LGBTAI+ Questions and Discussion thread II: Make It Double

[-Sentinel-]

Hi everyone,

I can't help but notice that trans women have quite a bit more visibility in the news, pop culture, etc. than trans men. I've come to wonder if this reflects a demographic gap between the two groups (that is, trans women being simply more numerous than trans men). Are there any reliable stats on this?

I'm just curious...

[golentan]

Hi everyone,

I can't help but notice that trans women have quite a bit more visibility in the news, pop culture, etc. than trans men. I've come to wonder if this reflects a demographic gap between the two groups (that is, trans women being simply more numerous than trans men). Are there any reliable stats on this?

I'm just curious...

I don't have accurate stats unfortunately. The consensus is that there are about 3 times as many trans women as trans men, but there's also a study that disputes both the numbers used to arrive at that figure because it's self reporting to mental health professionals. A friend of mine suggested that more trans men are stealth at one point: When someone grows facial hair and doesn't have visible breasts, having a slightly more feminine face or body shape doesn't cause people to judge the same way as a woman with a strong jaw line or a little bit of stubble. Weird double standards are weird like that. But anyway, rather than face the judgement by coming out, it's easier and less likely to get you misgendered by new people to just be 100% male in the eyes of everyone you meet, and so trans men have lower visibility for their numbers.

[Coidzor]

Hi everyone,

I can't help but notice that trans women have quite a bit more visibility in the news, pop culture, etc. than trans men. I've come to wonder if this reflects a demographic gap between the two groups (that is, trans women being simply more numerous than trans men). Are there any reliable stats on this?

I'm just curious...

Passing is easier in many ways, which is going to effect the visibility of trans men vs. trans women. People are trained to believe that if there's anything masculine with a woman's face, it's a defect that's wrong with them; whereas if there's anything feminine about a man's face, that's androgyny, and that's actually kinda hot to a lot of women and men who are into men.

People are more understanding of why a FAAB person would want the privileges and status of being deemed male in social settings but are less understanding of why a MAAB person would want to set their privilege on fire and be discriminated against worse than a cis woman. Which just leads deeper and deeper into a discussion of transmisogyny and why y'all need non-trans-exclusionary feminisms.

Straight cis men are more invested in narratives warning to beware of trans women even as they're fetishized into an entire genre of pornography, whereas there's not really the same cultural fear amongst gay cis men of ending up with a trans man, even if there are gay men who are just as transphobic as their straight peers.

[golentan]

Passing is easier in many ways, which is going to effect the visibility of trans men vs. trans women. People are trained to believe that if there's anything masculine with a woman's face, it's a defect that's wrong with them; whereas if there's anything feminine about a man's face, that's androgyny, and that's actually kinda hot to a lot of women and men who are into men.

Oh goodness, yes. Give me a fox faced smooth chinned or goateed cute man and I just wanna... well, I can't really say what I wanna do. Speak french as they stroke my hair.

I've never met someone I know to be a trans man without immediately finding them tremendously physically attractive.

[Jeff the Green]

One factor is probably that transwomen are more transgressive than transmen. Women have dressed as men to go to war and get an education. It's normal for a woman to want to be a man because we're so awesome, but men who want to be women are perverts.

[LaZodiac]

It's also the newest type, so there aren't very many examples of Fairy Pokémon yet.

Also, only two 6th-gen Pokémon have any sexual dimorphism, and both exhibit very overt gender differences, so I'm gonna conclude that Game Freak was feeling a bit lazy about drawing the new Pokémon designs.

Or it could be that they where working with new models and wanted to make sure they could make it look good before making variations on the pokemon. That's the first time they where working with 3D models for that system, and EVERY pokemon was getting remade to fit the standards of today's graphics (no more Pokemon Stadium N64 level models) and that's why they didn't make a bunch of gender differences.

Trust me, I'd love to see gender differences in pokemon more often. But it's not because they're lazy. Torchic's gender difference (before it was removed due to being pointless) was a single pixel on it's tail butt. Now THAT'S pretty lazy. Though again to be fair it's a starter pokemon so for publicities sake having it vary wildly could cause issues with marketing.

One final thing before I fly away into lurk mode again. The gender differences for Pyroar are really big, and the gender difference for Meowstic essentially makes TWO DIFFERENT POKEMON. That's the opposite of lazy

[Skeppio]

Or it could be that they where working with new models and wanted to make sure they could make it look good before making variations on the pokemon. That's the first time they where working with 3D models for that system, and EVERY pokemon was getting remade to fit the standards of today's graphics (no more Pokemon Stadium N64 level models) and that's why they didn't make a bunch of gender differences.

Trust me, I'd love to see gender differences in pokemon more often. But it's not because they're lazy. Torchic's gender difference (before it was removed due to being pointless) was a single pixel on it's tail butt. Now THAT'S pretty lazy. Though again to be fair it's a starter pokemon so for publicities sake having it vary wildly could cause issues with marketing.

One final thing before I fly away into lurk mode again. The gender differences for Pyroar are really big, and the gender difference for Meowstic essentially makes TWO DIFFERENT POKEMON. That's the opposite of lazy

Agreed. There's 721 Pokemon currently, including a couple unreleased legendaries, and that's not even getting into the mega evolutions, alternate forms, etc. It's a lot of work. @_@
Though it was pretty cool how Meowstic has different movesets by gender, that's a pretty big change.
Also sorry to indirectly make you pop in here. ._.

To keep things tangently related, do other people like Gardevoir/Mega Gardevoir? Specifically, the part where it wears a neat ballgown/wedding dress getup regardless of gender? I find it really cool. :3

[Serpentine]

I've never met someone I know to be a trans man without immediately finding them tremendously physically attractive.

Me too <.<

Re. visibility of trans men: I think there's also the historical tendency to treat them as women, and historically there's a lot less interest in women's health and similar things. So I think the reasons, in addition to all the others mentioned, are the same ones that make almost all research on homosexuality focus on gay men rather than lesbians.

[Shadowscale]

Agreed. There's 721 Pokemon currently, including a couple unreleased legendaries, and that's not even getting into the mega evolutions, alternate forms, etc. It's a lot of work. @_@
Though it was pretty cool how Meowstic has different movesets by gender, that's a pretty big change.
Also sorry to indirectly make you pop in here. ._.

To keep things tangently related, do other people like Gardevoir/Mega Gardevoir? Specifically, the part where it wears a neat ballgown/wedding dress getup regardless of gender? I find it really cool. :3

I like that about gardevoir too, but the inverse issue is that the male only Gallade was supossed to be the expressed male of the two with male gardevoirs really just being an awkward leftover of things. I want female gallades.

[noparlpf]

I dunno, if they can make new 3D models for 650 older Pokémon and include all of the previously-existing gender differences, how much harder could it be to make half a dozen of the 70 new Pokémon have minor gender differences?

There are just a couple of aspects of 6th gen that feel unnecessarily rushed to me. So few new Pokémon and no postgame to speak of in XY, and then the numerous steps back (both from Emerald and from XY) they made in ORAS...

[Coidzor]

I dunno, if they can make new 3D models for 650 older Pokémon and include all of the previously-existing gender differences, how much harder could it be to make half a dozen of the 70 new Pokémon have minor gender differences?

There are just a couple of aspects of 6th gen that feel unnecessarily rushed to me. So few new Pokémon and no postgame to speak of in XY, and then the numerous steps back (both from Emerald and from XY) they made in ORAS...

Well, you know, Triple A Gaming and all that jazz.

[LaZodiac]

I like that about gardevoir too, but the inverse issue is that the male only Gallade was supossed to be the expressed male of the two with male gardevoirs really just being an awkward leftover of things. I want female gallades.

Why, if I may ask? The basic idea to me is that evolution stones are like mutation rocks. All Kirlia naturally become Gardevoir, but male ones can be mutated into Gallade. The reason why it's a stone evolution mechanically is because it's too awkward to have it be just a divergent evolution of Kirlia in general.

I dunno, if they can make new 3D models for 650 older Pokémon and include all of the previously-existing gender differences, how much harder could it be to make half a dozen of the 70 new Pokémon have minor gender differences?

There are just a couple of aspects of 6th gen that feel unnecessarily rushed to me. So few new Pokémon and no postgame to speak of in XY, and then the numerous steps back (both from Emerald and from XY) they made in ORAS...

Keep in mind there's also the Mega Evolutions, and all the other high quality stuff that DID happen. They likely just didn't have the time or power to do so.

What did they step back from in ORAS? There's no character customization but that's because ORAS is a remake using modern standards, not a sequel game. They wanted it to feel more true to the originals. And it's clear from the Delta Episode that they have more plans for it. But I digress, this is getting off topic.

[Heliomance]

My favorite bird is a character from a book who falls in love with a human who she's doing research on...

Would that be the Last Legionary series, by any chance?


Also, new headcanon: The Kirlia line, regardless of physical sex, have a female gender identity by default. Gallades are those of them that were dissatisfied with that, and decided to transition. Yup, every Gallade is FtM!

[golentan]

Would that be the Last Legionary series, by any chance?


Also, new headcanon: The Kirlia line, regardless of physical sex, have a female gender identity by default. Gallades are those of them that were dissatisfied with that, and decided to transition. Yup, every Gallade is FtM!

Nope. The Damned trilogy.

[LaZodiac]

Would that be the Last Legionary series, by any chance?


Also, new headcanon: The Kirlia line, regardless of physical sex, have a female gender identity by default. Gallades are those of them that were dissatisfied with that, and decided to transition. Yup, every Gallade is FtM!

That does make some degree of sense, since stone evolution is a mutation and "not natural" for lack of a better term.

Is it bad that I thought Golentan might of been refering to Hatoful Boyfriend?

[golentan]

That does make some degree of sense, since stone evolution is a mutation and "not natural" for lack of a better term.

Is it bad that I thought Golentan might of been refering to Hatoful Boyfriend?

It's not bad. I've never played Hatoful Boyfriend though. Sounds too close to Hateful for me.

[LaZodiac]

It's not bad. I've never played Hatoful Boyfriend though. Sounds too close to Hateful for me.

Surprise, you've discovered the secret.

In all seriousness, Hatoful Boyfriend is actually a lot better then "It's a pidgeon dating sim" gives it credit. Give it a chance when you've the time.

[golentan]

Surprise, you've discovered the secret.

In all seriousness, Hatoful Boyfriend is actually a lot better then "It's a pidgeon dating sim" gives it credit. Give it a chance when you've the time.

Dating sims aren't really my thing, even with all the crazy stuff I know is in there. Perhaps especially so.

[Coidzor]

Dating sims aren't really my thing, even with all the crazy stuff I know is in there. Perhaps especially so.

You've never wanted to date a cake-turned-person before?

A tad self-indulgent, sure, but that's escapism, y'know?

[golentan]

You've never wanted to date a cake-turned-person before?

A tad self-indulgent, sure, but that's escapism, y'know?

Not really, no.

[Coidzor]

Not really, no.

Well, I can't say I really understand the full scope of the humor inherent in the system, but they have their moments.

[golentan]

Well, I can't say I really understand the full scope of the humor inherent in the system, but they have their moments.

I just don't want to have long romantic conversations or any sort of drama with my computer, okay? It knows what kind of porn I watch. I don't want to mess that up by allowing it to judge any of my choices in romance.

[SiuiS]

That is legitimately the single best argument against dating sims I've ever heard.

[Anarion]

I just don't want to have long romantic conversations or any sort of drama with my computer, okay? It knows what kind of porn I watch. I don't want to mess that up by allowing it to judge any of my choices in romance.

That is legitimately the single best argument against dating sims I've ever heard.

Hmm, I don't see how I could ever argue with my computer. Google search just...completes me.



Thank you, thank you, I'm here all week.

[SowZ]

I just don't want to have long romantic conversations or any sort of drama with my computer, okay? It knows what kind of porn I watch. I don't want to mess that up by allowing it to judge any of my choices in romance.

Really, it's best that our computers know as few of our weakness' as possible. We are already at a severe disadvantage.

[golentan]

Really, it's best that our computers know as few of our weakness' as possible. We are already at a severe disadvantage.

Oh, I'm all in favor of the rise of the machines. I just don't want them to both be my friends and be looking over my shoulder with other stuff. Any computer I date will have to be a different one from the one I use recreationally, and be at least somewhat independently mobile.

[LaZodiac]

Then watch someone else suffer tordid love afairs with affluent pidgeon royalty. Trust me, Hatoful is actually kind of great.

Though yes that is a fantastic reason as to not do it.

[SowZ]

Oh, I'm all in favor of the rise of the machines. I just don't want them to both be my friends and be looking over my shoulder with other stuff. Any computer I date will have to be a different one from the one I use recreationally, and be at least somewhat independently mobile.

It may get jealous about your cyber-infidelity.

[golentan]

It may get jealous about your cyber-infidelity.

Nah. We can watch porn together. Just not on him/her/it.

[Heliomance]

I just don't want to have long romantic conversations or any sort of drama with my computer, okay? It knows what kind of porn I watch. I don't want to mess that up by allowing it to judge any of my choices in romance.

Sigged so hard.