Results 211 to 240 of 959
-
2018-02-26, 02:57 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2013
- Gender
Re: An Enemy Spy Reads The Wheel of Time III: Something's Fishy in the White Tower
Last edited by Sivarias; 2018-02-27 at 11:13 PM.
You can call me Sivarias or Siv.
Message me some time, I'd love to hear your story, and if you want, I can even tell you mine.
Originally Posted by The Glyphstone
-
2018-02-26, 03:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2008
- Location
- Right behind you
- Gender
Re: An Enemy Spy Reads The Wheel of Time III: Something's Fishy in the White Tower
Last edited by An Enemy Spy; 2018-02-26 at 03:13 PM.
-
2018-02-26, 03:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2013
- Gender
-
2018-02-26, 03:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2006
Re: An Enemy Spy Reads The Wheel of Time III: Something's Fishy in the White Tower
Actually, I like Eddings Belgariad/Malloreaon as a classic "Heroes Journey" and his Elenium/Tamuli Books as an also classical "Lower Level Fantasy with some Depth" (Not counting later Tamuli regardin Low Fantasy^^).
Are they Masterpieces? Nope. But they are well written, fit" their themes, and have good humour.
I just grew to dislike them later on because it seemed like there were to many cases of the heroes not being much better than the Villains, but newer getting called out for it.thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar
-
2018-02-26, 05:06 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2010
- Gender
Re: An Enemy Spy Reads The Wheel of Time III: Something's Fishy in the White Tower
SpoilerAs lord_khaine said, there was so much left that some things had to be cut short. Were Robert Jordan still alive, it's entirely possible the series would still not be finished. I swear he added three new plot lines and one new POV character for every story arc he actually wrapped up.
-
2018-02-26, 06:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
Re: An Enemy Spy Reads The Wheel of Time III: Something's Fishy in the White Tower
If you look at the last few books Jordan actually wrote, he wrapped up quite a few plot lines, and was clearly about to wrap up others. He probably would have ended up stretching things into two or three more books than Sanderson did, but the ending would actually be worth reading if he wrote it, so that's a fair trade off.
-
2018-02-27, 11:14 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2013
- Gender
Re: An Enemy Spy Reads The Wheel of Time III: Something's Fishy in the White Tower
You can call me Sivarias or Siv.
Message me some time, I'd love to hear your story, and if you want, I can even tell you mine.
Originally Posted by The Glyphstone
-
2018-02-28, 08:58 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2010
- Gender
-
2018-02-28, 09:06 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2013
- Gender
Re: An Enemy Spy Reads The Wheel of Time III: Something's Fishy in the White Tower
You can call me Sivarias or Siv.
Message me some time, I'd love to hear your story, and if you want, I can even tell you mine.
Originally Posted by The Glyphstone
-
2018-02-28, 11:28 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2010
- Gender
-
2018-02-28, 12:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2013
- Gender
Re: An Enemy Spy Reads The Wheel of Time III: Something's Fishy in the White Tower
You can call me Sivarias or Siv.
Message me some time, I'd love to hear your story, and if you want, I can even tell you mine.
Originally Posted by The Glyphstone
-
2018-02-28, 08:36 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2011
Re: An Enemy Spy Reads The Wheel of Time III: Something's Fishy in the White Tower
Spoiler: On character regressionPerrin. Too many times from both authors.
Characters are almost always rewarded for working with each other, just generally trusting each other or at least putting sexism and so on aside, so it's frustrating that the reset button is hit so often especially when most of the main characters know it's the end of the world and all.
-
2018-02-28, 10:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
Re: An Enemy Spy Reads The Wheel of Time III: Something's Fishy in the White Tower
SpoilerI'm not sure that it's backsliding, though. You are correct that the story shows that things go better when the characters trust each other and work together, but OTOH, I'm not sure that any of them are self-aware enough to realize that when they have succeeded because they did work together. Instead of "hey, things went how we wanted them to go because we trusted each other to come up with a plan and work together to make it work" their attitudes are more, "hey, things went how we wanted because I came up with a good plan and pulled the others, kicking and screaming, into following it".
-
2018-03-01, 12:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
Re: An Enemy Spy Reads The Wheel of Time III: Something's Fishy in the White Tower
SpoilerNot attitudes that are entirely unrealistic. Jordan isn't trying to write a manga about the power of friendship, he's trying to write believable characters with flaws.
-
2018-03-01, 02:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
- Location
- Central Iowa
- Gender
Re: An Enemy Spy Reads The Wheel of Time III: Something's Fishy in the White Tower
SpoilerI forget. Did Min ever actually tell anybody about the "sparks fighting the darkness" vision from early on in the series? Like, that's an in-universe case of somebody with special knowledge basically saying "Work together, dummies!"Take your best shot, everyone else does.
Avatar by Guildorn Tanaleth. See other avatars below.
SpoilerMy original avatar and much better ones by groundhog22 and a Winter Olympics one by Rae Artemi.
-
2018-03-01, 02:47 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
- Location
- London, England.
Re: An Enemy Spy Reads The Wheel of Time III: Something's Fishy in the White Tower
I'm the author of the Alex Verus series of urban fantasy novels. Fated is the first, and the final book in the series, Risen, is out as of December 2021. For updates, check my blog!
-
2018-03-01, 02:48 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2015
-
2018-03-01, 05:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
-
2018-03-02, 07:48 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2010
- Gender
Re: An Enemy Spy Reads The Wheel of Time III: Something's Fishy in the White Tower
Oops, that was not the clearest I could have been. I'm not sure whether it's necessary, but I'm going back into a spoiler tag just in case, so I don't ruin anything for AES.
Spoiler
What I was referring to "getting out of hand" was not character backsliding, but rather the ever-increasing number of books, the constant adding of more characters, more points of view, and more plot threads. I am not exaggerating when I say that if Robert Jordan had survived, I believe the series would have been at least 20 books long and possibly not have reached its conclusion yet. I feel like he was chronically unable to resolve one plot without adding at least two more.
I'm not really able to point to specifics because I've only read through the series once, years ago, and don't own most of the books. But off the top of my head, there were chapters from the perspectives of:
Rand
Mat
Perrin
Egwene
Nynaeve
Elayne
Moiraine
Morgase
Siuan
Elaida
Thom
Gawyn
Galad
Aviendha
Cadsuane
Verin
Birgitte
Faile
Lan (I'm fairly sure, anyway)
several of the Forsaken
several of the Black Ajah
several other Aes Sedai
at least one of Mat's lieutenants
probably one or two Aiel Wise Ones
I mean, come on. Who needs that many POV characters? The only other author I can think of that has that many is George R.R. Martin, but that's because he's always replacing characters that he killed off. Hardly any of the ones I named above died off, so the story got so spread out that by the 9th or 10th book, it felt like you were getting just a chapter or two from each perspective. On at least one occasion I finished a book and thought "for a book so big, how much actually happened in this book."
I enjoyed reading every bit of it (well, other than some of Perrin's constant reluctance to accept his position and Faile... being Faile), but it really felt meandering and like Jordan had lost control of the reins a couple times.
-
2018-03-05, 10:20 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
- Location
- Gridania, Eorzea
- Gender
Re: An Enemy Spy Reads The Wheel of Time III: Something's Fishy in the White Tower
Spoiler: You forgot:Lews Therin
Jaichim Carridin
Geofram BornHald
Padan Fain
Bayle Domon
Min
Pedron Niall
Suroth Sabelle
Egeanin Tamarath
Garet Bryne
Sevanna
Romanda Cassin
Furyk Karede
Tuon
Itrualde
Idrool (Andull, I mean Androl)
Pevara Tazanovni
Brigitte
I left out anyone who had fewer than 10k words as a POV and anyone who fell into one of your categories for the sake of brevity.
-
2018-03-05, 03:28 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2013
Re: An Enemy Spy Reads The Wheel of Time III: Something's Fishy in the White Tower
Spoiler: GOTAs of ADWD, GRRM has killed 4 POV characters, excluding intros and epilogues. Of those, Arys and Quentyn are very minor characters, Leaving Ned, and Catylen (who comes back), making a grand total of 1 1/2 major characters. I would bet that Robert Jordan has killed more of his POVs.
-
2018-03-05, 07:13 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2013
-
2018-03-05, 07:41 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2008
- Location
- Right behind you
- Gender
-
2018-03-06, 06:12 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2015
- Location
- UK
Re: An Enemy Spy Reads The Wheel of Time III: Something's Fishy in the White Tower
Personally, I think ASoIaF and WoT both have too many POV characters, regardless of how many are or aren't killed off. It causes problems in both series.
Lydia Seaspray by Oneris!
A Faerie Affair
Homebrew: Sig
-
2018-03-06, 07:05 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2013
Re: An Enemy Spy Reads The Wheel of Time III: Something's Fishy in the White Tower
Why exactly does it matter? WoT may have many POVs but not at the same time and most outside of the main cast, say the Emond's fielders, we don't see that much of them really. Consider that we are into book2 or 3 before Mat really gets anything from behind his eyes. It's really an interesting style which gives WoT depth to see stuff from other's perspectives. Somehow I guess that Sword of Truth series don't do that? I don't really see the problem, it's not like it's 13 books each with 13+ POVs in each.
-
2018-03-06, 09:06 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2015
- Location
- UK
Re: An Enemy Spy Reads The Wheel of Time III: Something's Fishy in the White Tower
Well it's a question of personal taste (so it doesn't matter, but I thought we were having a conversation...). For me, I don't like the proliferation of POVs in the second half of the WoT. It's gratuitous and jarring, and most of them add very little to the overall story. To be fair, I'd have been less turned off if he didn't keep jumping between POVs mid-chapter, sometimes just for a few lines at a time. That's just unpleasant to read.
And, if you put me on the spot, I'd say it's actually ASoIaF that suffers more from having too many POVs, out of the two series, even though it doesn't have as many overall and sticks to one per chapter.
Spoiler: Extended ASoIaF thoughtsThe influx of ironborn and dornish POVs in AFFC really bogged the story down, for me. They were dull, and the stories GRRM was trying to tell with them didn't need to be part of the series. They'd have been better as short stories, sold separately. It didn't help that Dany got stuck in Meereen at about the same time so nothing seemed to be going anywhere. It's notable that the TV show started to really fall apart at this point, as well.
And did we really need Cersei's POV at all?
I tend to think it'd have been better to keep her inner thoughts (and some of the political events in KL) a mystery. I feel like the books would have been greatly improved by cutting all of her chapters.
Also the prologues and epilogues didn't land with me, except for the first and maybe third books. Not only because of the throwaway POVs, granted, but that was a part of it. If I was editor, I'd have cut them too.Last edited by Ninja_Prawn; 2018-03-06 at 09:07 AM.
Lydia Seaspray by Oneris!
A Faerie Affair
Homebrew: Sig
-
2018-03-06, 10:00 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
Re: An Enemy Spy Reads The Wheel of Time III: Something's Fishy in the White Tower
It seems a little unfair to compare the number of PoV characters between Jordan and Martin anyway when Martin only puts out like 10% of the content Jordan did. If you wanted a fair comparison you could really only look at Jordans first few books, and the numbers would be a lot closer.
Personally I liked the way Jordan's setting evolved from a simple heroes journey to an entire world fighting to save itself. I can see why it isn't for everyone, but I like it.
-
2018-03-06, 10:57 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2006
Re: An Enemy Spy Reads The Wheel of Time III: Something's Fishy in the White Tower
Personally I liked the way Jordan's setting evolved from a simple heroes journey to an entire world fighting to save itself. I can see why it isn't for everyone, but I like it.thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar
-
2018-03-06, 11:20 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2015
- Location
- UK
Re: An Enemy Spy Reads The Wheel of Time III: Something's Fishy in the White Tower
Lydia Seaspray by Oneris!
A Faerie Affair
Homebrew: Sig
-
2018-03-07, 01:19 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2013
Re: An Enemy Spy Reads The Wheel of Time III: Something's Fishy in the White Tower
Spoiler: ASOIAFJon Snow is going to be resurrected as well and probably in much better condition than Cat was.
I was replying to the status of the character at end of Dance.
In general I think that Martin is doing more fake out of POV deaths than actually killing them.
Even if we don't take Jon and Cat into account:
Arya - at the end of her chapter in the red wedding she was hit with an axe to the head
Brienne - was hanged at the end of her chapter
Davos - reported dead for an entire book
Bran - in his second POV chapter, fell off the tower (I'm pretty sure you are suppose to think he is dead on first read, at least until you get to the next chapter)
Theon - I think most people doesn't know he is alive for a couple of books until he pop up as Reek
Quentyn - there are some tin foil theories he is alive and just burned his hand, and his men just switched him with a burned body.