OOTS #876 - The Discussion Thread

[Worden]

did he grew an extra finger or something, he is going faster than ever

[super dark33]

Not a D&D player so:

Does Durkon have any suicidal spell options to kill himself before becoming a vampire? (Even if he has to break from being grappled to do it)

Resurrection.

[pearl jam]

did he grew an extra finger or something, he is going faster than ever

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[Bulldog Psion]

Not a D&D player so:

Does Durkon have any suicidal spell options to kill himself before becoming a vampire? (Even if he has to break from being grappled to do it)

There's some kind of self-sacrificing spell in the Book of Exalted Deeds, but it's been too long since I read it to remember what it does. And it's extremely unlikely that Durkon would know it (for one thing, it's not OGL).

[hamishspence]

Non-OGL spells have appeared in the comic before- they've just been lampshaded on first appearance. Tsusiko's Sphere spells spring to mind.

The spell- Phoenix Fire- is 7th level. And brings you back to life as well, 1 level lower.

[Lvl45DM!]

Er.... the biologists says *huh?*

I would hazard a guess that he meant "Those that hold the evolutionary view are impeding my enjoyment by discussing the possible evolutionary path Malacks race took?"

But doesn't Blackwings description of himself as a "super advanced flying stealth dinosaur" advocate evolution in-comic?

Which now that i think about it doesn't make sense since dinosaurs and birds were stuck on Oots-world by gods.

CRAZY THEORY WARNING: There IS no evolution on OotS-world and the only reason Blackwing knows about it is because there IS evolution on the Snarl planet!! BAM!

[hamishspence]

Do try not to make assumptions about widely debated issues, please.

Widely debated? Where?

[Bulldog Psion]

Non-OGL spells have appeared in the comic before- they've just been lampshaded on first appearance. Tsusiko's Sphere spells spring to mind.

The spell- Phoenix Fire- is 7th level. And brings you back to life as well, 1 level lower.

Thanks, it would have bothered me if I couldn't remember what the spell was.

And yes, Tsukiko did use some non-OGL spells, you're right.

[TopCheese]

Widely debated? Where?

Here aparently? I mean some people are on oposite sides of the country/world!

[hamishspence]

Heh. Still, I was always under the impression that "snakes didn't evolve from lizards" was a minuscule minority view- at least among biologists and zoologists. People who have actually studied both snakes and lizards, at least.

[Samalpetey]

Resurrection.

How would this kill Durkon?

[Raineh Daze]

Especially if this his true for D&D Yuan-Ti and Malack is one:

LONGQUOTE WENT HERE

That's not true, by their actual stats (looking at Abominations), they're enormously powerful. Seriously, their lowest stat is still above average for a human, everything else but one is above or equal to normal human maximum.

How do people keep seeing that quote but not anything after it that says it's wrong?

[Cikomyr]

You don't play your trump card first. You play it last, when it will ensure victory. Or better yet, you win without even using it.

Note to self: Do not play life-or-death strategy games vs The Giant

[Smolder]

I would hazard a guess that he meant "Those that hold the evolutionary view are impeding my enjoyment by discussing the possible evolutionary path Malacks race took?"

But doesn't Blackwings description of himself as a "super advanced flying stealth dinosaur" advocate evolution in-comic?

Which now that i think about it doesn't make sense since dinosaurs and birds were stuck on Oots-world by gods.

CRAZY THEORY WARNING: There IS no evolution on OotS-world and the only reason Blackwing knows about it is because there IS evolution on the Snarl planet!! BAM!

1) There is no evolution in OOTS because the world is too young (~1000 years) for natural selection

2) Evolution requires no belief. There is a simple test that can show the % of DNA shared by any two species. From this you can chart the entire tree of life by measuring how far apart species are. For example, you share 98%+ of your DNA with chimps and 30%+ with plants. (http://www.utexas.edu/features/2008/tree/) Therefore there are actual answers to these questions in the Real World. Facts require no belief, only comprehension.

[Deepbluediver]

On the one hand, I think this might be it for Durkon, since playing the Here-Comes-the-Cavalry Card twice in such quick succession seems unlikely. On the other hand, Burlew might be banking on us thinking that very thing.

Took me a little while to think of it, but for this kind of situation, there's precedent.

Which would then make this at least the SECOND time we've had a double cavalry-to-the-rescue (boy this is getting recursive)

[Raineh Daze]

Took me a little while to think of it, but for this kind of situation, there's precedent.

Which would then make this at least the SECOND time we've had a double cavalry-to-the-rescue (boy this is getting recursive)

All of that happened in one strip. Also, there's only so many places you can be inside one house. The situations are very different.

[Adeptus]

Heh. Still, I was always under the impression that "snakes didn't evolve from lizards" was a minuscule minority view- at least among biologists and zoologists. People who have actually studied both snakes and lizards, at least.

I think what we have there is creationist distortion of science rather than a genuine disagreement among taxonomists.

"Based on comparative anatomy, there is consensus that snakes descended from lizards.[5]:11[12] Pythons and boas—primitive groups among modern snakes—have vestigial hind limbs: tiny, clawed digits known as anal spurs, which are used to grasp during mating.[5]:11[13] The Leptotyphlopidae and Typhlopidae groups also possess remnants of the pelvic girdle, sometimes appearing as horny projections when visible."

[hamishspence]

Seems likely.

There's also several examples of lizards with reduced or absent limbs- showing how easy the reduction of limbs as a response to a burrowing environment is.

[Poppatomus]

Just in the interests of not losing a potentially important detail, What is the exact wording of the the prophecy for Durkon? It seems as though the specific line is that his return will bring "death and destruction," not just generic badness or just destruction. Notably, Malak's initial description of Nergal is that he is the "lion headed god of death and destruction." Is it possible that the prophecy is even more specific than we might think?

[hamishspence]

I've been wondering that. Maybe Durkula will be initiated into the clergy of Nergal by Malack, and go back to the Eastern Continent, then North and "bring death and destruction for us all".

[Bulldog Psion]

Just in the interests of not losing a potentially important detail, What is the exact wording of the the prophecy for Durkon? It seems as though the specific line is that his return will bring "death and destruction," not just generic badness or just destruction. Notably, Malak's initial description of Nergal is that he is the "lion headed god of death and destruction." Is it possible that the prophecy is even more specific than we might think?

That's downright creepy, now that you mention it.

[Deepbluediver]

Is it possible that the prophecy is even more specific than we might think?

Always. "Prophecy" is really just a cheap way of getting in an "I told you so" while being so vague and variable that no one could possible have understood what you meant. Especially when you are getting 1-word answers.

Seriously, how many literary examples can you think of where some one figured out or was told a straightforward prophecy ahead of time and actually managed to avert the bad stuff and/or guaranteed the good vs. how many times they screwed it up.

[Samalpetey]

Seriously, how many literary examples can you think of where some one figured out or was told a straightforward prophecy ahead of time and actually managed to avert the bad stuff and/or guaranteed the good vs. how many times they screwed it up.

Well, the whole point of a prophecy is that it says what will happen, not what can happen (At least in the OOTS verse)

[theNater]

Note to self: Do not play life-or-death strategy games vs The Giant

Personally, I make it a general rule to avoid life-or-death games entirely.

[The Troubadour]

But... But if Malack could dispel Durkon's Mass Death Ward anytime he wanted, why did he even try to use Greater Dispel Magic and risk failure - which did happen?

Also, as far as we saw, Malack only lent some books to Durkon, he didn't take part in actually researching the spell!

Aw, now I'm a bit bummed. This was such a great fight! I hope it doesn't end on this cheap note.

[RNGgod]

But... But if Malack could dispel Durkon's Mass Death Ward anytime he wanted, why did he even try to use Greater Dispel Magic and risk failure - which did happen?

You don't play your trump card first. You play it last, when it will ensure victory. Or better yet, you win without even using it.

That's why.

[Rakoa]

But... But if Malack could dispel Durkon's Mass Death Ward anytime he wanted, why did he even try to use Greater Dispel Magic and risk failure - which did happen?

My guess would be to trick Durkon. Malack knows he can get rid of the spell at anytime, and he is confident in his ability to handle Durkon as it is. So he cast's the spell which will be of no use to him in the fight (since he can already dispel the only spell on Durkon whenever he wants to) and in doing so, solidifies in Durkon's mind that Malack cannot, in fact, get rid of the Death Ward. This makes Durkon base his strategy for the fight around his Death Ward, because he is now confident in can hold up to all of Malack's dispel attempts.

And then it doesn't.

[Xenrei]

Wow. Vampire Durkon? I wonder how the rest of the party will deal with having a walking vampiric under-the-enemy's-control box of Band-Aids?
Unless V or someone else bursts in to save him. One thing's for certain, I love the way and speed the arc is progressing. Nice one, Giant!

[TheWolfe]

Maybe Malack's race is a magical construct, like the owlbear.

[Poppatomus]

Also, even beyond lulling him into a false sense of security, dispel makes sense since he doesn't know what else Durkon might have already cast. If I remember correctly, dispel magic doesn't have to target a particular magical effect, but can be used to try and take out other effects that might be in place. At that point, he might have thought it better to use it since it had a chance of getting rid of the death ward or something else.