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2024-01-28, 11:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Energy Drain, Negative Level, Level Drain Resource
W.r.t. protections, the Font of Life feat grants a bonus extra save for a character to resist energy drain or a negative level.
Build help: Piercing Immunities | Skillfull full casters | Uptier base classes | Top 10 spells/level
PO: Core Fighter 20 > Pit Fiend | Whale Wrestler | Minimal Mailman | Wizard 1 > Fighter 1 | Team Mundane
TO: ExFighter | Eliminate spell defenses | All spells in no time | Planar Soldiers of Mystra | Best Nuke | Warmage vs. Favored Soul | Death Cults | E6 Circle Magic
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2024-01-29, 07:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Energy Drain, Negative Level, Level Drain Resource
Race:
Shadar-Kai (Fiend Folio) - Shadow Curse:
A shadar-kai with a damaged soul gains one negative level that cannot be removed until she restores her soul completely. If exposed to another event that requires a save against the shadow curse, a shadar-kai may gain additional negative levels.
Monstrous Vampire (Ghostwalk)
Monster:
Vampire Dire Wolf
Also, the "Creatures That Cannot Be" article series gave us "Vampiric Plants" and "The Demon Vampire" (also, Ooze Vampire was mentioned)
From the 3rd-party Ravenloft, I managed to find so far (besides the various Vampires):
Cloaker, Undead (Denizens of Dread)
Figurine, Porcelain (Denizens of Dread) - Enervation Ray
Golem, Dread (Ravenloft Campaign Setting) - "Salient Powers" rules: among those powers is Energy Drain
Spectral Hag (Denizens of Dread) - not just their Chilling Touch bestows negative levels, but those who die from it would become a Spectre, and all Spectral Hags have Summon Spectre SA
Energy Drain feat (Champions of Darkness) - by spending Rebuke/Command attempt, you can try to inflict Cha mod negative levels as melee touch attack (Fort save DC 10 + divine CL)Last edited by ShurikVch; 2024-01-30 at 08:56 AM.
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2024-01-30, 01:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Energy Drain, Negative Level, Level Drain Resource
Minor note, but you've missed how the Soulbreaker quality works, because it uses the MIC-only "Synergy" rules. The key is the line in the Soulbreaker description on page 44 saying "Synergy Prerequisite: Enervating". Per pages 224 and 225 of the MIC, a Synergy property not only requires another property on the item first, but also subsumes and replaces the prerequisite property. That's probably why the SRD lists it as a +3, because effectively it *is*; it's a +1 that must be applied on top of the Enervating quality's +2 and which causes the Enervating quality to have no effect of its own. So no double negative level effect from taking both Enervating and Soulbreaker, and no taking Soulbreaker on its own for the price of a +1 quality.
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2024-01-30, 05:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Energy Drain, Negative Level, Level Drain Resource
One more monster (which I surprised to don't see in the list): Nabassu demon (Fiendish Codex I) - their Death-Stealing Gaze inflicts 1 negative level in case of Juvenile Nabassu (or 1d4 - for Mature Nabassu)
Heart of the Nabassu [Abyssal Heritor] feat:
Your ancestry traces back to a place where the Abyss meets the Negative Energy Plane.
Benefit: You can absorb harmlessly a number of negative levels per day equal to the number of Abyssal heritor feats you possess. For example, if you have two Abyssal heritor feats, you can gain up to two negative levels on a given day and not suffer any ill effects.
Special: Your barest tie to the Negative Energy Plane is offputting to animals. You take a –2 penalty on Handle Animal checks.
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2024-01-30, 07:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Energy Drain, Negative Level, Level Drain Resource
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2024-02-01, 02:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Energy Drain, Negative Level, Level Drain Resource
All right, so I've updated the guide to account for all this stuff, and out of interest I went and built a level drainer which is a bit more RAW legal than the martial one that's in the thread (which uses some feats that don't exist under 3.5 at all). Here's Jack B. Negative, a bit of a riff on Jack B. Quick who squeezes in Lightning Mace and Roundabout Kick onto a standard AoO, Tripping build:
Ranger 2/Barbarian 2/Martial Rogue 2/Fighter 10/Warblade 4.
Human, no flaws.
Wield 2 Aptitude, Enervating kukris made of Abyssal Bloodiron and with the Pitspawned template (DMG 2, it's like Feycraft).
Rough build outline:
1 HD (BAB 1) Ranger 1 - (HD feat - Combat Reflexes) (Human feat - Weapon Focus – Light Mace)
2 HD (BAB 2) Ranger 2 – (TWF)
3 HD (BAB 3) Lion Totem Barbarian 1 - (HD feat - Lightning Mace) (Pounce) (Whirling Frenzy)
4 HD (BAB 4) Wolf Totem Barbarian 2 – (Improved Trip)
5 HD (BAB 4) Martial Rogue 1 – (Deft Opportunist)
6 HD (BAB 5) Martial Rogue 2 - (HD feat – Weapon Focus (longsword)) (Weapon Focus (handaxe))
7 HD (BAB 6) Fighter 1 – (Improved TWF)
8 HD (BAB 7) Fighter 2 – (Double Hit)
9 HD (BAB 8) Fighter 3 - (HD feat – High Sword, Low Axe)
10 HD (BAB 9) Fighter 4 – (Improved Critical)
11 HD (BAB 10) Fighter 5
12 HD (BAB 11) Fighter 6 -- (HD feat - Murderous Intent) (Power Attack)
13 HD (BAB 12) Fighter 7
14 HD (BAB 13) Fighter 8 -- (Robilar’s Gambit)
15 HD (BAB 14) Fighter 9 -- (HD feat - Improved Unarmed Strike)
16 HD (BAB 15) Fighter 10 -- (Roundabout Kick)
17 HD (BAB 16) Warblade 1
18 HD (BAB 17) Warblade 2 (HD feat – Overwhelming Assault)
19 HD (BAB 18) Warblade 3
20 HD (BAB 19) Warblade 4
Take Blood in the Water as a Warblade, giving you a +1 to attack and damage with each critical hit, and random other maneuvers to add some gloss on the end of this. Your critical threat range is 15-20. Any critical threat results in another attack under Lightning Mace. Any critical hit results in another attack using Roundabout Kick. You have a default critical confirmation bonus of 6+INT: +4 from Abyssal Bloodiron, +2 from the Pitspawned Template, and +INT from the Warblade's class features. Against a favored enemy, you automatically confirm critical hits with Murderous Intent. Your Aptitude weapons allow you to apply the benefits of Roundabout Kick, Lightning Mace, and High Sword, Low Axe simultaneously (the only question being whether an unarmed strike is a weapon that an Aptitude weapon can act on. It seems a common assumption in builds that you can.) One critical threat on your many AoOs is enough to start this chain of additional attacks and negative levels off.
If you want a little more BAB, take 2 flaw feats and replace the levels in Martial Rogue with something else, probably 2 more Ranger levels, possibly trading out your Ranger spellcasting ability for Champion of the Wild ACF which gives you one more feat on top at Ranger 4. If I had to affect a crit-immune enemy, I'd make the kukris out of Kaorti Resin and take Supernatural Blow from 3.0, which is still valid and unupdated and allows some bonus dice on immunes.
EDIT: Indeed, a simpler build would be just a Jack B. Quick build wielding two Aptitude, Homeland Champion weapons. There you don't need to even generate critical hits and can repurpose both Lightning Mace and Roundabout Kick: if the target is an enemy of the weapon's homeland, it does a negative level on a hit.Last edited by Saintheart; 2024-02-01 at 08:36 PM.
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2024-02-03, 12:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Energy Drain, Negative Level, Level Drain Resource
How about the Knowledge Arcana magazine?
#2 has Gunthosh undead with Spittle of Darkness SA which caused negative levels
#9 - Death Salad undead (not to be confused with Death Slaad ) with Energy Drain
Couple more things from Ravenloft:
Chiang-shi (Denizens of Dread) - this vampire strain (like many other strains) have access to Energy Drain
Van Richten's Guide to the Walking Dead gives less a "static" templates and more of a "toolbox" to create new/uncommon/unique Undead; those of the Restless Dead variety have access to the Touch of Darkness salient power (and Energy Drain is one of possible effects for it)
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2024-02-04, 11:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Energy Drain, Negative Level, Level Drain Resource
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2024-02-05, 03:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Energy Drain, Negative Level, Level Drain Resource
Very interesting ;)
Now i klnow, how to suck the life out of my players *rofl*
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2024-02-05, 03:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Energy Drain, Negative Level, Level Drain Resource
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2024-02-06, 08:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Energy Drain, Negative Level, Level Drain Resource
Dragon Annual #5 has some ray-specific metamagic
Note:
Ray Burst - ray replaced with 30' burst (centered on the caster); creatures which are farther than 10' (but, obviously, no farther than 30') allowed Reflex save; +3 metamagic
Ray Coning - ray replaced with 30' cone; creatures in the area allowed Reflex save; +2 metamagic
Spell-Lens (City of Splendors: Waterdeep) attached to a Wand, those lens apply Empower and Enlarge to the spell (at the cost of x3 charges); 13,500 gp
Also, one more spell which causes negative levels: Soul ChargeLast edited by ShurikVch; 2024-02-06 at 08:31 PM.
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2024-02-06, 09:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Energy Drain, Negative Level, Level Drain Resource
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2024-02-07, 12:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2012
Re: 3.5 Energy Drain, Negative Level, Level Drain Resource
The Sporebat from Fiend Folio is a flying monster that is actually a plant, not a bat. It gets an enervation ray once per round as a 12th level Sorcerer.
Mostly relevant b/c it is a Summon Nature's Ally VIII option and Druids don't get many good enervation options. In a lengthy battle, the ray each round could add up. And with Ring of the Beast, at least it only costs a 7th level slot.
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2024-02-07, 02:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Energy Drain, Negative Level, Level Drain Resource
Imbue Arrow with DMM Reach+Coning (or Reach+Burst)?
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2024-02-07, 03:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Energy Drain, Negative Level, Level Drain Resource
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2024-02-07, 04:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Energy Drain, Negative Level, Level Drain Resource
Regarding Expedition to Castle Ravenloft, honorable mention to the paladin ACF warded special mount:
The lightbringer paladin is a special, favored warrior of light. The gods protect his special mount so that the powers of darkness cannot easily defeat him.
Level: 6th.
Replaces: One weekly use of remove disease.
Benefit: In addition to the standard qualities of a special mount, a lightbringer paladin's mount is immune to all death spells, magical death effects, energy drain, and any negative energy effects (such as from inflict spells or chill touch).
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2024-02-07, 05:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Energy Drain, Negative Level, Level Drain Resource
There are two classes in dragon magazine #302 with special verbiage saying that level loss can apply to them first, even if they aren't the last levels taken. See here for discussion.
Last edited by Anthrowhale; 2024-02-07 at 05:52 AM.
Build help: Piercing Immunities | Skillfull full casters | Uptier base classes | Top 10 spells/level
PO: Core Fighter 20 > Pit Fiend | Whale Wrestler | Minimal Mailman | Wizard 1 > Fighter 1 | Team Mundane
TO: ExFighter | Eliminate spell defenses | All spells in no time | Planar Soldiers of Mystra | Best Nuke | Warmage vs. Favored Soul | Death Cults | E6 Circle Magic
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2024-02-07, 06:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Energy Drain, Negative Level, Level Drain Resource
Yes.
RAW for Imbue Arrow was this way in both 3.0 and 3.5, and even Errata don't changed it
Thus, yes - Arcane Archer can cast as a standard action even Apocalypse from the Sky (Casting Time: 1 day)
(Arcane Archer is underpowered anyway - let's give them something nice)
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2024-02-07, 08:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Energy Drain, Negative Level, Level Drain Resource
Thanks for that - I will include it, it's appreciated!
Noted and it is intriguing, adding more depth to level loss shenanigans. I'll get a summary of that into the 'More fun with level loss' section. :)
Very interesting. Immediate first RAW gouda that occurs: Be Cleric, take 1 level in Ranger. Cast Arrowsplit via a Ranger wand in a Wand Chamber on your bow, then Imbue Arrow with Soul Charge. Rely on Arrowsplit producing "identical" arrows all imbued with Soul Charge. Still needs a ranged attack roll, and draws a Fort save, but impose up to 1d4+1 negative levels, that's better than Enervation in a third level spell slot and it recharges your Arrowsplit wand since Arrowsplit is a "third level spell" ... Ranger 3, Assassin 3, Other Randoms 3. As you say, to get around the "area" requirements of the spell, Ray Coning or Burst would fix that, especially on DMM.
EDIT: So I did a bit more reading and drilling on this one, and a couple of random thoughts for the brains trust before I put it in as a combination:
(1) By RAW you could actually use Ocular Spell on Soul Charge. It's a Touch range spell that qualifies to become a ray, and Ocular Spells can be cast ahead of time. So then it becomes a standard metamagic combination best utilised by an Incantatrix: Soul Charge -> Ray under Ocular Spell -> Split Ray -> Twin Spell -> wights4u, similar to how Anthrowhale built it with Enervation, albeit it's not as devastating because Enervation gives you 1d4 negative levels and this only gives you 1 as the base. That said, you can do more of it per day since Soul Charge is a level 3 spell. And best bonus, Lesser Metamagic Rods work on it by RAW since Soul Charge is a level 3 spell.
(2) The Imbue Arrow trick works if we also assume that metamagic can be applied to an imbued spell. I think there's an argument for this because spells are prepared in given slots as determined by what metamagic is put on them. As said, the only hinky point is that Soul Charge isn't a spell with an area, and we need an area for it to click properly into Imbue Arrow's wording. So: Soul Charge -> Ocular Spell makes it a ray -> Ray Burst since it's now a ray -> Imbue Arrow since it's a now an area spell, and even if it has metamagic applied to it it's still "a spell" -> Wand of Arrowsplit -> shoot 1d4+1 arrows with Soul Charge on them which hit as burst effects, hitting everything in a 30' radius with 1d4+1 negative levels, and also recharging your wand of Arrowsplit.
(3) That said, there's a simpler cheese for negative levels via Arcane Archer: Necrotic Skull Bomb + Sorcerer/Wizard 9 + Ranger 1 + Wand of Arrowsplit + Arcane Archer 2. Cast Arrowsplit via the Wand on your arrow, drop Necrotic Skull Bomb into it with Imbue Arrow. In flight, the arrow becomes 1d4+1 arrows, and therefore hits every target in a 20' radius with between 2 and 20 negative levels, subject to Fort saves, since each arrow is carrying 1d4 negative levels on it.
EDIT THE SECOND: Also, testing this combination: Necropolitan Paladin + Sacrificial Smiting weapon = infinite Smite Evil uses, infinite healing.
The negative level imposed by a Sacrificial Smiting weapon is not said to be other than a negative energy effect. If that's correct, together with the fact that the undead type doesn't forbid a character accepting a negative level (which is what the Sacrificial Smiting weapon requires) this would suggest a Necropolitan Paladin gets infinite smites from his weapon and indeed is healed by them.Last edited by Saintheart; 2024-02-08 at 03:56 AM.
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2024-02-14, 03:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Energy Drain, Negative Level, Level Drain Resource
In the category "protecting from negative levels", some spells or powers are missing.
First, an ACF:
Originally Posted by Exemplars of Evil
Originally Posted by Tome and Blood: A Guidebook to Wizards and Sorcerers
Originally Posted by Spell Compendium
Originally Posted by Savage Species
Originally Posted by Magic of EberronSpoiler
DM: At the end of the meal, the innkeeper is bringing you the cheese plate. Roll for initiative.
PC: Excuse me, what?
DM: I said, roll for initiative. They like their cheese really ripe in these parts. They have the ooze type.
"Excuse me, but... is it a GOOD or a BAD thing when the DM can't help bursting into laughter every time he hears the phrase 'level-appropriate encounter'? No, just curious..."
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2024-02-14, 07:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Energy Drain, Negative Level, Level Drain Resource
^^^
All added in now - much appreciated, StFan!
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2024-02-17, 06:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Energy Drain, Negative Level, Level Drain Resource
Stuff against negative levels:
Avoid Planar Effects spell (Spell Compendium) - against negative levels on Negative-dominant planes
Stygian Veil and Stygian Ward psionic powers (Complete Psionic)
Lasting Life feat (Libris Mortis) allows to remove a negative level with a Will save every round (and failed saves causing no extra complications - can just attempt one more time); Enduring Life feat - prerequisite for Lasting Life - allow to act like you don't get negative level for a number of rounds (equal to Con bonus, if any) and +4 on Fort saves to remove negative levels
For monsters:
Spells(/invocations/powers) could be done into Living Spells
Also, why Necromental is in the "Monsters" and not "Templates"? For example, Shrine of Orcus - in The Sinister Spire adventure - includes couple of Fevers (which are really just Medium Fire Elementals with Necromental template)
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2024-02-17, 07:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Energy Drain, Negative Level, Level Drain Resource
Iron Heart Surge also removes negative levels since energy drained is a condition which does not prevent actions.
Build help: Piercing Immunities | Skillfull full casters | Uptier base classes | Top 10 spells/level
PO: Core Fighter 20 > Pit Fiend | Whale Wrestler | Minimal Mailman | Wizard 1 > Fighter 1 | Team Mundane
TO: ExFighter | Eliminate spell defenses | All spells in no time | Planar Soldiers of Mystra | Best Nuke | Warmage vs. Favored Soul | Death Cults | E6 Circle Magic
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2024-02-17, 07:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Energy Drain, Negative Level, Level Drain Resource
A side note about negative levels: it is one of the effects (alongside mind-affecting and personal spells) that will affect both twins in a Dvati pair even if only one of them is targeted.
Spoiler
DM: At the end of the meal, the innkeeper is bringing you the cheese plate. Roll for initiative.
PC: Excuse me, what?
DM: I said, roll for initiative. They like their cheese really ripe in these parts. They have the ooze type.
"Excuse me, but... is it a GOOD or a BAD thing when the DM can't help bursting into laughter every time he hears the phrase 'level-appropriate encounter'? No, just curious..."
Extended signature
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2024-02-17, 07:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Energy Drain, Negative Level, Level Drain Resource
Spoiler
DM: At the end of the meal, the innkeeper is bringing you the cheese plate. Roll for initiative.
PC: Excuse me, what?
DM: I said, roll for initiative. They like their cheese really ripe in these parts. They have the ooze type.
"Excuse me, but... is it a GOOD or a BAD thing when the DM can't help bursting into laughter every time he hears the phrase 'level-appropriate encounter'? No, just curious..."
Extended signature
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2024-02-17, 10:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Energy Drain, Negative Level, Level Drain Resource
Build help: Piercing Immunities | Skillfull full casters | Uptier base classes | Top 10 spells/level
PO: Core Fighter 20 > Pit Fiend | Whale Wrestler | Minimal Mailman | Wizard 1 > Fighter 1 | Team Mundane
TO: ExFighter | Eliminate spell defenses | All spells in no time | Planar Soldiers of Mystra | Best Nuke | Warmage vs. Favored Soul | Death Cults | E6 Circle Magic
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2024-02-17, 11:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Energy Drain, Negative Level, Level Drain Resource
The debate about how and what Iron Heart Surge can apply to is indefinitely unresolved and unending. It is always up to the DM to make a final call.
I personally interpret "1 round or more" as "duration expressed in rounds" and that's final. If the duration is in minutes, hours or days (or is instantaneous or permanent), then it isn't concerned. It still cover a lot of debuffs, some of them quite powerful, but nothing that would last longer than one fight.Spoiler
DM: At the end of the meal, the innkeeper is bringing you the cheese plate. Roll for initiative.
PC: Excuse me, what?
DM: I said, roll for initiative. They like their cheese really ripe in these parts. They have the ooze type.
"Excuse me, but... is it a GOOD or a BAD thing when the DM can't help bursting into laughter every time he hears the phrase 'level-appropriate encounter'? No, just curious..."
Extended signature
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2024-02-17, 04:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Energy Drain, Negative Level, Level Drain Resource
Yeah, I don't expect resolution. For me, ability damage->no it's damage, lost level->no it's lost. Can't take standard action -> no. Not an official condition -> no. Not lasting for at least a round -> no. Ability damage -> ... probably no as condition specifies need for magic.
This leaves IHS plausibly more powerful than most other L3 maneuvers except White Raven Tactics which is bonkers-good. In particular, it would allow removing, negative levels (2 character levels before restoration), blindness (same character level), exhaustion (2 levels after lesser restoration), and even confused (on a round you can act normally only, the same level as dispel magic). Of course this is instantaneous only, so if you use it to remove dazzle from the sun you'll get just a brief instant of not being dazzled. Overall, roughly equivalent to appropriate-level cleric spells, except self-only and invokable multiple times/day.Build help: Piercing Immunities | Skillfull full casters | Uptier base classes | Top 10 spells/level
PO: Core Fighter 20 > Pit Fiend | Whale Wrestler | Minimal Mailman | Wizard 1 > Fighter 1 | Team Mundane
TO: ExFighter | Eliminate spell defenses | All spells in no time | Planar Soldiers of Mystra | Best Nuke | Warmage vs. Favored Soul | Death Cults | E6 Circle Magic
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2024-02-17, 10:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Energy Drain, Negative Level, Level Drain Resource
Worth noting that in some cases, negative levels do last for X number of rounds. It isn't always hard-locked to 24 hours, and in many cases the negative levels only last X number of hours (usually CL number of hours). Negative levels also are not lost levels, they are an effect (although casters do lose one prepared spell, so it's not completely certain.) But Schrodinger's Heart Surge can arguably shut down the Sun, we're not going to get a definitive ruling anywhere here :)
And thanks again for the additions, guys, I will get them in ASAP.Last edited by Saintheart; 2024-02-17 at 10:52 PM.
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2024-02-24, 09:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5 Energy Drain, Negative Level, Level Drain Resource
One more Ravenloft moment
Death - the Darklord of Necropolis - got two notable abilities:
1) Touch of the Reaper - inflict 2d4 negative levels (or 1d4 - at successful save); besides living creatures, it also explicitly works on Undead
2) Bestow Corruption - at the cost of losing 1 HD, Death can grant the Death's Child special quality to Undead, which allow to inflict 1 negative level with natural attack (or, if Undead already has Energy Drain - amount of negative levels inflicted increased by 1); just like the aforementioned Touch of the Reaper, this negative level is effective against Undead too - but only 1 negative level - not the whole Energy Drain (if any); alternately, with this ability Death can create new Undead (but lose amount of HD equal to the number of HD of Undead created)