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Thread: Warlock the single class
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2018-11-29, 09:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2014
Re: Warlock the single class
2 slots for levels 2-10. Per short rest.
Of which you should be getting 2-3 per long rest (meaning 6-8 slots per long rest - enough for 1 max level slot per encounter, plus at will cantrips and invocations).
Before you cry 'My DM doesnt run a game with 2-3 short rests per long rest as recommended by the DMG', take that up with your DM.
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2018-11-29, 11:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2018
Re: Warlock the single class
I feel like warlock is a flawed class overall.
Their spell list is really limited.
But that's okay they have invocations, right?
But then you realize that between Eldritch Blast and Blade Pact, there's too many invocation taxes taking up slots to really customize your character
That's fine, who cares about optimization
Then at this stage you realize the purpose of the invocation taxes; to stop you from realizing that warlock invocations simply don't have that many interesting options.
Fun things like beast speech and eyes of the rune keeper are supposed to compete with...normal spells that could have been on the spell list anyways. Or other "basically also a tax" like armor of shadows. Or worse, Beguiling Influence. Not even so much as a giving expertise on that one...
Too many invocations feel like WotC took away spellcasting abilities just so you can be grateful when they give them back. They went the easy and lazy route instead of making invocations that couldn't be replicated with spells.
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2018-11-29, 11:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2015
Re: Warlock the single class
Yeah celestial warlocks are nasty! Maximized cure light wounds is great. Its always cast at max level, and you can just take a short rest to regain it. Normally I'm against healing as a combat option, but these options actually can outheal damage.
For me, its all about the master of disguise. Invisibile scouts, and unlimited disguises while handing out hexes and curses right under their noses. Really puts rogues to shame. I already have my character ready but I'm worried the DM will think its too OP.
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2018-11-29, 11:43 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2014
Re: Warlock the single class
See:
If you want to play a Wizard then play a Wizard.
The same thing happens to the Sorcerer.
If you want to play a caster who has a large breadth of spells to choose from, then play a Wizard.
I like having more powerful spells and I'm okay with the trade off being that I have fewer to choose from.
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2018-11-29, 11:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2015
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2018-11-30, 12:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2014
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2018-11-30, 12:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2015
Re: Warlock the single class
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2018-11-30, 01:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
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- Massachusetts
Re: Warlock the single class
They can be anything
Scout
Blaster
Buffer
Tank
Striker
Infiltrator
Face
And some can heal
And they are fascinating, and hex blade can do it with 1 stat and a decent con.
Well made and written.
And they are very emo and my boring fighter hates them, like young Anakin hated sand people
Great class, they're not my style, but can do everything on the list... and are cool doing it.
My fighters hate them
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2018-11-30, 04:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2018
Re: Warlock the single class
IMO Warlock is the best to mix, but no good for single.
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2018-11-30, 05:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2017
Re: Warlock the single class
I played a warlock in my last campaign (we went up to level 13) and I had a(n eldritch) blast.
You always have something relevant to do, you are never out of resources, and you can make amazing use of thoses lvl 2-3 spells.
Need to sneak => the whole party is invisible
Need to flee => we fly
Need to break someone out of jail, just teleport trough the wall with ghostsight invocation.
As for a roleplay poitn of view, THIS IS AMAZING, the is so much you can do.
Work with your DM to shape your patron.
Need a plot hook : well the warlock's patron want something.
Need assistance, find a way to contact your patron.
Warlock is amazing.
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2018-11-30, 08:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2016
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2018-11-30, 09:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
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- Texas
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Re: Warlock the single class
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
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2018-11-30, 09:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2015
Re: Warlock the single class
Questionably OP. The Hexblade is definitely OP, but that's Medium armor as a small fraction of a level's class features. If we use Feat logic, 4 weapons + Medium/Shield prof should be about 1 level's worth of class feature, so it might have been balanced to have Pact of the Blade provide it.
OTOH complaints about Bladelocks generally boil down to wanting to have their cake and eat it too. And GISHs in general for that matter. They're perfectly functional as a "backup melee attacks" feature guy. They're just not designed, quite rightly, to be primary melee guys.
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2018-11-30, 10:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2014
Re: Warlock the single class
Yeah, this.
Like the Beastmaster, people expect too much out of the Blade Pact. The other pacts don't get a whole lot. 3 cantrips or an upgraded familiar isn't the height of power.
A huge factor of why people think Blade Pact is under powered on here is that the playstyle of most people on this board seems to be to avoid engaging ranged characters in melee. If enemies never walk up to the ranged characters in the party then of course they don't need a melee back up (or armour for that matter).
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2018-12-28, 03:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2018
Re: Warlock the single class
So a martial warlock that isnt a hexblade isnt worth it? Im looking for a roguish angle on a warlock without dipping.
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2018-12-28, 03:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2018
Re: Warlock the single class
Pact of the blade fey lock isn’t awful. It plays perfectly decently and is a good warlock option (i.e. as long as you are fine with the short rest, low spell count etc. playstyle, you won’t feel like you aren’t getting what you wanted out of the class). I’d rate it a B+.
Thing is, the hexblade is A++, so if you are optimising the feylock is the ‘worse’ choice.
So it’s a question which you’ll find more fun. If you have a character in mind and hexblade doesn’t fit, you aren’t hurting yourself by going with the more thematic option. If you think you want raw power, hexblade will always taunt you with its existence.Have fun, stay sane, enjoy the madness.
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2018-12-28, 04:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2018
Re: Warlock the single class
Last edited by KyleG; 2018-12-28 at 04:04 PM.
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2018-12-28, 04:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2014
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2018-12-28, 04:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2016
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- The Lakes
Re: Warlock the single class
This is discussion is really quite informative. Been poking around at a warlock idea.
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2018-12-28, 04:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2018
Re: Warlock the single class
Have fun, stay sane, enjoy the madness.
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2018-12-29, 01:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
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Re: Warlock the single class
Martial 'Locks That aren't hexblades existed for 3 years before Xany came out, so something must have been going on. You just have to use more than one stat. Build like a Paladin or Ranger - casting stat secondary.
Roguish? You don't want the medium armor. Bladelock makes you proficient in your pact blade, probably a rapier. Now, some of the Hexblade features fit better to the roguish reliance on luck, but that curtails the fun of a fey-aligned casting sword guy. Be Kvothe.
Skip EB, get advanced weapon to make bows, and throw in Eldritch Smite for a sneak attack lite. Hex is probably going to be a necessary, but don't sweat dropping it for a little invisibility.
Oh, and mask of many faces + friends is good for all sorts of hijinks.
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2018-12-29, 06:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2018
Re: Warlock the single class
So can some cha be sacrificed if one goes for an archfey bladelock? im sitting on 16 cha (incl.+2 racial) but im light on con at 12. dex is at 15 (incl. +1 racial). Cha to 14 woulg give me 3 more pts to spend which i could give to con getting that to 14.
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2018-12-29, 10:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2018
Re: Warlock the single class
It almost feels like the designers started to go in a unique direction with Warlocks (invocations, pact features etc.) but chickened out and decided to make them just an unusual caster class. I think Warlocks should’ve been based around invocations, with maybe twice as many as they have now, and pact features, with no actual spell slots. And make Eldritch Blast a class feature, that gets better with Warlock levels only. That would’ve allowed people to mix and match their Warlock’s abilities to create some unique characters. I would’ve liked to have seen Rangers built along the same lines, rather than being half-casters.
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2018-12-29, 02:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2018
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2018-12-29, 02:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2016
Re: Warlock the single class
I'm not super sold on this to be honest. Yes they get a whole lot at level 1 and warlock is one of the potentially more attractive dips anyway but...I've seen a hexblade in play once (as a multiclass) and they were honestly wholly unremarkable. Seemed to be well within the normal power curve expectations.
I've never thought they were that OP as a single class. I will concede they're probably the most powerful patron but even then I don't think its by as much as people like to claim.
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2018-12-29, 03:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2014
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- Los Angeles
Re: Warlock the single class
Here's a single class warlock build folks seem to like. Very much a jack of all trades sort.
Originally Posted by LudicSavantLast edited by LudicSavant; 2018-12-29 at 03:36 PM.
Originally Posted by ProsecutorGodot
Nerull | Wee Jas | Olidammara | Erythnul | Hextor | Corellon Larethian | Lolth | The Deep Ones
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2018-12-29, 07:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2018
Re: Warlock the single class
Problem is that I want to keep 14 in intelligence despite it not being optimal as it plays to this character. Which means I think I will have to sacrifice either con or dex or a smaller value of both.
So im thinking a bladelock/hexblade maybe not how I need to play this character. Maybe I need to play him with the whole mask of many faces and then surprise or hide in the shadows of my targets room and then kill them quickly with magic? (not thinking past level 10 at this stage). Proper combat is almost a secondary part of this build.
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2018-12-31, 05:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2011
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- Lakeland, FL
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Re: Warlock the single class
Warlocks are an interesting class that is worth playing. I would agree that Hexblade armor should have been moved to Blade Pact.
My criticism of the Warlock class would be that people often think it's going to be something it isnt. Bladepact made a poor Gish without Hexblade without multiclassing. People could Gish before Hexblade with a dip in another class or with enormous investment of feats for armor and invocations but felt bad because they could do almost as much damage or more with Eldritch Blast, so the investment felt wrong.
Next criticism would be that Warlocks are front loaded and tend to be too powerful as a dip. Hexblade made this worse. I wonder if this was done for fluff reasons, Patrons attracting characters with up front power but diminishing the investment over time...
Conversely, the higher levels (levell 12+) arent balanced well. As the Mystic Arcanum spell list is very limited, especially considering the Warlock gets one spell of each higher level known. I seriously wonder if the Mystic Arcanums would be broken if Warlock spells 6-9 could be chosen off any list. Because of this I often like playing Warlock 11/X 9 because I get three 5th level slots per short rest and then half another class. The remaining 9 levels of Warlock get much less interesting and dont seem to balance out against other full casters. More high level invocations could help thos out.
I am glad XGtE printed more invocations. As they print more, Warlocks will flesh out better. These tend to balance out the lack of lower level spell slots. Because of there at will always on characteristics these do heavy lifting. They are good to really give style to characters.
As a psuedo full caster. It's a neat package. It's not wholly a full caster it is different but that isnt a bad thing. And it's pretty close to a full caster and magic oriented. Warlocks are not broken. They are balanced and as someone wrote, even the Hexblade Patron isnt over powered, even if the dip is overpowered.
To some up my critique, just know what a Warlock is and isnt before getting in and the class is too front loaded and a little under powered level 12 plus.
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2018-12-31, 06:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
Re: Warlock the single class
Even with lots of short rests, there’s a significant downside to warlock casting.
A wizard can carefully manage their resources through the day, casting little in the easy encounters, saving their strength for the two or three (or whatever) more difficult ones.
You have much more limited capacity to do that on a warlock.
Don’t get me wrong, I like warlocks, but their casting is, in my experience, strictly less capable of scaling as needed to match the variable challenges that characters may face.
Edit: I should flag that I’ve not played over level 15, and my experience is limited to that pointLast edited by Spiritchaser; 2018-12-31 at 06:55 AM.
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2019-01-08, 09:49 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2019
Re: Warlock the single class
Warlocks are my favorite class to play. I've never been dissapointed at any level of play. I can't think of anything more fun than an intelligent familiar, at any level.
My personal favorites are the Great Old One, telepathy from an invisible familiar is great for shenanigans. I had a lot of fun with a CON heavy Fiend/Blade. Personally I can't have fun multi/maxing. Nobody wants to watch you role 8 EB rolls every turn.Last edited by Warlush; 2019-01-08 at 09:58 AM.