Mass Effect 3 Part III: The important part is not whining, it's participosting

[Gaius Marius]

Let's fire-up this one, since we hit page 50!

(If you don't like the title, we can always edit it to something more witty. I just want to poke fun at the Elemental of Whine that are lurking around )

Now that I finished ME2, I can't wait to see the ending chapter!!! Reapers, beware!!!

Edit: Here is my personnal tentative to redempt my failpost

First Thread

Second Thread

[Zevox]

Bah, I was about to start a new one .

Oh, and this is actually the third ME3 thread. The OP of the previous one didn't label it thread 2 for some reason, but she did include a link to the first thread in the first post, so you can double check that if you want.

Anyway, as a discussion-starter until discussions from the end of the last thread get imported, anybody else surprised that we don't have more confirmed companions at this point? There's only two months left until release but all we have confirmed are those that we've known about for more than half a year, and they're all ME1 companions (plus the one new guy, Vega). That's not much - with one of Kaiden or Ash dead and Wrex not confirmed (and probably unlikely to be a companion due to his new leadership role among his people) it actually means that so far we know of fewer companions for ME3 than we had companions in ME1.

Zevox

[Gaius Marius]

Anyway, as a discussion-starter until discussions from the end of the last thread get imported, anybody else surprised that we don't have more confirmed companions at this point? There's only two months left until release but all we have confirmed are those that we've known about for more than half a year, and they're all ME1 companions (plus the one new guy, Vega). That's not much - with one of Kaiden or Ash dead and Wrex not confirmed (and probably unlikely to be a companion due to his new leadership role among his people) it actually means that so far we know of fewer companions for ME3 than we had companions in ME1.

Zevox

I am not entirely surprised we don't know much. I like the idea of having characters being only temporarily present in the game, or a surprise presence.

Liara and Legion in ME2 were both great surprises in ME2. I like the idea of mission-specific companions. Or many assigning some team members to side-mission and have them perform differently based on whom you selected, kinda like in the final chapter of ME2.

[chiasaur11]

So, the Illusive Man.

Anyone hope a sidequest is hunting him down, sticking a pistol to his head, and holding the trigger until it goes "Click"?

Because I, for one, do not want to do that.

Spoiler

Show

I want to feed him to Thresher Maws. Poetic justice.

[Gaius Marius]

So, the Illusive Man.

Anyone hope a sidequest is hunting him down, sticking a pistol to his head, and holding the trigger until it goes "Click"?

Because I, for one, do not want to do that.

Spoiler

Show

I want to feed him to Thresher Maws. Poetic justice.

Apparently..

Spoiler

Show

Cerberus goes rogue and indoctrinated in ME3, so the whole idea of redeeming the organisation is moot now

[horngeek]

My opinion of Cerberus? As Miranda describes its role (human equivalent to Salarian STG) it's a good idea.

The execution just leaves a lot to be desired.

[Sarone]

My opinion of Cerberus? As Miranda describes its role (human equivalent to Salarian STG) it's a good idea.

The execution just leaves a lot to be desired.

Which execution?

I do admit to be a little ticked at the number of companions you will have access to. Frankly, playing through ME 1, I wasn't very thrilled by Kaiden or Williamson.

I just hope that you can put some of the people (Tali and Garrus) in charge of teams/ships/strikeforces.

Basically, since they are bringing every one back (that survived ME 1 and 2) in as part time party members, that'll be decent. But I want final say on who I want to bring with me when we take the fight to the Reapers.

Another thing that is also ticking me off a bit is the fact that we may not get the Cerberus crew from ME 2. Frankly, if I went into the dragon's den to get them, I want them on my ship unless something prevents them from doing so (faily and such, or the fact they want to head for the hills).

[Zevox]

I do admit to be a little ticked at the number of companions you will have access to. Frankly, playing through ME 1, I wasn't very thrilled by Kaiden or Williamson.

Oh, I'm not assuming that the announced five are all we'll have, I'm just surprised that more haven't been announced yet.

Zevox

[Xondoure]

I'll say it once more... if there isn't a way to repair the Normandy's lighting I am writing a formal complaint to Bioware begging them to add it as DLC.

[ShinyRocks]

Seriously. The Normandy 2 was so much swishier than the Normandy. And you could SEE. If they get all 'this is a military vessel, that means poor lighting and no soft furnishings', I'm going to be a sad panda.

[ninja_penguin]

My opinion of Cerberus? As Miranda describes its role (human equivalent to Salarian STG) it's a good idea.

The execution just leaves a lot to be desired.

I always found a serious disconnect of the attitudes of Miranda and Jacob re: Cerberus compared to Cerberus in practice in almost every other instance of your interactions with them. I honestly had a hard time believing that my sole survivor renegade biotic Shep wouldn't just immediately try and reduce both of them into paste and run off with the Newmandy.

[Xondoure]

I don't know, crazy attempt to bring one man back from the dead by throwing money at the problem until something goes horribly wrong and the facility is blown up along with most of the staff? Sounds like pretty standard Cerberus fare to me.

[Aotrs Commander]

Seriously. The Normandy 2 was so much swishier than the Normandy. And you could SEE. If they get all 'this is a military vessel, that means poor lighting and no soft furnishings', I'm going to be a sad panda.

I dunno, I always though the Normandy 2 just seemed...empty. It felt like they'd just doubled the size of the ship and re-skinned it, without filling the extra space with anything (in the areas that were updated versions of the old one - the new areas were kinda okay in that regard.). I just found that the wasted open space was jarring and it didn't seem logical you'd have large open spaces like on the new bridge on a starship and not use them for something. The first one felt more like a military starship should look like, I thought.

Maybe they'll have used the space a bit better in ME 3. Guess we'll see...

[Sarone]

You can always hope. I do admit that I liked the stairs in the first Normandy.

[ShinyRocks]

To be honest, as long as they turn the lights on, I'll be happy.

[Gaius Marius]

Agreed a bit. Let's take a look at the parts of SR-2:

- captain's quarters. Got nothing about that part. It's a capt's prerogative to have special quarter, and it's a relatively exposed part of the ship, so better not put essential ship components.

- Bridge + cockpit. That's reasonable
- CiC: do seem to have a bit of wasted space. But then again, in a crisis, you might want to have lots of space for crewman to run in both direction without bumping into each other.
- Armory: it does seems oversized. But I have no idea how large an armory actually is.
- laboratory. Except for the Northen part of the room with the upgrade consoles, it seems appropriate
- conference room/com room: meh. Wasted space, I'd say. Could be done 60% of available space. But it's judiciously located. Close to CiC, but privately located far from the crew's ears.

- crew quarters: okay
- bathrooms: useless waste of space to have 2 of them. Provides a funny joke once, but that's about it.
- observation rooms: horrible waste of space to have 2 of them. Although before being squatted by team members, might provide an appropriate R&R areas.
- life support: way oversized. Way too much wasted space there.
- miranda's office: waste. So much waste of perfectly good silicone..
- gunnery station: fine
- on the way to gunnery station: sleep pods? Why?!? Don't you have crew quarters?!
- eating room: that's actually fine in my book. The crew needs a "relax" location.
- sickbay: fine
- AI core: fine. This setup is what the Life Support shout have been. Cramped but functionnable.

Engine rooms + cargo bays looked fine, albeit a bit unused. Would have loved to see the cargo bays being cramped with crates as I gathered million of tons of ore

Overall, the ship seemed more functional than anwadte of space. You could outfit it with 20+ marines if you cramped the social space with sleep pods, used the observation decks are training areas and R&R.

[Landis963]

Agreed a bit. Let's take a look at the parts of SR-2:

- captain's quarters. Got nothing about that part. It's a capt's prerogative to have special quarter, and it's a relatively exposed part of the ship, so better not put essential ship components.

I know my Shepard, for one, would sleep a little easier if it weren't so exposed relative to the rest of the ship, but he's not complaining about his new apartment.

- Bridge + cockpit. That's reasonable
- CiC: do seem to have a bit of wasted space. But then again, in a crisis, you might want to have lots of space for crewman to run in both direction without bumping into each other.

CIC and Bridge is apparently Turian design, intended to give the commanding officer the most possible space and greatest view of underlings. That said, Shepard gravitates to the cockpit in a crisis, and the Galaxy Map/grand majority of the CIC is completely ignored.

- Armory: it does seems oversized. But I have no idea how large an armory actually is.
- laboratory. Except for the Northen part of the room with the upgrade consoles, it seems appropriate
- conference room/com room: meh. Wasted space, I'd say. Could be done 60% of available space. But it's judiciously located. Close to CiC, but privately located far from the crew's ears.

And here we come to the greatest issue of the Normandy SR-2: Wasted space. There is no reason for either the lab or the armory to look out onto the Eezo core, and the space could just as easily be used as apartments for Mordin and Jacob, respectively.

- crew quarters: okay
...
- on the way to gunnery station: sleep pods? Why?!? Don't you have crew quarters?!

As I recall, there were sleep pods there on the original Normandy as well. However, they are useless with the bunk beds, although I'm not sure that Crew Quarters + Sleep pods (as shown in game)= enough for the Normandy SR-2's crew

- bathrooms: useless waste of space to have 2 of them. Provides a funny joke once, but that's about it.

Symmetry, plus "technically a civilian vessel"

- observation rooms: horrible waste of space to have 2 of them. Although before being squatted by team members, might provide an appropriate R&R areas.
- life support: way oversized. Way too much wasted space there.

See above w/ Lab and armory complaints. Also, If Kasumi has the space to set up a bar and a VR gaming system, something is terribly wrong.

- miranda's office: waste. So much waste of perfectly good silicone..

I see what you did there. And frankly, her office suite is one of the least egregious of all the large spaces.

- gunnery station: fine
- eating room: that's actually fine in my book. The crew needs a "relax" location.
- sickbay: fine
- AI core: fine. This setup is what the Life Support shout have been. Cramped but functionnable.

Sickbay could have used a little less space, although again, not milspec anymore.

Engine rooms + cargo bays looked fine, albeit a bit unused. Would have loved to see the cargo bays being cramped with crates as I gathered million of tons of ore

Extra disposable cover for the Oculus battle, Yay! However, there was no reason for the picture windows onto the eezo core, especially since Miranda insists on dragging you there for her sex scene.

Overall, the ship seemed more functional than anwadte of space. You could outfit it with 20+ marines if you cramped the social space with sleep pods, used the observation decks are training areas and R&R.

"anwadte"? Is that a typo (of "a waste" perhaps)? Also, with so much extra space, there has to be room for emergency kinetic barrier generators (in case of boarders), especially since we see such barriers in place after the main mission, with the technician working on some exposed circuitry. That would make the Collector invasion much more difficult for them.

[Aotrs Commander]

Agreed a bit. Let's take a look at the parts of SR-2:
- CiC: do seem to have a bit of wasted space. But then again, in a crisis, you might want to have lots of space for crewman to run in both direction without bumping into each other.- eating room: that's actually fine in my book. The crew needs a "relax" location.

I think it was mainly the CiC and the mess that was my biggest problem, as they didn't appear to have filled the space much, especially as they were the closest to the much-more-real-feeling (in terms of space) Normandy 1 designs. At least they could have put some equipment lockers on the outside walls in the former or something or more tables in the latter. It just looked particularly barren.

Heck, I think there was less open space on the freaking Enterprise D in Ten-Forward than on the Normandy 2's crew deck, which was what bugged me. It looked half-furnished. (Were Cerberus planning to hold formal balls or something...?)

I thought there was plenty enough room on the original CiC; more than you'd see on a real military ship, especially on a submarine, say, so the space certainly shouldn't be needed for running around as you suggest it might have. (Besides, you wouldn't really want people to be running around in a crisis. If it occurs that people have to be running to and fro on such a regular basis it requires leaving that much space for it, something must have gone seriously wrong in the design phase...!)

Overall, the rest of the ship could have used some tightening up in terms of space utility, but it was the bareness of those two locations that stood out to me most when first running around.

[Gaius Marius]

Yhea, anwadte is "a waste". Bloody iPhone.

You make a good point about being in the cockpit in a crunch. It does makes the CiC useless in that regard. I do like being in a centralized location when I leave the Star Map, tho.

Yhea, sleep pod + crew quarters was stupid. I do believe we have ennough for everybody. There is, what, 20+ beds?

You don't like my silicone resource allocation priority? Do explain

And why is miranda's office not egregious? She is my XO, she should be on the bridge where Presley was. Not sulking in an earshot location to where the crew relax and is OFF DUTY. The XO's job isn't to harass the crew when they are trying to decompress, but have them sharp when they are on duty.

Agreed about more internal defenses. But I do believe the ship need more marines in addition to my personal Badass Contingent. 10-15 marines wouldn't be superfluous.

[Landis963]

Yhea, anwadte is "a waste". Bloody iPhone.

You make a good point about being in the cockpit in a crunch. It does makes the CiC useless in that regard. I do like being in a centralized location when I leave the Star Map, tho.

Yhea, sleep pod + crew quarters was stupid. I do believe we have ennough for everybody. There is, what, 20+ beds?

You don't like my silicone resource allocation priority? Do explain

And why is miranda's office not egregious? She is my XO, she should be on the bridge where Presley was. Not sulking in an earshot location to where the crew relax and is OFF DUTY. The XO's job isn't to harass the crew when they are trying to decompress, but have them sharp when they are on duty.

Agreed about more internal defenses. But I do believe the ship need more marines in addition to my personal Badass Contingent. 10-15 marines wouldn't be superfluous.

I'm wondering how many manned consoles there are on the bridge. As I recall, there are ~ten people on the consoles, not counting the standing members working on and around the CIC (standing members includes Kelly, FYI). That's half the crew quarters right there, and I'm not out of the main deck yet. I'm guesstimating another five around the CIC, plus Kelly, then going down a deck, plus the two in the crew quarters, the three at the table, and Rupert, and that's 22 beds required in all. However, I can't think of any others besides Engineers Donnelly and Daniels, bringing it up to 24 total visible crew members who require sleeping quarters. Which means that the bunk beds can get smaller and more numerous, and the sleeping pods can go. Or the sleeping pods can go to that marine contingent on your wishlist.

I said that Miranda's office was one of the least egregious, not that her position was one of the least egregious. Also, my Shepard would want to circumvent Cerberus as much as possible, which means avoiding her. Also, not sure why she gets a queen bed.

EDIT: Re: the silicone resource allocation: Those aren't silicone, remember?

[Gaius Marius]

I said that Miranda's office was one of the least egregious, not that her position was one of the least egregious. Also, my Shepard would want to circumvent Cerberus as much as possible, which means avoiding her. Also, not sure why she gets a queen bed.

EDIT: Re: the silicone resource allocation: Those aren't silicone, remember?

"Inspire Crew Loyalty"

Cerberus did proved not to be above these kind of indoctrination techniques...

Gives a new meaning to the "Crewmember of the month" award

[chiasaur11]

"Inspire Crew Loyalty"

Cerberus did proved not to be above these kind of indoctrination techniques...

Gives a new meaning to the "Crewmember of the month" award

What?

That's absurd!

That's Kelly's job.

[Xondoure]

What?

That's absurd!

That's Kelly's job.

Leaving this here.

[Gaius Marius]

What?

That's absurd!

That's Kelly's job.

Kelly is crewmember of the week.

Miranda, of the month

[horngeek]

On the bunk beds: you actually only really need enough to have a third of the crew sleeping at any one time. Since only a single shift needs to be asleep at any one time.

[Thanatos 51-50]

Agreed a bit. Let's take a look at the parts of SR-2:

- captain's quarters. Got nothing about that part. It's a capt's prerogative to have special quarter, and it's a relatively exposed part of the ship, so better not put essential ship components.

Essential Ship Components. Like the CO? That one is pretty essential.

- Bridge + cockpit. That's reasonable
- CiC: do seem to have a bit of wasted space. But then again, in a crisis, you might want to have lots of space for crewman to run in both direction without bumping into each other.
- Armory: it does seems oversized. But I have no idea how large an armory actually is.

For the record, the "I" stands for Information. There's no reason to make it lowercase.
The large, circular Star Map is the only real problem I see with the CIC, but that could be potentially useful if it were rigged to, say, project detailed topographical maps for important briefings, but isn't that what happens in the Comms room? The long neck of more consoles between the CIC and the helm is another slight issue of mine, but I guess that's me thinking the CIC should be near the keel of the ship and the helm topside, which is incongruous with a bloody space ship and/or possibly Turian design.

- laboratory. Except for the Northen part of the room with the upgrade consoles, it seems appropriate
- conference room/com room: meh. Wasted space, I'd say. Could be done 60% of available space. But it's judiciously located. Close to CiC, but privately located far from the crew's ears.

Lab could probably do with a cutting down, in my opinion, but I'm not too versed in cross-species genetics.
The Comms room is slightly redundant, but redundancy and a secured space for classified briefings is never a bad idea.

- crew quarters: okay
- bathrooms: useless waste of space to have 2 of them. Provides a funny joke once, but that's about it.
- observation rooms: horrible waste of space to have 2 of them. Although before being squatted by team members, might provide an appropriate R&R areas.

The Berths (What you referred to as "Crew Quarters" are monument to wasted space. Almost no coffins racks what you civilians call "beds" available. With the aforementioned small crew compliment, however, this is, potentially not a problem. It's nice to see the CO isn't picky about gender segregation.
The two separate heads er, "Bathrooms", is probably a holdover or a socially-mandated occurrence. Most modern warships have one head bathroom per berth crew living quarter. If anything, they don't have enough hygiene stations (Say, for example, showers), and only one head per gender stretched across four decks of ship? That's begging for trouble.
Observation decks aren't shabby, actually, I like the idea of two of them "To the port side of the ship is <Stellar Body>, to the Starboard is <Other stellar body>. Modern warships allow sailors up onto the weather decks, I don't see why this wouldn't be accounted for on a space-faring vessel. They could be smaller, though. Perhaps have some bulkheads walls moved so you can have properly sized heads bathrooms.

- life support: way oversized. Way too much wasted space there.
- miranda's office: waste. So much waste of perfectly good silicone..
- gunnery station: fine
- on the way to gunnery station: sleep pods? Why?!? Don't you have crew quarters?!

I'd like to hear more details about the "oversized" life-support compartment.
The XO (which, by the way, Miranda is) gets their own quarters, too. Most Officers only needs to share berth with one or two bunkmates on modern warships. Why should spaceships be different? (I'd also note that the SR-1 had the XO (And later, CO) quarters in the same location.
Sleeping Pods makes sense. Maybe your LADAR techs or other anonymous ratings need to "hot rack" it or "Collect Dark Matter Samples" occasionally. Plus, if you ever need a Marine contingent, it's right there. They could potentially double as escape/drop pods as well.

- eating room: that's actually fine in my book. The crew needs a "relax" location.
- sickbay: fine
- AI core: fine. This setup is what the Life Support shout have been. Cramped but functionnable.

Galley "eating room" is too small for the crew compliment, with no separate Officer's mess. This is a rather slapdash approach to a more communal, Socialist structure, and one that has no use on a military vessel. It's downright shameful in its current state.

The rest has been *snipp'd* for lack of commentary.

[Gaius Marius]

If you have a point to make beside nitpicking the details I went through the pain of mentionning before actually making MY point, please do so.

Otherwhise, you're nitpicking just for the sake of it, and it's a bit annoying.

[Thanatos 51-50]

Offering my take on your complaints, which was really just pointless nitpicking on your part?

So... participating?

"I believe the SR-2 is quite functional, really." would have probably sparked a "How so?"

[Gaius Marius]

Offering my take on your complaints, which was really just pointless nitpicking on your part?

So... participating?

"I believe the SR-2 is quite functional, really." would have probably sparked a "How so?"

So... you actually believe was a nicely designed ship, albeit could be made more efficiently?

Hmm.. you know, it'd be nice to have fan-made Normandy-2R designs.

Hell, I'd love to have a bit of ME3 played in a cruiser or a dreadnought.

[Landis963]

On the bunk beds: you actually only really need enough to have a third of the crew sleeping at any one time. Since only a single shift needs to be asleep at any one time.

Which is why I was counting up the number of crewmembers: All the beds are empty, we can't see into the sleeper pods, and there are ~26 or so crewmembers awake, lucid enough to converse, and working at the same time. Explain THAT.