Getting kicked out of the party

[DarkEricDraven]

No. Not your game group, I mean, in character. My halfling and her love interest were kicked out of the party for arguing with the NPC party leader, a paladin who was taking us to a city. He, among other things, rushed ahead and nearly got us murdered by a Druid/Cleric centaur, and kept talking about how women shouldn't be fighting. Not to mention he was just so smarmy and acted so superior to our normal party paladin, who was actually a nice guy but a rank below him.

So, me and the other player, a rogue who was also at odds with him, were in a long argument with him after the centaur incident. He finally dismissed us, so we have to take the caravan to the town and arrive two weeks late.

Has anything like this happened to any you? I'm still fairly new to the game, and I have no idea if that will set us back badly. Or maybe it is a common thing. Whatever the case, it was pretty funny.

[Reluctance]

Option one: The paladin is a DMPC for a real slime of a human being, and a warning that you should avoid the person. If horrible things happen to you for not following the shining protagonist, that's your excuse to leave the table.

Option two, and thankfully the more likely one: The DM is setting this guy up to be a jerkwad so you well and truly hate him by the time the Heel Face Turn comes about. It's a semi-common way to make you really want the bad guy to go down, as opposed to simply seeing him as an opponent to be stopped.

[Siegel]

Seems like a good result of an conflict a bit hard maybe but well, did any dice get rolled?
What did the other PCs do?

The question you need to ask you right now is what do you want to do? Come into the party with a new char? Follow the group sneakingly and save them in an awesome moment to earn your place in the group back?

[DarkEricDraven]

Option one: The paladin is a DMPC for a real slime of a human being, and a warning that you should avoid the person. If horrible things happen to you for not following the shining protagonist, that's your excuse to leave the table.

Option two, and thankfully the more likely one: The DM is setting this guy up to be a jerkwad so you well and truly hate him by the time the Heel Face Turn comes about. It's a semi-common way to make you really want the bad guy to go down, as opposed to simply seeing him as an opponent to be stopped.

I doubt both of them, actually. I think the DM is just using him as an excuse to get us to the town and really only knows how to write paladins like Miko. He isn't being used as a "hero", and the DM only had him charge the centaur after we were taking a while talking her out of slitting our sorcerers throat. Despite this, he insists *we* were wrong for arguing with the guy(whom my halfling nicknamed "Sir Prick").

Seems like a good result of an conflict a bit hard maybe but well, did any dice get rolled?
What did the other PCs do?

The question you need to ask you right now is what do you want to do? Come into the party with a new char? Follow the group sneakingly and save them in an awesome moment to earn your place in the group back?

Well, the cleric wasn't there, so the DM was controlling his character in combat. He and the good paladin were under orders to follow him, so they had to. The ranger, on the other hand...just never said anything. See, it was over Skype in combination with Maptool. It said "(Ranger) is typing", but she never spoke up in the last minutes of the argument. I suspect she was AFK. The sorcerer was definitely AFK, having left a bit before that. So it was just me and the rogue, sadly. But good, in a way. Me and her player have been setting up a relationship between the two, and two weeks alone away from the main party will probably result in good character development to make up for missed XP.

[Jornophelanthas]

I doubt both of them, actually. I think the DM is just using him as an excuse to get us to the town and really only knows how to write paladins like Miko. He isn't being used as a "hero", and the DM only had him charge the centaur after we were taking a while talking her out of slitting our sorcerers throat. Despite this, he insists *we* were wrong for arguing with the guy(whom my halfling nicknamed "Sir Prick").

Sounds like "option 1" to me.

Odds are that whatever is going to happen in that town Sir Prick is taking you to, it will probably involve Sir Prick being placed in command of the party to do some quest, i.e. the NPC gets the quest, and the players are graciously allowed to help.

If this is the case, my advice is to tell the king/lord/mayor that you kindly refuse, as Sir Prick clearly does not appreciate your help. If the DM then gives you an ultimatum along the lines of "Do you want to have an adventure or not?", then I would advise that your answer be along the lines of "If it involves being bossed around by Sir Prick, then no, because I'm not having fun doing that."

Also, be aware of another warning sign. Suppose that the DM is actually giving the two of you less game time, experience or loot as "punishment" for being rude to Sir Prick. If this is the case, then the game is more about Sir Prick than about the players. This is a cue to bow out, as the players' fun is not important to the DM in that case.

[DarkEricDraven]

Sounds like "option 1" to me.

Odds are that whatever is going to happen in that town Sir Prick is taking you to, it will probably involve Sir Prick being placed in command of the party to do some quest, i.e. the NPC gets the quest, and the players are graciously allowed to help.

If this is the case, my advice is to tell the king/lord/mayor that you kindly refuse, as Sir Prick clearly does not appreciate your help. If the DM then gives you an ultimatum along the lines of "Do you want to have an adventure or not?", then I would advise that your answer be along the lines of "If it involves being bossed around by Sir Prick, then no, because I'm not having fun doing that."

Well, I probably won't have a say anyway since my character won't be there. At any rate, Sir Prick won't just go away, I'm sure. He took the paladin aside and said something something about him(Sir Prick) being forced into a marriage to a person from some other order as a political thing, but I tried not to read that bit as I was elsewhere, setting up the tent. I'm not sure if that's supposed to be a part of the main plot or not. *shrugs* Hopefully he will have gotten eaten by an ogre between now and when I and the rogue return.

[Dimers]

Has anything like this happened to any you?

Nnnnooooo ... no, I'd have to say that I often get forced into parties, but I don't recall ever being forced out of one.

DM might've been reading Dragonlance recently. Several of the Solamnic Knights are like your description of Sir Prick.

[tahu88810]

As a DM, I have done something like this. However, it wasn't caused by an NPC party leader but instead by a sandstorm which split the party of four into teams of two.

It was...interesting. I had to send two of the players into a separate room, and basically ended up running back and forth for most of the day until they finally met back up.

How it will effect you really depends on how the GM runs it. Since it's over maptools, there's a really good chance he could give you guys a side-quest while you wait to rejoin the party which would mean there's no real mechanical hit from it.
However, Sir Prick does strike me as a DMPC of the worst kind (there are good types). Here's hoping he's being set-up to turn into an antagonist of some kind, eh?

[Sidmen]

I can't say I've ever been forced out of the party by an NPC before... I have been in conversations with the other PCs which ended with "why are you traveling with us? We don't care about you, and you don't care about us" after which I, or another player's character left the group - we then came back with a more cooperative character.

That said, you should send an email to the GM and make sure this isn't going to be a constant thing - dealing with an asshat all the time for no reason is not fun. Ask him if the Pally is going to be around all the time, and if he is going to stay an annoying character.

[Soylent Dave]

That said, you should send an email to the GM and make sure this isn't going to be a constant thing - dealing with an asshat all the time for no reason is not fun. Ask him if the Pally is going to be around all the time, and if he is going to stay an annoying character.

This is the best thing to do.

As has been suggested, your GM may have some good ideas involved your party conflicting with an NPC (Sir Prick) who was previously an ally - which could lead to interesting roleplay - it's also always interesting to have an antagonist who isn't evil, which a paladin wouldn't be (but he could still very easily be an enemy).

BUT if the GM is using the paladin as 'his' character, and if that character is equally (or even <i>more</i>) important to the story than the PCs - which includes the other PCs, of course, not just you - then you're probably going to end up resenting the character and ultimately the GM for forcing you to deal with him.

If you feel like you're being forced to associate with this NPC, that he's dictating what the party does, and it's the sort of thing your character wouldn't do - then you need to talk to your GM about it.

If there's a problem with PC motivations and characters not meshing, then it's often worth finding a compromise. If there's a problem with NPC characters not working well with a PC, then it's usually best to just get rid of the NPC.

NPCs are basically extras...

[Toofey]

Did the play follow you guys, or were you cut out of the game as a result? If you were cut out, this is probably not a great DM, as others have said. If this was incorporated into the play, it could be fine.

Another important question: were you still having fun? Also have you asked the DM about it?

[Belril Duskwalk]

I have seen something like this happen, but for very different reasons. In my situation our party's other rogue, who had previously chafed under the restrictions of working for a Mercenary captain finally snapped. He decided to quit working for the company and he managed to resign in one of the more offensive ways he could imagine short of actual violence. The captain told the rest of the party (who were still employed with him) that he was going to hire someone to assassinate him (the captain had revealed some vital secrets about his past that he couldn't afford being spread). He also said that if he found out we were sheltering him thereafter he would have the rest of us killed too.

So, we left to continue our mission, occasionally having to remind our second rogue that he was endangering our lives by hanging around, asking him to camp further away, etc. He ended up accompanying us through every major task we had afterwards except for any further negotiations with our company contacts.

Is it common? I have no idea. Will this be a setback? That depends a lot on your DM. Speed of Plot is a funny thing. If he decides that neither the rest of the party, nor you, encounter anything of interest on your independent trips to the town then the delay will mean nothing. If Sir Prick and the PCs with him have several gainful encounters on the way to town and while waiting for you at town and you guys encounter nothing on the same trip, then yeah, this has a potential to be a big setback.

Only way to tell which is likely before it happens is to talk to the DM. Ask him if the next session will focus majorly on Sir Prick and company or if your PCs are going to get their share of play time till you catch up. I don't know your situation, the DM may be able to run a session for the people with the Paladin, then a separate session for those not with him to catch you guys up without having to force each half of the party to sit idle waiting for others play.

[DarkEricDraven]

Did the play follow you guys, or were you cut out of the game as a result? If you were cut out, this is probably not a great DM, as others have said. If this was incorporated into the play, it could be fine.

Another important question: were you still having fun? Also have you asked the DM about it?

Well, it'd be a lot more fun to bash the paladin over the head I don't know if he is planning on sub games to follow our characters while the others were with Sir Prick. He said "See you in two weeks", so I assume not. *shrugs*

This is the best thing to do.

As has been suggested, your GM may have some good ideas involved your party conflicting with an NPC (Sir Prick) who was previously an ally - which could lead to interesting roleplay -

The thing about that is...everyone hates him. I mean, he EARNED the name "Sir Prick". He goes out of his way to be a jerk. No one, and I mean NO ONE, will be sad to see him try to kill us. Because then we can kill him. And the Forgotten Realms will be a better place.

[Delwugor]

NPC (or GMPC) leading Party is a warning sign of a bad GM.
NPC kicking characters out of the party is confirmation of bad GM.

Send him an email explaining that you joined to play your character in the party and having an NPC kick him is not appreciated. Mention that you expect the game to be about the player and their characters not this NPC who dictates to everyone. Finally let him know that allowing characters more freedom ends up with better games which everyone enjoys, while tight control leads to boredom.

If you get a favorable response and he adjusts then most likely he made a bad mistake, will correct it and everything will get back on the proper track.
If not then leave immediately, it is not worth the frustration. There are better games and GMs out there.

[Techsmart]

To me? no
To a party member I dm'ed for? yes.
In our case, we had a chaotic neutral bard who decided to tell the town's leader (who happened to be a bbeg) that two members of the party were going to try to blackmail him. The leader then struck a deal with the bard, making her an evil minion in exchange for not torturing her when the rest of the party was captured (and to avoid jail-time for other transgressions). Party found out about the same time that 15 guards were standing around them with spears all pointed at their throats. Obviously... the bard was no longer a welcome addition to the party. It was rather sad, actually, since that campaign was going so well, and then it had to end because of school schedules.

As others have said, the fact that you are essentially being punished for not sucking it up and following the dm's lead by the nose is a bad sign. If this is a consistent issue, I would recommend bringing it up to the dm. It is a game, after all. If it were a job where he was paying you, then dismissal would be okay, but everybody should have fun, not just the dm. The DM needs the players to be around to have fun just as the players need the dm.

[Bagelson]

Wait, so the result of your disagreement is that you two don't get to play the next session? That, I would say, is a blinking red light and the harsh burnt smell of rails.

It's one thing if getting kicked from the party leads to new plot developments and story hooks, but if it is an actual punishment (not getting to play, falling behind on the exp curve, missing plot involvement) your GM is failing on the one paramount goal of all roleplaying: "Everyone has fun".

I seem to be of the same opinion as the previous posters; the GM has his mind set on a particular plot and the paladin is his GMPC. In 97% of all cases, a GMPC is a detriment to the game - it's the GM using his world defining authority to make his own brain baby look good at the cost of everyone else's spotlight.

If that is not the case and the abrasive paladin will eventually lead into a plot, you may want to explain to him that if he wants the PC's to be the kind of characters who would hide their fist in their pocket and go along with the words of a certified twit, he needs to clarify this during character creation.

[mcv]

Is that DM a fool? He voluntarily splits a beginning party where half of the party does not really have a reason to follow the other half? That's likely going to be the end of either his campaign or his sanity.

How is the coherence within the party? Do the outcast characters and the paladin-followers like each others? The followers didn't speak up when they were kicked out, so what do they really expect? Is there really a good reason for your character to follow them and rejoin them later? Because if there isn't, then what exactly does the DM think is going to happen?

I'd be inclined to just try to find my own adventure. That's never going to work, of course, but it might be worth it to check with the DM whether there is actually still anything salvageable about the campaign. And if the players of the outcasts drop out, won't he be stuck with the least active players? That'd be almost as if he really prefers playing on his own.

But I might be reading way too much into this. Talk to the DM. What is his plan exactly? Voice your concerns. Maybe he has a very good plan. Maybe he's an idiot. Try to find out which.

[DarkEricDraven]

So, I spoke to the GM, first about why the two kicked members would wish to rejoin the party at all, considering nothing world shattering had happened yet, and second about Sir Prick. I'm going to talk to the rogue, and if he decides his girl wouldn't join, neither would mine.

About the paladin, he said that he'll lead the party for as long as he sees fit. Which somewhat worries me, but if my halfling doesn't rejoin, my backup character has a personality that shouldn't clash so much.

[mcv]

Are you sure you really want to play at all under a controlling DMPC? You don't have to continue playing with this DM, you know.

[INDYSTAR188]

So, I spoke to the GM, first about why the two kicked members would wish to rejoin the party at all, considering nothing world shattering had happened yet, and second about Sir Prick. I'm going to talk to the rogue, and if he decides his girl wouldn't join, neither would mine.

About the paladin, he said that he'll lead the party for as long as he sees fit. Which somewhat worries me, but if my halfling doesn't rejoin, my backup character has a personality that shouldn't clash so much.

It stinks that you should have to worry about clashing at all, really. That said, I can see that you want to play in the group. I'm sure they're all your friends and you want to play DnD with friends opposed to at a game shop or something. If you talked to him about it and he said the Paladin was going to keep on anyway, then I can see two possible outcomes:

1. The DMPC serves some story device, like he'll sacrifice himself for your group (or some other noble cause) and hope that spurns your group to continue on.

2. He just want's to play too and the DMPC is around permanently. I hope that's not the case, because everyone at the table should have fun and not have to lean on their 'back up' character.

I was wondering if you guys considered following the Paladins group from a distance and helping them in way's they might not notice and saving their bacon one time to get back into the mix, prove your worth, and hopefully take the high and mighty out of Sir Prick.

[DarkEricDraven]

Are you sure you really want to play at all under a controlling DMPC? You don't have to continue playing with this DM, you know.

Well...even if, by some miracle, I was able to find another game, I am really, really, really bad with the all the numbers that goes into Dungeons and Dragons. I really doubt I'll be able to find another DM as patient as he has been when it comes to helping us build our characters.

I was wondering if you guys considered following the Paladins group from a distance and helping them in way's they might not notice and saving their bacon one time to get back into the mix, prove your worth, and hopefully take the high and mighty out of Sir Prick.

Yeah, I asked, DM said no.

[Randomatic]

Well...even if, by some miracle, I was able to find another game, I am really, really, really bad with the all the numbers that goes into Dungeons and Dragons. I really doubt I'll be able to find another DM as patient as he has been when it comes to helping us build our characters.

You've found the GITP forums. I'm sure if you need help with the numbers for character creation a polite post here asking for assistance will get you more help than you'll ever need. The forums as a whole should also have more patience than any one person.

It also sounds like this is a warning from your DM. If I'm reading your posts correctly, you've been told to stop attending the games for 2 weeks as a player, before your character rejoins the party, which seems a bit harsh.

I have a feeling that if you don't fall in line with this DM and his NPC that he'll end up following up this warning with kicking you out of the group completely.

In any case, hopefully this is all a bit of a misunderstanding, and you'll have many fun games.

[RandomNPC]

At a table I'd call BS, hand the DM my character, and start DMing a story that branches from where the current story was. Online that's a bit harder, but if you can't find a way to drive of the jerk you need to ask yourself what it's worth, and how good friends you want to remain. Here's a few options.

1: backup character
2: current character, offer a hollow apology, and be subtly disruptive.
3: current character, tell dm of disruptive plans and hollow apology.
4: current character, stand up to DMPC of Doom and hope the party rallies behind you. (Your previous posts indicate a few AFK people who may have acted differently.)

The difference between 2 and 3 is if you go 3 and the guy calls you on it, you get to call out the DM for being a horrible mettagamer.

[Tyndmyr]

No. Not your game group, I mean, in character. My halfling and her love interest were kicked out of the party for arguing with the NPC party leader, a paladin who was taking us to a city. He, among other things, rushed ahead and nearly got us murdered by a Druid/Cleric centaur, and kept talking about how women shouldn't be fighting. Not to mention he was just so smarmy and acted so superior to our normal party paladin, who was actually a nice guy but a rank below him.

So, me and the other player, a rogue who was also at odds with him, were in a long argument with him after the centaur incident. He finally dismissed us, so we have to take the caravan to the town and arrive two weeks late.

Has anything like this happened to any you? I'm still fairly new to the game, and I have no idea if that will set us back badly. Or maybe it is a common thing. Whatever the case, it was pretty funny.

This is a really, really bad char. This might mean that you've got a really terrible DM, or it might be intentionally just a terrible char. I'd reserve judgement until I knew more.

Either way, stabbing the hell out of the char is entirely reasonable.

[DarkEricDraven]

Either way, stabbing the hell out of the char is entirely reasonable.

Hm. Maybe I could roll up a Chaotic Neutral/Evil character. "No, no, taking his head off and spitting on his entrails was totally in character! The rest of his order turns on me now? Oh, look, my halfling just got back..."

[Jornophelanthas]

About the paladin, he said that he'll lead the party for as long as he sees fit. Which somewhat worries me, but if my halfling doesn't rejoin, my backup character has a personality that shouldn't clash so much.

Yeah, I asked, DM said no.

You know what this means, right? This is the DM saying:

"This is MY game, and you have to do what I say. My heroic paladin is your boss, or you don't play at all. Don't you all love how arrogant he is? Don't you think I'm a great roleplayer for playing such a great paladin?"

Here's how it will go from here, if you decide to stay:
- Sir Prick will get all the quests, the players are there to help him. Meaning you don't get to be the heroes, but the servants.
- Sir Prick can't die. Ever. All the monsters will totally ignore him and only attack players. If a player actually dares to attack Sir Prick, the DM will fly into a rage, and likely expel the player immediately.
- Sir Prick is the boss. Disagreeing with Sir Prick means that, by definition, you are wrong, and the DM will make sure to prove it to you by punishing your character in some way.
- Sir Prick decides how the loot is divided. Also, if the loot ever includes magical items, there will always be one item that is tailor-made for Sir Prick. Also, it will never work for any of the players (if they even manage to get their hands on it), because only Sir Prick is worthy enough for the magic to work.
- If there actually is an enemy or monster that Sir Prick will fight, the players will either be left out of the fight, or the enemy will be so strong that only Sir Prick's magical sword will be able to hurt it. Typically, this is the great confrontation at the end of a quest. At best, the players will get to fight the evil boss' bodyguards.

My guess is also that Sir Prick currently is several levels above the players, and/or has superior equipment. If not, he will acquire it along the way.

My advice:
- Tell the DM that you don't have fun with Sir Prick around, and since Sir Prick is there to stay, you are not. No hard feelings, but just no fun for you.
- Chance are there are more players who feel the same way. Ask if any one of them (with more D&D experience than you have) is willing to DM for a new campaign. Perhaps your current DM is even willing to be a player.

[Tyndmyr]

Hm. Maybe I could roll up a Chaotic Neutral/Evil character. "No, no, taking his head off and spitting on his entrails was totally in character! The rest of his order turns on me now? Oh, look, my halfling just got back..."

No need. If he's doing terrible things, you don't have to be evil to end up killing him. Or, talk to the rest of the party, and inform him that due to his actions, he's been voted out of the party. If he reacts by violence/forcing you to follow him, he's shown you that he is evil at heart, and killing him in any way necessary(and avoiding mention of this to the order) is entirely understandable.

[Jornophelanthas]

After writing my previous post, I considered I may be a bit harsh towards this DM.

It could very well be that Sir Prick is intended as a chaperone (or a drill sergeant) for the party, who will do the following:
- Bail out the party if they threaten to die in combat.
- Make sure the players follow the (railroad tracks of the) story.
- Make all the decisions that the DM wants the players to take.

If this is the case, the DM has planted the NPC in the middle of the players as an insurance that everything goes as he has planned, at least until he can trust the players to do so on their own. Perhaps he even intends to have the players "graduate" from Sir Prick's guidance at some point during the campaign. As soon as they're ready, of course.

Perhaps the condescending attitude is even meant to motivate the players to put effort into not needing him any more, so he can go his own separate way.

However, he is making a fatal mistake. Because roleplaying does NOT mean that the DM gets to tell the players what to do and say; if that's what he wants, he should get into drama, not roleplaying. Which, unfortunately, means that the DM will never trust the players enough to retire Sir Prick.

[DarkEricDraven]

You know what this means, right? This is the DM saying:

"This is MY game, and you have to do what I say. My heroic paladin is your boss, or you don't play at all. Don't you all love how arrogant he is? Don't you think I'm a great roleplayer for playing such a great paladin?"

Well, after I asked how long he would be around, he did say "Drop it. He's going to be leading the party for however long I see fit. Whether you like it or not, I'm in charge of this game. Sorry."

No need. If he's doing terrible things, you don't have to be evil to end up killing him. Or, talk to the rest of the party, and inform him that due to his actions, he's been voted out of the party. If he reacts by violence/forcing you to follow him, he's shown you that he is evil at heart, and killing him in any way necessary(and avoiding mention of this to the order) is entirely understandable.

He hasn't done anything TERRIBLE yet, just stuff like "I am better then you, you, you, you, especially YOU, you, you..."

And he is a ridiculous sexist, too, so there is that. And I don't think it is Neutral Good to behead people for saying women suck at holding swords.

...Heh, holding swords.

[Bearpunch]

Dude, seriously, get a new DM, join a PBP on the forums, they'll help you learn the ropes, everyone sreally nice here. Your DM is treating the game as his, instead of al of yours, and that just spells no fun.