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2012-08-16, 12:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: D&D 5th Edition: the fifth edition of the discussion thread
I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums.
I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that. -- ChubbyRain
Current Design Project: Legacy, a game of masters and apprentices for two players and a GM.
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2012-08-16, 12:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: D&D 5th Edition: the fifth edition of the discussion thread
If that's the case, then they should just auto-succeed the check, and in fact, the DM shouldn't make the PC roll a check at all, if it's so far beneath them. That kind of situation isn't really what the chart is for.
If a 15th level rogue is cavorting around some dump of the town picking locks, why waste time making them roll at all? Doesn't seem like the kind of thing we need a system for.
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2012-08-16, 12:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2012
Re: D&D 5th Edition: the fifth edition of the discussion thread
Sure it does, unless you're using it in a bizarre way.
That Tavern Lock in Hommlett is still a Moderate DC for a 1st-level character. Your epic-tier rogue can pick it with a chicken leg or a firm knock at that point.
The Next DC chart is just the 4e DC chart with the "level-appropriate" treadmill removed. Bounded accuracy and all that. It's mostly good for the same stuff, only now your fighter with 8 dex can pick locks pretty well because your DC range needs to stay exceptionally narrow to account for constrained bonus ranges.
-O
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2012-08-16, 01:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2008
Re: D&D 5th Edition: the fifth edition of the discussion thread
Actually, the fighter with 8 dex can't pick locks at all, because you're flat-out unable to pick locks unless you have the required training and tools.
5e Homebrew: Death Knight (Class), Kensai (Monk Subclass)Excellent avatar by Elder Tsofu.
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2012-08-16, 02:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: D&D 5th Edition: the fifth edition of the discussion thread
One of my biggest problems with 4e was the number scaling. When every number scales up at the same rate, there effectively becomes no point in the numbers increasing by level at all. Next seems to get this. Your skills don't get better automatically with levels, and thus neither do DC's, which has the added effect of making DC's easier to calculate and make any bonuses you do get feel more meaningful.
The numbers that do go up with level, such as the attack bonus and spell save DC, go up at different rates for different classes. As time goes on the fighter gets better and better at fighting, while the wizard becomes more and more reliant on their magical abilities."Sometimes, we’re heroes. Sometimes, we shoot other people right in the face for money."
-Shadowrun 4e, Runner's Companion
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2012-08-16, 06:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2009
Re: D&D 5th Edition: the fifth edition of the discussion thread
We should not have to waste ability slots on things like push/prone, or disarm, or other basic combat maneuvers. In earlier editions of the game these were things anyone could attempt to do. Yet now the Fighter has to waste ability slots to get it.
Incidentally, I have to apologise for my tone in the last post, I think I was a bit to personal and accusatory and I shouldn't have been.Last edited by 1337 b4k4; 2012-08-16 at 06:44 AM.
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2012-08-16, 06:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-08-16, 06:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: D&D 5th Edition: the fifth edition of the discussion thread
You can use any forced-movement at will plus the feat Polearm Momentum.
So anyway. First thoughts on the new playtest is that there are way too many knowledge skills, and they've still left out Perform and Repair. Boo. Channel Divinity is now just another healing spell and seems to be there only because they need some mechanic with that name. I like the new fighter mechanic, as well as grouping the feats in 'themes' to avoid choice paralysis. I don't like how a character gets only three skills in a fairly arbitrary grouping.
My main issues with the first playtest haven't been solved (i.e. that ability and skill modifiers are too low, making the resolution system too random; and that double (dis)advantage doesn't do anything; and that I don't like the hit dice mechanic).
Overall verdict is lacklustre. It looks decent enough, but it's still basically 3E with some tweaks, and I don't see why I should learn this instead of existing systems like 2E/3E/PF.Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.
"I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
Crystal Shard Studios - Freeware games designed by Kurald and others!
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2012-08-16, 08:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2012
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2012-08-16, 09:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2012
Re: D&D 5th Edition: the fifth edition of the discussion thread
Yep. Knockdown Assault. It does very low damage, but it can be used on a charge. It makes a pretty good 3rd At-Will for a Human.
That's just a reliable, easy way to do it though. You can always improvise something with the DM if you didn't take the power. A warlord in my game last night pole-vaulted over a pile of dead elves to knock a defiler prone.
Is that in the playtest? It looks to me like training just gives you a +3 to the check.
-OLast edited by obryn; 2012-08-16 at 09:05 AM.
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2012-08-16, 09:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: D&D 5th Edition: the fifth edition of the discussion thread
Push, Prone, Disarm, and basically all of the other maneuvers that were available for free for anyone to use in 3.5 are things that should continue to be free. Now if like in 3.5, they require giving up basic weapon damage to use that way, I could see having a single CS ability that lets you use those basic maneuvers by spending a CS die in place of your weapon damage. So the Fighter is better at doing those things, but it definitely isn't worth multiple different abilities. 4e's restrictive power list was one of my complaints about the system, so I won't even bother trying to look up if it was possible in 4e.
I want to see abilities inflicting actual status effects on the target, comparable to spells of a level or two lower. I want to see cleave as an ability where you give up your die to attack two different enemies, rather than gambling when you try to use it. Later on I want to see things like Whirlwind Attack, or charge down a line and attack everyone within your reach on the way. I want to see the Fighter with the ability to spend dice for extra reactions so he can do more of his defendery-type stuff, because 1/round is pathetic. I'd like to see some self buffing. Both Cleric and Wizard can give themselves half cover with a spell, just as an example.
I want to see the Fighter getting utility abilities, stuff that is helpful out of combat as well as in it. As is the only way for a Fighter to have utility is go dex based and take the thief theme for those dex based thief skills. I I want to see extra mobility options, because mobility is extremely important to a melee character. I would even enjoy seeing the Fighter get some group buffing. The problem with these two things is they step on the toes of the Rogue and Warlord respectively.
But anyway, the point is that I want a much wider breadth of powers. Some of the abilities are okay. Shift is pretty decent mobility, I would have been happier seeing a couple more abilities along those lines. Jab/Snap Shot are cool, and open up some interesting possibilities, but should have been a single ability. I wouldn't have minded seeing Glancing blow rolled into that same ability as well (ie let you make a jab attempt if even if you make an attack and miss, so it's not quite auto damage but gives a much better odds of landing something each round). Having those three as separate abilities is horrible, because it's taking a pretty narrow concept and splitting it up into a bunch of weak abilities... in a system where you have very limited options.
Deadly Strike and Parry aren't horrible, but they are the default options that every fighter gets, and act as the fallback when other maneuvers aren't better. To me a Fighter getting those is equivalent to a Wizard getting cantrips, which is why I left both those and the cantrips out of the comparisons of abilities.
Protect, as mentioned before is a nice ability, some protection of allies going on, but requiring a reaction means it's competing against the ability to attack an enemy, the ability to impose disadvantage on an enemy attack, and the ability to stop an enemy from moving completely. And honestly out of those 4 options, blocking 1d8 damage is probably the weakest use of the reaction.
tl;dr: Maneuver selection in the packet is extremely limited, and the options range from really limited, to worse than a feat, to just terrible in their own right. In addition, the scope of powers provided is extremely limited, to the point where as a 5e fighter, I have fewer options available than a 3.5e Fighter. Given the 3.5 Fighter's history of being both weak and boring in terms of choices available, this is not a favorable comparison when we were told CS would be giving the Fighter more capability.
Incidentally, I have to apologise for my tone in the last post, I think I was a bit to personal and accusatory and I shouldn't have been.If my text is blue, I'm being sarcastic.But you already knew that, right?
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2012-08-16, 09:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2009
Re: D&D 5th Edition: the fifth edition of the discussion thread
You can use any forced-movement at will plus the feat Polearm Momentum.
First thoughts on the new playtest is that there are way too many knowledge skills, and they've still left out Perform and Repair. Boo.
I don't like how a character gets only three skills in a fairly arbitrary grouping.
You can always improvise something with the DM if you didn't take the power. A warlord in my game last night pole-vaulted over a pile of dead elves to knock a defiler prone.
Maneuver selection in the packet is extremely limited, and the options range from really limited, to worse than a feat, to just terrible in their own right. In addition, the scope of powers provided is extremely limited, to the point where as a 5e fighter, I have fewer options available than a 3.5e Fighter.
What would you think of the following:
In addition to a few more status inducing powers, and fixing the stupidity that is glancing blow and a few of the others, leave most of the powers relatively low powered as they are. In exchange, increase the number of dice available with a chart sort of like the wizard spell chart, but instead of spell levels, dice sizes (d4, d6, d8 etc), with a progression of maybe adding 1 die per level, and one size per 3-5 levels. Additionally, each ability has a "powered up" version of the ability that can be used, but such usage burns any CS dice you use until a long rest a la the vancian spells.
Additionally, allow fighters to spend their CS dice to take additional reactions at the cost of one die per additional reaction (in addition to the die spent on the ability).Last edited by 1337 b4k4; 2012-08-16 at 09:37 AM.
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2012-08-16, 09:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: D&D 5th Edition: the fifth edition of the discussion thread
Page 50, so we need a new thread.
I made itLead Designer for Oracle Hunter GamesToday a Blog, Tomorrow a Business!
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Elflad
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2012-08-16, 01:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: D&D 5th Edition: the fifth edition of the discussion thread
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2012-08-16, 02:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: D&D 5th Edition: the fifth edition of the discussion thread
NaNoWriMo Beat Me
Red and the Phasmavore by LCP
Spoiler: Character Sheets
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2012-08-19, 11:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2008
Re: D&D 5th Edition: the fifth edition of the discussion thread
Just rocked the latest playtest.
Sorcerers seem pretty op, at least so far as combat goes. Heavy armour + martial weapons + casting + good melee + range. They can do it all except utility. Nothing could hit my 19 AC (with the Shield spell) Sorcalops as he destroyed everything at range and in melee with Ray of Frost and Shocking Grasp, never getting hit once.