Results 1 to 30 of 106
Thread: Belkar thinks he's Chaotic Good?
-
2013-05-25, 09:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2012
- Gender
Belkar thinks he's Chaotic Good?
In the latest comic we see Belkar/Scruffy's happy ending. Apparently they did die (although it's unknown how) and is with Shojo and Scruffy. However, Belkar is evil, and knows he's evil. So why is he there?
It's possible that in his mind he's done enough "good" acts that he would be permitted into the CG afterlife, even if he is rotten inside. Belkar is dumb, so he might believe that he's eligible.
Or Belkar never died in his dream, and Shojo has been resurrected somehow. But his wake up line implies he thinks he's dead.Last edited by Zmeoaice; 2013-05-25 at 09:11 PM.
-
2013-05-25, 09:09 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
- Location
- empty space
-
2013-05-25, 09:26 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
- Location
- Eastern Iowa
- Gender
Re: Belkar thinks he's Chaotic Good?
he was under an illusion that explicitly smoothed over things like alignments and the laws of the multiverse. having him hanging out with Shojo either living or dead is well within its bounds, regardless of what he thinks of his alignment.
Also it's possible that in his dream Shojo's big brain created a swanky bachelor pad in Limbo for them.
-
2013-05-25, 09:26 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2012
Re: Belkar thinks he's Chaotic Good?
Is it possible Belkar is just visiting temporarily? It seems like it should be possible if an evil adventuring party was able to invade Roy's afterlife.
-
2013-05-25, 09:27 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
- Location
- USA
- Gender
Re: Belkar thinks he's Chaotic Good?
The Illusion has nothing to do with alignment and everything to do with goals.
For example, Haley has been seeking out her Father, Elan has been concerned with his family, Roy has been concerned about beating Xykon and proving himself to his father. With a mix of other things.
But Belkar? What motivation have we ever seen beyond looking out for Scruffy? He has no enemy that has shown up, he has no driving goal, he is just there to kill. It doesn't matter who he kills, not does he have anyone specific that he wants to kill.
Hence why his vision has to do with Mr. Scruffy. Because this is the only thing that really drives him.
Shojo is there because Mr. Scruffy misses him, and Mr. Scruffy wants to be with Belkar. Hence why Belkar is included because any killing Belkar ever does is a small rampage.
So it has nothing to do with alignment and more to do with end goals. Belkar cared nothing for the goals of his teammates, and thus was not included in their vision. That is the only reason why. Aside from the fact that his teammates don't care about Mr. Scruffy either.
-
2013-05-25, 09:31 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2012
Re: Belkar thinks he's Chaotic Good?
I don't think that Shojo would be ressurected in Belkar's dream. That would be incoherent, since Belkar was the only one to justify the unsuccessful attempts of ressurecting Shojo.
My opinion is that Haley tried to explain the effects of the spell, but she doesn't really know what the spell actually does. So she ignored the fact that everyone there, Belkar and Scruffy included, were sharing the same dream, in which Belkar died, and lived his afterlife with Scruffy and Shojo. And we should not forget the cat's feelings too, that I think to be the main reason to Shojo be in the dream. Thus, the last panel:
Yup. Definitely just my dream.
-
2013-05-25, 09:34 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
- Location
- empty space
Re: Belkar thinks he's Chaotic Good?
Not incoherent. Shojo didn't want to be resurrected by the Lawful Good Azurite High Priest. Maybe in Belkar's mind he'd accept a rez from someone else.
I like semicolons; they make me feel smart.
-
2013-05-25, 09:38 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
- Location
- Imagination Land
- Gender
Re: Belkar thinks he's Chaotic Good?
Yeah, it is clearly Mr Scruffy's perfect world. He's got his old
servantmaster to scratch his belly and his new one to make him tuna.
-
2013-05-25, 09:40 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
- Location
- USA
- Gender
-
2013-05-25, 09:46 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2013
Re: Belkar thinks he's Chaotic Good?
The kitty does have swirly eyes after all. I think it's a combination of Belkar and Mr. Scruffy's dream, since Belkar is starting to realize that "Wacky Old Guy" had something good going there,and he is fairly one-dimensional (hurting things being the only thing he's good at).
-
2013-05-25, 10:09 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2003
- Location
- Philadelphia, PA
- Gender
Re: Belkar thinks he's Chaotic Good?
It's not the afterlife. It's Shojo's quarters, as previously seen in one of the bonus strips in War and XPs.
Belkar's dream was entirely separate from that of the rest of the Order, and he never died in his. Instead, he saw whatever improbable string of events would be required to justify Shojo's resurrection so that Mr. Scruffy could get tummy rubs, because that's what Mr. Scruffy wanted.Rich Burlew
Now Available: 2023 OOTS Holiday Ornament plus a big pile of new t-shirt designs (that you can also get on mugs and stuff)!
~~You can also support The Order of the Stick and the GITP forum at Patreon.~~
-
2013-05-25, 11:27 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2012
Re: Belkar thinks he's Chaotic Good?
Also to try to answer the OP. Whether or not it's similar to an afterlife or not, don't most evil people fail to see how they are evil and always think they are in the right?
Well, except in Belkar's case, I think he knows he's evil and enjoys it. At least, that's how it was before his curse....
-
2013-05-25, 11:41 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2008
- Location
- Right behind you
- Gender
Re: Belkar thinks he's Chaotic Good?
Good and Evil are pretty clear cut in OOTS. If Belkar thought he was good, he wouldn't carry around a lead sheet to hide from paladins. Basically, the dream comes down to these three factors. Belkar loves cooking, Mr. Scruffy loves getting tummy rubs and eating tuna, and they both like Shojo.
-
2013-05-25, 11:45 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2009
Re: Belkar thinks he's Chaotic Good?
Huh, and I though he wasn't carrying his lead sheet anymore. Since, ya know, character development
-
2013-05-26, 12:03 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
- Location
- USA
- Gender
-
2013-05-26, 12:43 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
Re: Belkar thinks he's Chaotic Good?
Probably worth noting that the one thing besides hurting people that Belkar is good at is cooking.
-
2013-05-26, 04:08 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2005
- Location
- Ēast Seaxna rīc
- Gender
Re: Belkar thinks he's Chaotic Good?
I would assume that Belkar is only evil out of deep seated rage and hatred for the world. In a perfect dream world he therefore has no reason to be evil.
"that nighted, penguin-fringed abyss" - At The Mountains of Madness, H.P. Lovecraft
When a man decides another's future behind his back, it is a conspiracy. When a god does it, it's destiny.
-
2013-05-26, 05:23 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2004
Re: Belkar thinks he's Chaotic Good?
Belkar really has changed. Roy got everyone wanting to be a fighter, Haley got a massive pile of money...but Belkar didn't get anything for Belkar himself, just for Mr. Scruffy.
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
-
2013-05-26, 05:33 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2013
Re: Belkar thinks he's Chaotic Good?
Chaotic Good? No. Having a good time with your pals is thoroughly Neutral desire.
And once again, Probability proves itself willing to sneak into a back alley and service Drama as would a copper-piece harlot.
-
2013-05-26, 06:23 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2010
- Gender
Re: Belkar thinks he's Chaotic Good?
Yes, because becoming less Evil means that you are automatically Neutral, right? In order for Belkar to even qualify for redemption, he has to accept that all his previous Evil deeds were wrong, otherwise he is just in the same situation as Tarquin. I thought people would realise by now that just because one has a few loved ones, it doesn't mean that one cannot be Evil?
: But you can't make an omelette without ruthlessly crushing dozens of eggs beneath your steel boot and then publicly disemboweling the chickens that laid them as a warning to others.
avatar made by Haruki-kun
-
2013-05-26, 06:44 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2009
- Gender
-
2013-05-26, 07:02 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
- Location
- Norway
- Gender
Re: Belkar thinks he's Chaotic Good?
He does not say anything that implies he left the sheet behind on purpose. In fact, he even asks the gladiator in front of him if he'd be so kind to yell "Smite Evil" when he attacks, presumably because Belkar would get some sadistic joy out of beating up a paladin (or at least a Miko stand-in). The whole arena prison thing also has Belkar explicitly take on the role of the local bully that everyone hates.
His character development is definitely there, but he's still rather antagonistic against people he does not care to impress. The Order gets him acting somewhat nice, while people who cross him such as Lou, Malack and random arena NPC #14 get a fight and belittling comments.
-
2013-05-26, 07:48 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2013
- Gender
Re: Belkar thinks he's Chaotic Good?
-
2013-05-26, 07:49 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
Re: Belkar thinks he's Chaotic Good?
I tend to see Belkar as being addicted to evil. From time to time he seems like he is going to kick the habit out of concern for his nearest and dearest, but then something triggers a relapse and he falls right off the wagon and for a while stops trying to be anything but his darkest impulses. Most recently this occurred when he forced a kobold to eat cat feces as revenge.
It's possible that, with nobody provoking him (real or imagined) in the illusion of a perfect world, he was able to keep his darker nature in check and could have become any alignment at all. In reality ... not so much.
-
2013-05-26, 08:01 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
- Gender
Re: Belkar thinks he's Chaotic Good?
Last edited by sam79; 2013-05-26 at 02:42 PM.
The prison was full of British officers who had sworn to die, rather than be captured.
Avatar by Rich Burlew: The Giant Stuck It To Me!
-
2013-05-26, 10:11 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2012
-
2013-05-26, 10:21 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Newcastle, UK
- Gender
Re: Belkar thinks he's Chaotic Good?
For me, the clue is in the title. Mr Scruffy has dreams. He wants food and his tummy rubbed and to be surrounded by the servants he loves. But Belkar? Belkar is just impulses. His last dream (as in something he wanted enough to plan for) was losing Miko her paladin powers.
This is why Roy can control him, because Belkar doesn't care enough to oppose his control on general principles, only on whim. And that's why Mr Scruffy's dreams dominated their shared fantasy.To the guy responsible for Belkar, Haley and Vaarsuvius. Thank you for providing over 800 comedy gems.
My Favourite Giant Posts
Well, It Took 10 Years, But His Tolerance For Rules-Based Criticism Finally Snapped Like A Dry Breadstick
Race Should Not Dictate Alignment
"What's the point in defending the defensible? Where's the challenge in that?" - Nick Naylor, Thank You for Smoking
Spot the Toxic Comic Fans! Gotta Catch 'Em All!
-
2013-05-26, 10:24 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
- Gender
Re: Belkar thinks he's Chaotic Good?
The prison was full of British officers who had sworn to die, rather than be captured.
Avatar by Rich Burlew: The Giant Stuck It To Me!
-
2013-05-26, 12:00 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2008
- Location
- Italy
- Gender
Re: Belkar thinks he's Chaotic Good?
A few strips ago belkar mentioned almost puking to death "because you weren't there to keep me from doing something stupid".
So, I think Belkar is smart enough to realize that if he just follows his impulses bad things will happen to him, and is content to let roy be the voice of his missing foresight.Last edited by King of Nowhere; 2013-05-26 at 12:01 PM.
In memory of Evisceratus: he dreamed of a better world, but he lacked the class levels to make the dream come true.
Ridiculous monsters you won't take seriously even as they disembowel you
my take on the highly skilled professional: the specialized expert
-
2013-05-26, 01:54 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
Re: Belkar thinks he's Chaotic Good?
I don't think his alignment is relevant.
Elan explained that the illusion gives everyone their hearts desire. Well Belkar apparent desires nothing more than to take care of Mr. Scruffy, and hes fine with doing it with Shojo.
Even is he's CE, the illusion is going to give him what he wants, not what he deserves, so in his fantasy world he ends up going to CG heaven.
Keep in mind Belkar is clearly moving closer and closer to CG from CE. He just wants to maintain his CE appearance for some reason.