EMPIRE! A Community World-Building Tale of People & Discovery

[Aeternus]

@Wombat – Well, I'm totally into that idea, but I'm obviously coming from a very biased perspective xD

[moossabi]

@Wombat – Well, I'm totally into that idea, but I'm obviously coming from a very biased perspective xD

I'd probably say the same.

[Aeternus]

TAR
Region 28, Aeternus

Spoiler: Crest

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Spoiler: Government

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RULER

Name: Chief Talon Char ♂
Generation: I
Wing: Root ♀
Children: Quiver ♀, Coal ♂
Heir: Quiver Char

Spoiler: Artist's Likeness

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Artist: kokomiko

Curiosity: 4
Diplomacy: 4
Faith: 4
Luck: 5 (4+1)
Military: 4

Population: 36,000
Army: 0 /12,000

Spoiler: Previous Stats

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Round 4: Cu 4, Di 4, Fa 4, Lu 5 (4+1), Mi 4, Po 36000, Ar 0

Spoiler: Land

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TERRAIN

This humid region of Tar is dominated by the dense western Blackadder forest and surrounding swamps, which fade into arid grassland towards the east, eventually ending in coastal sands.

Only Quill are allowed to set foot in the closely guarded capital city Elder, so the Chief resides in the military city Arrow for diplomatic purposes, located on a small island in the Great Moss Lake to improve defenses against hostile mountain tribes that occasionally attempt to invade the western border. The trade center Hart, a harbor city at the northeastern fringes of the nation, is where most of Tar's contact with the outside world takes place. Long before establishing trade with other regions, the Quill people made their weapons using bone, shells and obsidian.

Nighthawk: This giant petrified oak tree at the heart of the forest is a momument to Atur, the Quills' primary deity in a pantheon of nature spirits, all of which are carved in runic patterns into the ancient bark. The primary center of worship, the Tree is a vastly important aspect of Quill culture and guarded fiercely. There are rumors that the Nighthawk also marks the entrance to a secret underground catacomb connecting to a hidden location within the capital city.

Spoiler

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Snake Falls: This beautiful cataract cascades over the eastern border of the Great Moss Lake in the depths of the Blackadder forest. It is an integral part of a complex river system eventually leading to the capital city, provided you know the way: otherwise it can quickly become a confounding, mosquito-ridden maze. The waterfall feeds into a large river passing into the sea through the harbor city and trade center of Hart, where many Quill offer their services as gondoliers or pathfinders, as foreigners can rarely expect to navigate the swamps and rivers safely on their own.

Spoiler

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Tar Pits: These infamous black holes wherefrom the region got its name litter the hotter areas at the drier southeastern fringes of the grassland. It is also a risky but potentially greatly rewarding hunting ground claiming several human lives each year. The most effective hunting method is "tar-baiting", wherein live bait, such as a young deer, is unwittingly herded into the trap, as hunters wait for its struggles and cries for help to attract predators, such as a hungry panther or savage pack of wolves, which, distracted by the possibility of a fresh kill, are then ambushed by fierce Quill warriors. Decorative trinkets and jewelry fashioned from the plentiful supply of various inedible animal parts are often sold to foreigners in Hart for an extra profit.

Spoiler

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RESOURCES

Export: Blackadder consists of a wide variety of woods ranging from pale to dark and soft to iron-hard. The forest, swamps, coast and rivers are rife with a profusion of plants and animals throughout the year, providing plenty of crops [Poor] and meat [Good] for trade. Tar is an unusual resource with various practical applications.

Import: The Tar region is poor in metal and Quill culture places particularly high value on precious metals and stones. Certain minerals are preferred for making custom paints.

Spoiler: Technology

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None yet.

Spoiler: Culture

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PEOPLE

The people of Tar call themselves Quill, and according to their legends, the first Quill were children of fey, and wielders of awesome power; but over many generations, the ability to harness wild energies was lost, leaving only a strong affinity to nature that human blood could not dilute. Subsisting for millennia from the rich ecosystem of the feral forest and wild sea, the Quill are tall-grown and lithe, with wiry limbs that grant them great speed and agility and an uncannily long life expectancy. All Quill have dark hair and skin tones ranging from chestnut brown to ebony (bottom bar). Most have brown, black or gray eyes, but one may occasionally find blue, green, red and even violet among them. The dark side of this athletic culture is their persecution and ostracism of those born less physically capable. Deaf, blind, albinistic or "warped", that is physically handicapped, babies are drowned or left to die of exposure. Very few do survive to adulthood but will never attain more than mediocre standing in their culture, and so have been known to leave Tar and assimilate to more tolerant foreign regions. Men and women are treated equally, although there is an unsubstantiated social stereotype that men are more impulsive and women more calculating.


RELIGION

The insular Quill have heard tales of the Lord of Fire but believe him to be a misinterpretation of Brazar, the nature spirit of volcanoes. They still primarily worship Atur, the nature spirit of sky and flight, as they believe the souls of dead Quill rise again as birds. According to legend the Nighthawk is etched with runes representing every single one of the nature spirits in existence, and second to Atur, they are all worshipped equally. Most Quill have a personal deity they particularly identify with, and will usually have their rune tattooed upon their palm, breastbone or another body part that can be seen while wearing clothes and paint. Painting the skin in elaborate patterns and designs expressing one's current personal journey is a revered part of Quill culture and foreigners who keep their skin blank are often mocked as heathens and "babies" who have not experienced anything meaningful enough yet to preserve its memories on their bodies. Paints are never permanent because they should change and shift with the person as they grow. These paints are of great spiritual significance as they signify a bond with nature and the elements.


POLITICS

Currently the Quill are ruled by the young and strapping Chief Talon Char and his wing (wife) Root. They have two children, a 5-year-old daughter Quiver and a 9-year-old son Coal. While Talon commands troops, collects taxes in the form of food and other goods, and has the power to declare allied, enemied and neutral positions towards other governments and organizations, in most political negotiations he is merely the elected face of the Elder Council, an elite caste of sages chosen for their uncanny wisdom and wile among temple priests who confer on issues about trade, diplomacy and learning. This educated Council chooses which of Char's children will follow him as heir. Bastards are disqualified, but that's never stopped them from trying to threaten, bribe or otherwise usurp their way to the top. Should an heir leave no children, the heir's closest living kin becomes Chief; if the closest living kin is not yet adult (> 19 years of age) the Council chooses who among the child's relatives will temporarily assume the mantle of rulership, tutoring the rightful heir until he or she is old enough to rule. The Quill people refer to their Chief as Sagamore and a temporary regent as Sachem. The parents of an heir have absolute authority over who their child marries; siblings who have not been chosen to rule can choose for themselves. Only adults may marry, and pre-arranged marriages are only common for heirs.


HISTORY

• Gen I: Chief Talon Char (Round 4+)

Aeternus

[QuintonBeck]

I would be against a grace period because it allows a new nation to pull off things that might provoke war without risking getting attacked. Now, I'm sure obviously if they actually did anything outwardly hostile they'd break their grace period as that would be only fair but sometimes the line separating hostile and non-hostile is sort of a fine one. Of course, I'm coming in from the biased perspective of being in the middle of attacking a nation (one that doesn't have the world police on me) and I'd rather not have to wait a bunch of turns after I built up my entire early game strategy around invasion first.

To be fair, it is realistic to have no grace period, you want to make your own nation, you better be able to defend it or be friends with those who can. Having a protective bubble is kinda cheesy and meta-gamey imo.

[lt_murgen]

On attacking a new player / region, might I offer a compromise?

All new regions start their round with no military. Thus, they cannot attack. If they choose to spend the first rounds actions building up a military, then that is their decision.

In turn, regions with an interest in that must spend a curiosity action exploring the boundaries / coastline / whatever of the new territory. They can attack next turn.

I think that makes sense fluff wise.

For example, a series of holes open up in a region, revealing a previously unknown underground kingdom. That region's ruler is not going to send an army into the tunnels. No, they would scout the tunnels, figure out what is going on, and prepare. Similarly, the underground region would not burst forth with armed mayhem without knowing what is above them.

[SamBurke]

...
No matter what propaganda the Sympol spin, I shall aid Tekorva. If I had to march across the very ocean itself, I would. Dwarven honour is unassailable. Not to mention this is only the beginning of the rat's plan. If Tekorva is taken, he gains their resources and land. He has already proved capable of invading countries simply because they're defenceless; if you fear his army now, think how terrifying he will be after he amasses an empire. Razdis will aid Tekorva, and I urge you to do the same. If anyone from the Silver Pact reads this, it's time to go to war.

This cannot be borne.

/angry dwarf.
Ahem. As you may have guessed, I'm defending Tekorva. This may or may not cause a continent-sized war. Tychris, OOC I've got no beef with you, I'm just defending my allies. They would do the same if the situations were reversed. IC, Razdis is apocalyptically annoyed. I'm almost certainly not going to win this, but it shall not be said that Tekorva died alone. We're taking a lot of rats to the underworld with us. That said, Rain Dragon, maybe you should start thinking up some reserve region fluff. Time to edit that action yet again.

This is more than fair, though I do find that this sort of idealism is very bad for one's nation in the long run in real life. Also realize that Guilder and Sympol have a published military defense treaty.

And I'm sorely temped to send 3000 Insect aerial units Tekorva's way, as I was just discussing a trading agreement and alliance with them and thus was rudely interrupted. And I hate being interrupted......*Glareglare* Also, because of this, Kasumor will say NO to any attempt of the Sympol to join the Coalition to stop it at least from becoming a full member.

I'm just gonna say this: this won't affect your trade at all. Sympol is friendly to the GC, and will presumably continue to trade with them. Furthermore, I'd recommend not putting your insects into this battle, as there's not very much benefit to doing so.

@The Tekorva Stuff: I think everyone is really enjoying and invested in this game and that makes tensions high and actions in game really have a hard impact. Let's all step back and take a deep breath and remember it's a forum game. Even if you lose your country you can still come back into the game with more knowledge and if you're trying to take someone's land there is no need to rub their face in it or be a sore winner.

We all have stuff outside the game that may not be going well but let's try and foster a friendly air of camaraderie within this game, after all, every game requires good sportsmanship. Let's not forget that. Treat everyone well and give people the benefit of the doubt and remember to have fun and try and make sure everyone else is having a good time too.

Alright, enough sappy stuff, back to being the merciless Doomkhan!

Agreeing with this pretty strongly. The game is awesome, therefore it makes everything worth more to us, but that's no reason for either side (I'm looking at those propaganda posts from everyone, here) to try and add more emotion to things. That's only going to make the experience worse, and perhaps add bitterness. I love all y'all, and I want this game to go on for a long time, but only if it goes on in the sort of easy-going friendship the rest of the forum carries.

Yeah, I was just about to ask if we can do Secret Action attacks or not. Seems to be the general direction that peer pressure is leaning towards. I mean it works technically, but logically I'm not sure how you covertly do a big battle?

I feel like the general peer pressure not to go around conquering is realistic IC, I mean it's not really the best idea to turn a blind eye to Genghis Khan, who knows how far he'll get if you let him get momentum

That said a lot of our responses are metagamey. Realistically we shouldn't know about an attack until it has happened unless we have spies set up. I realize this is the internet, but I doubt Duke Bloodfang wrote a letter to every ruler in the known world to inform them of his plan to attack Terkova. So we should either try harder to avoid metagaming or it won't be long until Attacks become Secret Actions and Declarations of War are PMs.

I agree with both of these: we're being awful meta-gamey about invasion.

That said, it feels semi-realistic to mold politics: those countries being invaded would call favors, would do this or that, and so there'd be a lot of political maneuvers. So I feel like it's not too bad; but declaring war via secret action should be alright.

I would be against a grace period because it allows a new nation to pull off things that might provoke war without risking getting attacked. Now, I'm sure obviously if they actually did anything outwardly hostile they'd break their grace period as that would be only fair but sometimes the line separating hostile and non-hostile is sort of a fine one. Of course, I'm coming in from the biased perspective of being in the middle of attacking a nation (one that doesn't have the world police on me) and I'd rather not have to wait a bunch of turns after I built up my entire early game strategy around invasion first.

To be fair, it is realistic to have no grace period, you want to make your own nation, you better be able to defend it or be friends with those who can. Having a protective bubble is kinda cheesy and meta-gamey imo.

I agree: a grace period should be enacted by unspoken rules, not by game rules. Tekorva has allies, and if they are willing to risk their troops, they can (and it looks like, even will).

Also, I love that everyone jumps on the back of Sympol attacking Tekorva, despite it having troops, yet the Doomkhan gets a free pass. Personally, I support both invasions, I just find the contrast of public opinion amusing.

[BladeofObliviom]

Heh, Doomkhan. I make one joke and now it's a title.


Anyway, I'm sure people are just as bothered by the invasion of Aloren as of Tekorva. The differences are that Aloren has an actual army (though it is still at a disadvantage) and that most of the players in that region are less active at the moment so they haven't really raised their voices about it yet.

[Aeternus]

Hmm, QuintonBeck has a point about the grace period not fitting into an IC world well. At the same time, speaking as a new player, I can say it would be discouraging if there were no guarantee that I won't survive my very first round. I'd definitely be tempted to stock up on military like crazy and that might appear aggressive, even when it's not my intention. It would be distracting to spend the next like 5 rounds just amassing an army so I stand a chance when really I'd prefer to explore, trade and make diplomatic arrangements, etc.

Here's the thing, other established larger nations obviously have nothing to gain by not taking advantage of a new developing nation to enrich their own nation, but perhaps an arrangement could be made that keeps it from just "killing" the newbie player. So instead of military dominance over the newer nations, perhaps economic dominance could be a sufficiently lucrative and IC-viable replacement.

For instance, a new nation could act as a *temporary* vassal of a larger nation. The large nation lends troops to protect the new nation from being crushed by powerful established nations. In return, the vassal provides its suzerain generous resource deals, giving the new nation a chance to develop trade and exploration. Once the new nation falls on its feet, it may choose to become militarily independent or continue the system of vassalage, which has its advantages for a nation more interested in cultural/economic than military development.

For example, I could promise a potential vassal with an original curiosity of 2 that my ruler, with an original curiosity of 4, could expend a lot of energy into improving their curiosity, then develop a certain technology at the suzerain's request, then share that technology exclusively with the suzerain (with the exception of other nations attaining the technology through intrigue).
Aeternus

[QuintonBeck]

Shh! No one look at the Doomkhan invading a peaceful nation behind the curtain!

Also, I much appreciate the title Blade, even if it was in jest it's a perfectly appropriate nickname haha

As for more on the grace period, if a new nation doesn't want to spend turns raising armies and looking aggressive make sure and align yourself with your neighborhood big dogs so they won't let you get crushed. It's similar to the vassal system but less restrictive and I think less likely to end in war when the new nation decides to break and go indie. After all, if you've been protecting this group for a few rounds and they've been under your protection are you going to be keen to have them leave your authority? Probably not, but if you've had a solid trade deal or what have you with a foreign nation you would likely only be obligated to help them in times of trouble and thus not feel gypped when they do their own things for themselves during peace time.

[SamBurke]

Hmm, QuintonBeck has a point about the grace period not fitting into an IC world well. At the same time, speaking as a new player, I can say it would be discouraging if there were no guarantee that I won't survive my very first round. I'd definitely be tempted to stock up on military like crazy and that might appear aggressive, even when it's not my intention. It would be distracting to spend the next like 5 rounds just amassing an army so I stand a chance when really I'd prefer to explore, trade and make diplomatic arrangements, etc.

Here's the thing, other established larger nations obviously have nothing to gain by not taking advantage of a new developing nation to enrich their own nation, but perhaps an arrangement could be made that keeps it from just "killing" the newbie player. So instead of military dominance over the newer nations, perhaps economic dominance could be a sufficiently lucrative and IC-viable replacement.

For instance, a new nation could act as a *temporary* vassal of a larger nation. The large nation lends troops to protect the new nation from being crushed by powerful established nations. In return, the vassal provides its suzerain generous resource deals, giving the new nation a chance to develop trade and exploration. Once the new nation falls on its feet, it may choose to become militarily independent or continue the system of vassalage, which has its advantages for a nation more interested in cultural/economic than military development.

For example, I could promise a potential vassal with an original curiosity of 2 that my ruler, with an original curiosity of 4, could expend a lot of energy into improving their curiosity, then develop a certain technology at the suzerain's request, then share that technology exclusively with the suzerain (with the exception of other nations attaining the technology through intrigue).
Aeternus

I can say myself that I'm not going to attack any players until they've had three turns to develop, so you're safe.

[zabbarot]

You know, most of the terror of being conquered is because right now it seems like it's just a single dice roll. Nation X invades Nation Y with a superior force, rolls higher and wins. Nation X now controls both territories and all of their resources.

It's maybe a little too binary. Work something additional into it. When Nation X captures Nation Y the people revolt. Ruler of Nation X must use pacify the populace before s/he can gain any benefit from the territory. This could be done a few ways (diplomancy, more punching, maybe conversions)

Alternatively before the invasion Nation X could spend a few actions wooing the people of Nation Y, now s/he is able to invade with a 'claim' so s/he doesn't have to pacify a revolt. Maybe this is done by spreading religion or culture first.

These are just general ideas, but most nations do have a culture listed so it'd be neat to make it mean something.

EDIT: Good examples of claims might be things like related nobility. If you're the current kings cousin, you have a stronger argument with the people who already live there than someone they've never heard of.

Edited edit: wrong your @_@

[BladeofObliviom]

Hmm, QuintonBeck has a point about the grace period not fitting into an IC world well. At the same time, speaking as a new player, I can say it would be discouraging if there were no guarantee that I won't survive my very first round. I'd definitely be tempted to stock up on military like crazy and that might appear aggressive, even when it's not my intention. It would be distracting to spend the next like 5 rounds just amassing an army so I stand a chance when really I'd prefer to explore, trade and make diplomatic arrangements, etc.

Here's the thing, other established larger nations obviously have nothing to gain by not taking advantage of a new developing nation to enrich their own nation, but perhaps an arrangement could be made that keeps it from just "killing" the newbie player. So instead of military dominance over the newer nations, perhaps economic dominance could be a sufficiently lucrative and IC-viable replacement.

For instance, a new nation could act as a *temporary* vassal of a larger nation. The large nation lends troops to protect the new nation from being crushed by powerful established nations. In return, the vassal provides its suzerain generous resource deals, giving the new nation a chance to develop trade and exploration. Once the new nation falls on its feet, it may choose to become militarily independent or continue the system of vassalage, which has its advantages for a nation more interested in cultural/economic than military development.

I know that I just posted, but hello Aeternus and welcome to the game! I'm currently playing High Chieftain Umajin of the Khalifate of Crima, your neighbor to the North!

Anyway, you happen to be in possibly the safest available starting position for a new player, since the only nation that could plausibly attack you (by land, anyway) just issued a public condemnation of the Sympol and Woodwind for their aggressive attempts at expansion and attacking you without a damned good reason would make my character a total hypocrite.

You also have the nice advantage of a significant power block right next to you that isn't very keen on letting threats come anywhere near them if at all possible and isn't currently angling for any kind of military expansion as far as I know. Well, an advantage as far as not getting killed. Maybe not in terms of your own expansion.

Anyway, I'm out of actions for now, but go ahead and PM me anyway if you're interested in working something out for next turn.

[Aeternus]

Yes, but the trouble is that it would be very easy for the big dogs to reassure me that they'll be allies with me and ask me to invest in trade/explore actions for the first few rounds, then gang up on me militarily with secret actions and invade me within one or two rounds of pretending to help me out, leaving me basically defenseless.

I have nothing against players personally, but in the absence of a contract or rule of some kind, IC if not OOC, new players appear to be very vulnerable to getting killed or exploited and I've never played a game in my adult life wherein even the best of friends didn't take advantage of that sort of situation. I don't know, maybe everyone here is a saint and I'm just a mistrustful troll :P

[Aeternus]

I know that I just posted, but hello Aeternus and welcome to the game! I'm currently playing High Chieftain Umajin of the Khalifate of Crima, your neighbor to the North!

Anyway, you happen to be in possibly the safest available starting position for a new player, since the only nation that could plausibly attack you (by land, anyway) just issued a public condemnation of the Sympol and Woodwind for their aggressive attempts at expansion and attacking you without a damned good reason would make my character a total hypocrite.

You also have the nice advantage of a significant power block right next to you that isn't very keen on letting threats come anywhere near them if at all possible and isn't currently angling for any kind of military expansion as far as I know.

Anyway, I'm out of actions for now, but go ahead and PM me anyway if you're interested in working something out for next turn.

Hellooo :) That's a relief to hear. I haven't really done a lot of research on other nations yet. It's good to know that I've got some geopolitical benefits going for me, but I'm afraid not every new player will.

[zabbarot]

Anyway, I'm sure people are just as bothered by the invasion of Aloren as of Tekorva. The differences are that Aloren has an actual army (though it is still at a disadvantage) and that most of the players in that region are less active at the moment so they haven't really raised their voices about it yet.

We're active, just not so vocal. Actions speak louder than words, but results speak loudest so I am fine with secrecy for now.

[QuintonBeck]

You know, most of the terror of being conquered is because right now it seems like it's just a single dice roll. Nation X invades Nation Y with a superior force, rolls higher and wins. Nation X now controls both territories and all of their resources.

It's maybe a little too binary. Work something additional into it. When Nation X captures Nation Y the people revolt. Ruler of Nation X must use pacify the populace before s/he can gain any benefit from the territory. This could be done a few ways (diplomancy, more punching, maybe conversions)

Alternatively before the invasion Nation X could spend a few actions wooing the people of Nation Y, now s/he is able to invade with a 'claim' so s/he doesn't have to pacify a revolt. Maybe this is done by spreading religion or culture first.

These are just general ideas, but most nations do have a culture listed so it'd be neat to make it mean something.

EDIT: Good examples of claims might be things like related nobility. If you're the current kings cousin, you have a stronger argument with the people who already live there than someone they've never heard of.

Edited edit: wrong your @_@

This is actually somewhat implied in the rules, specifically the diplomacy rules. In fact, I'm pretty sure Woodwind is gonna have a hell of a time holding Aloren totally once it has it. At least, that's what I'm worried about and I'm the guy with the bigger military number.

[Arutha]

I think the big deal with Tekrova is the fact that there are GC nations on both sides. And I'm not giving up my tech buddy. We have a thing and tech is better than bodies any how, not that you can't have both.

[zabbarot]

This is actually somewhat implied in the rules, specifically the diplomacy rules. In fact, I'm pretty sure Woodwind is gonna have a hell of a time holding Aloren totally once it has it. At least, that's what I'm worried about and I'm the guy with the bigger military number.

I went and reread it. I had missed that. Now I don't know what all the fuss is about

EDIT: decided it should be a new post

[Logic]

This is actually somewhat implied in the rules, specifically the diplomacy rules. In fact, I'm pretty sure Woodwind is gonna have a hell of a time holding Aloren totally once it has it. At least, that's what I'm worried about and I'm the guy with the bigger military number.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the rules also don't state that you do or don't have access to any and/or all of the resources within.

Something has to be able to drive a rebellion, but at the same time, a nation has to have a clear advantage and/or reason to conquer a region that she/he can't control immediately.

[zabbarot]

Rereading the rules reminded me of something that bothers me though.

make a Military check (1d6+their Military score+number of units under their command in that region+amount of technologies they have that are applicable)

Military score, number of units, and applicable technologies easily eclipse the d6. I mean for example Quinton is marching 4000 troops south and has a military score of 8. So he has a d6+12 right now with no technological bonuses. Meanwhile Thunderfist's ruler has a military score of 2 and a single army, so d6+3. In the absolute worst case scenario for QuintonBeck he still wins the fight and destroys Thunderfist's only army. The dice honestly don't matter, and this is not a high-op scenario.

TL;DR: I feel we should use a larger dice or lower the bonuses, because a d6 doesn't really affect much.

[SamBurke]

Rereading the rules reminded me of something that bothers me though.

Military score, number of units, and applicable technologies easily eclipse the d6. I mean for example Quinton is marching 4000 troops south and has a military score of 8. So he has a d6+12 right now with no technological bonuses. Meanwhile Thunderfist's ruler has a military score of 2 and a single army, so d6+3. In the absolute worst case scenario for QuintonBeck he still wins the fight and destroys Thunderfist's only army. The dice honestly don't matter, and this is not a high-op scenario.

TL;DR: I feel we should use a larger dice or lower the bonuses, because a d6 doesn't really affect much.

But unless you've got an amazing general, being that badly outnumbered means you lose anyway.

[zabbarot]

But unless you've got an amazing general, being that badly outnumbered means you lose anyway.

That is true but the disparity will only grow. If you conquer three territories no single territory can stand against you. Your population is just too large.

There is a chance that this game will just end in a steamroller of Stormvermin ._.

[Tychris1]

That is true but the disparity will only grow. If you conquer three territories no single territory can stand against you. Your population is just too large.

There is a chance that this game will just end in a steamroller of Stormvermin ._.

Or a swarm of mantid riders/Doomkhan Legions/North Western Horse Riders/Insert Military unit.

There's still the whole "Gang up" option. Empire vs Rebels, AT-AT's getting swarmed by little plush teddy bears-I mean ewok's.

[Silverbit]

Or a swarm of mantid riders/Doomkhan Legions/North Western Horse Riders/Insert Military unit.

There's still the whole "Gang up" option. Empire vs Rebels, AT-AT's getting swarmed by little plush teddy bears-I mean ewok's.

There's still the threat of whoever the bloody earth people are as well. They would be equivalent to the Yuuzhan Vong I guess.

[SamBurke]

Or a swarm of mantid riders/Doomkhan Legions/North Western Horse Riders/Insert Military unit.

There's still the whole "Gang up" option. Empire vs Rebels, AT-AT's getting swarmed by little plush teddy bears-I mean ewok's.

There's still the threat of whoever the bloody earth people are as well. They would be equivalent to the Yuuzhan Vong I guess.

Yeah. There's always hope if a number of small folk gang together. Plus, you can lead rebellions from inside the country... which I look forward to doing if I get taken down.

Also, I'm willing to be Morph and the other DMs have or will have a plan for something like that, to make sure everyone has fun.

[Morph Bark]

It pleases me to see people trying to keep this light-hearted and a game of camaraderie OOC, even if IC they'll bash one another's brains in as soon as they are capable of that.

I've taken a look at some concerns with Military and conquest, and while conquest requires two wins in a row and has option of rebellion even afterwards means I don't think that needs to be altered further, keeping the die size to only a d6 may well limit the game itself. I would not want the dice to influence the game more than clever play does, but if the die rolls for Military checks were d10-based, that is more the equivalent of occasionally getting a small force beating a superior opponent, though it will still not be often.

I am considering a grace period, but for now it's entirely up to the players. I have already taken to giving new players a general view of their surrounding situation for as far as they could IC know it. Furthermore, on their first turn and possibly their second, new players will not get negative Events on their heads. Now that I've got two official assistants for administrative purposes, I can put more focus into proper preparation for new rounds, including new Events, exploration results, and secret actions. I'll still be keeping track of religion, technology and Great Projects, which at some point I may want a third assistant GM for, but for now this suffices.

We will be starting up a new thread in the coming days, as we're rapidly approaching 50 pages. You will not have to port over your country descriptions to the new thread, as you can still keep them updated in this one as long as we do not exceed 50 pages here (else it will get locked and they become uneditable).

On resource, a small update: as several of you have several kinds of grown foods (grain, vegetables, etc.) listed under the same thing, I figured we might as well go ahead and just call them "crops", rather than ask everyone to specify what single specific kind of plant they're growing.

On that note, Aeternus, I note that you've put both plants and animals together in your resources. Could you specify one of them? Either "crops" or a specific kind of animal, because while crops are pretty one-dimensional in what you can do with them, there's a difference in what you can do with cows, dire boars or swamp-bulettes.

Also, I'm willing to bet Morph and the other DMs have or will have a plan for something like that, to make sure everyone has fun.

The ideal I strive for is to make players always have more than one option for dealing with things, even when they may be losing things in the process. That is why I specifically came up with ways to still be in the game if you lost all your territory, though there is a time limit on that (until the death of your current character). "Losing should be fun" is a thing a good game designer should keep in mind, even if it sounds rather counter-intuitive to players at first.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

On resource, a small update: as several of you have several kinds of grown foods (grain, vegetables, etc.) listed under the same thing, I figured we might as well go ahead and just call them "crops", rather than ask everyone to specify what single specific kind of plant they're growing.

Alright, I'll change that in my chart. Do mushrooms also get the "Crop" category?

Should Cedar Wood then get turned into just "Wood"?

[Morph Bark]

Alright, I'll change that in my chart. Do mushrooms also get the "Crop" category?

Should Cedar Wood then get turned into just "Wood"?

Mushrooms I'm not sure about, as crops seem to signify plants primarily. Spices also wouldn't be crops, because crops are food-only, whereas spices are more as an addition to food already being there, not food in itself. Cedar wood could just be wood.

However, you can always (put it in brackets and make it tiny) like I do with more details on stuff in the short-form country write-up.

[SamBurke]

It pleases me to see people trying to keep this light-hearted and a game of camaraderie OOC, even if IC they'll bash one another's brains in as soon as they are capable of that.

I've taken a look at some concerns with Military and conquest, and while conquest requires two wins in a row and has option of rebellion even afterwards means I don't think that needs to be altered further, keeping the die size to only a d6 may well limit the game itself. I would not want the dice to influence the game more than clever play does, but if the die rolls for Military checks were d10-based, that is more the equivalent of occasionally getting a small force beating a superior opponent, though it will still not be often.

The ideal I strive for is to make players always have more than one option for dealing with things, even when they may be losing things in the process. That is why I specifically came up with ways to still be in the game if you lost all your territory, though there is a time limit on that (until the death of your current character). "Losing should be fun" is a thing a good game designer should keep in mind, even if it sounds rather counter-intuitive to players at first.

I heartily approve of all this. I'm fine with a d10 roll, as it'll help on both sides, and make it more interesting. Though a 2d6 would also serve the purpose, while equalizing it a little bit more.

[QuintonBeck]

Rereading the rules reminded me of something that bothers me though.

Military score, number of units, and applicable technologies easily eclipse the d6. I mean for example Quinton is marching 4000 troops south and has a military score of 8. So he has a d6+12 right now with no technological bonuses. Meanwhile Thunderfist's ruler has a military score of 2 and a single army, so d6+3. In the absolute worst case scenario for QuintonBeck he still wins the fight and destroys Thunderfist's only army. The dice honestly don't matter, and this is not a high-op scenario.

TL;DR: I feel we should use a larger dice or lower the bonuses, because a d6 doesn't really affect much.

Ugh! SHHH!! Come on guys! Here I am trying to promote peace and friendliness and you guys are ratting me out! Come on now!

With all the changes flying about, notably militia and die changes I would like a definitive answer on how this round will go as far as attacking is concerned. After all, my actions were kinda dependent on the original system so if things are gonna change drastically this round (and yeah, these are kinda minor changes in a big picture sense but they make a big impact on my current choices) then I'd like to know so I can alter my actions appropriately before the 11th hour.