LGBTAIitp # 49: Please check all baggage before boarding the Rainbow Rail Road

[Arkhosia]

When I cleaned both in a nightclub, my observation was that (usually - there were some disgusting exceptions) the women's tended to be messier, but the men's were usually grosser. Make of that what you will.

I once found a salad on the ground in the Men's Room at a Red Robins.

[SiuiS]

When I cleaned both in a nightclub, my observation was that (usually - there were some disgusting exceptions) the women's tended to be messier, but the men's were usually grosser. Make of that what you will.

My observations are chronic versurd acute: when the ladie room is messy it's messy, and when the men's room is clean it's a holiday.

[Serpentine]

I once found a salad on the ground in the Men's Room at a Red Robins.

I found worse in both.

[Asta Kask]

I understood it was because if the bride tripped as she went in it meant the marriage was doomed (or terrible luck in general), so to be safe she'd be carried over. A quick Google suggests all three have old origins, which is interesting.

If I had to guess which one was original (if anyone was), it's Kender's explanation. Doors and thresholds are surrounded with superstitions all over the Indo-European area (in Sweden, for instance, you're not supposed to shake hands over a threshold), and the Irish kept some old Indo-European customs, like aggressive fasting.

Don't forget that brides are only meant to wear white if they're "pure". I don't want to wear white anyway - it'll be covered in grime in no time. My mother wore a dark green power suit to her second wedding.

In Sweden they can wear white if they haven't given birth.

You should just get yourself a ballgown! They're super fun times! I have a couple. Then it can be in any colour you like!

I think we need pictures of you in a ballgown now.

Spoiler: Trigger:transphobia, TERFism

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I was looking up Germaine Greer in the context of 'Australian women who've done impressive things'. I knew she was pretty awful on the topic of trans* women, but then I found this quote where she claimed that no trans* woman "has ever begged for a uterus-and-ovaries transplant", and just stated as an axiom that no one would transition if it meant gaining a uterus and ovaries.

... which honestly makes me think she never bothered listening to trans* women in the slightest, since just watching this thread for a couple of days I've seen people explaining their dysphoria at knowing they can't bear children, your comments re periods, etc. I'm sure not all trans* women would want a uterus/ovaries, but saying that none would just seems blatantly wrong and very easy to notice. I guess I shouldn't be surprised at "oh look, bigoted person never bothered to do the slightest bit of research on the subject of their bigotry" - and it's from 1999 so pretty outdated - and reading her other articles she also goes in for transphobia of the "this idea makes me uncomfortable so I'm going to call people ugly names and deny their identities" variety, so I probably shouldn't expect rationality - but still...

Spoiler: TW Transphobia

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As you say, it isn't true but even if it was, so what? Is she saying that this supposed deal-breaker proves anything? And if it does, what does it prove? There's not even a semblance of argument here. These are just the hateful expectorations from someone who refuses to accept that the world isn't as simple as she thought it was.

[Eldest]

Pff, no. Drinking yourself to a stupor is for some teenagers, some tourists and apparently Irish-Americans. And for those who'd be drinking themselves to a stupor anyway.

Fixed that for you. It's a stupidly celebrated holiday over here, even though it is a nice one.

[Ifni]

@Asta Kask:

Spoiler: TW Transphobia

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As you say, it isn't true but even if it was, so what? Is she saying that this supposed deal-breaker proves anything? And if it does, what does it prove? There's not even a semblance of argument here. These are just the hateful expectorations from someone who refuses to accept that the world isn't as simple as she thought it was.

Spoiler: TW Transphobia

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Her argument was - and ugh, it makes me feel bad just to type this - that trans* women weren't actually identifying as women, they were just fetishizing women, so they wanted the "sexy" bits (breasts, makeup, heels, dresses) but would run screaming from anything that made them more like a cis woman as opposed to their idealized superficial image of a cis woman.

I think it's a pretty dumb argument anyway - I can absolutely understand someone not wanting a uterus and ovaries, given that all my annoying medical problems come from those organs. But most bigotry, that I've seen, is based on opinion and generalizations and it's hard to say "No, you are absolutely completely wrong, it's not just there's zero factual basis for this, there is absolute factual proof of the converse, which you should have been able to find in thirty seconds of looking". You can do it sometimes, but it's hard. (Like "women are generally worse at math than men". You can say, "Well, actually, a lot of the difference in average scores is probably due to socialization and experiences, given that it's highly unstable between countries and times, and on the areas like spatial visualization where women do worse, it's been shown you can completely close the gap by getting them to play video games for a couple of days". But you can't say "Actually women are much better at math than men" - we're not.)

The fact that she published this in a book without bothering to listen for thirty seconds to people who could have demonstrated that the entire premise was absolute bull... it was just kind of a moment for me, on how much transphobia was normalized even fifteen years ago (and is normalized still?) It's like seeing someone prominent and fairly well-respected write, completely seriously, "The only problem with Australians is their implacable insistence on wearing nothing but bright purple bathing suits at all times".

Eh. I know transphobia probably isn't surprising to you guys who have to live with it. This particular case just threw me a little because of the sheer absurdity.

I've thought about surgery just because the things are bloody annoying and painful. And I'm really not interested in having kids. So, if anyone wants a free very badly behaved uterus and ovaries, let me know and I'll start figuring out how to transplant them.*

*Warning: Comes with severe cramps, migraines, mood swings, and possible suicidal ideation.

I found hormonal birth control helped a ton for me - the pain went off like a switch. (Which was amazing 'cause I'd gotten to the point where arbitrary amounts of over-the-counter painkillers did absolutely nothing.) I doubt this is an option for trans* women given the likely interference with hormones, but it might be worth trying for you, if you haven't tried it already? (I know it's not for everyone, though, I've been lucky enough to have zero side effects.)

@Kesnit:

Spoiler: TW graphic medical stuff

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If you don't mind me asking, what medical condition? My wife has polycycstic ovarian syndrome.

Severe endometriosis, where the uterine lining grows outside the uterus, so every time I had a period it was shedding blood and tissue into regions where it really should not be. I have a couple of big blood-filled cysts on my ovaries - the little one's the size of a golf ball, the big one's somewhat larger than an orange. (I'm pretty small and skinny; this doesn't leave a whole lot of room down there.) And all the other organs in my pelvis are pulled out of alignment as a result, and stuck together with scar tissue from the endometriosis inflammation.

So yeah. Joining in the chorus of "Boo uterus/ovaries" (Although mostly "boo uterus", in my case, my ovaries are pretty well-behaved and somehow managed to keep functioning with giant cysts on them.)

Thanks for the answers regarding surprises on transitioning: very educational.

[Mina Kobold]

Wedding traditions in general tend to creep me out, they seem to primarily focus on treating women as a piece of property to be sold between men. The dresses are pretty, though... So pretty. OwO

As for periods: never had much overt envy for them, mostly because they were rarely ever brought up during my life. I am kind of wishing that I could have experienced them and have a uterus and ovaries to neglect using, though. Just having some traits that'd make people accept my gender a bit more would be nice, even if it wouldn't be noticed much. ;_;

---------

On a brighter note: I found a list of comics about being queer. ^_^

[Asta Kask]

@Asta Kask:

Spoiler: TW Transphobia

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Her argument was - and ugh, it makes me feel bad just to type this - that trans* women weren't actually identifying as women, they were just fetishizing women, so they wanted the "sexy" bits (breasts, makeup, heels, dresses) but would run screaming from anything that made them more like a cis woman as opposed to their idealized superficial image of a cis woman.

*snip*

Spoiler: Transphobia

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Ok, now we have an argument. It's a pathetically bad argument, but it's an argument. How does she know this? What studies are she relying on? I suspect this is one fat argument from Ignorance - I can't think of a better reason, so I'll just make one up. And that's not a valid argument.

You can't just pull arguments out of your ass like that, they need to be backed up by actual data. At the moment the only honest answer to "why do trans people want to 'change sex'" is "we don't know." It's one of those questions that are interesting but does not appear to have huge practical consequences. Unless the answer is that trans people are aliens who are out to take over the Earth, it really doesn't change anything in how we (cis-people) should relate to them.

[Lix Lorn]

I've thought about surgery just because the things are bloody annoying and painful. And I'm really not interested in having kids. So, if anyone wants a free very badly behaved uterus and ovaries, let me know and I'll start figuring out how to transplant them.*

*Warning: Comes with severe cramps, migraines, mood swings, and possible suicidal ideation.

It is bad enough already without the bleeding, so I will pass.
Don't want to make it any worse than it already is.

I'd call it worth it in an instant. But that's me, and I'd probably regret it when the pain started.

[Ifni]

Spoiler: Transphobia

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Ok, now we have an argument. It's a pathetically bad argument, but it's an argument. How does she know this? What studies are she relying on? I suspect this is one fat argument from Ignorance - I can't think of a better reason, so I'll just make one up. And that's not a valid argument.

You can't just pull arguments out of your ass like that, they need to be backed up by actual data. At the moment the only honest answer to "why do trans people want to 'change sex'" is "we don't know." It's one of those questions that are interesting but does not appear to have huge practical consequences. Unless the answer is that trans people are aliens who are out to take over the Earth, it really doesn't change anything in how we (cis-people) should relate to them.

Spoiler: Trigger: Transphobia, TERF arguments

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Well, yeah. That was my point. She pulled an argument totally out of her ass, didn't bother to spend the utterly minimal amount of time or interaction with trans* people that it would've taken to demonstrate that said argument was completely baseless, and got it published in a (well-read) book.

We (all of us, trans* and cis) may not know why trans* people identify as a gender other than the one they were assigned at birth, but we can exclude hypotheses, and any argument that begins with "no trans* woman would want a uterus and ovaries, THEREFORE..." fails before you even hear the argument, because it's based on a false premise.

(Also, her argument isn't even addressing identification, it's addressing presentation (while denying identification). And we do know pretty well why trans* people want to present as the gender other than the one they were assigned at birth, because they've explained it: consonance with gender identity, wanting to be accepted and treated as a member of the gender they know themselves to be.

Blargh. Not totally happy with my language here: I'm not trying to set up an "us" and "them" where "us" is cis people and "them" is trans* people, but I'm not sure how better to phrase it.)

I'm not sure I agree it should make no difference. If trans* women were, in fact, cishet men who wanted to turn themselves into their model of the ideal sexy woman (c.f. that awful Barbie discussion), lobby for free entrance into women's changing rooms so they could ogle and molest women, and intrude into women's spaces to make the discussion all about them, then... that's actually a pretty different situation to reality, where trans* women are not motivated by titillation but by being true to themselves.

The whole idea is about as sensible as the "aliens trying to take over the world" hypothesis, but if it were true (which it's not), it should make a difference in how cis women should regard trans* women. Problem is, best as I can tell, there are people who believe this That in itself shouldn't be surprising - there are people who believe in constant alien brainwashing too - but famous feminists writing stupid, baseless, directly-contradicted-by-the-evidence arguments helps prop up that line of thought. And this has real consequences in the world - yeah, the people responsible for most transphobic violence probably aren't reading Germaine Greer, but I know of at least one trans* woman who lost her job (rape crisis counsellor) because of beliefs like this.

Anyway. It just came to mind, and reminded me of my annoyance, because of the discussion about periods. I don't want to spend a lot more time grumbling about TERFs in this thread

[Karen Lynn]

So Mum's been talking to a transgender support charity, and apparently Charing Cross actually has a terrible reputation. Despite being the biggest gender clinic in the country, their standards of care are apparently not great and there's several complaints in progress against them. The representative suggested that their not giving me an appointment yet might actually be a blessing in disguise, and suggested that I try and get referred to The Laurels instead. Downside, it's in Exeter, which is rather a long way from where I live.

Define a "long way", please. I drive nearly 200 miles for my doctor. But it was well worth it. I'd drive further if I knew I could have gotten them day one.

I've thought about surgery just because the things are bloody annoying and painful. And I'm really not interested in having kids. So, if anyone wants a free very badly behaved uterus and ovaries, let me know and I'll start figuring out how to transplant them.*

*Warning: Comes with severe cramps, migraines, mood swings, and possible suicidal ideation.

Meh, I'm cool with the side effects. Now, to find a surgeon willing to do it... Wonder if I could actually find one...

[Asta Kask]

Spoiler: Trigger: Transphobia, TERF arguments

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Well, yeah. That was my point. She pulled an argument totally out of her ass, didn't bother to spend the utterly minimal amount of time or interaction with trans* people that it would've taken to demonstrate that said argument was completely baseless, and got it published in a (well-read) book.

We (all of us, trans* and cis) may not know why trans* people identify as a gender other than the one they were assigned at birth, but we can exclude hypotheses, and any argument that begins with "no trans* woman would want a uterus and ovaries, THEREFORE..." fails before you even hear the argument, because it's based on a false premise.

(Also, her argument isn't even addressing identification, it's addressing presentation (while denying identification). And we do know pretty well why trans* people want to present as the gender other than the one they were assigned at birth, because they've explained it: consonance with gender identity, wanting to be accepted and treated as a member of the gender they know themselves to be.

Blargh. Not totally happy with my language here: I'm not trying to set up an "us" and "them" where "us" is cis people and "them" is trans* people, but I'm not sure how better to phrase it.)

I'm not sure I agree it should make no difference. If trans* women were, in fact, cishet men who wanted to turn themselves into their model of the ideal sexy woman (c.f. that awful Barbie discussion), lobby for free entrance into women's changing rooms so they could ogle and molest women, and intrude into women's spaces to make the discussion all about them, then... that's actually a pretty different situation to reality, where trans* women are not motivated by titillation but by being true to themselves.

The whole idea is about as sensible as the "aliens trying to take over the world" hypothesis, but if it were true (which it's not), it should make a difference in how cis women should regard trans* women. Problem is, best as I can tell, there are people who believe this That in itself shouldn't be surprising - there are people who believe in constant alien brainwashing too - but famous feminists writing stupid, baseless, directly-contradicted-by-the-evidence arguments helps prop up that line of thought. And this has real consequences in the world - yeah, the people responsible for most transphobic violence probably aren't reading Germaine Greer, but I know of at least one trans* woman who lost her job (rape crisis counsellor) because of beliefs like this.

Anyway. It just came to mind, and reminded me of my annoyance, because of the discussion about periods. I don't want to spend a lot more time grumbling about TERFs in this thread

Spoiler: TERF

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Ok, I'll drop it. I'll just note that the most important question you can ask a scientist, or anyone who claims knowledge like that, is "how do you know?"

Meh, I'm cool with the side effects. Now, to find a surgeon willing to do it... Wonder if I could actually find one...

We're doing trials in Sweden as we speak. They're only done in cis-women, and it may be more difficult with trans women since you have to supplement hormones. But in principle there's no reason why it shouldn't work.

[Ifni]

Spoiler: TERF

Show

Ok, I'll drop it. I'll just note that the most important question you can ask a scientist, or anyone who claims knowledge like that, is "how do you know?"

@Asta Kask:

Spoiler

Show

I'm not bothered by it, just don't think it's going anywhere productive. I think you may have missed some context, too - I'm grumbling about reading the Wikipedia article for a famous feminist for whom I previously had some respect, and finding the aforementioned inane argument (which dates to a book she wrote in 1999). I wasn't really in a position to ask her questions.

If you mean "when you hear this argument from other people", then actually I'm not sure "how do you know?" is the right response here. More:

Them: "No trans* woman would ever ask for ovaries and a uterus."
Me: "... yes they would. Look."

"How do you know" is the right question when people are making claims where there's no evidence either way, and you're trying to get them to present affirmative proof. When the claim is directly contradicted by evidence to hand, "how do you know" seems an unnecessarily weak argument.

(Going with previous jokey analogy, if someone tells me all Australians refuse to wear anything except bright purple bathers, my answer is not going to be "How do you know?", because that gives the idea credence. It's gonna be, "Uh, I'm Australian".)

EDIT:

We're doing trials in Sweden as we speak. They're only done in cis-women, and it may be more difficult with trans women since you have to supplement hormones. But in principle there's no reason why it shouldn't work.

This is awesome

[SiuiS]

Yeah, see, it's that kind of carryon that I'd be expecting.



Pff, no. Drinking yourself to a stupor is for some teenagers, some tourists and apparently Irish-Americans.

To be fair, they were doing it when just Irish, too. That it got passed along to their children doesn't change that.

My mother got married (first and only time, so far ) in a white power suit, but now she regrets it, and wishes she'd gotten married in a blood-red ballgown.

Your mother is fantastic.

Wedding traditions in general tend to creep me out, they seem to primarily focus on treating women as a piece of property to be sold between men. The dresses are pretty, though... So pretty. OwO

Word. I'd probably be in a tuxedo though.

I'd call it worth it in an instant. But that's me, and I'd probably regret it when the pain started.

Pain is just your body throwing a hissy for because it's not winning the tug of war! She says as a thrysus.

Define a "long way", please. I drive nearly 200 miles for my doctor. But it was well worth it. I'd drive further if I knew I could have gotten them day one.

Aye. Different strokes; 'for an Englishman a hundred miles is a long way; for an American, a hundred years is a long time' they say. It helps to remember that street plans and cities are quite cramped by rural American standard.

@Asta Kask:
This is awesome

Aye. See? You're only a few years away from donating your crampy stabbity-face for reals!

[Asta Kask]

One of the good things is that the uterus isn't really useful except during pregnancies. So people who aren't planning on getting pregnant - like women past menopause - can donate it without really risking much (there is a risk, but it's not huge).

The sad news is that I don't expect trans women to be on the list for transplants soon. It will happen - I don't doubt that - but even if the clinical trials go off without a hitch, don't expect a womb transplant for some time. I don't know how long.

Pain is just your body throwing a hissy for because it's not winning the tug of war! She says as a thrysus.

I realize I may regret this, but what is a thrysus?

[Serpentine]

Yeah, is that a Mage reference? =.=

As an aside... I'm an Australian who has worn more than one bright purple swimsuit

[Ifni]

Yeah, is that a Mage reference? =.=

As an aside... I'm an Australian who has worn more than one bright purple swimsuit

I have no problem with bright purple swimsuits, but as an Australian currently living in a rather snowy city, they're not appropriate for all situations

(And hey, my jokey analogy still works there: there's nothing wrong with bright purple swimsuits, and there's nothing wrong with trans* women not wanting a uterus/ovaries, but saying that bright purple swimsuits are universal / trans* women not wanting a uterus/ovaries is universal is just silly )

[Serpentine]

I have no problem with bright purple swimsuits, but as an Australian currently living in a rather snowy city, they're not appropriate for all situations

Hmmm... I'm thinking Tasmania or Armidale. There's other places, but they're not cities.

[Ifni]

Hmmm... I'm thinking Tasmania or Armidale. There's other places, but they're not cities.

Nah, I'm Australian but living in the US Sorry.

(If Tasmanian cities have snow at this time of year, eeek )

[Coidzor]

I am fascinated to hear about the "every boy going through puberty wants to be a girl" thing: it's not an idea I've ever encountered before. I mean, really, womanhood looks that attractive from the outside? (to boys, not trans* girls) I'm a bit surprised.

Definitely new to me. I'm left wondering who was spreading it and why. Especially as the only "boys" who wanted to be girls that I encountered during puberty were trans* and knew it(even if their specific knowledge of their trans* identity changed over time) and so either not actually boys at all or only boys part of the time(If I'm recalling that last part correctly anyway).

Don't forget that brides are only meant to wear white if they're "pure". I don't want to wear white anyway - it'll be covered in grime in no time.

Are dust storms common during the wedding season in Australia?

It's kind of amusing - I'd want to wear white for exactly that reason. I consider myself "pure" in the things that matter for that, and screw anyone else who wants to regulate whether I can say that.

Or reject the idea entirely and wear whatever you want because anyone who tries to make a scene wouldn't be invited in the first place.

Pff, no. Drinking yourself to a stupor is for some teenagers, some tourists and apparently Irish-Americans.

Hey, don't discriminate. Plenty of Americans who aren't Irish enough to count as Irish-American or who don't even have a drop of Irish in their family trees binge drink as well.

We did have shamrock-flavoured crisps and "Happy St Patrick's Day" napkins, but the latter were sent as a gift from the US!

Shamrock-flavored crisps? And those were from Eire but napkins simply saying Happy St. Patrick's Day could only be obtained in the U.S.? Interesting.

I'm counting "lack of injuries" as part of "comfortable". Comfortable, as in, without the pain of doing in your back or whacking anyone's head off anything. Also, yes, actually, western Europe _is_ catching up to the US in obesity rates! UK's leading the way, but we're getting there too.

That's a strange definition of comfort to me. I can safely lift a hundred pound sack of flour and port it around and manhandle it without hurting myself or accidentally breaking it, but I wouldn't call it comfortable since it still is heavier than what I usually lift in my day to day routine, especially because you're normally only really supposed to run into things that are around 50 pounds, maybe 60 pounds, if they're to be lifted manually due to various regulations. Though at least with a 120-140 pound human(I'm getting ~61 kg) they're at least helping balance their weight.

Well, that's a downright shame, I'm sorry.

My mother got married (first and only time, so far ) in a white power suit, but now she regrets it, and wishes she'd gotten married in a blood-red ballgown.

...All I can think of from that is an image of someone marrying The Mórrígan.

My wife wore a green and blue dress. Then again, there was symbology in that. Earth and Water are the feminine elements; Air and Fire are Masculine. (I was in yellow and red.)

Always interesting how Earth and Air will switch off depending upon who is talking.

The one thing I miss about being female is women's bathrooms. Not for the social aspect - for the cleanliness! Men's bathrooms are NASTY!!!

Spoiler: TW: Bathrooms and human waste disposal

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As someone who has had to clean bathrooms, I must disagree. Having to deal with biohazardous waste is much more common in women's lavatories, and don't get me started on having to deal with women trying to flush their bloody, bloody products and clogging the toilets or having blood-encrusted, otherwise unidentifiable masses stuck to the walls and other things. *shudder*

Just having the basic practice of someone cleaning the restrooms regularly so that no one takes away the message that defiling the bathroom is accepted and regular practice pretty much precludes the vast majority of horror stories of men's bathrooms. Not so with women's bathrooms.

I once found a salad on the ground in the Men's Room at a Red Robins.

Ah, yes, salad, the most horrifying of messes. Lettuce and ranch dressing everywhere. Unless that's some kind of innuendo.

[Karen Lynn]

Aye. Different strokes; 'for an Englishman a hundred miles is a long way; for an American, a hundred years is a long time' they say. It helps to remember that street plans and cities are quite cramped by rural American standard.

Oh, I know. Never heard the saying before, but I like it.

And of course a hundred years is a long time! That's just shy of half the age of our nation!

And for the English people, it's the same way in the North East of the US. A half hour drive is an all day affair, whereas a half hour drive is about the limit I'm willing to push for commute time to work.

It is really interesting listening to people talk about their perspective on distance, time, near/far, and the like. It really is a very binary debate. Either 100 miles isn't all that far, or it's a weekend trip.

[golentan]

Oh, I know. Never heard the saying before, but I like it.

And of course a hundred years is a long time! That's just shy of half the age of our nation!

And for the English people, it's the same way in the North East of the US. A half hour drive is an all day affair, whereas a half hour drive is about the limit I'm willing to push for commute time to work.

It is really interesting listening to people talk about their perspective on distance, time, near/far, and the like. It really is a very binary debate. Either 100 miles isn't all that far, or it's a weekend trip.

For me, I've noticed that I tend to view time as short (I've occasionally referred to Jane Austen and Shakespeare as modern authors to the confusion of people in the conversation with me, and I'm still mad at some things that happened before the fall of the Roman Empire) but I'm much more mixed on the subject of distance (100 miles is a long way, but not a weekend trip usually. I'll complain about the distance, but I'll make the journey and usually return in a single day)

[noparlpf]

100 miles is a fairly short drive. I drive 170 miles and back most weekends.

[Mono Vertigo]

... boys want to be girl during puberty now? What the hell? Not only have I never heard of it, but I was under the opposite impression; that boys were pretty happy to become men (or, at worst, be made uncomfortable by puberty the way pretty much all teenagers are). Of course, I'm going to assume here it's not the juvenile fantasy of being a heterosexual male and having breasts available for groping in permanence.
I really wonder where that comes from.

I've thought about surgery just because the things are bloody annoying and painful. And I'm really not interested in having kids. So, if anyone wants a free very badly behaved uterus and ovaries, let me know and I'll start figuring out how to transplant them.*

*Warning: Comes with severe cramps, migraines, mood swings, and possible suicidal ideation.

Make it two. I got the exact same in every way. One of the things I inherited from my mom. In fact, I'm doing a favour to my potential daughters and granddaughters by deciding not to have kids! If they're not born from me, there's no chance for me to pass it on to them!

[Coidzor]

Spoiler: Transphobia

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Ok, now we have an argument. It's a pathetically bad argument, but it's an argument. How does she know this? What studies are she relying on? I suspect this is one fat argument from Ignorance - I can't think of a better reason, so I'll just make one up. And that's not a valid argument.

You can't just pull arguments out of your ass like that, they need to be backed up by actual data. At the moment the only honest answer to "why do trans people want to 'change sex'" is "we don't know." It's one of those questions that are interesting but does not appear to have huge practical consequences. Unless the answer is that trans people are aliens who are out to take over the Earth, it really doesn't change anything in how we (cis-people) should relate to them.

Spoiler: Transphobia Discussion

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Well, if we knew what causes dysphoria we could potentially find ways to address it directly and control and manage it as well as or better than we manage things like depression and anxiety while sorting out the transition process. And it seems at least plausible that if we could find the origin of transgenderism we'd be closer to figuring out dysphoria and its chemical triggers

Spoiler: Trigger: Transphobia, TERF arguments

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Well, yeah. That was my point. She pulled an argument totally out of her ass, didn't bother to spend the utterly minimal amount of time or interaction with trans* people that it would've taken to demonstrate that said argument was completely baseless, and got it published in a (well-read) book.

We (all of us, trans* and cis) may not know why trans* people identify as a gender other than the one they were assigned at birth, but we can exclude hypotheses, and any argument that begins with "no trans* woman would want a uterus and ovaries, THEREFORE..." fails before you even hear the argument, because it's based on a false premise.

Spoiler: Transphobia Discussion

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She wouldn't have even had to interact with living, breathing trans* people. Or even non-trans* people who know a lick about trans* people and trans* issues and concerns.

It's a matter of historical record that there have been trans women who died as the result of complications arising from uterine transplants.

So yeah.

Meh, I'm cool with the side effects. Now, to find a surgeon willing to do it... Wonder if I could actually find one...

My current understanding is that they've only recently begun to look into uterine transplants again after stopping in the 1970s because in vitro fertilization became a thing, and, IIRC, the trans women who received uterine transplants invariably rejected them and had nasty complications back in the dark ages of the early 20th century.

Anyone recall how things are going with that or with more clarity? I'm sure I've misremembered something there.

So Mum's been talking to a transgender support charity, and apparently Charing Cross actually has a terrible reputation. Despite being the biggest gender clinic in the country, their standards of care are apparently not great and there's several complaints in progress against them. The representative suggested that their not giving me an appointment yet might actually be a blessing in disguise, and suggested that I try and get referred to The Laurels instead. Downside, it's in Exeter, which is rather a long way from where I live.

I wish you luck with being able to finagle the transportation then, as even with that it seems a better bet than waiting another 5 years for the bureaucracy to address the problems there and for you to finally get a slot.

[Philemonite]

Please don't, we don't need another lockdown.

[Lentrax]

News spread.

Message Received.

[Arkhosia]

News spread.

Message Received.

Hehe

Yep, I'm trans!

[Asta Kask]

Message deleted. Arkhosia, will you do the same?

[Arkhosia]

Message deleted. Arkhosia, will you do the same?

... what message?