

Destruction body: At 11th level the Pyroclastic dragon deals an additional 1d6 fire damage with each successful natural attack. This extra damage increases one die step for every 3 HD gained from here.

Frightful Presence: at 12th level the dragon gains frightful presence. The ability takes effect automatically whenever the dragon attacks, charges, or flies overhead. Enemies within a radius of 30 feet × half the dragon's level are subject to the effect if they have fewer HD than the dragon. A potentially affected enemy that succeeds on a Will save (DC 10 + ½ dragon’s HD + dragon’s Cha modifier) remains immune to that dragon’s frightful presence for 24 hours. On a failure, enemies with 4 or less HD become panicked for 4d6 rounds and those with 5 or more HD become shaken for 4d6 rounds. Dragons ignore the frightful presence of other dragons.

Hear No Evil - Having spent hundreds of years in Gehenna, hearing the Constantly exploding volcanoes the souls screaming and moaning in despair, the Pyroclastic Dragon is practiced in ignoring what it does not wish to hear. At 13th level it may treat itself as being under the effects of a silence spell when such would be beneficial to it. This is an extraordinary effect and is not suppressed by an anti-magic field.

Gehenna Sunder: At 13th level, In addition to the improved sunder feat, When attempting to sunder an item (Or Construct) the Dragon's weapons count as having a shatter effect upon them. The caster level for the effect is equal to the Dragon's caster level.

Volcano: At 14th level the pyroclastic dragon has sudden bursts of activity. It may take an extra standard or move action on his turn, but after taking it he needs to wait 5 turns before using this ability again.

Pyroclastic Magic: At 15th level, whenever the pyroclastic dragon uses an SLA that would deal fire damage, he may have half the damage dealt be sonic. In addition his caster level for all [Fire] and [Sonic] spells increases by 2, and now ignore any Caster level limits on such spells.


Pyroclastic Assault: At 16th level, the Pyroclastic dragon may charge at an enemy even if there's non worked non-magical ground, earth and/or stone between them, automatically destrengthoying the obstacles. This includes any material trough which the pyroclastic dragon can burrow and Stone Walls. The dragon must still find his opponent’s position trough some mean.


Tail sweep:This special attack allows a dragon of at least Gargantuan size to sweep with its tail as a standard action. The sweep affects a half-circle with a radius of 30 feet (or 40 feet for a Colossal dragon), extending from an intersection on the edge of the dragon’s space in any direction. Creatures within the swept area are affected if they are four or more size categories smaller than the dragon. A tail sweep automatically deals 2d6 plus 1½ times the dragon’s strength bonus (round down). Affected creatures can attempt Reflex saves to take half damage (DC equal to that of the dragon’s breath weapon).

Immobile:The pyroclastic dragon represents the very core of the world. It can ignore any effect that would cause it to move and/or change dimensions against his will.

Volcanic body: The pyroclastic dragon is now fully immune to criticals, poison, stun, and polymorph effects against his will, and is also fully immune to fire and sonic.

Eruption: The Pyroclastic dragons explosions are a sight to behold. It may now take an extra full round action on his turn instead of just an extra partial action. It must wait five turns before using this again.

Changelog and reasoning.

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Well, the entire point of these classes is to allow more concepts right? I thought spellcasting might do that. Before I implemented this however, I tried comparing the Pyroclastic to other dragons, and I think the other dragons have similar abilities that match the Pyroclastic's and they get spellcasting. So, I figured the planar ones should too. In addition, I fixed a couple of spelling errors. If I was wrong about the balance levels, then I apologize for wasting everybody's time.

If people do like the change and think it was in order, then I'll do the same to the Styx dragon.

[Betropper]

Fixed up the Wereraptor a bit according to your suggestions, ChumpLump.

[Kajhera]

Grell

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Grell: A base character class.

Hit Dice: d8

{table]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Class Features
1|+0|+0|+0|+2|Aberrant Body, Electric Nature, Blindsight, Paralyzing Tentacles
2|+1|+0|+0|+3|Improved Grab, Powerful Tentacles, Buoyant, +1 Dex
3|+2|+1|+1|+3|Expert Grappler, Growth, Reach, +1 Con
[/table]

Skill Points: 2+int (x4 at level 1)
Skills: Craft, Hide, Move Silently, Listen, Profession, Spot
Proficiencies: Grell are proficient with their natural attacks and grellcraft weapons.

Features:
Aberrant Body: The grell loses all racial bonuses and gains aberration traits. A grell is a small aberration with speed 20', +5' each level after first. It hovers above the ground, but it must remain within 1' above a solid or liquid surface. This allows it to ignore difficult terrain and move above liquids such as water without difficulty. A grell is blind (though it can still detect enemies with its blindsight ability). A grell is immune to gaze attacks, visual
effects, illusions, and other attack forms that rely on sight. A grell gains natural armor equal to its Con bonus. A grell has 2 tentacles as primary natural weapons (1d3+str) and a bite as a secondary natural weapon with 0' reach (1d4+1/2str). A grell gains 1 tentacle attack every 3 HD after first. Its tentacles are capable of fine manipulation, but can only wield grellcraft weapons. It can speak undercommon and grell as starting languages.

Grell Language: Grell is spoken by a combination of auditory and electrical signals. Grell must be within range of each others' blindsight to employ the electrical part and communicate complex concepts. However, they may communicate simple concepts via either method, auditory being able to travel over a greater distance, and electrical imperceptible to most creatures.

Electric Nature (Ex): A grell gains a bonus on saves against paralysis equal to its HD. It also gains electricity resistance equal to its HD.

Blindsight (Ex): 40', +5' for each hit die after first.

Paralyzing Tentacles (Ex): HDxCon modifier times per day, a grell may paralyze with one or more of its tentacle attacks for a round. Any creature hit by a grell's tentacle must make a Fortitude save or be paralyzed for 1d4 rounds (DC 10 + 1/2HD + Con modifier). Creatures struck by multiple tentacle attacks in the same round do not make multiple saving throws, nor does this take any additional uses; instead, the DC of the save increases by 1 for each additional tentacle that hit in the same round. At 2nd level, when a creature fails his saving throw, he is paralyzed for 1d4+1 rounds; and at 3rd level, a creature that fails his saving throw is paralyzed for 2d4 rounds.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a grell must hit an opponent of its size or smaller with a tentacle attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking attacks of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can constrict.

Powerful Tentacles (Ex): A 2nd-level grell is treated as medium-sized for the purpose of grapple checks. On a successful grapple, a grell constricts and deals 1d4+str points of damage. This damage increases by a step when the grell gains a size category.

Buoyant: A 2nd-level grell is under the effect of a constant feather fall, may levitate itself as the spell to a height of 5'/HD off the ground. At 5HD, it gains a fly speed equal to its base land speed with perfect maneuverability.

Expert Grappler (Ex): Grell gain a +1/2 HD racial bonus on all grapples.

A grell that chooses to grapple with one tentacle and remain ungrappled itself reduces the penalty for such a hold by 1/HD, from the normal -20 penalty. So, for example, a 10th-level grell takes only a -10 penalty on holds using a single tentacle.

A grell may use multiple tentacles in a hold so that the penalty is reduced by another point for each tentacle employed. A 10th-level grell could use 3 tentacles to grapple a single creature at a -7 penalty, and 7 tentacles to grapple another creature at a -3 penalty.

Growth: A 3rd-level grell grows from small to medium, along with the normal non-ability changes associated with such.

Reach: A 3rd-level grell has 10' reach with its tentacle attacks.

Grellcraft Weaponry

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Grellcraft: The grellcraft special quality may be added to any one-handed or light melee weapon. It loses its range increment, if any. Grellcraft weapons cost twice as much to make as their normal counterparts (this includes only the base weapon price, not magic, masterwork, or material costs).

A grellcraft weapon alters one tentacle attack to which it is attached, rather than acting as a wielded weapon. The tentacle's type of damage, damage die, critical threat range, and critical threat multiplier change to match the weapon, and it gains any special properties of the weapon (dealing nonlethal damage, +2 on disarm). It continues to be able to deliver paralysis attempts. A grell wielding a one-handed grellcraft weapon gains an additional 5' of reach with its tentacle attack.

If the attached weapon is a reach weapon, instead add the weapon's reach to the tentacle attack.

Changelog:

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*Clarified some things.
*Changed Electricity Immunity to Electricity Resistance.
*Ctrl-X'ed paralysis immunity.
*Reduced tentacle progression so you are level 9 by the time you get all 10 tentacles.
*Removed simple weapon proficiencies. Feral grell do not use weapons. Subject to change.
--
*Elaborated on grellcraft weaponry.
--
*Recombined Expert Grappler and Skillful Grappler into 3rd-level Expert Grappler.
*Put paralysis immunity back under aberrant body because I'm not sure where else it elegantly fits.
--
*Switched paralysis and electricity resistance into Electric Nature.
*Reinstituted weapon proficiencies.
*Changed Flight.
*Maybe did something else.
--
*Changed Flight, renamed Buoyancy.
*Changed proficiencies.
*Changed grappling bonuses to be based more on HD; tying them to tentacles led to some misconceptions of my intent.
*Gave just a touch more grappling power to the grell when it starts being able to use grappling abilities.
--
*Rephrased as per HD
*Reduced tentacle progression & removed cap
*Reduced grappling progression
*Cut paralysis attempts in half
--
*Changed tentacle attacks to gained every 3HD

[monkman]

Proficiencies: Grell are proficient with their natural attacks and grellcraft simple weapons

.
Grellcraft? is that something from lords of madness(book)?

Features:
Aberrant Body: The grell loses all racial bonuses and gains aberration traits. A grell is a small aberration with fly speed 20' (perfect). A grell is blind. A grell can still detect enemies with its blindsight ability. A grell gains natural armor equal to its Con bonus. A grell has 2 tentacles as primary natural weapons (1d3+str) and a bite as a secondary natural weapon that it can use only against creatures in its space (1d4+1/2str). A grell gains 2 tentacle attacks each level after first, until it has 10 tentacle attacks. They are immune to electricity and paralysis.

What does *in it's space*mean exacly?
Tentacles are not Ok,10d3 at level 5 seems quite High but what happens if he starts using weapons?.Can it use fine manipulation?
No immunity to electricty and paralysis.Give it resitance equal to Hd and put it in another ability.

Blindsight (Ex): 40', +5' for each subsequent hit die. A grell can be effectively blinded only by both being deafened and having its electrical sense impaired. If subject to an effect dealing 5 electricity damage / hit die, it must make a DC 15 Fortitude save or have that aspect of its sense impaired for 1d4 rounds. If subject to an effect dealing 10 electricity damage/hit die, it must make a DC 20 fortitude save or have that aspect of its sense impaired for 2d4 rounds

.
Take out the weakness, It makes the creature itself weaker and it more complicated.

Skillful Grappler (Ex): Grell employ their tentacles to excellent effect in grapples, using their smaller ones to assist. They gain a +1 racial bonus on all grapples/tentacle they possess.

Wait does this mean, I get a bonus on grapple checks equal to the number of tentacles i have?Example: Im level 3 and have 6 tentacles,Do i get a +6 bonus to grapple checks?

[

i]Paralyzing Tentacles (Ex):[/i] 2xHDxCon MODIFIER times per day, a grell may paralyze with one or more of its tentacle attacks for a round. Any creature hit by a grell's tentacle must make a Fortitude save or be paralyzed for 1d4 rounds (DC 10 + 1/2HD + Con MODIFIER ). Creatures struck by multiple tentacle attacks in the same round do not make multiple saving throws; instead, the DC of the save increases by 1 for each additional tentacle that hit in the same round. At 2nd level, the duration improves to 1d4+1 rounds, and at 3rd level, the duration improves to 2d4 rounds.

Forgot to put the modifier After Con.

At 2nd level, the duration improves to 1d4+1 rounds

At second level, when a creatures fails his throw, He is paralised for 1d4+1 rounds.(Something like this would work,The way you wrote was bad(no offence)(But ive done worse))

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a grell must hit an opponent of its size or smaller with a tentacle attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking attacks of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can constrict.

Just give them the Improved grapple feat.

Constrict (Ex): On a successful grapple, a grell deals 1d4+str points of damage.

Is this per tentacle?Beacuse at only 1d4,No one would ever use this.

Expert Grappler (Ex): A grell that chooses to grapple with one tentacle and remain ungrappled itself takes a -10 penalty on its attacks rather than the normal -20.

First it called an Hold, Second what dose it do if your not in a hold?

I think that it's a good first attempt.It's got prombles but evirone has to start somewhere.

[Kajhera]

.
Grellcraft? is that something from lords of madness(book)?

Yeah. Made particularly for grell tentacles. I'm not sure what it impacts aside from shortspears, should probably do more research.

What does *in it's space*mean exacly?

Generally, grappling, or so forth. Has the reach of a tiny-sized creature, which phrases it about that way.

Tentacles are not Ok,10d3 at level 5 seems quite High but what happens if he starts using weapons?.Can it use fine manipulation?

Tentacles are kinda the whole point of playing a grell. Can perhaps reduce the progress, but they definitely need to get 10 tentacles by level 10, and preferably quicker. Also, they need to start out with at least 2. Any ideas for a prettier progression?

Tentacles are capable of fine manipulation but need specially-crafted weapons, aforementioned grellcraft most likely. Need to work it out. They have no trouble being wizards, any case.

... They also have different item slots but I wasn't sure I wanted to just copy those over.

No immunity to electricty and paralysis.Give it resitance equal to Hd and put it in another ability.

Sure. Err. Electricity resistance and ... put paralysis immunity in an ability?

Take out the weakness, It makes the creature itself weaker and it more complicated.

Yeah I ditched it before you posted.

Wait does this mean, I get a bonus on grapple checks equal to the number of tentacles i have?Example: Im level 3 and have 6 tentacles,Do i get a +6 bonus to grapple checks?

Precisely.

Forgot to put the modifier After Con.

Shall fix.

At second level, when a creatures fails his throw, He is paralised for 1d4+1 rounds.(Something like this would work,The way you wrote was bad(no offence)(But ive done worse))

Shall fix.

Just give them the Improved grapple feat.

Will consider. Improved grab is much more monstrous but also pretty strong.

Is this per tentacle?Beacuse at only 1d4,No one would ever use this.

It's per grapple. So you could constrict with a tentacle on each hold you got. And it does increase with your size - I should note that.

First it called an Hold, Second what dose it do if your not in a hold?

I broke apart the ability into +1/tentacle on grapples and +10 on holds. So... nothing in particular?

I think that it's a good first attempt.It's got prombles but evirone has to start somewhere.

Thanks. I'll keep working on it. Wanted someone to do it for me but impatience won out over laziness. Would appreciate elaboration on some of your points, not sure if you're criticizing or asking for clarity.

[Kajhera]

Deconstructing the shortspear, it looks like a grellcraft item costs twice as much as normal, but this doesn't impact its masterwork or magical price whatsoever.

It can also deliver paralyzing attempts, and at least the one-handed speary sort extends a tentacle's reach by 5'.

However it seems to modify a tentacle rather than being treated as a weapon, and would therefore not gain iterative attacks.

[Gorgondantess]

So, I must admit: I've become a slight bit stumped with the Pseuodonatural Creature. Oh, it's all working rather well... except for a few of the invocations. I need use-activated invocations for least & lesser: I'm already good on eldritch, and I already have several passive invocations. So if there's anything in particular you'd like to see, now's the time to say it.

Pyroclastic Dragon: Ummm... no. It's significantly more powerful than most of the other dragons. An extra action every turn? When we're talking rocket tag, the cooldown doesn't matter much: it's still really, really powerful.
Go ahead and pump it up a little, but not too much. Or, reduce the power and give it spellcasting as you do so.

[NineThePuma]

@Gorgon:

If you look over the dragons, I'd say they're actually all really dummied down and weak, with very little similarities to the original class.

That could just be me though.

[Mystic Muse]

Pyroclastic Dragon: Ummm... no. It's significantly more powerful than most of the other dragons. An extra action every turn? When we're talking rocket tag, the cooldown doesn't matter much: it's still really, really powerful.
Go ahead and pump it up a little, but not too much. Or, reduce the power and give it spellcasting as you do so.

Never liked the ability much anyway. I'll remove it and replace it with something flavorful but not overpowered.

[Gorgondantess]

@Gorgon:

If you look over the dragons, I'd say they're actually all really dummied down and weak, with very little similarities to the original class.

That could just be me though.

You kidding? Flight, bardic spellcasting, blindsense, a slew of ability score bonuses, lots of natural attacks, great HD, BAB and saves, an almost at will potent damage dealing ability, and you think they're weak? Most of them are pushing too powerful.

Never liked the ability much anyway. I'll remove it and replace it with something flavorful but not overpowered.

You'll have to do more than just that. Anyways, I've actually found that most people seem to prefer the non-spellcasting dragons, as they get cool & unique abilities. Might want to think hard about doing that.

[Tacitus]

Case in point, I like the Pyro as is. >.> Adding spellcasting just makes it like any other dragon.

[NineThePuma]

Pyroclastic Dragon: Ummm... no. It's significantly more powerful than most of the other dragons. An extra action every turn? When we're talking rocket tag, the cooldown doesn't matter much: it's still really, really powerful.

... That ability was already in the pyroclastic...

You kidding? Flight, bardic spellcasting, blindsense, a slew of ability score bonuses, lots of natural attacks, great HD, BAB and saves, an almost at will potent damage dealing ability, and you think they're weak? Most of them are pushing too powerful.

I'm completely serious. The Dragons are just big, loud, and while I'll be the first to admit they're strong, they only barely match up (both scaling and power-wise) with the original critter. I'd be in favor of redoing them all completely.

EDIT: To clarify, I specifically mean the chromatics.

[Gorgondantess]

You'll have to do more than just that. Anyways, I've actually found that most people seem to prefer the non-spellcasting dragons, as they get cool & unique abilities. Might want to think hard about doing that.

Case in point, I like the Pyro as is. >.> Adding spellcasting just makes it like any other dragon.

Support for my theory continues to accrue.
Really, though, I think the best made dragon on this thread is the Styx Dragon. Consider that.

[Mystic Muse]

One question. If the pyroclastic getting spellcasting and that ability is broken, then isn't it the same case with the blue dragon? While getting another full round action once every five rounds is a very good ability, I think it's eclipsed by the ability to summon a blue dragon cohort 1/day for an entire hour as a swift action. Might be wrong about that but it seems easier to abuse.

[Gorgondantess]

One question. If the pyroclastic getting spellcasting and that ability is broken, then isn't it the same case with the blue dragon? While getting another full round action once every five rounds is a very good ability, I think it's eclipsed by the ability to summon a blue dragon cohort 1/day for an entire hour as a swift action. Might be wrong about that but it seems easier to abuse.

Well, the Pyroclastic gets that ability earlier and gets more abilities than the blue dragon other than that. Though I'm not saying the blue dragon's capstone is good.

[Mystic Muse]

Well, the Pyroclastic gets that ability earlier and gets more abilities than the blue dragon other than that. Though I'm not saying the blue dragon's capstone is good.

okay.

Do you think the ability the pyroclastic has should go regardless, or just that it can't have that and spellcasting?

[Lord_Gareth]

So.

Turns out the Metalmaster has an intelligence score sufficient to gain class levels. Anyone up for it?

[NineThePuma]

Hey, apparently a number of older "template" classes don't give "Natural Armor equal to X Ability Modifier" so... how should those be handled?

[Kajhera]

Took my own requirements for the tentacles and applied them, making them somewhat more in line with the hydra. You get the 10 by level 9.

Opinion on the pyroclastic: Don't give it spellcasting, please. Planar dragons should be stronger in non-spellcasting ways. Call me a traditionalist.

[simplename]

I'm completely serious. The Dragons are just big, loud, and while I'll be the first to admit they're strong, they only barely match up (both scaling and power-wise) with the original critter. I'd be in favor of redoing them all completely.

EDIT: To clarify, I specifically mean the chromatics.

That's not the dragon classes being weak. That's the actual dragons being too strong. Even the designers admit the MM dragons are under-CRd.

One of the main points of this project is to tone down monsters that were too powerfull. Just look at the psionic mindflayer, wich casts as a psion 9 when it is itself CR 8 on top of the rest of the abilities! So of course the psionic mind flayer class doesn't cast as a psion of one level higher, even if that's what the original monster did.

[NineThePuma]

My issue is more "when it should be working as a Whrmling, it's got the powers of a young adult." when it comes to scaling >>

[Gorgondantess]

okay.

Do you think the ability the pyroclastic has should go regardless, or just that it can't have that and spellcasting?

The overwhelming consensus seems to be that planar dragons should not have spellcasting. I'll uphold that decision.

Hey, apparently a number of older "template" classes don't give "Natural Armor equal to X Ability Modifier" so... how should those be handled?

However it says they're handled. If they say it gives +2 NA, you get to add 2 to your NA.

I'm completely serious. The Dragons are just big, loud, and while I'll be the first to admit they're strong, they only barely match up (both scaling and power-wise) with the original critter. I'd be in favor of redoing them all completely.

EDIT: To clarify, I specifically mean the chromatics.

I don't see what your problem is. Do you think they should scale identically to how the dragons in the MM scale? I'll tell you right now, that won't work. And it already does, actually... to far too great an extent.

[Tvtyrant]

On the Grellcraft; the Grell have the ability to make a weapon called the Lightning Lance which fires 3d6 rays of electricity 3 times a day, and the Greater Lightning Lance which fires them 5 times a day. They both recharge each day, and anyone none Grell has to make a DC 20 on a UMD check to use them. They are from Lords of Madness (they also have something called a Grell Silver Spear, but its worthless for none Grell).

[Kajhera]

On the Grellcraft; the Grell have the ability to make a weapon called the Lightning Lance which fires 3d6 rays of electricity 3 times a day, and the Greater Lightning Lance which fires them 5 times a day. They both recharge each day, and anyone none Grell has to make a DC 20 on a UMD check to use them. They are from Lords of Madness (they also have something called a Grell Silver Spear, but its worthless for none Grell).

A non-grell can wield it as a normal magic silvered spear. Removing all its bonuses it costs twice as much as a normal spear. I see no reason they couldn't adapt other one-handed and/or light weapons similarly, and not necessarily enchant or silver them... just in case, y'know, your grell warblade wants something other than a silvery spear.

[Gorgondantess]

After due consideration, the Valkyrie is being added to the list.

[Zemro]

New Featured Monster!

Bleakborn: Honestly I can't think of much of anything to say here, so any final changes needed look like they're beyond my abilities.

Though, aside from the Icy Touch ability (which specifies cold damage) it seems that many of his heat draining abilities would be more effective against [Fire] creatures and etc. but don't seem to have typed damage. So it may be worth it go go through and evaluated that sort of interaction.

Thorn: I've taken feedback into consideration and made the following changes to it:

December 3rd

• Rolled DR and NA into one ability, renamed 'Protection of the Courts.'
• Fixed some spelling errors.
• Weapon of Thorns updated to quantify pieces of ammunition effected.
• Subduing strikes tweaked to allow for later advancement through PrCs.
• Slumbering shots tweak to make less abusable and more straight forward.
• Weapon of Barbs changed to make it a bit more versatile and effective.

On the non-lethal damage ability, it's a play and game style thing I think, and while you personally may have no use for it, I can think of characters I've played and games I've seen/played where something like that could be of good benefit. On my method for listing ability scores, if it's disapproved of by everyone in general I'll remove it. I kinda like it myself, because of how my brain works and that I can easily see those sorts of things at a glance at the table.

[AugustNights]

Darling, it is no joke...


This is Osanthropy

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The Werebear looks like she's good to go.

Also on the subject of lycanthropes, the third level ability score increase originally represented the transformation begining to affect the character's mind. Generally this would be a wisdom bonus to represent sharpened insticts. While there is room for variation(a werefox might get a bonus to intellegence to represent increased cunning, while a wereeagle might get a charisma bonus to represent its majesty) I think the third level ability bonus should apply to a mental ability. Feel free to do otherwise if you disagree, these are just my thoughts.

Actually I agree almost entirely, however it has been made clear in this project that Ability Score Bonuses gained through monster class levels cannot be any Ability Score that the Monster Class doesn't depend on. Which is unfortunate, but the goals of the project.

As for your Alpha wolf ability... I really like it as is, and to be honest, I feel you could simply give the Werewolf a bonus to commanding/leading its pack while in Hybrid form, and it'd be fine enough incentive to be in Hybrid form for me.

This is Dromosauranthropy

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Wereraptor:
Why is the Bite only in Raptor Form?
Why do you have two tables for Ability Score Improvement?
Any particular reason that you have decided to give the wereraptor a flat Standard Action to assume its Alternate form, rather than the

Assuming an Alternate form, or dismissing it, is a Full-Round Action that provokes an attack of opportunity. At 7 HD this changes to a Standard Action and at 14 HD this changes to a Move Action, at 20 HD this changes to a Swift Action.

that was recommended?
Raptor Dexterity is fine, but I think there may be a better name for it, Savage Charge, or something akin.
Other than those little questions, she's looking seaworthy to me.

[Gorgondantess]

Okay, so, I just had an idea: a line of general monster class only feats. For instance, a class with natural armor based on a certain score they might not be pumping too much- say, a harpy with con based natural armor, or a marraenoloth- and take a feat to gain a deflection bonus to AC based on a different stat.
Anybody have any other ideas? I'm not looking for monster abilities, per se- most of those are covered by the MM feats- but things that would especially apply to the way we do these monster classes.