Results 1 to 30 of 72
-
2017-03-15, 11:13 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
- Location
- Atlanta, Georgia
- Gender
Retiering the classes (PF): Sorcerer, Oracle, Shaman, Arcanist, Psychic
OK, lets do this in a way that matters. I'm breaking my rule and jumping Eggynack in his tiering thread, although Sorcerer is the only direct comparison. And I do think a touch of the druid offshoot discussion may be relevant to Shaman.
Here we are tiering PF versions of classes. These look like the rest of the 9 casters. If I'm missing anyone, I'll add them in the half caster thread.
As discussed before, voting is open. Refer to the base thread if you need to.Last edited by Gnaeus; 2017-03-15 at 11:39 AM.
-
2017-03-15, 11:32 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
- Location
- Atlanta, Georgia
- Gender
Re: Retiering the classes (PF): Sorcerer, Oracle, Shaman, Arcanist, Psychic
My Votes:
Sorcerer T1. I think the edition changes are enough to break the tier boundary. Specifically, crafting feats are now available, a lot more spells known per level if you include favored class, bonus feats and actual class features all help the sorcerer in the comparisons. Also, Paragon Surge is there if needed.
Oracle T1. (Although bottom). Exactly the same analysis as sorcerer. If you took the favored soul, made it SAD, almost doubled its spells known and let it convert to cures, added 6 powerful scaling spell likes and paragon surge, you get the oracle.
Shaman. T1 (higher than sorcerer or oracle) It says its a Oracle/Witch hybrid but feels more like Druid/Witch to me. Wandering spirit gives a revolving choice of spells. Prepared caster with what feels like a 9th level list, + hexes, and the hexes can be changed regularly. I see nothing bad here.
Arcanist. T1. I think Sorc and Wizard are both T1, so little doubt in my mind here.
Psychic T2. Certainly the one I'm most dubious about. Maybe T1. They have some abilities that let them change their spells, and what looks like a T1 list, but I don't see a FCB like sorcerers add to spells known, and they are MAD. I may change my vote here. I'll watch the discussion closely.
-
2017-03-15, 12:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
- Location
- Aachen, Germany
- Gender
Re: Retiering the classes (PF): Sorcerer, Oracle, Shaman, Arcanist, Psychic
I will answer with my "insights" or objections directly.
Thruthfully... I am confused. I think that Bloodlines and FCB really push the sorcerer really strong. But always assumed you have so many spells to choose from that it makes it just unfeasible justify the tier rise... apparently I am wrong thanks to Paragon Surge (only for Half Elves) and the Humans FCB makes nearly every race safe for Half-Elves the inferior choice unless specific build goals are met.
Oracle T1. (Although bottom). Exactly the same analysis as sorcerer. If you took the favored soul, made it SAD, almost doubled its spells known and let it convert to cures, added 6 powerful scaling spell likes and paragon surge, you get the oracle.
Shaman. T1 (higher than sorcerer or oracle) It says its a Oracle/Witch hybrid but feels more like Druid/Witch to me. Wandering spirit gives a revolving choice of spells. Prepared caster with what feels like a 9th level list, + hexes, and the hexes can be changed regularly. I see nothing bad here.
Arcanist. T1. I think Sorc and Wizard are both T1, so little doubt in my mind here.
Psychic T2. Certainly the one I'm most dubious about. Maybe T1. They have some abilities that let them change their spells, and what looks like a T1 list, but I don't see a FCB like sorcerers add to spells known, and they are MAD. I may change my vote here. I'll watch the discussion closely.Have a nice Day,
Krazzman
-
2017-03-15, 03:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
- Location
- Here.
Re: Retiering the classes (PF): Sorcerer, Oracle, Shaman, Arcanist, Psychic
Definite T1:
Arcanist: Pretty much a prepared caster. Can grab a niche spell in one round rather than the minimum 1 minute that fast study requires. Full wizard list. The only major issue is delayed progression, but that's not going to change any tiers.
Shaman: The base shaman list is all battlefield control with some utility, which I feel is too weak to get into T1 by itself. However, with the FCB to grab cleric spells, flexible wandering spirit spells, and the Lore spirit hex that gives a bunch of wizard spells on demand (changeable every day!) as a wandering spirit, Shaman makes T1 under the same principle that a quadrupled-up Paragon Surge once made Oracle and Sorcerer T1. Hexes and spirit abilities aren't even needed for the tier consideration.
Arguably T1:
Sorcerer: Sorcerers got some major buffs in Pathfinder between bloodlines, the human FCB, paragon surge, and some new Paizo spells. The main question I ask of sorcerer isn't whether he can out-versatile the wizard, but whether he can out-versatile lower T1 classes like Cleric or Druid or Witch. And even with a limited spells known, I think a sorcerer can diversify enough that he can offer comparable utility when compared to the divine casters.
Oracle with Paragon Surge: Even with the nerfed Paragon Surge, I think a human FCB oracle who can cast just one floating spell a day can offer enough utility to belong to this tier.
T2:
Oracle without Paragon Surge: 7 spells per level off the cleric list still isn't enough, I think - especially with most of them acquired much later than a cleric can.
I don't have enough experience with the Psychic to really say anything about its tier.
EDIT: Changed all mention of ACF to FCB. Sorry.Last edited by Felyndiira; 2017-03-16 at 01:05 PM.
-
2017-03-15, 04:18 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2015
- Location
- Lima, Perú
- Gender
Re: Retiering the classes (PF): Sorcerer, Oracle, Shaman, Arcanist, Psychic
Alright
Sorcerer: Tier 2. While there's theoretical access to almost the entire relevant spell list by later levels if you spend a lot of money into PoSKs, you are basically burning your entire WBL into it while the Wizard has all the spells and rods and wands and scrolls on top of that. False/Razmiran Priest Archetype makes the Tier 1 list, though, thanks to False Channeling allowing to use cleric spells through the sorc's spell slots.
Oracle: Tier 2, for the same reasons. Exceptions: Lore Oracle gets similarly the ability to cast wizard spells, if burning them off the spellbook, plus other features, and Lunar Oracle gets druid stuff to further empower his abilities, both tier 1.
Shaman: Tier 1, due to prepared caster stuff.
Arcanist: Yeah, Tier 1. Exploits are incredibly powerful, and the class feels like it gets the best of both wizard and sorcerer to play around with.
Similarly, I'll abstain from rating the Psychic due to not much experience with the class, but methinks it should lean more towards Tier 1 than Tier 2.
-
2017-03-16, 01:22 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: Retiering the classes (PF): Sorcerer, Oracle, Shaman, Arcanist, Psychic
Arcanist = 0. It's stronger than either the sorcerer or the wizard. It can do all the nasty tricks from the best spell list in the books, gets the best of both worlds from spontaneous and prepared casting, and can trivially get a boost to its save DCs when needed. This is basically Paizo's do-everything class.
Sorcerer = 1. Stronger than its 3E counterpart, some of the bloodlines get powerful extra features, and it's pretty easy to increase the amount of spells known. It also has enough printed alternative class options that you can trade away bloodline features you don't like, can combine bloodlines, and get a strong familiar (with its own archetype) right out of the book.
Shaman = 1. Although it feels differently in play, in terms of building or optimizing one it's close enough to the Cleric that it shares its tier.
Oracle = 2. Sure, it's conceptually the same as the sorcerer, but the arcane spell list remains much better (although the divine list has its fair share of uber-spells as well). Traditionally a full-list spont-caster is T2, and the oracle sticks with that.
Psychic = 2. Basically the same as the oracle, a spontaneous caster with a wide list but not as earth-shattering as the boosted sorcerer.Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.
"I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
Crystal Shard Studios - Freeware games designed by Kurald and others!
-
2017-03-16, 05:19 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2015
Re: Retiering the classes (PF): Sorcerer, Oracle, Shaman, Arcanist, Psychic
Avatar made by Mehangel - "Neigh?"
-
2017-03-16, 09:59 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Gender
Re: Retiering the classes (PF): Sorcerer, Oracle, Shaman, Arcanist, Psychic
Arcanist = T1, self-explanatory.
Shaman = T1, particularly with Lore and Wandering Hex.
Sorcerer = T2. They are definitely much closer to T1 in PF, but I feel the fact that their techniques don't apply to highest spell level, are race-gated, or are prohibitively expensive, limit their arsenal - and it is breadth of arsenal that delineates these two tiers.
Oracle = T2, same reason as above but even moreso because for divine casters, the incredibly niche can become even more necessary.
Psychic = T2, same as Sorcerer. However, Amnesiac Psychic can hit T1.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
-
2017-03-16, 01:50 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
Re: Retiering the classes (PF): Sorcerer, Oracle, Shaman, Arcanist, Psychic
Despite my ruminations on another thread, I now look at the correlation between Tier-1 and Tier-2 as follows;
A Tier-1 class can be in the hands of a moron for several levels, but still be put right to absolute power by someone with little effort. Example; even if someone intentionally choose poor feats and spells, a Wizard, Cleric, Druid, Witch can spend a reasonable amount of gold to get the spells and items necessary to solve tomorrow's problems.
A Tier-2 class cannot be so saved without a lot more effort. I haven't defined "a lot", though.
HOWEVER, ours is not a game of random or stupid. While I don't think that taking the single "best" build of a class allows it to be listed among a high tier, I do think that reasonable optimization should be taken into account. As such, my views are based on what I think a person who knows the rules and is not intentionally nerfing his/her own character can build.
Arcanist - Tier 1
Oracle - Low Tier 1
Psychic - Tier 2 (unless I'm misreading the class)
Shaman - Tier 1
Sorcerer - Tier 1
Again, this is based on reasonable optimization but not min/max. It's hard to justify my position, though, when I just know Oracles and Sorcerers generally find themselves in niches from which they can never escape.Avatar of Vlad Taltos and Loiosh by Bradakhan
-
2017-03-16, 02:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2012
- Location
- Lahndan
- Gender
Re: Retiering the classes (PF): Sorcerer, Oracle, Shaman, Arcanist, Psychic
I still find myself unsure as to how many 'Encounter-Enders' are considered enough to qualify for Tier 1 and will therefore continue to vote lvl 9 prepared casters with good lists as Tier 1, lvl 9 spontaneous casters with some nice spells as Tier 2, and lvl 9 casters with dubious lists as ???
So -
Arcanist - Tier 1
Sorcerer, Oracle, Psychic - Tier 2
Shaman - ???
-
2017-03-16, 02:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2008
Re: Retiering the classes (PF): Sorcerer, Oracle, Shaman, Arcanist, Psychic
Summarizing my arguments from the Sorcerer-specific thread,
Sorcerers start from a baseline of being half a spell-level behind. They then need to choose whether they're using their few high-level spells known on raw power or on replicating many lower-level utility effects. If they were ahead of the prepared casters on spell progression, this would be a fair trade. Unfortunately, they have at most one non-bloodline spell known of the highest level the prepared casters have, so this choice is a real one and puts them squarely into the revised definition of T2.
Sorcerer - Tier 2Last edited by Bucky; 2017-03-16 at 02:16 PM.
The gnomes once had many mines, but now they have gnome ore.
-
2017-03-16, 05:45 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2016
- Location
- Australia
- Gender
Re: Retiering the classes (PF): Sorcerer, Oracle, Shaman, Arcanist, Psychic
Arcanist: Tier 1, nice, simple and self explanatory. You cast of the wizard spell list with a better casting mechanic then a wizard. You can figure something out.
Shaman: Tier 1, Your a prepared caster of a nice list with hexes and other goodies.
Oracle: Tier 2. Oracles have less tricks for getting more spells known and cast of a worst list without the benefit of domains and "knowing" your entire list like a cleric. Some mysteries can push them to tier 1 though.
Psycic: Tier 2: Haven't really looked at them much but they seem like your typical spontaneous caster so they seem about tier 2.
Sorcerers: Arguably tier 1: Not really sure which. They can't swap out their spells on a daily basis and they lack spells known of their highest level and they are a spell level behind. Might change later if swayed.
-
2017-03-16, 07:20 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2016
Re: Retiering the classes (PF): Sorcerer, Oracle, Shaman, Arcanist, Psychic
It is looking like the consensus is actually leaning sorcerer towards t1, and I agree. The sorcerer got some HUGE boosts in PF. The bloodlines give the sorcerer some incredible versatility and a nice array of options. The fact that you can get up to 3 of them with some trocks is actually kinda cool. Summon Monster, arguably one of the best spells a sorcerer can pick, also got some amazing boosts as well. With the ability to get extra spells known via feats and favored class means much greater versatility.
So I feel both sorc and oracle should be t1. Same with arcanist.
Psychic and shaman spell lists simply does not impress. T2 all the way.Last edited by Calthropstu; 2017-03-16 at 07:20 PM.
-
2017-03-16, 07:40 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Gender
Re: Retiering the classes (PF): Sorcerer, Oracle, Shaman, Arcanist, Psychic
Eh, I wouldn't call 6-4 a "consensus" but we can all agree that they got a significant boost if nothing else
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
-
2017-03-16, 08:17 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2008
Re: Retiering the classes (PF): Sorcerer, Oracle, Shaman, Arcanist, Psychic
I think you're severely underestimating the Cleric list, and possibly the Druid list as well. Recall that both Clerics and Druids can get domains to match the Sorcerer's bloodlines.
Additionally, Clerics can use Paragon Surge for the Preferred Spell feat for the same on-the-fly flexibility Paragon Surge provides Sorcerers.
----
Here's another comparison from the Sorcerer thread.
Wizard: "We're planning to retrieve an artifact from the bottom of a lake next week. I'd better pick up a scroll each of Air Bubble and Touch of the Sea so I can prepare them for the dives."
Sorcerer: "We're planning to retrieve an artifact from the bottom of a lake next week. I'd better pick up four scrolls each of Air Bubble and Touch of the Sea and hope we can get the job done in one dive. Or I can buy Pages of Spell Knowledge at the cost of ten scrolls each."
Druid: "I didn't know we were planning to retrieve an artifact from the bottom of a lake this week, but I can turn into a shark. I can prepare castings of Air Bubble and Touch of the Sea for our next dive."Last edited by Bucky; 2017-03-16 at 08:28 PM.
The gnomes once had many mines, but now they have gnome ore.
-
2017-03-16, 08:56 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
- Location
- Atlanta, Georgia
- Gender
Re: Retiering the classes (PF): Sorcerer, Oracle, Shaman, Arcanist, Psychic
Or he can use shapechanging spells he wants to get anyway, like alter self or monstrous physique or form of the dragon or undead anatomy. Any of which is vastly better than being a shark. Or he can craft a greater hat of disguise, well worth the crafted cost for almost anyone. Lesser planar binding an air elemental might work. Paragon Surge certainly would.
-
2017-03-16, 09:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2008
Re: Retiering the classes (PF): Sorcerer, Oracle, Shaman, Arcanist, Psychic
...and Gnaeus recaps the other half of my conclusions.
The Wizard and Druid solve the problem of maneuvering and breathing underwater with two level 1 spells. They can't cover the whole party with them until about level 3, but the challenge doesn't necessarily require the whole party to be underwater at the same time.
Alter Self solves the underwater maneuvering part by transforming into an Undine. It does not grant the ability to breathe underwater. It covers only the sorcerer; other party members need their own solution. It's a second level spell that comes online at level 4.
Undead Anatomy is a good, if obscure, solution I didn't know about. It definitely solves the maneuvering part, and I think it also solves the breathing part. It won't work on other party members though. It costs one third level spell and it comes online at level 6 if you take it as your first 3rd level spell.
Monstrous Physique explicitly solves the breathing part; it's otherwise similar to Undead Anatomy. It costs one third level spell and it comes online at level 6 if you take it as your first 3rd level spell.
Paragon Surge can grant only one of the two spells. But it can grab Monstrous Physique to solve both problems at the cost of two third-level spells, or a third and a fourth level spell for your party members. It comes online at level 6.
Ride the Waves is your 4th level spell that solves both problems for other party members that you can grab with Paragon Surge. This version of the combo comes online at level 8 for you.
Finally, Lesser Planar Binding can probably grab something, or a team of somethings, that is capable of retrieving the artifact. It costs you a 3rd level spell, a 5th level spell and some other payment. It comes online at level 10.
In summary, while a sorcerer does indeed gain a pile of flexible ways to overcome this particular challenge, he only does so 3+ levels after it could be solved by preparing niche spells. Even then, it requires spending his only highest level spell known on flexibly emulating lower level effects or waiting an additional level.Last edited by Bucky; 2017-03-16 at 09:55 PM.
The gnomes once had many mines, but now they have gnome ore.
-
2017-03-16, 10:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2016
- Location
- Australia
- Gender
Re: Retiering the classes (PF): Sorcerer, Oracle, Shaman, Arcanist, Psychic
Anyway, what kind of sorcerer is gonna spend their only 5th level spell known on planar binding? Is that a thing people do? Its not particularly wise as you don't get another one until 11 barring page of spell knowledge which cost 25k, too expensive to consider. Crafting it would take too long as well.
Gnaeus, would you like to make sorcerer spell list that you think would be tier 1 that could solve a vast majority of problems? I'm on the fence between tier 1 and 2 and some solid proof would be nice.
Edit: I think alter self does give the ability to breathe underwater as a general rule for polynorph spells is that if they grant you a speed (Swim, earth glide)in that area they also let you breathe their. Gonna look for a quote.
Edit 2: here, under the polymorph subschool
"If the form grants a swim or burrow speed, you maintain the ability to breathe if you are swimming or burrowing"
-
2017-03-16, 11:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2008
Re: Retiering the classes (PF): Sorcerer, Oracle, Shaman, Arcanist, Psychic
The gnomes once had many mines, but now they have gnome ore.
-
2017-03-17, 02:11 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2012
- Location
- Lahndan
- Gender
Re: Retiering the classes (PF): Sorcerer, Oracle, Shaman, Arcanist, Psychic
I am somewhat puzzled by the idea that Sorcerer is a Tier 1 and Oracle isn't. If the Cleric spell list is strong enough to support Tier 1, and a Sorcerer-amount of the best spells is enough to be Tier 1, then how is a Sorcerer-sized portion of Cleric spells not strong enough for Tier 1? I know the Cleric list isn't as strong as the Wizard list, but surely if you're only relying on the gems its good enough?
-
2017-03-17, 02:15 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: Retiering the classes (PF): Sorcerer, Oracle, Shaman, Arcanist, Psychic
Sorc's got better class features.
Also, if prep-casting AND the best list (i.e. wizard) is high tier 1, and prep-casting OR the best list (i.e. cleric or sorcerer) is low tier 1, then it makes sense for NEITHER prep-casting NOR the best list (i.e. oracle) to be below that, i.e. on tier 2.Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.
"I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
Crystal Shard Studios - Freeware games designed by Kurald and others!
-
2017-03-17, 04:22 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2013
- Location
- turkey
- Gender
-
2017-03-17, 05:08 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2012
- Location
- Lahndan
- Gender
-
2017-03-17, 05:34 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2016
Re: Retiering the classes (PF): Sorcerer, Oracle, Shaman, Arcanist, Psychic
Actually, I agree that oracles should be t1. T2 is psychic, summoner, bard, magus and most other casters that only go to 6th lvl spells.Paizo gave enough power to most full 9 lvl casting classes that they pretty much all get to the top tier.
For what it's worth, I still feel this tier nonsense should stop. It's all a bunch of pure crap.
I disagree. I have gone over the oracle quite extensively and their abilities are actually BETTER than the sorcerer's. They also get their mystery spells a level earlier, which is really cool.
But their spell list is weaker.
Example: Fire Oracle vs fire sorcerer:
Sorcerer gets a free uncapped super fireball once per day at 9th level. They also get a scaling fire resistance, a ray they can shoot, they can swap any elemental spell to fire, get +30 movement at 15th and at 20th they get fire immunity and immunity to criticals and sneak attack.
Oracles get to choose from a wider array of abilities, some of which are so good many use the extra revelation feat to get more of them.
They can choose to get a 1hr/lvl version of elemental body, scales with lvl, a firey explosion more devastating than any fire spell in existence, fire resistance (though admittedly not as good as the sorcerers) and a slew of other great abilities. Oracle is a CLEAR winner here.Last edited by Calthropstu; 2017-03-17 at 05:48 AM.
-
2017-03-17, 07:35 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
- Location
- Atlanta, Georgia
- Gender
Re: Retiering the classes (PF): Sorcerer, Oracle, Shaman, Arcanist, Psychic
1. As discussed, alter self works fine.
2. I thought Mr. Druid was wildshaping into a shark. How's he doing that at 1, or at 3. A spellcasting shark is level 5 minimum. And I'd still rather have alter self in case I wanted a wand.
3. At 1 minute/level, it's not much of an underwater adventure at level 1. The fighter can swim and hold his breath longer than that.
4 ok. You get there first. So, when we all make it underwater and we hit the unexpected dispel magic trap, the sorcerer casts another alter self, and the wizard drowns 14 minutes before he can prep that spell in his empty slot. Should have made that greater hat of disguise I was suggesting
-
2017-03-17, 07:45 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
- Location
- Atlanta, Georgia
- Gender
Re: Retiering the classes (PF): Sorcerer, Oracle, Shaman, Arcanist, Psychic
I don't mind, but it has to include bloodlines and feats. Because you build your list around your bloodline freebies and powers and you expand spells with feats. If that's fair, and no one is going to leap down my throat about that being a specific sorcerer, not reflective of all sorcerers, that's fine.
-
2017-03-17, 07:52 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2016
- Location
- Australia
- Gender
Re: Retiering the classes (PF): Sorcerer, Oracle, Shaman, Arcanist, Psychic
-
2017-03-17, 08:08 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
- Location
- Atlanta, Georgia
- Gender
Re: Retiering the classes (PF): Sorcerer, Oracle, Shaman, Arcanist, Psychic
-
2017-03-17, 08:22 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
Re: Retiering the classes (PF): Sorcerer, Oracle, Shaman, Arcanist, Psychic
Avatar of Vlad Taltos and Loiosh by Bradakhan
-
2017-03-17, 10:28 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
- Location
- Atlanta, Georgia
- Gender
Re: Retiering the classes (PF): Sorcerer, Oracle, Shaman, Arcanist, Psychic
Spoiler: L5 SorcererL5 Arcane Bloodline Sorcerer:
Feats: Spell Focus: Conjuration, Augment Summoning, Summon Good Monster,
L1: Identify (Bloodline), Summon Monster 1, Enlarge Person, Dazzling Blade, Snowball, Stumble Gap, Mage Armor
L2: Invisibility (Bloodline), Summon Monster II, Alter Self
(Spells embedded in Summon Monster:
Grig: Entangle, Pyrotechnics
Faun: Hideous Laughter, Sleep
Pseudodragon: not spells, but Blindsense 60 and telepathy)
(So, can use save or sucks against all 3 saves, depending on need. Nice AOE control in entangle and pyrotechnics. Alter self provides aquatic movement, dark or low light vision or scent, natural attacks in the unlikely event that you want one. And a Str or Dex buff. You get a familiar from Arcane Bond, which you can hit with enlarge or alter self if you need. An Invisible Pseudodragon is a fantastic scout).
Spoiler: L10 sorcererL10 Arcane Bloodline Sorcerer:
Feats: Spell Focus: Conjuration, Augment Summoning, Summon Good Monster, Dazing Spell, Craft Wondrous
L1: Identify (Bloodline), Shield, Enlarge Person, Dazzling Blade, Snowball, Mount, Mage Armor, Magic Missile
L2: Invisibility (Bloodline), Summon Monster II, Scorching Ray, Resist Energy, Create Pit, Command undead, Burning Gaze, Mirror Image
L3: Dispel Magic (Bloodline), Summon Monster III, Haste, Slow, Shrink Item, Paragon Surge
L4: Dimension Door (Bloodline), Summon Monster IV, Monstrous Physique II, Emergency Force Sphere, Greater Invisibility, scrying (Dazing Magic Missile, Dazing Snowball) (Gets an extra spell from arcane bloodline)
L5: Summon monster V (Dazing Scorching Ray, Dazing Burning Gaze)
(Spells embedded in Summon Monster:
Grig: Entangle, Pyrotechnics
Faun: Hideous Laughter, Sleep
Pseudodragon: not spells, but Blindsense 60 and telepathy
Lantern Archon: Aid, Detect Evil (and Aura of Menace)
Lyrakien: Ventriloquism, Cure Light Wounds, Lesser Confusion, Silent Image
Silvanshee: Dancing Lights, know direction, Speak with Animals (lay on hands)
Dretch: Cause Fear, Stinking Cloud
Faerie Dragon: Grease, Silent Image, Greater Invisibility (Self only), (telepathy 100)
Hound Archon: Aid, Message, Magic Circle against Evil, Beast Shape (Self only)
Pixie: Dispel Magic, Detect Thoughts, Entangle, Permanent Image, shield, Detect (alignment), Constant Invisible
Bralani Azata: Blur, Charm Person, Gust of Wind, Mirror Image, Wind Wall, Lightning Bolt, Cure Serious Wounds
Djinni: Gaseous Form, Create Wine, Persistent Image, Wind Walk
Vulpinal: Cure Disease, Major Image, Flame Arrow, Holy Smite, Dispel Evil, Charm Monster, (Bardic Knowledge, Lay on Hands)
Babau: Darkness, Dispel Magic,
Mephits: Acid Arrow, Stinking Cloud, Blur, Glitterdust, pyrotechnics, shocking grasp, lightning bolt, chill metal, heat metal, soften earth and stone, wind wall)
(So, Disabling attacks on all 3 saves, Travel via Wind Walk, Gaseous Form and D door, Curing abilities likely significantly exceed the druid, including dispel evil, a fantastic cleric spell that wipes out enchantment effects from evil creatures without a check. Buffs include haste, aid, magic circle v. evil, blur, greater invisibility, enlarge person, mage armor, mirror image and others. Vouivre Form gives 10 minute Flight, swim speed/water breathing, cold/fire/sonic resist, a claw/claw/wing/wing/bite/grab attack routine with reach in a form that can speak and hold wands (we will need to retrain in a few levels to add the breath weapon). Emergency Force Sphere is an immediate action NO that is handy to have in a spammable form. Significant melee minion abilities. Significant Scouting abilities. Significant Blasting abilities. Scrying + D Door= scry, kill, DDoor out. Abilities a wizard can't easily duplicate at this level (aside from spamming useful spell 4 times) include Dispel Evil, Wind Walk and Persistent Image. At level 11 we pick up Lesser Planar Binding, Magic Circle V Evil (as a spell known, not from a summon), and Overland Flight). Paragon surge fills niche holes.
That looks pretty competitive to a wizard to me. I think a PF druid would have a hard time beating it at this level.