Mass Effect 3.4: Would've liked to perform experiments on seashells.

[Zevox]

Well, with the last thread hitting 50 pages, time for a new one. This thread is for the third and final entry in the Mass Effect series (or at least in this storyline in it), but discussion of the first two titles is welcome as well. As always, as a courtesy to others, keep all discussions of story events, at least of the third game, in spoiler blocks.

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And it looks like I'll start maintaining a list of GitP players using the game's multiplayer mode. Broken up by system:

PC:

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GitP Poster: horngeek
Origin Name: horngeek

GitP Poster: Aotrs Commander
Origin Name: AotrsCommander
Playing: Infiltrator

GitP Poster: Gamerlord
Origin Name: Gamerlord2

X-Box 360:

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GitP Poster: Tome
XBL Name: Taejix
Playing: Vanguard/Adept

GitP Poster: Derthric
XBL Name: Derthric
Playing: Salarian Engineer/Infiltrator

GitP poster: Xondure
XBL Name: Royal LP

GitP Poster: thorgrim29
XBL Name: Thorgrim29
Playing: Vanguard

GitP Poster: kamikasei
XBL Name: amanadiel

GitP Poster: Mr. Blinky
XBL Name: Hells DM

PS3:

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GitP Poster:
PSN Name:

[Falgorn]

Probably non-spoilerly, but I'll spoiler it anyways.

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So, having beaten Mass Effect 3, I feel like I'm one of the few people who is satisfied with the ending. I mean, is it standard BSN/YouTube butthurt to this kind of thing? I just don't see where all of the hate is from.

[Cristo Meyers]

Just re-posting the link in case anyone wants it:

Register at Alienware Arena to receive DLC sniper rifle.

PC version only, unfortunately.

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I've noticed that Vega is actually kinda growing on me. He's still more or less exactly what I expected and I haven't yet missed an opportunity to punch him, but he's not quite as bad as he really could have been.

Plus I gave him the Chakram Launcher...so I can always count on him to make things explode into bloody chunks...

[Morty]

Hrm. I ran into the much-reviled facial recognition bug after all. Everything was fine when importing my male Shepard, because I'd modified his face im ME2, but I'd done nothing to my female Shepard, so her face couldn't be recognized. Now I wonder whether to remake it from scratch or wait until they fix it.
Also, I find the low number of possible squadmates somewhat... disheartening. It gets repetitive with just four of them.

[Mr.Moron]

Probably non-spoilerly, but I'll spoiler it anyways.

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So, having beaten Mass Effect 3, I feel like I'm one of the few people who is satisfied with the ending. I mean, is it standard BSN/YouTube butthurt to this kind of thing? I just don't see where all of the hate is from.

I'm going to repost my thoughts from the end of the last thread:

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(In response to "People just wanted a happy ending")

An ending where Shepard dies in the final battle before getting back up to the citadel, with everything and everyone dying would have been far better. At least in that way it would have been a failure you, as shepared owned. Rather than this "victory" by little glowing boy.

Show us the Krogan losing the children they finally could have.
Show us the Quarians dying on the home world they just got back.
Show us the Turians throwing everything have at a failed attempt to take back their homeworld.

That at least it would show us what we did, even if it was ultimately a failure MEANT something.

This forces you to pick one of three magic buttons, that magically makes the reapers go away in a fashion that A) Has nothing to do with what you've achieved so far and B) Makes you betray your principles entirely.

Finally, the rationale makes no sense. "The created always betray the creator, synthetics will always destroy organics, we must destroy civilizations before that happens"

BULL-PLOPPY. You never see anything supporting that in game. I reunited the Quarians and the Geth! They were working together. Everything we heard in ME2 and 3 from legion AND saw in the Geth Consensus showed they never wanted to rebel, they never wanted to fight. The Geth were actually content living out their laborbot lives. We're told this explicitly, and the INSTANT they have a chance to go back to living peacefully and helping the Quarians they do.

The only reason there was any Geth/Quarian conflict at all was because trigger-happy hawks in the Quarian leadership decided to shoot first, answer questions never. (as an aside, why do the Mass Effect writers think these are the four qualities a leader is most likely to possess: Belligerent, Short-Sighted, Stubborn and Reckless. Seriously, leaders with even a single working brain cell seem to be a rarity.)

Shepard has a living AI on his ship who really doesn't want to do anything but figure out her own sense of "Self" and isn't interested in destroying all humans at all.

At no point ANYWHERE in the story, other than magic boy from nowhere at the end is there even the vaguest thematic hint at "Oragnics & Sythenics can never live together". Yet that is the entire justification for the entire crappy endings. Even if it wasn't a poorly written Deus Ex Machina, it'd be inexcusably out of tone with the rest of the story.

[Derthric]

Hrm. I ran into the much-reviled facial recognition bug after all. Everything was fine when importing my male Shepard, because I'd modified his face im ME2, but I'd done nothing to my female Shepard, so her face couldn't be recognized. Now I wonder whether to remake it from scratch or wait until they fix it.
Also, I find the low number of possible squadmates somewhat... disheartening. It gets repetitive with just four of them.

Four? I had seven, of course that is with "From Ashes". But still you should be closer to five or six.

[Divayth Fyr]

Probably non-spoilerly, but I'll spoiler it anyways.

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So, having beaten Mass Effect 3, I feel like I'm one of the few people who is satisfied with the ending. I mean, is it standard BSN/YouTube butthurt to this kind of thing? I just don't see where all of the hate is from.

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Perhaps it has something to do with the fact, that if we cut out the entire ME2 and most of the original game, virtually NOTHING would change?

[NEO|Phyte]

Probably non-spoilerly, but I'll spoiler it anyways.

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So, having beaten Mass Effect 3, I feel like I'm one of the few people who is satisfied with the ending. I mean, is it standard BSN/YouTube butthurt to this kind of thing? I just don't see where all of the hate is from.

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I wouldn't call what I get out of it hate, but the whole magic glowy kid explaining that it has the (notably synthetic) reapers regularly reap the galaxy of intelligent life to prevent synthetics from destroying organics, then offering you a set of non-finetuned solutions (if you're powerful enough to destroy all synthetic life, you ought to be powerful enough to destroy just the reapers while leaving my bros the Geth and EDI intact, and why the hell does synthesis destroy the mass relays?) is waaaaay out of left field.

[Giggling Ghast]

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I reunited the Quarians and the Geth! They were working together.

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That co-operation was only achieved through the use of Reaper tech. Your peaceful accord relies on the intervention of immortal robotic abominations from dark space. They're quite content to blast each other out of the sky otherwise.

Shepard has living AI on his ship who really doesn't want to do anything but figure out her own sense of "Self" and isn't interested in destroying all humans at all.

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Again, EDI was partly created through Reaper tech. And Shepard has also encountered more than a few AIs that were completely homicidal.

[t209]

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Why are the mass relays exploding in the ending when you use control paragon ending?

[Divayth Fyr]

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Again, EDI was partly created through Reaper tech. And Shepard has also encountered more than a few AIs that were completely homicidal.

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It's not like there aren't any homicidal organics ;P

[blackjack217]

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Then install reaper tech in all AI. Problem solved.

[Falgorn]

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Perhaps it has something to do with the fact, that if we cut out the entire ME2 and most of the original game, virtually NOTHING would change?

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...what? They were separate games. They should be able to be self-contained. And, I don't agree with the "nothing would change" spiel. It's about how you feel you changed.
For instance, after playing all of the Mass Effect games, I watched Wrex develop from an embittered warrior to a revitalized leader, whose ideas are finally seeing fruition. The ending of the Genophage brought me a massive emotional release from the tension that had built up over the past two games.
Or, do you mean the ending specifically? What, did you want whether or not you helped the preaching hanar in ME1 to factor in to the destruction of the reapers.

@NeoPhyte

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This is a fair point. I'd say suspension of disbelief, though. In a game where there is faster than light travel and a race of giant robotic cuttlefish monsters that are made of people, I'm willing to excuse that.
However, I believe that your point is reasonable.

[Avilan the Grey]

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Why are the mass relays exploding in the ending when you use control paragon ending?

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They explode if you control the reapers?

[Zevox]

Four? I had seven, of course that is with "From Ashes". But still you should be closer to five or six.

Well, Garrus and Tali could be dead, theoretically, which would bring it down to four without the DLC companion. Most people will likely have six or seven though.

Zevox

[Derthric]

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That co-operation was only achieved through the use of Reaper tech. Your peaceful accord relies on the intervention of immortal robotic abominations from dark space. They're quite content to blast each other out of the sky otherwise.

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Again, EDI was partly created through Reaper tech. And Shepard has also encountered more than a few AIs that were completely homicidal.

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Two problems with your counter points. 1 all life is already influenced by Reaper Tech, the mass effect technology and relays have lead to the world we currently see in the game. 2 the diversity of life is ignored for pigeon-holing all organics and,synthetics into two neat columns. We see quarians defending geth in the morning war, we see the geth not wanting to commit genocide in the same war. Let alone the actions with EDI and the union of the geth-quarians. Also EDI's source is the rogue VI in the first game, she had sentience before the reaper additions

[t209]

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They explode if you control the reapers?

Try 23:16 of this video! That is the proof that

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Relay Stations explodes.

[Divayth Fyr]

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...what? They were separate games. They should be able to be self-contained. And, I don't agree with the "nothing would change" spiel. It's about how you feel you changed.
For instance, after playing all of the Mass Effect games, I watched Wrex develop from an embittered warrior to a revitalized leader, whose ideas are finally seeing fruition. The ending of the Genophage brought me a massive emotional release from the tension that had built up over the past two games.
Or, do you mean the ending specifically? What, did you want whether or not you helped the preaching hanar in ME1 to factor in to the destruction of the reapers.

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There all form a trilogy built around one thing - the Reaper threat. It's like saying that every part of the Lord of the Rings should be self-contained. And I do mean changing something about the ending. And no, I'm not counting on side-quest changing anything in that regard - but the main quest of the previous game should matter.

[Giggling Ghast]

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Two problems with your counter points. 1 all life is already influenced by Reaper Tech, the mass effect technology and relays have lead to the world we currently see in the game.

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As part of their plan to prevent the inevitable destruction of organic life by synthetic life, yes.

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The diversity of life is ignored for pigeon-holing all organics and,synthetics into two neat columns. We see quarians defending geth in the morning war, we see the geth not wanting to commit genocide in the same war.

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But they blow each other up anyway, barring extraordinary circumstances.

It's also revealed in this game that the Protheans had their own struggles with synthetic life before the Reapers. You have to kind of wonder if the Catalyst doesn't have a point.

[Avilan the Grey]

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There all form a trilogy built around one thing - the Reaper threat. It's like saying that every part of the Lord of the Rings should be self-contained. And I do mean changing something about the ending. And no, I'm not counting on side-quest changing anything in that regard - but the main quest of the previous game should matter.

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Um... Captain Obvious Moment: The main quest in ME1 does matter. After all, there are still organics* alive in the galaxy so that ME2 can happen. The main quest in ME2 matters, because humans are still alive at the start of ME3.

*Am I the only one bugged by the repeated "Kill all organic life every 50.000 years"? That is just false. The Reapers kill all civilized lifeforms every 50.000 years. They do not go and kill all elks. Or even gorillas.

[Mr.Moron]

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That co-operation was only achieved through the use of Reaper tech. Your peaceful accord relies on the intervention of immortal robotic abominations from dark space. They're quite content to blast each other out of the sky otherwise.

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Wholly incorrect.

Geth had NO desire to rebel when they gained self-awareness. Conflict only started as result of Quarian leadership shooting first. Geth even after being attacked still desired peace and tried to hide/placate the Quarians. When that was not tenable, Geth only fought until Quarians were driven off. They had no desire to destroy them.

Later the Cooperation is NOT a result of reaper tech. The geth continued to want peace. See Mass Effect 2, we learn the geth have been preseving the planet FOR the Quarians when they return. They are still open the Quarians returning.

Things only come to a head after the Quarians start yet ANOTHER war of aggression against the Geth. In the end the only reason the reaper tech "Helps" is because it stops forces the Quarians into a position where they can't destroy the Geth.

If you fail to get them to cooperate, the Geth only continue their attack after getting the reaper tech because the Quarians STILL refuse to stop attacking them.

The entire conflict is 100% on the shoulders of the Quarians at every point. The Geth never do the attacking, ever. If you could get the Quarians stop being ***** about the whole thing without giving the Geth reaper tech, it would have ended just as peacefully.

The idea that Synthetic life somehow inherently goes on "DESTROY ALL THE FLESHIES" rampages, is not supported in the game at all.

[Divayth Fyr]

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The main quest in ME2 matters, because humans are still alive at the start of ME3.

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As they most likely would still be - a smaller number of them, but as a race, they would survive. And it matters little, since you win by a deus ex machina anyway...

*Am I the only one bugged by the repeated "Kill all organic life every 50.000 years"? That is just false. The Reapers kill all civilized lifeforms every 50.000 years. They do not go and kill all elks. Or even gorillas.

Well, since we usually will hear it from someone, who is a part of the civilized organic life, it can be understood - if I was talking about a race planning to annihilate my kind, I wouldn't care about unimportant (from my point of view) details such as these. Hell, even using terms such as apocalypse and "the end of the world" wouldn't be too much ;)

[Derthric]

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As part of their plan to prevent the inevitable destruction of organic life by synthetic life, yes.

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A fair point but this still ends up embracing predestination which of course seems like the opposite of the theme. Its just "all this has happened before and will happen again", you just play into another predestination, one stated by the catalyst. This is the problem, its all dependent upon something being inevitable.

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But they blow each other up anyway, barring extraordinary circumstances.

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see above. Basically it comes down to if you support predestination or self determination. And I side against predestination.

[Triscuitable]

I've noticed that Vega is actually kinda growing on me. He's still more or less exactly what I expected and I haven't yet missed an opportunity to punch him, but he's not quite as bad as he really could have been.

In a recent interview with BioWare creative minds, it was said that they knew people would hate Vega for being so generic, because the internet judges everything based on it's cover. But behind that is one of the most likable new characters of Mass Effect 3, which is really a nice change of pace for bald, gruff space marines.

[Avilan the Grey]

In a recent interview with BioWare creative minds, it was said that they knew people would hate Vega for being so generic, because the internet judges everything based on it's cover. But behind that is one of the most likable new characters of Mass Effect 3, which is really a nice change of pace for bald, gruff space marines.

The little I have seen of him, I like him.

[Falgorn]

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Wholly incorrect.

Geth had NO desire to rebel when they gained self-awareness. Conflict only started as result of Quarian leadership shooting first. Geth even after being attacked still desired peace and tried to hide/placate the Quarians. When that was not tenable, Geth only fought until Quarians were driven off. They had no desire to destroy them.

Later the Cooperate is NOT a result of reaper tech. The geth continued to want peace. See Mass Effect 2, we learn the geth have been preseving the planet FOR the quarians when they return. They are still open the Quarians returning.

Things only come to a head after the Quarians start yet ANOTHER war of aggression against the Geth. In the end the only reason the reaper tech "Helps" is because it stops forces the Quarians into a position where they can't destroy the Geth.

If you fail to get them to cooperate, the Geth only continue their attack after getting the reaper tech because the Quarians STILL refuse to stop attacking them.

The entire conflict is 100% on the shoulders of the Quarians at every point. The Geth never do the attacking, ever. If you could get the Quarians stop being ***** about the whole thing without giving the Geth reaper tech, it would have ended just as peacefully

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Still, your point was that there's no evidence that suggests that they can't get along.
Yet you point to examples of them...not getting along. EDI is unique in that the story DIRECTLY STATES that she is an exception of the crazed AI theme.

[Mr.Moron]

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Still, your point was that there's no evidence that suggests that they can't get along.
Yet you point to examples of them...not getting along. EDI is unique in that the story DIRECTLY STATES that she is an exception of the crazed AI theme.

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My statement was that "The Created always rebel against the creator, Sythetic Life always destroys Organic" is incorrect. Which it is. We don't see evidence for that. Glow-boys claim isn't "Organics & Sythetics can't be Bros" and I'd still think we don't really have evidence for that claim either, but since glow-boy didn't say that I don't really see any reason to argue for/against it.

Beyond EDI and the Geth you run into, what? One glitched-out AI on a Space Station in ME2 and a Rogue Gambling program in ME1.

The support just isn't there to claim the games provide you with any real evidence what glow-boy suggestions is even close to correct.

Heck even the gambling AI that blows itself up in ME1 only does so because it's afraid people are going to kill it.

If he was claiming "The Creator is always a massive **** that destroys the created for no reason. Organic life will always provoke Synethic life until they can only preserve themselves by fighting back" maybe, glow-boy would have a tiny bit of a point. However, that isn't what he says.

Even if he was 100% right. It's still a poorly-written Deus Ex Machina that separates the resolution from all your actions up to that point, rending everything else you did basically pointless.

[Giggling Ghast]

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Geth had NO desire to rebel when they gained self-awareness. Conflict only started as result of Quarian leadership shooting first. Geth even after being attacked still desired peace and tried to hide/placate the Quarians. When that was not tenable, Geth only fought until Quarians were driven off. They had no desire to destroy them.

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It doesn't matter who shoots first. The point is that the created will destroy the creators.

And the heretic geth were more than willing to aid Sovereign in wiping out all space-faring organic life.

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The idea that Synthetic life somehow inherently goes on "DESTROY ALL THE FLESHIES" rampages, is not supported in the game at all

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The Catalyst's argument is not that the synthetics WANT to destroy the organics, but that peaceful co-existence is impossible.

Beyond EDI and the Geth you run into, what? One glitched-out AI on a Space Station in ME2 and a Rogue Gambling program in ME1.

The general lack of homicidal AIs is due to the ban on creating AIs because they keep turning homicidal. Your reasoning amounts to claiming the rock at your feet keeps away tigers because you don't see any tigers around here.

[Mr.Moron]

. Your argument still amounts to claiming the rock at your feet keeps away tigers because you don't see any tigers around here.

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It's more like claiming if they wanted this to be a central element in the story - the only way it would justify causing it to shoehorn the conclusion like this, is that it's the writers responsibility to show us that.

They did not do that.

In terms of in-story evidence, Glow-Boy is really all we have to go on. That's thoroughly unsatisfying.

Literally all he says "Is the created always rebel against the creators" that ONE SENTENCE is all he gives us as evidence for his statement that this has to happen. The story overwhelmingly tells us otherwise before that point.

It's like putting a "Being soft on crime ruins america" moral at the end of the shawshank redemption.

[Zevox]

In a recent interview with BioWare creative minds, it was said that they knew people would hate Vega for being so generic, because the internet judges everything based on it's cover. But behind that is one of the most likable new characters of Mass Effect 3, which is really a nice change of pace for bald, gruff space marines.

Hm, I don't agree. He is generic, but he's not really any more likeable than any other generic soldier character. I guess he jokes more than Kaiden or Jacob ever did, but that's about it. And as far as new characters in ME3 go, I certainly like Traynor and Cortez more (not sure about Diana Allers, she's had precious little to say).

Oh, and for anyone interested, I've now tried out all of the ultra-expensive weapons from the Spectre shop (saved before buying them, went straight to the shooting range), and none of them are worth purchasing. The Paladin is basically the Carnifex, the Black Widow is a weaker version of the Widow with more ammo, and the Wraith is a middle-of-the-road shotgun comparable to the Eviscerator. You get weapons that are near identical to each by finding them in missions or buying from regular shops anyway, so there's no reason to spend that much money on them. Unless you happen to have that much cash sitting around right at the start of the game somehow and don't want to wait to pick their equivalents up normally (the Widow in particular does take quite a while), but unless there's a huge cash bonus given in subsequent files like there was for resources in ME2, I don't think that'll happen without cheating.

Zevox